The Patriots Next Coach & GM candidates w/ Jeff Howe | Pats Interference - video Dailymotion

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The Athletic's NFL insider Jeff Howe joins Andrew to answer every listener question in a mega mailbag episode. Together, they tackle the top candidates to become the Patriots' next coach and GM, potential Bill Belichick trades, whether Jerod Mayo is ready to take over and which players the team should prioritize this offseason.  You can also listen and Subscribe to Pats Interference on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and at CLNSMedia.com every Tuesday!  This episode of the Pats Interference Podcast is brought to you by Fanduel Sportsbook, the exclusive wagering parter of the CLNS Media NetworkRight now, NEW customers get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS with any winning FIVE DOLLAR MONEYLINE BET! So, visit https://FanDuel.com/BOSTON and kick off the NFL season. FanDuel, Official Partner of the NFL. 21+ and present in MA. Hope is here. First online real money wager only. $5 pregame moneyline wager required. First onlinereal money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets that expire 7 days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. GamblingHelpLineMa.org or call (800)-327-5050 for 24/7 support. Play it smart from the start! GameSenseMA.com or call 1-800-GAM-1234.  ODDS-R! Ever wished you could navigate the betting field with the confidence of a pro? Enter OddsR. They're not a sportsbook, but they're the sports betting advisor you've always needed. It's like having a playbook for smarter bets right in your pocket. I've been absolutely loving the experience, and I think you will too. Especially since Pats Interference listeners get a 30-day free trial! Elevate your game day and join the smart betting revolution! Go get it at https://oddsr.com/pats !  Factor Meals! Head to https://FactorMeals.com/CALLAHAN50 and use CODE CALLAHAN50 to get 50% off. That’s code CALLAHAN50 at https://FactorMeals.com/CALLAHAN5 to get 50% off! #patriotspresspass #clns #patriots

Transcript

00:00:00 I wrote a story earlier in the season.

00:00:02 I think Colorado was still unbeaten at this point.

00:00:04 So kind of captured that momentum,

00:00:07 but just about like what Deion Sanders potential

00:00:10 as an NFL head coach and candidate would be.

00:00:12 And basically I'm pretty sure everybody I spoke to,

00:00:15 if not the vast majority said,

00:00:17 you have to at least bring him in for an interview.

00:00:19 And maybe he says, hey, you know what?

00:00:21 Thanks, but no thanks.

00:00:22 I genuinely want to stay at Colorado,

00:00:24 see this thing through.

00:00:26 Okay, give him the opportunity to turn you down.

00:00:28 Maybe you bring him in and you realize

00:00:30 you're a perfect college head coach.

00:00:32 You're not for my NFL organization,

00:00:34 but I truly believe you're doing a disservice

00:00:36 to your organization if you don't at least

00:00:38 call Deion Sanders and try to bring him in for an interview.

00:00:41 - Oh, I love this so much.

00:00:43 The content would be just out of this world.

00:00:45 - Patsy DeFerrence is brought to you by FanDuel,

00:00:48 the exclusive wedgering partner of the CLNS Media Network.

00:00:52 - We have Jeff Howe back from the athletic

00:00:54 National NFL Insider from the athletic.

00:00:57 He is tackling, I think we have 14 mailbag questions,

00:01:00 which I know I told you was going to be the theme today.

00:01:04 Did you expect 14?

00:01:05 - I actually predicted 14 on the number.

00:01:10 - Okay, good, good.

00:01:11 - I'm ready.

00:01:12 - I need to take you to the casino.

00:01:14 'Cause the promise was, look, folks,

00:01:15 we want to get to every single question,

00:01:17 know what's on your mind.

00:01:18 And there are going to be a lot of overlap here

00:01:19 talking about Belichick and the future of the team

00:01:21 and the next head coach and the GM.

00:01:23 And so I figured that, you know,

00:01:25 when I invited you to come on,

00:01:26 I said, here's what we're going to do.

00:01:27 But if you're hot on something like, you know,

00:01:30 let's do that first.

00:01:32 And I'm expecting you to have something along those lines,

00:01:35 Bill or the GM or whatever's going on, two and eight.

00:01:37 There's a lot of problems to address,

00:01:39 but the problem you chose was,

00:01:41 I pulled my back and I'm getting old.

00:01:43 So do you want to talk about that?

00:01:46 Are you okay?

00:01:46 Do we have any update here?

00:01:48 - It's finally starting to get better.

00:01:50 I mean, it's turning 40 sucks, man.

00:01:53 Like every, I'm not new to like the pulled back muscle

00:01:58 situation here.

00:01:59 I've probably done it like four or five other times

00:02:01 in the past, but I feel like I earned those previous ones.

00:02:06 Like I could trace it to one particular event,

00:02:09 like picking up a dumbbell and not having like

00:02:12 the right form in my head or like trying to move a box

00:02:15 that was way too big or like trying to push a couch

00:02:18 across the room and it's like just doing dumb stuff.

00:02:21 This was just, all I can say is I turned 40

00:02:24 and my back just decided it wasn't going to work

00:02:27 for five days.

00:02:28 So it's awesome.

00:02:29 It's great.

00:02:30 - Masterful job by you slipping in the gym reference there,

00:02:33 but it really wouldn't be a podcast if we didn't have

00:02:35 some sort of mention of weightlifting here.

00:02:38 So yeah, let's get to the mailbag questions.

00:02:39 One twist that I did not tell you about

00:02:41 in this list of 14 questions, Jeff,

00:02:43 there is a fake question, one that I wrote myself.

00:02:46 And here's the deal.

00:02:47 If you can pick out the fake question in this mailbag,

00:02:50 you don't have to answer it.

00:02:52 But if you do and you pick the wrong question,

00:02:55 we have to go five minutes for that lucky person.

00:02:57 So not only is everyone who asked a question

00:02:59 getting their answers,

00:03:00 but one of you might get an extended answer

00:03:02 if Jeff hears the question and incorrectly diagnoses

00:03:05 that it is the fake one, because obviously to you,

00:03:08 this real person asking the question,

00:03:10 you're probably offended.

00:03:10 So we're going to make it up to you.

00:03:12 And I will say, I did not make this obvious.

00:03:15 So this is not like, you know,

00:03:16 can you tell me the top five things you love

00:03:17 about Andrew the most?

00:03:19 And why is him being good looking the first?

00:03:21 It's a Patriots question.

00:03:22 So we'll see what you can do.

00:03:24 All right, leading off, Fiora,

00:03:28 like most fans down in the dumps,

00:03:30 she's asking, quote,

00:03:31 "How many years will it take to rebuild the Patriots?

00:03:33 They are so weak at so many positions,

00:03:36 massive turnover coming on both the player and coaching side.

00:03:39 I can't see this being a one or even two year project."

00:03:43 So first of all, do you agree?

00:03:44 And how long do you think it takes?

00:03:46 - I do agree.

00:03:47 And it's crazy how quickly things can change

00:03:50 because when we were talking,

00:03:51 probably the last time we were on here together,

00:03:54 it was, there was some optimism

00:03:56 that this was a team that could flirt

00:03:57 with between eight and 10 win category.

00:03:59 Maybe their defense was on an upward trajectory.

00:04:02 I certainly remember complimenting

00:04:03 the way the defense was built.

00:04:05 And that among a lot,

00:04:08 they've got the injury excuse

00:04:09 more than the offensive side, I think.

00:04:10 But the bigger picture here is,

00:04:13 I think this is a long-term rebuild.

00:04:16 And when you bring in a new regime,

00:04:18 if that's what happens,

00:04:20 coaches and GMs really, they want three years.

00:04:24 They want three years in order to be able

00:04:25 to bring in the right kind of people

00:04:27 to make some mistakes maybe in that first off season

00:04:30 or what have you.

00:04:31 I mean, two years is really fast,

00:04:33 but best case scenario,

00:04:35 they wind up with the one or the first or second pick.

00:04:37 They get Caleb Williams or Drake May.

00:04:39 And if they have the offensive staff

00:04:42 to support their development.

00:04:44 And if that happens, you know, again,

00:04:46 whether it's Belichick overseeing that offensive staff

00:04:49 and that thing goes according to plan, how they hope,

00:04:51 or they bring in a new offensive staff

00:04:54 and they help that quarterback in the upward trajectory.

00:04:58 You know, then even if it's,

00:05:00 all you need to do is see some optimism

00:05:02 at the end of year one with that rookie quarterback.

00:05:04 And then it's like, okay, like you're on your way.

00:05:06 I mean, look at what happened with Trevor Lawrence

00:05:09 in Jacksonville in year two.

00:05:11 You knew you had that piece in the right spot.

