State of the Union: War fatigue, luggage sizes and anti-SLAPP deal
There was talk of Ukraine war fatigue this week in Brussels, as NATO's foreign affairs minister met to discuss the nearly two-year-long conflict.
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00:00 Hello and welcome to State of the Union. I'm Stefan Grobe in Brussels.
00:04 Do you know what fatigue means? Here's what the Merriam-Webster Dictionary says.
00:10 A state of attitude of indifference or apathy brought on by overexposure as to a repeated
00:16 series of similar events or appeals.
00:19 Well, some people are beginning to feel that way when they think about the war in Ukraine.
00:25 In other words, war fatigue.
00:28 Not something you'd hear in public, maybe behind closed doors at best.
00:34 Then the Secretary General of NATO made some public remarks that made many attentive observers
00:40 sit up and take notice.
00:43 Military achievements can partly be measured in square meters, but also on the losses you
00:48 are able to inflict on your adversary. Even though the front line has not moved, the Ukrainians
00:55 have been able to inflict heavy losses on the Russian invaders, both measured in personnel
01:04 and casualties, but also in taking out fighting capabilities.
01:09 These remain important military gains, even though over the last months we haven't seen
01:14 any significant territorial gains.
01:17 A static front line and no significant gains.
01:22 Stoltenberg added that Ukraine has reconquered about 50 percent of its territory that the
01:27 Russians had occupied earlier in the war.
01:30 So he seems to be suggesting that it's time to think about what comes next, like ending
01:36 the war.
01:38 Could this be war fatigue?
01:40 Absolutely no, official Brussels hurried to say.
01:44 The room is full of elephants.
01:47 We have a room crowded with big issues and big questions.
01:54 And certainly the prospect of war in Ukraine is one of the most important issues in which
02:01 we are dealing.
02:03 But to be frank, I don't see any sign of members having what you call fatigue.
02:13 Burrell was not alone in this assessment, but the thought is out there now and being
02:18 talked about.
02:19 One elephant in the room, as Burrell would say.
02:23 How do the Ukrainians see it?
02:26 Joining me now is Oleksandra Matvitschuk, a Ukrainian human rights lawyer and a co-recipient
02:31 of the 2022 Nobel Peace Prize.
02:34 Welcome to the program.
02:35 Thank you for the invitation.
02:38 So there's a lot of speculation these days about various ways to end the war.
02:44 Should Ukraine negotiate a deal with Putin anytime soon?
02:49 The problem is that Putin don't need peace.
02:52 He want to restore Russian empire.
02:54 There is no price which Putin can afford himself to pay to achieve this goal.
03:00 This means that we have to help Ukraine win.
03:05 Democracy must win the wars because only spread of freedom make our world safer.
03:10 When would you say conditions are met for a negotiated peace solution?
03:17 We have to clearly define what peace doesn't mean because peace is not occupation.
03:24 Russia have to release territories which Russia occupied.
03:29 I am a human rights lawyer and I know that people on these territories are subject to
03:34 death, ill-treatment, torture, sexual violence, and we have no moral rights to leave these
03:40 people alone under Russian occupation.
03:43 I want to come back to that point in a second.
03:48 Another widely debated topic is continuing Western support for Ukraine.
03:53 Are you worried that some sort of war fatigue is kicking in?
03:59 It's difficult to be in a war for a long time.
04:03 That is why we have to rethink our goal.
04:06 What do I mean?
04:07 When large-scale invasion started, the civilized world told, "Let's help Ukraine not to fail."
04:13 And Ukraine obtained the first weapons to be able to defend ourselves.
04:17 The first serious assumptions against Russia were introduced into force.
04:21 But this is a time to change this narrative to another one.
04:24 Let's help Ukraine to win.
04:27 There is a huge difference between "Let's help Ukraine not to fail" and "Let's help
04:32 Ukraine to win."
04:34 And finally, as a human rights lawyer, how confident are you that potential war crimes
04:40 will be properly addressed going forward?
04:45 I have no doubt that Putin, if he will be alive, he will find himself in the hole.
04:52 Because it's time to break the circle of impunity that Russia enjoyed for decades.
04:58 Russia committed horrible war crimes in Chechnya, in Moldova, in Georgia, in Mali, in Syria,
05:04 in Libya, in other countries of the world.
05:07 They have never been punished.
05:09 So we have to demonstrate justice, not just for Ukrainians, but in order to prevent a
05:15 next Russian attack to a next nation.
05:18 All right, Aleksandra Matvichuk, human rights lawyer and a co-recipient of the 2022 Nobel
05:24 Peace Prize, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
05:29 Thank you.
05:32 With the war in Ukraine heading into its second winter, much of the rest of Europe is focusing
05:37 on cheery traditions and seasonal business.
05:41 Christmas is less than four weeks away, believe it or not.
05:44 It's the busiest time of the year for chocolate makers like this one in Austria.
05:58 In its largest factories in Vienna, up to 100,000 chocolate centers are produced in
06:04 the run-up of Christmas.
06:10 But that's not all.
06:12 Around 700 gingerbread hearts and stars per day are made during the festive season.
06:20 The basic dough is made first and then left to rest, then processed further, then worked
06:30 again, rolled out and cut by hand, then put in the oven, then decorated.
06:41 This is to be enjoyed as much as possible, until pastry fatigue kicks in.
06:48 That's it for this edition.
06:49 I'm Stefan Grobe, thank you for watching.
06:52 Have an excellent week.
06:53 Thank you.