00:00 We've seen an explosion in calls to our services over the last few years, but particularly
00:07 in the last, say, 12 months or so for people who are calling about scam losses.
00:12 And it's becoming a massive issue.
00:15 The ACCC reported that last year there were over $3.1 billion lost to scams across Australia.
00:22 And signs are that that figure is going to, at the very least, remain steady or possibly
00:26 increase across 2023 as well.
00:29 So if you can't get the money back from the scammers, which is realistically unlikely,
00:33 of course, what are your chances of getting your bank to refund it?
00:38 So it can depend on the situation, I guess, is probably the short answer.
00:42 Look, if the transactions are made from your account and you have no knowledge of them
00:46 whatsoever, your chances are actually pretty good.
00:49 So in those circumstances, the transactions are generally considered unauthorised at law,
00:54 which makes sense.
00:56 And in most cases, the bank is actually liable for these transactions and required to reimburse
01:01 you.
01:02 So that can apply if it turns out you're the victim of, say, like credit card skimming
01:05 or a phishing scam, where scammers use a fake website to get your card details.
01:10 Unfortunately, right now, the situation's not so good when it's a scam involving, I
01:15 guess, what is called an authorised scam.
01:17 So that's when the victim has actually pressed send on the actual transaction.
01:25 Can you explain that a little bit more?
01:27 What sort of circumstances might that happen?
01:30 So a lot of the cases that we see involve situations like, say, investment scams or
01:34 romance scams, where someone has been in touch with a scammer, the scammer's convinced them
01:41 to send money to another bank account.
01:43 In a lot of cases, people might think that they're sending it to a bank account that
01:46 they might have control of or that they're providing it to a person who is acting fraudulently.
01:53 And so when you've pressed send, it can be a lot more difficult to get your money back
01:57 and the law is a lot less forgiving.
02:00 We think that this is actually a bit of an artificial distinction in reality, because
02:04 in both cases, you're a victim of fraud.
02:06 So it's not really something that we think it's fair for consumers to not get their money
02:11 back in those circumstances.
02:12 Well, that's the question, I guess, isn't it, Tom?
02:14 Where does the responsibility lie in stopping fraud?
02:16 Is it up to the banks to put in enough layers of security to prevent scammers from scamming?
02:22 Or is it a case of buy beware for consumers?
02:25 Yeah, so this is a question that government's actually consulting on right now through the
02:29 Treasury Department.
02:31 And we think that there's a lot more that banks and other industries can do to make
02:34 their platforms safer and better protect consumers from scammers.
02:38 It seems to us as though it's almost been treated a little bit as inevitable, that scammers
02:43 will find ways to contact us, reach us, and then also find ways to outsmart bank systems.
02:51 We doubt this would be the case if it was the bank or the telco's money that they were
02:56 going to be liable for the losses.
02:58 And in a lot of cases, it seems like when there are security advances that are being
03:04 proposed, it's a question of investment and prioritisation.
03:08 So we're calling on the government to change the laws in this space so that customers no
03:12 longer wear the financial burden for scam losses, and industries treat this as more
03:16 of a priority.
03:17 Very quickly, Tom, if you're a customer who has been scammed, the bank says it won't give
03:21 you the money back.
03:23 Is there anything else you can do?
03:25 So you can go through, all banks have to have a formal internal dispute resolution process
03:31 where they will review the outcome.
03:33 And then if you're not satisfied with that, you can go to the Australian Financial Complaints
03:37 Authority or the banking ombudsman that you mentioned before.
03:41 As you said, AFCA, the acronym has seen a bit of an explosion in cases and it can take
03:48 a bit of time, but they will always apply the law and work out whether the bank has
03:51 complied with it.
03:52 And it's a free service, so there's nothing to lose by having a crack and going through
03:56 that process.
03:57 [BLANK_AUDIO]
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