00:05:15 And now you just need to develop everything around him

00:05:17 and you can deal with those lumps

00:05:18 because you know you have the most important player

00:05:20 in place.

00:05:21 Look at Houston with CJ Stroud.

00:05:22 This is going much faster

00:05:24 than they ever could have anticipated.

00:05:26 And, you know, there's also the situations like the Giants

00:05:31 where there's some, maybe some false confidence

00:05:34 in that first year, because you know you need a reset

00:05:37 and internally those organizations know, okay, yeah,

00:05:40 you know, we're going to carry over some momentum

00:05:42 from the previous year,

00:05:43 but there's still a bit of a rebuild or a takedown

00:05:45 here in place.

00:05:46 So it depends on if they get their quarterback in place.

00:05:50 You know, it certainly wouldn't be a bad thing

00:05:52 to get Marvin Harrison at number three,

00:05:54 but really like you need the quarterback in place.

00:05:58 And if it's not, you got to start to get creative

00:06:01 in order to accelerate this rebuild.

00:06:04 - So part of me just wants to stop for a second

00:06:06 and sink into the fact that it's mid November,

00:06:08 November 15th, through your court on Wednesday afternoon

00:06:10 and just go, we're talking about the New England Patriots.

00:06:13 Having a top three pick and that being a likelihood,

00:06:16 not just an outside possibility,

00:06:18 because of how crazy it is and how fast things have changed

00:06:20 in the last few months.

00:06:21 Another part of me goes, look,

00:06:23 they need to shake that off,

00:06:24 this idea that this is a surprise as fast as possible.

00:06:27 And I think they have,

00:06:28 I think there's a resignation and acceptance

00:06:29 in all parts of that building that the season is lost.

00:06:32 They just got to move on, but it is crazy.

00:06:34 As far as my answer on this, I think I land,

00:06:37 it kind of depends on who the next guy is, right?

00:06:39 Because let's say, as we've all kind of indicated

00:06:42 and reported, like Gerard Mayo's the guy.

00:06:45 The next most important hire is going to be

00:06:46 the offensive coach and quarterback's coach.

00:06:49 And maybe you bring someone new in,

00:06:51 but then you're not ripping everything down to the studs,

00:06:54 whether it's a philosophy in the front office,

00:06:55 the coaching staff, you're kind of tweaking what's in place,

00:06:57 modernizing, updating, putting a twist on it.

00:07:00 I think that would allow for a quicker rebuild,

00:07:02 understanding you might get a better chance

00:07:04 of bringing back Mike Unwenu, Kyle Duggar, maybe Josh Uche.

00:07:07 And you add on top of what's there.

00:07:08 If you have a new coach and a new front office,

00:07:10 not only are they going to take more time

00:07:12 to rebuild what they've torn down,

00:07:14 but they're going to have more leeway, I think,

00:07:16 because if things are sour after Gerard Mayo for year two,

00:07:19 that's an easier plug to pull going,

00:07:21 okay, we're doing the same things

00:07:23 that are just a little tweaked and different,

00:07:25 but this isn't any kind of different result here.

00:07:27 We expected more, even if he's a younger head coach.

00:07:29 And so I think it kind of depends on what they do next,

00:07:33 which we of course won't know for another two months,

00:07:34 which I guess begs the question,

00:07:36 and this is not the fake one.

00:07:38 Are you of the belief that this is Bill's last year?

00:07:40 We haven't talked about this on or off the podcast.

00:07:43 - Yeah, I mean, I do.

00:07:47 I do think that's the direction they're heading in.

00:07:50 Something is broken here.

00:07:52 And I mean, kind of jumping off of a point you just made,

00:07:55 like do you plug and play Mayo

00:07:57 and kind of keep some stability?

00:07:59 What about this process over the last couple of years

00:08:03 suggests that all of a sudden a quick fix is,

00:08:06 something that's going to elevate this locker room

00:08:09 or the questions with the personnel and all that stuff.

00:08:12 I mean, there are, you look at some of the

00:08:17 Belichick tree failures, most recently Josh McDaniels,

00:08:22 and you've got to wonder, okay,

00:08:24 are these guys too rigid with how they operate?

00:08:29 I mean, I think Gerard Mayo has all the tools in the world.

00:08:32 I've said it for five years.

00:08:34 I said it go, I mean,

00:08:36 I covered all but one year of his playing career.

00:08:38 Like he's a ridiculously smart human being,

00:08:41 a really good leader,

00:08:43 a guy who has all the tools that you would want

00:08:45 to be a head coach.

00:08:46 I've said similar things about past Belichick tree coaches,

00:08:51 and that hasn't worked out.

00:08:52 So you've got to take an honest look in the mirror and say,

00:08:56 look, you could believe in this guy,

00:08:58 but maybe he's not the right guy for this building.

00:09:01 And that's a tough one for,

00:09:03 that's I think the toughest thing for Robert Kraft

00:09:06 to answer down the road when it comes to this point,

00:09:09 whether it's this off season or another one,

00:09:12 is if you keep things status quo

00:09:15 and you allow everybody to operate under the,

00:09:18 or with the tools that they've been taught from Belichick,

00:09:21 how quickly, realistically is everything going to change?

00:09:24 I mean, if you clean house,

00:09:25 if you bring in a Ben Johnson, Frank Smith, whatever,

00:09:28 you bring in a new general manager

00:09:30 with a completely different vision.

00:09:32 Yeah, maybe you do elongate that rebuild,

00:09:36 but at least you're doing it

00:09:37 with a different type of philosophy,

00:09:41 and you're going to give that a shot.

00:09:42 Whereas like you said, okay,

00:09:44 if Mayo doesn't work by the end of year two,

00:09:46 when you go in a different direction,

00:09:48 that's really prolonging this rebuild

00:09:50 because then you allow this system to stay in place.

00:09:53 And then you saw, okay, this isn't going to work.

00:09:56 And now you have to reset, you know,

00:09:58 two years from now, as opposed to this off season.

00:10:01 - All right.

00:10:02 Well, that leads us to the next question from Gary,

00:10:04 or maybe not Gary.

00:10:06 Let's assume that Mayo is,

00:10:07 or has been the head coach in waiting.

00:10:09 What was the successor for GM or football ops?

00:10:13 What was the plan there?

00:10:13 Was it Bill?

00:10:14 Or was the plan always to have that person take the job

00:10:17 with the head coach in place, which isn't exactly normal?

00:10:19 Okay, so I think basically Gary's asking

00:10:21 what was the plan at the front office?

00:10:22 And look, they committed to Jerron Mayo,

00:10:25 released a statement about,

00:10:27 not even we've signed him to a deal,

00:10:28 it's that we intend to do so,

00:10:29 which was unprecedented for the Patriots

00:10:31 to give any sort of update,

00:10:32 which told you, which proved to be true.

00:10:34 This was from the crafts.

00:10:35 So the crafts are in on Mayo.

00:10:38 And again, assuming that Mayo is still the guy

00:10:39 after what will be a three and 14,

00:10:41 or four and 13, or five and 12, whatever season.

00:10:44 What do you think happens here with the front office?

00:10:46 - I think if you are going to stay stable

00:10:52 with, you know, the Belichick tree,

00:10:55 then you're probably going to keep Mack Rowe,

00:10:57 or I mean, Wolf.

00:11:00 I mean, really.

00:11:02 You go to Dave Ziegler,

00:11:03 and see if you can bring some of those guys back.

00:11:06 There are former Belichick executives

00:11:10 who are still with a number of front offices

00:11:12 around the league.

00:11:13 Maybe you see if they're better suited than Rowe.

00:11:16 Maybe you think about promoting Wolf,

00:11:18 who I know is very highly regarded around the league.

00:11:21 So I think if you're keeping Mayo in place,

00:11:24 you want somebody he's familiar with in the front office,

00:11:28 as opposed to somebody completely different,

00:11:30 because then you've got the potential

00:11:33 for uncomfortability here.

00:11:35 Let's say you bring in,

00:11:36 we're going to get through some potential GM candidates.

00:11:40 Let's say you bring in an outside guy,

00:11:42 and after a year one or year two,

00:11:44 this outside guy who's the GM,

00:11:46 who's technically the head coach's boss,

00:11:49 says this isn't working,

00:11:50 and I want to go in a different direction.

00:11:51 I want to go in my own direction.

00:11:53 Then all of a sudden,

00:11:54 you've got two people going up the back stairs to ownership,

00:11:57 jockeying for power.

00:11:58 So that's why stability is important.

00:12:00 - Yeah, I knew you've seen that play out in Miami

00:12:02 with Brian Flores and Chris Greer.

00:12:05 A number of times in Cleveland,

00:12:06 it just seems to be a series of dysfunction.

