‘Why Is This Being Just Ignored By the Rest Of The World?’: Risch Asks Witness About Crisis In Sudan

4 months ago

During a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Wednesday, Sen. Jim Risch (R-ID) questioned the U.S. Special Envoy for Sudan Tom Perriello about the ongoing conflict in Sudan.

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Transcript

00:00 Senator Risch.

00:01 Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:04 You conceded here in your testimony that and congratulated this committee for being the

00:09 only, if possibly, entity that seems to be really concerned about this and focused on

00:15 it.

00:16 Why do you think this is?

00:17 Why is this being just ignored by the rest of the world?

00:21 Senator, it's a great question without a great answer.

00:26 Certainly, we have trouble getting coverage of Africa for issues related to a false sense

00:31 of hopelessness in an area that I think has great hope.

00:34 While certainly the situation in Gaza has gotten a lot of attention in the media, this

00:40 war had been going on for six months before that began, and you still were not seeing

00:44 coverage, not just in the Western press, but in the African press and the Arab world press.

00:49 We are certainly doing everything we can to raise the stakes of that.

00:52 I think it has made it easier for bad actors inside and outside to get away with the atrocities

00:58 and the support for those atrocities when the world seems not to be watching.

01:02 Sudanese, of course, are, and they are with great courage every day documenting the abuses

01:07 and expanding efforts to get the attention of the world.

01:11 We are certainly trying to ensure that we can amplify those voices wherever we can.

01:16 As someone who was in Darfur 20 years ago when the world paid great attention to it,

01:21 the Bush administration was very engaged.

01:23 We had celebrities, the media, young people like myself then, not young anymore, that

01:29 were sneaking across borders to try to document the abuses that were going on.

01:33 We don't have that same engagement today, and I think that's a tragedy, but I know that

01:37 you and your staff and others have certainly done everything they can to try to shine more

01:41 of a light on this, and I wish I had a better answer.

01:44 And obviously, the problem can't get any help if the world doesn't know about what's going

01:50 on or is ignoring what's going on.

01:53 I think your description is good about how it's changed.

02:00 You know, like you said, there were celebrities, there were all kinds of people who were involved

02:04 in this before, and why have they just lost attention on this?

02:09 Because it is so bad?

02:10 Because there just aren't obvious answers here?

02:13 Because things are too tough to do?

02:15 I mean, it's hard to swallow, it really is, with something as bad as this is going on

02:21 on the planet, and yet you very seldom, if ever, read stories about this.

02:30 I completely agree, and this is why we encouraged Senator Booker to come to the camps, encouraged

02:36 all of you to do what you can to draw attention.

02:40 And I think, you know, in some ways the tragedy, if you go back five years ago, was the lack

02:45 of attention on the moment of hope, when the Sudanese people, led by women and youth, had

02:49 risen up to push Bashir out of power, they had begun a constitutional transition that

02:53 would give them control over their own future and destiny.

02:58 Like all countries, including our own, you don't get it right the first time, there are

03:01 some skips along the way, and I think at that point, if we had all done a better job of

03:07 telling the story of that success, I think people would be looking now at the need simply

03:12 to get back to the trajectory the Sudanese people had already laid out.

03:16 And that's our baseline in the negotiations.

03:17 We shouldn't be renegotiating what the Sudanese people have already determined out of great

03:22 courage, which is a democratic future that begins with a civilian transition, and starts

03:28 to build those aspects of governance.

03:31 We have incredible, inspiring stories today.

03:34 While we do see the youth coming across starving, we also see youth who have come up with completely

03:41 amazing cash apps and built local kitchens inside to provide food and medicine in areas

03:47 that are hard hit.

03:48 We have stories of inspiration and of courage, and I think it is a dark mark on all of us,

03:56 and certainly on the media and on other actors, that we have not had the attention that we

04:00 deserve on this conflict, and I think that's made it harder, but we are starting to see

04:05 the heat turned up on those who are committing the atrocities and supporting it.

04:09 One of the things that strikes me about all of this is, when you look at the map of the

04:16 seven or more different military organizations that have the country divided up, I mean,

04:26 this is tough.

04:27 And how you get any kind of unanimity between groups that are in power in particular places

04:35 to give up that power seems to me to be a real heavy lift.

04:40 Your thoughts?

04:41 First of all, Sudan is an incredible country.

04:44 It's a country of incredible diversity.

04:46 It's 50 million people, so we have a country that is of enormous size.

04:51 It's of great strategic importance in terms of its mouth to the Sahel and port access,

04:57 and so there are many sub-narratives to get into.

04:59 But I think the most important thing, and something we've really tried to emphasize

05:02 in the last few months since I began, is that on the issues related to the peace process,

05:07 the Sudanese people are incredibly united, and we need to reinforce and amplify that

05:12 unity.

05:13 Now, on political questions, just like in our own country, you don't expect unity.

05:17 That's an area where you can have a fight of ideas.

05:20 But on the core questions for the talks, which is the need to end the war, ensure full access,

05:25 not wanting the war to be a backdoor to power for former corrupt regime officials or Islamist

05:31 extremists, they want a return to that civilian authority, and they do want a unified professional

05:35 army under that civilian authority going forward.

05:38 And these are all core elements that have been discussed before in Sudan and remain,

05:42 I think, consensus positions, at least across the people.

05:46 On the questions of, long-standing questions of, you know, the center versus the peripheries

05:52 of the identity, some of Sudanese political identity, these are very important questions

05:57 that should play out in the years ahead.

05:59 But they should play out in the context of that civilian process, not in the context

06:03 of the negotiations.

06:05 And so on the core questions for ending the war, I think the Sudanese people are deeply

06:09 united, and we need to focus on that to end the war, and then hand them, work with them

06:14 on a process where they can continue over many years to discuss and debate those other

06:19 questions.

06:20 Your description is hopeful, but again, I come back to what bothers me is you talk about

06:25 the Sudanese people wanting what you've described as an ideal situation.

06:31 My problem is when you've got organizations like this, the problem usually lies with the

06:36 leadership that are in power in various parts of the country, and them not wanting to give

06:42 up that power.

06:45 How would you address that?

06:47 How would you describe that as far as the fragmentation of the various groups in the

06:53 country?

06:58 I feel like the Sudanese people have been clear with all of us that they do not feel

07:01 like the future of Sudan should be decided by the heads of two fighting forces that have

07:06 horrifically abused the Sudanese people.

07:10 We are open to a variety of paths forward, but this is not something where the Sudanese

07:16 people are looking for power sharing between two negative actors.

07:20 Now we do see a future for the SAF, the army, it is an official institution of the state,

07:25 has a proud history as well as some not so proud moments.

07:29 That is not the same as what we see as an RSF or John Dewey based organization.

07:34 So there is-

07:35 What about the rapid support forces?

07:38 Would you feel the same way about them?

07:40 We do not.

07:41 We do not in terms of their history or their future.

07:43 We believe that along with the other signatories to earlier peace deals, there needs to be

07:48 a full integration into one integrated professional army and that integrated professional army

07:54 needs to be accountable to a civilian and eventually elected government.

07:57 That is going to be a heavy lift given the size and the amount of ground that they control

08:02 right now to fold them into something that they do not really want.

08:07 My time is up.

‘Why Is This Being Just Ignored By the Rest Of The World?’: Risch Asks Witness About Crisis In Sudan

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