Van Hollen Grills Blinken: Has Netanyahu Followed ‘International Norms’ In Humanitarian Aid To Gaza?

4 months ago

On Tuesday, Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) questioned Secretary of State Antony Blinken on assistance to Israel during a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing.

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Transcript

00:00 Senator Van Hollen.

00:05 Thank you, Senator Schatz, and good to see you again, Mr. Secretary.

00:08 I do want to follow up here where we left off earlier in this morning's Senate Foreign

00:13 Relations Committee hearing, and I did hear your exchange with Senator Murray, where you

00:18 indicated that in the middle of a conflict it would be difficult to reach any final conclusions

00:25 about whether or not U.S. weapons were used in violation of international humanitarian

00:30 law.

00:31 I would just point out that there are many other conflicts where we are able to quickly

00:35 make and do issue those kind of judgments.

00:39 But what I don't think is complicated at all is if you look at the period of time from

00:44 October 7th, the terrible Hamas October 7th attacks, to the present, I don't think it's

00:51 complicated to conclude that the Netanyahu government has complied with international

00:58 norms with respect to the delivery of humanitarian assistance along that continuum of time.

01:04 Is it your testimony today that the Netanyahu government has complied with international

01:09 norms when it comes to delivering humanitarian assistance to desperate people in Gaza since

01:15 October 7th until today?

01:17 I think there's been a huge gap between stated intent and actual results, and that's a gap

01:21 that we've been trying to close every single day.

01:25 And I think that's what we've been seeing for many months.

01:27 Mr. Secretary, I get that.

01:30 Obviously, my question was whether or not there's been a violation of international

01:35 norms, which I think to any person with eyes to see and ears to hear, there have been.

01:44 And as you know, there are many people in the U.S.

01:46 Government who have reached similar conclusions, and actually it's been well reported on.

01:51 So I think that does hurt our credibility when we're not able to make that clear call.

01:57 Let me move on to the issue where we were in agreement, I think, this morning, which

02:02 is that it's in our national security interest to have a durable end to the conflict in Gaza

02:08 and to the larger Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and that we can only achieve security and

02:15 self-determination and dignity and justice for Israelis and Palestinians alike by securing

02:21 a normalization of relations with Israel and Saudi Arabia and other states, as well as

02:28 a clear plan – I think you said time-bound plan – to establish a Palestinian state.

02:33 Am I paraphrasing that fairly?

02:35 That's correct.

02:37 And you agree that it's not possible to achieve a secure and just end to the Israeli-Palestinian

02:43 conflict by jumping over the equities of the Palestinian people; is that right?

02:48 Absolutely not.

02:49 That's impossible.

02:50 It would be self-defeating.

02:52 I want to emphasize that point because you know, Mr. Secretary, you've been around

02:57 Washington for a long time, because it has been fashionable in some foreign policy circles

03:04 to believe that you could do that, that you could somehow achieve peace and stability

03:10 and security by jumping over the Palestinian issue.

03:14 So – and I want to emphasize this because you have said that the Saudis are insistent

03:20 on a clear path to a Palestinian state and time-bound path, but it's also in our national

03:29 security interest.

03:30 So are we also insistent on that?

03:32 Yes.

03:33 We are.

03:34 And again, it's interesting and I think instructive to note that perhaps the two most

03:40 vicious and vociferous enemies of a two-state solution are Hamas and Iran.

03:45 That should tell you something, and it also should tell you what a rebuke to both Hamas

03:49 and Iran it would be if we could finally get on this pathway in a credible and time-bound

03:56 way.

03:57 And I think certainly everything we've heard from the Saudis in the context of having these

04:01 normalization discussions makes it clear that they feel the same way.

04:04 Well, I'm glad you raised that, because there is one other party, right, in addition

04:09 to the two that you mentioned, that has been dead set against a Palestinian state and a

04:16 two-state solution.

04:17 In December of 2022, just the day before the new Netanyahu government was sworn in, Netanyahu

04:25 issued a list of priorities for this new, very extreme government.

04:29 And I'm quoting one of his guiding principles was the Jewish people have an exclusive and

04:37 inalienable right to all parts of the land of Israel, meaning including all the West

04:43 Bank.

04:45 So I want to read to you something else that Prime Minister – now Prime Minister Netanyahu

04:50 said back in 2019 at a Likud meeting, and this has been well reported, and I quote,

04:56 "Anyone who wants to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening

05:02 Hamas.