00:12:08 It's the longest running drama show in the NFL.

00:12:11 But for-

00:12:12 - It's on "Greekosphere" with Pete Carroll.

00:12:14 - Yeah, yeah, there you go.

00:12:16 And so I don't know what the front office plan is here.

00:12:19 Like, I'm glad you're here to answer that part of it,

00:12:22 because I think what you would love to have

00:12:24 is some sort of package deal.

00:12:25 Like you bring up Ziegler,

00:12:26 went to Vegas with Josh McDaniels,

00:12:28 their line of philosophy,

00:12:29 the type of players they want,

00:12:31 the things they want to instill in their culture.

00:12:32 Obviously that did not pan out at all in Las Vegas,

00:12:36 but it's someone that Jarrod Mayo is familiar with,

00:12:38 and therefore probably either in the building

00:12:40 or recently left.

00:12:41 When it comes down to Matt Groh and Elliott Wolfe, however,

00:12:44 I personally would want to lean towards Elliott Wolfe,

00:12:46 understanding that he came up at least

00:12:48 in a different system.

00:12:49 And I think what that front office has suffered from,

00:12:51 as well as the coaching staff in recent years,

00:12:53 is just a lack of diversity of thought.

00:12:55 Like where are the new ideas coming from?

00:12:57 When everyone started in the organization,

00:12:59 learned the rules as Belichick set them,

00:13:01 and then just rose up the ranks.

00:13:03 They're not coming from anywhere.

00:13:04 And so someone who's had outside experience,

00:13:06 whether it's Wolfe or Ziegler,

00:13:07 or other people who have left the organization and got fired,

00:13:10 I think would be a benefit,

00:13:11 because they can blend other ideas

00:13:14 with what they have in the Patriots,

00:13:15 because at that point, if Mayo is staying,

00:13:17 as Gary assumed, you know, you're building on a foundation,

00:13:20 but updating it, modernizing it again,

00:13:22 not only just in the coaching and the culture side,

00:13:24 but in the front office as well.

00:13:26 - Yeah, I mean, I'll just make a real quick point there,

00:13:28 just to add to something earlier,

00:13:30 like Elliot Wolfe is very highly regarded.

00:13:33 - Yeah. - And I think he is

00:13:34 the future of that front office, if you stay in-house.

00:13:37 - Yeah.

00:13:38 Yeah, I've written about it before,

00:13:40 and I mean, you know more than I do,

00:13:42 but in speaking with a few agents,

00:13:43 it sounds like they deal with him a lot more

00:13:45 than they have Matt Groh.

00:13:46 And they weaned Matt Groh

00:13:47 onto like some very basic early re-signings,

00:13:49 like, "Hey, take care of Brian Hoyer a couple of years ago,"

00:13:52 or this and that.

00:13:53 Like straightforward kind of deals,

00:13:54 because he came up exclusively through the scouting side

00:13:57 and didn't really have more pro personnel experience,

00:13:59 where Elliot's really taken on that side and that role

00:14:02 as someone who I think is more comfortable as a negotiator.

00:14:04 Is that fair?

00:14:05 - Probably, yeah.

00:14:08 Yeah, well, I mean, Wolfe is,

00:14:10 he's more well-rounded, I think.

00:14:12 - Yeah, I like that.

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00:15:29 - All right, Lamar's question.

00:15:32 Quote, "If the Patriots were to make

00:15:34 an external head coach hire this office,

00:15:36 who would you like to see as an ideal scenario?"

00:15:39 Some names I've seen floating around are Ben Johnson,

00:15:42 Luanna Rumo, Jim Harbaugh, Eric Bien-Ami.

00:15:44 So you're talking about the Lions offensive coordinator,

00:15:46 Bengals defensive coordinator.

00:15:49 What do you call Jim Harbaugh?

00:15:50 I think his official title's head coach.

00:15:53 It also just might be head case at Michigan.

00:15:55 Eric Bien-Ami, of course,

00:15:57 offensive coordinator with the Commanders.

00:15:59 I'm not particularly high on any of those.

00:16:02 Maybe the first two, but you go first, Ian.

00:16:04 - Deion Sanders.

00:16:06 The media's unanimous pick is bringing-

00:16:10 - I can't call him Coach Prime.

00:16:12 You have no shame if you were a media member

00:16:15 addressing him as Coach Prime, but I will.

00:16:18 Yeah, I'm in. Let's do it.

00:16:20 - I think, I wrote a story earlier in the season.

00:16:24 I think Colorado was still unbeaten at this point,

00:16:27 so kind of captured that momentum.

00:16:30 But just about like what Deion Sanders' potential

00:16:32 as an NFL head coach and candidate would be.

00:16:34 And basically, I'm pretty sure everybody I spoke to,

00:16:38 if not the vast majority, said,

00:16:39 "You have to at least bring him in for an interview."

00:16:41 And maybe he says, "Hey, you know what?

00:16:44 Thanks, but no thanks.

00:16:44 I genuinely want to stay at Colorado,

00:16:46 see this thing through."

00:16:48 Okay, give him the opportunity to turn you down.

00:16:50 Maybe you bring him in and you realize

00:16:52 you're a perfect college head coach.

00:16:54 You're not for my NFL organization.

00:16:56 But I truly believe you're doing a disservice

00:16:58 to your organization if you don't at least

00:17:00 call Deion Sanders and try to bring him in for an interview.

00:17:04 - Oh, I love this so much.

00:17:05 The content would be just out of this world.

00:17:08 Nevermind that they're four and six right now

00:17:09 and their social media team, it has to be at his direction,

00:17:13 just put out a series of sentences with his,

00:17:15 you know, kind of, you know, stare out into the distance

00:17:18 where it was like, "I'm here, basically, I'm staying here."

00:17:21 And drawing a lot of attention to himself

00:17:23 'cause it's always about Deion.

00:17:24 But man, the prime stories and content

00:17:27 and clips and press conferences,

00:17:28 I cannot think of a bigger 180

00:17:31 from Bill Belichick to Deion Sanders.

00:17:35 - So hear me out here.

00:17:37 You want to really get wild.

00:17:39 - Yes, always. - Bringing Deion,

00:17:41 you wind up with the third pick

00:17:42 because let's say you beat the Giants.

00:17:45 You draft Marvin Harrison.

00:17:47 Deion gets Shador to declare.

00:17:49 You get Shador at number 35.

00:17:52 Now you get the Sanders ticket with Marvin Harrison,

00:17:54 a future Hall of Fame wide receiver.

00:17:56 And you want to talk about,

00:17:58 you got the dichotomy between going from Belichick

00:18:01 and not saying anything to Deion Sanders to say everything.

00:18:05 And you've got somebody who could be

00:18:09 one of the top five wide receivers in the NFL

00:18:12 the moment he puts on NFL cleats.

00:18:16 Somebody that the Patriots haven't had

00:18:18 since basically Randy Moss in his prime.

00:18:21 I mean, that's, you know, again,

00:18:26 I genuinely believe you need,

00:18:28 whether you're the Patriots or whoever you have,

00:18:30 whoever has an opening, you have to call Deion.

00:18:32 Give him a chance to turn you down, that's fine.

00:18:34 But you have to hear what he has to say

00:18:35 because you have to find out if that translates.

00:18:38 You want more realistic head coaching candidates.

00:18:41 - Well, no, I want to keep talking about this,

00:18:43 but I think I'm just going to bore you.

00:18:45 - I think people should.

00:18:46 Yeah, go ahead.

00:18:47 - I think Ben Johnson is going to be the number one guy.

00:18:50 Anirumo is going to certainly

00:18:53 get a lot more interviews again.

00:18:55 Frank Smith, the OC with the Dolphins.

00:18:58 I mean, just an unbelievable ability

00:19:00 to connect with his players on a human level.

00:19:03 I think that's becoming increasingly important

00:19:05 in this generation in the NFL.

00:19:07 I also think he's going to be,

00:19:09 depending on how the next couple of months

00:19:10 play out with the Raiders, I think,

00:19:11 'cause he's got a Raiders past,

00:19:13 he could be in the Hutt Commodity in Vegas.

00:19:16 Kellen Moore, another offensive mind.

00:19:20 He's going to be a candidate with a lot of interviews.

00:19:24 I think it's an interesting situation where if you are a,

00:19:30 if you're the offensive-minded head coach,

00:19:33 you get to put your system in,

00:19:35 keep it in place for as long as you're the guy.

00:19:37 If you bring in Anirumo or any of these defensive guys,

00:19:41 you have to hire a really good offensive coordinator

00:19:44 knowing full well,

00:19:45 especially if you draft a rookie quarterback,

00:19:48 if your offense has any sort of success,

00:19:50 that guy's gone in probably two or three years.

00:19:53 So it's an interesting sort of situation

00:19:57 that these teams find themselves in,

00:19:59 but that's why I think Johnson, Smith, and Moore

00:20:02 are going to be three highly sought-after coaches

00:20:05 this cycle.

00:20:07 - So Tom Pelissero's annual list of half the coaches

00:20:10 in the NFL, not to disparage a lot of research

00:20:13 and conversations he has,

00:20:14 but it's a very long list of potential next head coaches,

00:20:17 potential coordinators,

00:20:18 and then young assistants that are coming up.

00:20:20 The Patriots had D'Aron Mayo,

00:20:22 obviously listed as a candidate to become a head coach.

00:20:24 And then among the younger assistants

00:20:26 is rising up the ranks to Marcus Covington,

00:20:28 who had an interview to be the DC in Arizona.

00:20:30 Knowing how different the philosophy is

00:20:32 between what Jonathan Gannon's running

00:20:34 and what Covington knows,

00:20:35 I'm curious how legitimate that interview was,

00:20:38 but he is a very capable head coach.

00:20:39 And then Ross Douglas,

00:20:40 who's their receivers coach along with Troy Brown.

00:20:43 Look, I don't bring up any of those names

00:20:44 other than just to share with the folks listening

00:20:47 that they're on there.

00:20:48 The one name that kind of caught my eye,

00:20:50 and I like from a standpoint of,

00:20:52 he's someone who's doing very well with an organization

00:20:58 that I think you could pull a tag team of

00:21:01 from a head coach and GM.

00:21:02 Understanding that front office is well-respected,

00:21:04 values a lot of things that the Patriots do,

00:21:05 is Mike McDonald, the Ravens' defensive coordinator.

00:21:08 He's young, who is running one of the best,

00:21:10 if not the best defenses in the league right now.

00:21:12 And the Ravens and Patriots

00:21:15 have been just chasing the same players for 25 years.

00:21:17 So he's young, he's 36.

00:21:19 He also worked at Michigan before that,

00:21:21 has always been under the hard bars.

00:21:22 And the thing that I always harp on

00:21:23 with the head coaching conversation

00:21:25 is he might be so sharp on defense

00:21:28 and Ben Johnson has all the best X's

00:21:29 and the first rate O's out there,

00:21:31 but the head coaching job is administrative.

00:21:33 Like you are a principal of this football team.

00:21:36 You are not a professor

00:21:37 and that's where the line gets blurred

00:21:39 of you need someone who's a very good manager

00:21:41 and at least learning under John Harbaugh,

00:21:43 I think gives him an edge of being in that environment

00:21:45 where that's been a good culture

00:21:47 even in their bad seasons down in Baltimore.

00:21:50 - Yeah, I agree.

00:21:50 I mean, there's about 10 to 15 guys.

00:21:54 I wouldn't go about 250 deep,

00:21:56 but I think there's like 10 or 15 guys

00:21:58 who were on the short list of head coaching candidates

00:22:00 this hiring cycle, McDonald's certainly on them.

00:22:04 All right, let's move on.

00:22:05 Ashley, she always uses my name at the start of these

00:22:08 questions, very nice from Ashley.

00:22:09 Hi Andrew, if the Patriots would have gotten

00:22:11 quote just average quarterback play this year,

00:22:14 how many more wins would they have had?

00:22:17 I will tell you, so what, they're two and eight right now.

00:22:20 I would say four and six.

00:22:22 I think you beat two of the Eagles, Dolphins or Raiders.

00:22:27 I think you still win that Buffalo game.

00:22:30 And because look at some of the other games that they lost.

00:22:34 I mean, just devastating turnovers.

00:22:36 And with the Eagles, it was one foot down late

00:22:38 and part of that game, Mike Kosicki getting a half yard

00:22:41 or two on fourth down against the Dolphins,

00:22:43 Devontae Parker dropping that bomb,

00:22:44 but they're falling behind in all of these games

00:22:46 because Mac Jones, as we've said, had picked sixes

00:22:49 or turnovers deep inside opposing opponents territory

00:22:54 in Las Vegas.

00:22:55 And you're just not gonna happen

00:22:56 if someone can just drive the bus and go the speed limit

00:22:58 and not crash into the nearest building.

00:23:00 So I think that's fair, but four and six in the NFL,

00:23:04 as we all know, could also be three and five

00:23:06 or three and seven, excuse me, or five and five,

00:23:10 because that's just how thin the line is

00:23:11 between victory and defeat.

00:23:12 Is that unreasonable?

00:23:14 - No, I think I brought up the schedule

00:23:19 as you were talking there.

00:23:20 I think two win, first of all,

00:23:22 I wanna preface this by saying,

00:23:24 you want average quarterback play?

00:23:27 You know, the whole system has failed Mac Jones

00:23:29 and I'm not absolving him of his guilt

00:23:31 in this equation here.

00:23:33 He certainly has not played anywhere near the level

00:23:35 that we've seen him capable of playing

00:23:38 throughout his career and whatever.

00:23:42 We're not gonna run through what could be six weeks

00:23:44 worth of shows on this topic.

00:23:46 But I think it's, when you say average quarterback play,

00:23:50 he's not the only guilty party in this.

00:23:52 I mean, the offense line hasn't been great,

00:23:54 all that other stuff.

00:23:55 Honestly, I thought he delivered average quarterback play

00:23:59 against the Eagles.

00:24:00 It's not his fault, Keishon Booty,

00:24:02 in two of the maybe four most important plays of the game,

00:24:05 couldn't find the sideline.

00:24:07 The Dolphins, I thought he gave you average quarterback play

00:24:09 there too, I think he had a bad interception.

00:24:12 But I mean, again, that was a good Dolphins team

00:24:15 where you needed to play better than average

00:24:18 in order to win that game, in my opinion.

00:24:20 I don't think any of the turnovers that he had early

00:24:24 against the Cowboys or Saints doesn't change that outcome.

00:24:27 I mean, you're asking for better quarterback play,

00:24:29 you're also asking for six or seven other things to go

00:24:31 in your favor for those outcomes to be wiped away.

00:24:34 I do think average quarterback play against the Commanders

00:24:37 and the Colts turns those two games around.

00:24:39 Certainly the Colts, most likely the Commanders.

00:24:42 So yeah, I'm with you.

00:24:43 I think it's four and six as well,

00:24:46 but probably two different games than the ones you picked.

00:24:49 - Yeah, you know what, you're absolutely right.

00:24:51 I'm taking that L.

00:24:52 I started from the beginning, didn't even get to the end.

00:24:54 Understanding the best case was right behind me,

00:24:57 Germany, and then at home against the Commanders.

00:24:59 You're right, because he made fewer total mistakes,

00:25:03 but those were worse.

00:25:04 And against the Eagles,

00:25:05 he had three touchdowns and one interception.

00:25:06 So you're absolutely right.

00:25:07 I retract what I said and stammered over.

00:25:09 And we're moving on.

00:25:11 Liam is asking, where is he?

00:25:13 Do you think the Pats can actually get draft compensation

00:25:15 for Bill Belichick in a trade this offseason?

00:25:18 - Is this the fake one?

00:25:19 - No, it is not.

00:25:20 We have to spend five minutes on this.

00:25:22 - All right.

00:25:25 I do.

00:25:26 And I meant to look this up earlier.

00:25:29 I believe every, I did a story about this

00:25:33 maybe a year or two ago.

00:25:34 So I'm going off of memory.

00:25:37 I think I'm correct that every head coaching trade

00:25:41 in the course of the last 50 years,

00:25:42 and there's only been like six of them,

00:25:44 has brought the first round pick in return.

00:25:48 And this is something that I've certainly asked around about

00:25:52 and I'm not saying there's a consensus here,

00:25:55 but if you are an organization that wants Bill Belichick

00:25:59 and you know the Patriots have decided,

00:26:01 hey, you know what, we're gonna go our separate ways,

00:26:04 then you absolutely make that call

00:26:06 and you try to get something done.

00:26:07 I mean, if you are, now, there's a lot.

00:26:11 I think it's always been a first round pick.

00:26:14 I think it has to be a first round pick.

00:26:15 I mean, if you want Belichick that badly,

00:26:17 I think you have to be willing to give up a first round pick

00:26:20 in order to make this happen.

00:26:22 Who knows, maybe negotiations go sideways

00:26:26 at the second round pick,

00:26:27 but you need everybody to be on board.

00:26:28 You know, there's a lot of,

00:26:29 it's easy to connect the commanders to Belichick

00:26:32 because it's a new ownership group.

00:26:34 They're gonna wanna make a splash higher.

00:26:35 They need to be more marketable in their,

00:26:38 among their fan base.