05:04 This is part of our strategy to divide the Palestinians between those in Gaza and those

05:11 in Judea and Samaria," end quote.

05:14 So Mr. Secretary, you mentioned some of the other opponents of a two-state solution, and

05:20 it's absolutely true that Hamas believes in one state, right?

05:25 Their despicable endgame is one state where they wipe out the State of Israel, right?

05:32 And so can you be really clear as to why Prime Minister Netanyahu is simply misrepresenting

05:40 the case when he says that a Palestinian state and a two-state solution would be, quote,

05:45 "a reward for Hamas"?

05:46 Isn't it exactly the opposite?

05:47 I believe it's exactly the opposite.

05:49 Now, of course, a Palestinian state has to come with the necessary security guarantees

05:54 for Israel.

05:56 No one wants to see a state emerge that would become a threat to Israel, and I think it's

06:02 – there are effective ways to make sure that that doesn't happen.

06:07 But yes, to your point, again, I think the biggest rebuke to Hamas and to Iran would

06:13 be the realization of a Palestinian state alongside a Jewish and democratic Israel.

06:18 And I agree with you 100 percent, Mr. Secretary.

06:21 I just want us to be clear-eyed about all the forces that are raided against us.

06:25 Part of the effort to undermine the PA or the two-state solution has been undermining

06:31 the Palestinian Authority.

06:34 As you know, Finance Minister Smotrich has been withholding funds for the PA, which is

06:39 weakening the PA and creating an even more unstable security situation on the West Bank.

06:47 Today, Ben Gavir talked about reoccupying Gaza.

06:51 He said he'd like to live in Gaza.

06:53 So this is today reported.

06:56 So my question, Mr. Secretary, is what are we willing to do when people like Finance

07:02 Minister Smotrich hold up funds for the PA, weakening security?

07:09 And at what point do we say that our continued support is contingent on more cooperation?

07:16 I think if you ask the Israeli security forces, whether it's the intelligence forces, Shin

07:21 Bet, whether it's the IDF, they will tell you that the PA plays an absolutely critical,

07:27 essential role in trying to preserve security and stability on the West Bank.

07:32 They do it in an incredibly difficult environment precisely because they're constantly being

07:38 starved for funds.

07:40 They're doing work that's actually vital to Israel's security.

07:43 And so it's manifestly against the interests of Israel and it's against our own interests

07:50 to see the PA undermined in the fashion that some are attempting to undermine it.

07:56 Second, in terms of governance going forward, it's imperative that not only the conflict

08:04 in Gaza end as soon as possible, but that Israel come forward with a clear plan for

08:10 how Gaza is going to be governed, secured, redeveloped, because the trajectory we're

08:17 on right now in the absence of such a plan is either Israel stays and occupies Gaza,

08:22 which is unacceptable to us and should be unacceptable to them because they'll be inheriting

08:27 an insurgency that will bleed them for a long time, or if they're not going to do it, then

08:33 Hamas will come back – and we've seen already in areas that have been cleared, in

08:37 quotation marks, by Israel, the return in some cases of Hamas.

08:41 Or you'll simply have anarchy, lawlessness, which we see in most parts of Gaza right now.

08:46 And that eventually will be filled almost certainly by something bad, even worse than

08:51 the lawlessness.

08:52 So there's an imperative – an absolute imperative for that.

08:55 We believe strongly that, of course, Palestinians must be governing themselves, whether it's

09:00 in Gaza, whether it's the West Bank, and whether it's ultimately, of course, in a

09:03 Palestinian state.

09:04 And right now, for all of its deficiencies and challenges, the Palestinian Authority

09:10 is the best vehicle for that.

09:13 They have a new prime minister.

09:14 They have a new government.

09:16 They have a reform plan which needs to be implemented.

09:18 In our own engagements with the prime minister, he struck us as someone who is serious and

09:23 focused on actually trying to reform the PA so it's responsive to the needs of people

09:28 and that it roots out corruption.

09:30 But of course, if it has no resources to work with, it's going to be impossible to do

09:34 that job.

09:35 So we are at this constantly, including trying to make sure that the revenues that the PA

09:39 is entitled to actually get to the PA.

09:44 Thank you.

09:45 And I do think this is sort of the last gasp the coming year for a two-state solution,

09:49 and it's going to require strong U.S. leadership.

09:52 Thank you.

Van Hollen Grills Blinken: Has Netanyahu Followed ‘International Norms’ In Humanitarian Aid To Gaza?

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