00:26:41 Bringing in somebody like Belichick

00:26:42 is going to put people in the seats.

00:26:45 But let's say Belichick sits there and says,

00:26:47 I don't wanna go to the commanders.

00:26:48 So like Robert Kraft could say,

00:26:51 I'm gonna send them to you for a first round pick.

00:26:53 If Belichick doesn't sign off on that,

00:26:55 like you don't have a trade.

00:26:57 - Are we saying he learned from Rob Gronkowski

00:26:59 how to stop a trade by threatening to retire

00:27:02 as Gronk did when Bill wanted to ship him

00:27:04 to Detroit in 2018?

00:27:05 Is that's what happened?

00:27:06 You know, the master is learning from the apprentice here?

00:27:09 - He could.

00:27:10 I mean, there's, look, I've said this for 13 years.

00:27:14 If you're not learning from Rob Gronkowski,

00:27:17 what are you doing?

00:27:18 So, I mean, he is richer than I will ever be

00:27:21 in my wildest dreams.

00:27:22 And he is retired at what, 31?

00:27:25 I remember you and I were on the same flight

00:27:26 when that happened, when he retired,

00:27:28 going to the owners meetings.

00:27:29 - I remember, yeah, that's right.

00:27:30 - Yeah.

00:27:32 First round pick.

00:27:33 So this is, there's a lot that goes

00:27:35 into this conversation, right?

00:27:37 And this conversation goes between owner to owner,

00:27:39 which I think, you know, in times of negotiation

00:27:44 and leverage, like typically favors those

00:27:45 who's doing the selling.

00:27:46 Like you could go to the NBA where, you know,

00:27:48 the trade that sent Kevin Durant to the Suns

00:27:50 was just everything that Phoenix had.

00:27:52 It was a new ownership group.

00:27:53 They were desperate.

00:27:54 They think they know better.

00:27:55 You get to make the easy fix.

00:27:56 The fans are on your side.

00:27:57 And maybe it is the commanders.

00:27:58 And Robert Kraft says, "I'll just hang on to him.

00:28:00 He's got one more year left in this deal.

00:28:02 We've got our head coach in waiting.

00:28:03 What are we gonna wait for?"

00:28:05 But then if the commanders go,

00:28:06 "Well, who are we bidding against?

00:28:07 Like, why am I gonna cough up a first round pick

00:28:09 to hamstring Belichick to come in here,

00:28:12 have to tear down, we don't have our best asset.

00:28:15 We'll give you a two and you'll take it and like it."

00:28:18 Is that something you can say no to?

00:28:23 - No, no, absolutely not.

00:28:24 I agree completely.

00:28:25 I mean, because if they're the only team

00:28:28 and they're an NFC team that really isn't built to win now

00:28:33 and they're offering a two and that's it,

00:28:35 you take the two.

00:28:36 I mean, if it's, hypothetically,

00:28:39 let's say it's the Cowboys.

00:28:40 Let's say they have a first round exit.

00:28:42 Jerry Jones decides, "All right, McCarthy's not the guy."

00:28:45 And now all of a sudden you've got the Cowboys calling

00:28:47 and you're Robert Kraft and you're like,

00:28:48 "Am I really gonna give Bill Belichick to Jerry Jones

00:28:51 with a roster that's ready to win?"

00:28:53 Look, we can poke fun at the Cowboys

00:28:57 for their last 25 years all we want.

00:28:59 That roster can win the next three Super Bowls.

00:29:01 Like, they're that talented.

00:29:02 So like, do you really wanna add Bill Belichick

00:29:04 to that equation?

00:29:05 So that might be a different situation.

00:29:07 The problem there is like,

00:29:08 if the Cowboys are the only team offering again

00:29:11 and you say, "Well, we're not gonna take it.

00:29:13 We're just gonna fire him."

00:29:14 And then he goes to the Cowboys anyway.

00:29:16 Then what did you really just accomplish?

00:29:19 - Yeah, and I think there are other teams

00:29:20 which we don't, actually we do,

00:29:22 because Liam probably, we only gave him like four minutes.

00:29:24 I should have been timing it.

00:29:26 The Giants I've come around on,

00:29:27 like you and I discussed off air that,

00:29:29 hey, they pulled the trigger on Ben McAdoo,

00:29:32 who went 11 and five in his first season,

00:29:34 didn't finish the second year.

00:29:35 More complicated there with Eli's legacy at stake

00:29:37 and whatnot.

00:29:38 Joe Judge, gone after two years, deserved or not.

00:29:40 And so Brian Dable at two and eight,

00:29:42 like they're headed for the second pick right now.

00:29:43 And it doesn't look like they're gonna rise

00:29:45 anywhere above the top five,

00:29:46 so long as Tommy DeVito is still the starting quarterback

00:29:49 and he will be this Sunday against those commanders.

00:29:51 So maybe there is a bigger market,

00:29:53 which frankly, if you're Kraft,

00:29:54 that's exactly what you want,

00:29:56 'cause that'll drive his price up.

00:29:57 And all of these owners,

00:29:59 not only is it just you're bidding against more people,

00:30:02 but the commanders against the Giants.

00:30:04 I mean, that's perfect.

00:30:05 You have two divisional foes who go,

00:30:06 "If we don't get him, we'll see him twice a year."

00:30:09 Forget what the last four years have been in New England.

00:30:11 He's still the greatest coach of all time,

00:30:12 and we can get him here for at least three more years

00:30:14 or face him in that other instance.

00:30:17 - Yeah, I mean, I wonder,

00:30:19 and again, I'm just spitballing here.

00:30:21 I'm not trying to like source any information.

00:30:24 Belichick and Dable have been very close for years.

00:30:27 So if this is a situation where,

00:30:29 like if Mara fought, if the Giants or Mara,

00:30:32 whoever's behind that decision fires Dable first

00:30:36 and then goes after Belichick,

00:30:37 okay, maybe he thinks, okay, this makes sense.

00:30:40 If they try to backdoor this situation

00:30:43 and say, "We're gonna bring you in,

00:30:44 "but it's gonna come at Dable's expense,"

00:30:47 I would be very surprised if Belichick

00:30:49 went through with something like that.

00:30:50 The other thing is, you know,

00:30:52 Joe Shane is doing a good job as GM.

00:30:55 Again, this is a long rebuild.

00:30:57 So I'm sure he's got his detractors in New York

00:31:01 who would disagree,

00:31:02 but like, I think Joe Shane is doing a good job.

00:31:05 If you're Mara, do you bring in Belichick

00:31:08 knowing that Belichick is going to have a boss

00:31:11 who's gonna oversee the personnel?

00:31:12 And what's that relationship gonna be like?

00:31:14 If you're Belichick

00:31:16 and you're used to running your own organization

00:31:18 and you don't have to answer to anybody for the most part,

00:31:21 do you want to work with a GM?

00:31:23 So like, you gotta kind of wonder

00:31:24 how that sort of aspect plays out too.

00:31:28 - Yeah, there's a lot that goes into it.

00:31:29 All right, I think we gave Liam enough.

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00:32:58 - Let's do another question.

00:33:00 This is from John.

00:33:01 I think you've answered this already,

00:33:03 but the question is, quote,

00:33:04 "If the Patriots move on from Belichick,

00:33:06 "is it just time to move on from anyone associated with him

00:33:10 "and his coaching tree and bring in a new philosophy

00:33:13 "from outside the organization?"

00:33:14 So basically, this isn't the question that John asked,

00:33:17 but we've discussed a lot of what the rebuild would take,

00:33:20 who would take over in either instance

00:33:21 and different candidates.

00:33:23 Would you prefer, you personally, Jeff Al,

00:33:25 or sitting in for Robert Kraut,

00:33:27 think it's better for them to go

00:33:28 with Gerard Mayo and company

00:33:30 and let him bring in some different people

00:33:32 or completely start anew?

00:33:34 - I would start over, unless, again,

00:33:37 these last seven games show some sort of signs of life.

00:33:41 I mean, I think having Gerard Mayo

00:33:44 and Josh McDaniels before that as the succession plan

00:33:48 made all the sense in the world

00:33:50 if you were just trying to sustain the momentum

00:33:52 that Belichick left behind upon his retirement.

00:33:55 But if you need to completely rebuild this thing,

00:33:58 I think you probably just owe it to yourself

00:34:00 to try to find a different philosophy.

00:34:02 I haven't landed there just yet

00:34:06 because I think largely the philosophy,

00:34:08 and people get so reductive in the whole,

00:34:10 it was Brady the whole time.

00:34:11 Like we cannot rewrite history

00:34:12 or all the low scoring games they won in the playoffs

00:34:14 or in 2003 and 2004, 2005, 2006,

00:34:18 before Brady became Brady.

00:34:19 I think a lot of it works, but it needs some updating.

00:34:22 Like in writing a story last month

00:34:24 about Mac Jones' downfall

00:34:27 and the things that he's done wrong

00:34:28 and have gone wrong for him.

00:34:30 You find it for an office,

00:34:31 someone told me is like,

00:34:32 dabbled in analytics and tries it,

00:34:34 but it often just boils down to whatever Bill thinks.

00:34:36 And sometimes they're working as hard as they can.

00:34:38 And it's just his gut feeling and stuff like that.

00:34:40 I think you can probably throw out

00:34:42 and add in some more modern evaluation techniques

00:34:46 or processes and systems

00:34:47 that could give you a better chance at landing better players

00:34:50 'cause they just don't have as much.

00:34:51 So I don't know, I could see either way.

00:34:53 I'm probably with you though.

00:34:54 If this is, it's crazy to think if it's six and 11,

00:34:57 that's a big difference than three and 14.

00:35:00 And yet you think by now,

00:35:01 like you know you got a clean house,

00:35:02 but I don't know, I wanna see a little bit more.

00:35:06 - There's a couple of things I'd add to that.

00:35:08 I alluded to this in a story I wrote earlier this week

00:35:11 about the Patriots.

00:35:13 The 2000 Patriots went three and three

00:35:17 down the stretch there.

00:35:17 And granted they finished six and 10,

00:35:20 five and 11, whatever it was.

00:35:21 - Five and 11, yeah.

00:35:23 - They went three and three down the stretch.

00:35:24 And I know people, 23 years later

00:35:27 will hear me say this and probably roll their eyes,

00:35:30 but I would not say it if I didn't mean it

00:35:32 and if I didn't think people were being genuine with me.

00:35:34 The players on that 2000 team who were holdovers

00:35:37 and stayed in 2001 said absolutely

00:35:40 that three and three finish helped them carry some momentum

00:35:43 into the 2001 season.

00:35:44 And there were, I think it was William McGinnis.

00:35:49 There was a guy in that locker room

00:35:52 who sold Rodney Harris, oh not Rodney Harrison.

00:35:55 Good Lord.

00:35:57 He was a big free agent who came in in 2002.

00:35:59 And it's killing me that I can't think of who it was.

00:36:03 But they were like, "Hey, look,

00:36:04 I know the record wasn't good last year,

00:36:06 but we're onto something."

00:36:07 And they helped recruit guys who came in.

00:36:10 And it's killing me that I can't think

00:36:12 of who this player was.

00:36:13 - Roman Pfeiffer?

00:36:14 - It was Roman Pfeiffer, yes.

00:36:16 Thank you.

00:36:18 - You're welcome.

00:36:19 - Pfeiffer was a bigger free agent

00:36:21 that I think people probably realized at that point.

00:36:23 But they had guys who were like,

00:36:24 "Hey, come play for this team.

00:36:26 I'm telling you we're onto something."

00:36:28 Now, I'm not saying that they're gonna go three

00:36:31 and three down the stretch here,

00:36:32 and all of a sudden they're gonna win

00:36:33 the Super Bowl next year.

00:36:34 Like, I'm not even in that neighborhood.

00:36:37 I'm not in that zip code.

00:36:39 But it is important with the way you finish.

00:36:40 And if they do finish,

00:36:42 and maybe they do change some things up after the bye,

00:36:45 they change some of these coaching processes up,

00:36:47 or whatever, maybe they get more, I don't know.

00:36:50 Like, Kraft sees something different.

00:36:52 And maybe he says, "Hey, Bill,

00:36:54 give Mayo some more authority."

00:36:56 I don't know how that would go over.

00:36:57 But let's just say something does get tinkered

00:36:59 down the stretch, and there is a reason to believe

00:37:01 that the momentum can be sustainable into next year.

00:37:04 Then, yeah, maybe you do keep what you've got,

00:37:06 and you do change the processes.

00:37:08 I mean, the 2021 draft was a much more collaborative

00:37:12 approach than most of the last,

00:37:14 let's call it five to eight drafts.

00:37:15 And it was the best draft class they've had

00:37:17 in quite some time.

00:37:19 I don't believe it's been as collaborative

00:37:21 the past two years.

00:37:22 And certainly the '22 draft is shaping up to be a disaster.

00:37:26 So if you bring in Mayo, or you promote Mayo,

00:37:31 and you say, "Look, you're gonna coach the football team.

00:37:35 Wolf and Groh, and whoever else they have

00:37:38 running the personnel department is gonna do their job.

00:37:40 They're gonna control the draft,

00:37:41 and they're gonna put the roster together.

00:37:43 And you guys are gonna work in harmony,

00:37:45 and Mayo is on board with that."

00:37:46 Then I think, "Okay, that makes some sense."

00:37:48 But I still think you want to modernize the offense.

00:37:50 - All right.

00:37:53 Yeah, I'm with you.

00:37:54 I think we're in the same area.

00:37:55 It's just a matter of like,

00:37:56 what's your actual address

00:37:57 versus I live in this area of town.

00:37:59 Like, you know, we're in agreement.

00:38:01 Eric is asking,

00:38:02 "Could Bill force his way to the Giants

00:38:05 with a potential trade?"

00:38:06 And the hypothetical, I love this part,

00:38:08 comp, compensation being a pick swap in the first round

00:38:12 if the Giants finish with a worse record than the Patriots,

00:38:16 which is of course very important right now

00:38:18 because the Patriots are expected to pick third.

00:38:20 A lot of season to go, yada, yada.

00:38:22 The Giants are second.

00:38:23 And this is, at least for now,

00:38:24 seen as a two quarterback class at the very top,

00:38:27 elite can't miss prospects,

00:38:28 Caleb Williams and Drake May.

00:38:29 So you make that swap,

00:38:31 you get a chance at one of those two guys

00:38:33 and the other team does not.

00:38:35 But the other team in this instance gets Bill Belichick.

00:38:37 I don't know how likely this is.

00:38:38 I don't even know if this is possible,

00:38:40 but this kind of like rights to swap picks,

00:38:44 NBA style trade,

00:38:45 I freaking love considering the stakes

00:38:47 and the characters and the teams involved.

00:38:49 - I actually, I really like that proposal.

00:38:53 That's a cool one.

00:38:54 For two reasons, I like it for both teams actually.

00:38:57 And this has a chance to bite the Giants.

00:39:00 I don't want to rehash all the stuff we just mentioned

00:39:02 about Dayball and Shane and all that stuff.

00:39:04 This has a chance to bite the Giants

00:39:05 if Drake May and or Caleb Williams

00:39:08 turn into absolute superstars

00:39:10 and whatever the Giants plan to quarterback,

00:39:12 let's say they move on from Daniel Jones a year from now,

00:39:14 it doesn't pan out.

00:39:15 Then yeah, you sit there and you have some big time regret.

00:39:17 But on the Patriots side,

00:39:19 you know, Caleb Williams is like the,

00:39:21 he's got the Patrick Mahomes playing style.

00:39:23 Drake May has been described to me as a hybrid,

00:39:26 Justin Herbert, Josh Allen, 6'4", 230, massive arm.

00:39:30 I mean, you want,

00:39:31 this is the prototypical quarterback you build

00:39:34 to play in the Northeast,

00:39:35 especially when you get up toward New England,

00:39:37 when it's going to get cold,

00:39:38 you need a physical guy,

00:39:39 you need a guy who can really put some spin on the ball

00:39:41 and launch it.

00:39:42 So I think Drake May,

00:39:44 look, Caleb Williams certainly has a higher ceiling

00:39:49 and I'm not saying he's got a lower floor

00:39:50 or anything like that,

00:39:52 but like two, three months ago,

00:39:54 this was viewed as the Caleb Williams class.

00:39:56 And then maybe Drake May enters the conversation.

00:39:59 Drake May is more than in the conversation.

00:40:01 This is a guy who is basically any other year,

00:40:04 the last five years, except the Trevor Lawrence year.

00:40:06 Every other year going back to post Andrew Luck

00:40:09 is in the conversation for a number one pick.

00:40:12 He is quite possibly the best,

00:40:14 he's shaping up to be the best consolation prize

00:40:17 at potentially number two as any quarterback

00:40:19 that we've seen in quite a while.

00:40:21 So Drake May would be perfect for New England.

00:40:23 So that'd be a great opportunity for the Patriots

00:40:26 if that's who they wind up with.

00:40:27 Now, whoever, let's say number one goes May

00:40:29 and you get Caleb Williams,

00:40:31 that works out just fine too.

00:40:32 But then if you're the Giants,

00:40:35 you need help at receiver

00:40:36 and you need help on the offensive line.

00:40:38 Whoever you want, take Marvin Harrison,

00:40:40 he's going to help you take a left tackle.

00:40:42 There's three of them

00:40:43 that are going to help you quite a bit too.

00:40:45 And if you're Belichick,

00:40:47 you know, you've got Daniel Jones,

00:40:49 whose contract is fully guaranteed next year

00:40:51 now that he's missing the end of the season with an injury.

00:40:53 We've got a veteran quarterback who's coming back

00:40:56 who has some limitations,

00:40:58 but is a guy who can possibly help you

00:40:59 win some games right off the bat.

00:41:02 - I love it so much.

00:41:04 A couple other quarterbacks worth mentioning,

00:41:05 JJ McCarthy from Michigan,

00:41:07 Michael Penix out in Washington,

00:41:09 Shadur Sanders, future head coach,

00:41:11 quarterback on the New England Patriots.

00:41:13 The funny part about this though,

00:41:15 is let's say this happens,

00:41:16 which I don't think it will.

00:41:18 This is just kind of a thought exercise here.

00:41:21 And it is 2-3, it is the Patriots-Giants,

00:41:23 and Belichick goes back.

00:41:25 If Marvin Harrison Jr. is sitting there at three,

00:41:28 and I understand you've already put him in Kenton,

00:41:30 you have fit him for a gold jacket,

00:41:31 you've sent it to his house,

00:41:33 you've put Pro Bowl trophies and MVPs

00:41:36 in his award and trophy case.

00:41:39 I don't think Bill takes Marvin Harrison Jr. at three.

00:41:43 I think he takes an offensive tackle or trades down,

00:41:46 which answers the question from Jordan,

00:41:47 how likely is it that Bill trades down

00:41:49 from any top five pick we get this offseason?

00:41:51 Because his investment in receivers, or lack thereof,

00:41:54 is so well documented from the draft and for agency.

00:41:58 I just am enjoying the thought of the press conference

00:42:01 after this, again, hypothetical scenario

00:42:03 we're just kind of walking through,

00:42:05 of the Giants have the third pick

00:42:07 because they got Belichick and swapped with the Patriots.

00:42:09 And then two quarterbacks go.

00:42:10 And then Marvin Harrison Jr. can't miss receiver prospect

00:42:13 of this generation is sitting there at three,

00:42:14 and Bill says no thanks for a team

00:42:17 that is just right there with the Patriots

00:42:19 in the basement of the league when it comes to pass catchers.

00:42:22 How does that go for those reporters who were like,

00:42:24 okay, yeah, the tackle for Penn State's great,

00:42:27 but they already have two first round tackles.

00:42:29 - I'm wearing a Lowell High sweatshirt right now.

00:42:36 I think I'm going down in history as the first person

00:42:39 to ever wear a Lowell High sweatshirt on a podcast.

00:42:42 And I say that because I have family members

00:42:46 who are Patriots season ticket holders.

00:42:49 And I feel, I would feel for them

00:42:51 if Belichick overlooked Marvin Harrison to take a tackle.

00:42:56 And the hard thing there is like,

00:42:59 there are the Penn State kid,

00:43:02 you've got Alts from Notre Dame.

00:43:04 There's like one or two other guys

00:43:06 who could be top 10 picks.

00:43:07 It's a really good time to need to tackle

00:43:10 if you're going into the draft.

00:43:11 And there's like the whole thing of like,

00:43:16 I mean, shoot, I cover the whole league.

00:43:18 I still watch all, I've seen all 10 Patriots games.

00:43:22 I know they need a tackle.

00:43:23 I know they need one badly.

00:43:25 And everybody always wants to tackle

00:43:26 until it's time to draft one.

00:43:28 And there's a shiny receiver there on the board.

00:43:30 But, and you look at,

00:43:33 I hope I'm not screwing this up in blending draft classes,

00:43:36 but you got the Lions who got Sewell,

00:43:38 you got the Bengals who got Chase.

00:43:41 Both of those teams, I'm assuming,

00:43:43 I think those were five, six in the same draft.

00:43:46 If they're not, just play along and humor me.

00:43:49 Both of those teams are happy

00:43:50 with their selections right now,

00:43:51 even though the Bengals still need a tackle.

00:43:54 I think if you pass over a wide receiver

00:43:58 who for really like the last two years

00:44:00 has been earmarked for Canton,

00:44:02 that's a hard, hard sell.

00:44:07 And Jeff, you know, everything we have-

00:44:11 - We did with the Patriot team.

00:44:13 We put the best player on the board.

00:44:14 We did the best for the football team.

00:44:17 I've said it 50 times.

00:44:19 - It's, you know, the other part too is like,

00:44:25 I've written this, I've studied this.

00:44:28 I mean, the first part,

00:44:29 like you can get wide receivers anywhere,

00:44:30 assuming you know how to scout them.

00:44:32 Patriots really haven't proven that.

00:44:35 You can't, you cannot get quality left tackles

00:44:38 after the top 40.

00:44:40 And you really have to get lucky

00:44:41 to get a good one in the 20 to 40 range.

00:44:43 Like if you want a quality left tackle,

00:44:45 you gotta go top 10.

00:44:46 So it's like, you can take a left tackle

00:44:49 over Marvin Harrison Jr. and not be wrong,

00:44:53 but man, it's gonna be hard to sell t-shirts.

00:44:58 - I'm just looking forward to you introducing him

00:45:01 the 2047 Pro Football Hall of Fame class.

00:45:03 This is gonna be a great time in Cannes,

00:45:05 which we, oh no, maybe we individually fly there in cars.

00:45:08 Maybe that's the time.

00:45:09 Okay, that was fun.

00:45:11 Yeah, I think there's a good chance Bill trades down

00:45:13 or does something,

00:45:14 but I also don't think he's gonna be here.

00:45:15 So Jordan, you don't have to worry about it.

00:45:16 Eric, thank you for the content.

00:45:18 Mack Jones Tank Commander.

00:45:20 This is the name of our next questionnaire.

00:45:23 And he is asking, or she's asking, or they're asking,

00:45:27 who is hitting for agency next year?

00:45:28 They have so many needs and a ton of cap space

00:45:31 so that the Patriots can improve across the whole roster.

00:45:33 Here are the big names.

00:45:35 On offense, Trent Brown, Hunter Henry,

00:45:39 Kendrick Bourne, Mike Onwenu.

00:45:41 Defensively, Kyle Duggar, Josh Uche,

00:45:44 and a couple other smaller pieces.

00:45:46 But the defensive line is pretty much intact

00:45:48 and they locked up Bentley and Tavine in the last 12 months

00:45:50 so they're not going anywhere

00:45:51 and they're starting linebackers.

00:45:52 I'm sorry, but that's about it.

00:45:53 I guess I just answered his question.

00:45:57 I guess I don't have anything to ask you.

00:46:00 But of those, give me really quickly,

00:46:02 and we'll go on to the next one,

00:46:03 the most probable to resign and most important to resign.

00:46:08 - I think, like, looking at the state of the roster,

00:46:12 some of the recent drafts,

00:46:14 you've got to take care of the homegrown talent.

00:46:16 I mean, the fact of the matter is,

00:46:19 they're not resigning their top picks.

00:46:23 Like, I think Dietrich Wise is the last position player

00:46:26 that they've drafted in the first three or four rounds

00:46:29 who was signed.

00:46:30 - He was a fourth round pick.

00:46:31 - Is that?

00:46:32 - He was a fourth round pick.

00:46:33 The last pick they've resigned was Jake Bailey,

00:46:34 who's now obviously not here anymore.

00:46:36 And then before that, Zach Cox had this the other day.

00:46:39 - Was it Bentley?

00:46:41 - No, but top two picks, or top, first or second round,

00:46:46 maybe it was Jamie Collins.

00:46:48 - No, they traded him at the end of his rookie year,

00:46:50 at the end of his rookie contract.

00:46:51 - All right, I'll find this.

00:46:52 Keep going.

00:46:53 - But wait, give me some names, though.

00:46:54 Most important to resign in--

00:46:56 - So, what do you think--

00:46:57 - That was not the last one.

00:46:58 - Yeah.

00:46:59 - No, he didn't resign.

00:47:00 Ted Karras?

00:47:01 I don't know, whatever, anyway.

00:47:02 (laughing)

00:47:04 - I know it's gonna turn into a podcast

00:47:07 where we just name baseball players from the 1970s.

00:47:09 - Yes.

00:47:10 - Trent Brown has, he's not a perfect player.

00:47:14 You just, you can't lose any more talent

00:47:18 on the offensive line, so I would keep him.

00:47:21 Kyle Duggar is somebody that I would certainly

00:47:23 really, really go all out to try to sign.

00:47:26 I'm not sure I would make him a top three safety

00:47:29 in terms of payment, but short of that,

00:47:32 I would make him a priority.

00:47:34 I've always thought very highly of Josh Uche.

00:47:37 I'm concerned about the injury pattern.

00:47:39 That's not something that has just been an NFL thing,

00:47:43 and maybe this is part of that,

00:47:45 but I'm also concerned about the diminished production

00:47:49 without Matt Judon, so I'd be curious

00:47:52 what type of contract he commands.

00:47:54 Unwennu, I think, has the ability to continue

00:47:57 being a fantastic offensive lineman,

00:47:59 so those are the ones.

00:48:00 I mean, I think Hunter Henry, if it's five

00:48:04 to seven million a year, sure,

00:48:06 but he is no longer a guy who deserves,

00:48:09 or should be in the conversation

00:48:13 to be a top 10 paid tight end,

00:48:15 because you can draft those guys.

00:48:17 - So I'm starting with the tackles.

00:48:19 I don't know if Trent Brown wants to come back,

00:48:20 though, frankly, it'll depend a lot on the new head coach,

00:48:23 but Michael Unwennu can play right tackle in the NFL.

00:48:25 You have not had a legitimate right tackle

00:48:28 since Trent Brown was over there in 2021.

00:48:30 - The answer to the question that I botched

00:48:32 and then researched, and you couldn't find an answer for,

00:48:35 was the last draft pick the Patriots have made

00:48:38 in the top three rounds who received a second contract,

00:48:41 so first, second, or third round pick,

00:48:43 was Daron Harmon, who was drafted in 2013 out of Rutgers,

00:48:48 and since then, Jake Bailey's re-signed,

00:48:51 he was a fifth round pick in 2019.

00:48:53 That's bad, is the lesson there.

00:48:54 All right, moving on, Mack Jones, 10th commander.

00:48:57 This is from Jeff.

00:48:59 "Is there a world in which the Patriots pull a GM

00:49:04 "or head coach from the media like the 49ers did

00:49:07 "with John Lynch, and if so, who would it be?"

00:49:10 - Rob Gronkowski.

00:49:12 (laughing)

00:49:14 - That is a good answer, 'cause you know what this was?

00:49:18 - Was that the fake one?

00:49:20 - That was the fake question, yeah.

00:49:22 - Oh, wow.

00:49:23 I'll give you a serious answer.

00:49:25 I think the only, I hope I'm not missing anybody,

00:49:29 the only truly qualified prominent media analyst

00:49:34 for a job like that would be Louis Riddick.

00:49:37 - Mm, good answer.

00:49:39 - He's really, really smart.

00:49:40 I think he's absolutely capable of running a front office.

00:49:43 He's got the experience in the past,

00:49:46 and I'm surprised he has not gotten this opportunity yet.

00:49:51 He's genuinely good and I think deserves the opportunity.

00:49:56 - All right, well, fake Jeff is happy with his answer.

00:49:58 On to real Jeff.

00:49:59 I sold this guy's intro to his question.

00:50:02 "Is there a world in which Belichick realizes

00:50:04 "just how bad the team is,

00:50:05 "and in order to secure the best draft pick possible,

00:50:07 "just doesn't sign anyone else to play the secondary?"

00:50:10 So he's basically asking the Patriots

00:50:13 to play some of their practice squad corners,

00:50:15 like Breon Borders, who apparently would be

00:50:17 the ultimate Immaculate Grid answer,

00:50:19 because he's been on nine different teams,

00:50:21 but hasn't played for most of them, including the Patriots.

00:50:24 I think this is, of course, a question sparked

00:50:26 by Jack Jones no longer being with the team.

00:50:29 JC Jackson was back at practice today,

00:50:31 before the bye, after being left home for Germany.

00:50:34 Bill is not tanking,

00:50:35 which is really the essence of this question,

00:50:37 and it's just been pointed at the secondary.

00:50:39 So no, they'll fill out the roster.

00:50:41 They claimed to Michael Hasey recently.

00:50:43 He's still gonna plot along and try to get as many wins

00:50:46 so he can get closer to Shula

00:50:47 and just salvage whatever he can from the season.

00:50:49 - Yeah, I mean, I think Bill mentioned it earlier this week.

00:50:55 Like, he plays the guys who deserve to play,

00:50:57 and that comes with some ire from the fan base.

00:51:00 I certainly understand that.

00:51:02 Benching guys like JC Jackson and Jack Jones

00:51:06 wasn't a popular move from what I saw on Twitter,

00:51:09 but those guys haven't necessarily shown up,

00:51:13 and it's, I think, since been proven

00:51:15 with the release of Jack Jones,

00:51:17 and they weren't playing all that well.

00:51:19 And I understand there's some criticism

00:51:22 of the guys that they played over them,

00:51:25 but Belichick has always looked,

00:51:27 and I'm not defending it.

00:51:28 I'm just defending the pattern of decisions here.

00:51:31 If somebody is giving you 100% in practice,

00:51:34 if they're not as talented as the quote-unquote starter,

00:51:37 like, more often than not,

00:51:38 they're gonna find their way on the field,

00:51:39 and I think that's just a backdoor way of me answering.

00:51:43 Like, first of all,

00:51:45 there's nobody on the open market right now

00:51:47 who's gonna come in and make this team much better.

00:51:50 If they are, they're not signing with the Patriots.

00:51:52 They're going to a team

00:51:52 that has a chance to win in the playoffs.

00:51:54 So I think it's gonna be the young guys,

00:51:55 whoever's in house.

00:51:57 If there's a tank mentality,

00:52:00 which would be totally off the grid for Belichick,

00:52:03 I mean, it's gonna come

00:52:04 with whatever the quarterback decision's gonna be,

00:52:06 and I wouldn't be surprised.

00:52:08 Like, I shouldn't say I wouldn't be surprised.

00:52:10 I could see a scenario,

00:52:12 however much of a long shot this is,

00:52:14 where Belichick says to Robert Kraft,

00:52:18 "You're getting a top two pick.

00:52:20 You're gonna get Caleb Williams or Drake May.

00:52:23 Let me see this thing through for one more year."

00:52:26 And I could see that being the one move

00:52:29 that salvages his job.

00:52:31 I shouldn't say the one move,

00:52:32 but like one scenario, one potential scenario.

00:52:35 That's all I got there.

00:52:37 - All right, moving on.

00:52:39 This is from Adam.

00:52:40 I think it was Adam,

00:52:41 the first two words of the question are,

00:52:43 Adam Peters as a general manager.

00:52:45 What do you think of him as a general manager?

00:52:47 Adam Peters, currently the assistant general manager

00:52:49 of the 49ers.

00:52:51 Could he work with Mayo if Mayo was the head coach?

00:52:53 He has worked in New England before,

00:52:56 but has outside experience

00:52:57 and regarded as one of the best talent identifiers,

00:53:00 usually you say evaluators, in the league.

00:53:02 San Francisco has had some great drafts.

00:53:04 So I asked you about this off air

00:53:07 because I was not too familiar with Adam Peters' work.

00:53:10 He started front office work in Denver,

00:53:13 where he actually overlapped briefly

00:53:14 with Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler

00:53:16 when Ziegler was way low

00:53:18 in the totem pole in the front office,

00:53:19 Josh was the head coach.

00:53:20 That's a long time ago.

00:53:22 But if a guy is looking for his first GM job,

00:53:25 what do you think?

00:53:28 - Very highly regarded.

00:53:29 And I think it's a virtual lock

00:53:31 that he'll be a GM at some point in the very near future.

00:53:34 I think he's gonna be on the short list of candidates

00:53:36 this off season on this hiring cycle.

00:53:39 I wrote down a bunch of names

00:53:42 as candidates as outside caliber guys.

00:53:46 The first one I'm gonna give you is a complete long shot.

00:53:48 I don't think it's realistic,

00:53:49 but I think Will McClay with the Cowboys

00:53:52 is the architect of that roster.

00:53:54 And I don't think Will McClay wants to leave Dallas.

00:53:57 And I know Jerry Jones doesn't want Will McClay

00:54:00 to leave Dallas.

00:54:01 So this is an extreme long shot,

00:54:03 but Will McClay's eye for talent,

00:54:05 his track record in assembling that Dallas roster

00:54:09 is really, really highly regarded among his peers

00:54:13 in that organization.

00:54:14 And the reason I bring him up,

00:54:15 even though he's a huge long shot,

00:54:17 if you're Robert Kraft and you wanna go get the best

00:54:19 and you've got a blank check,

00:54:20 you give it to Will McClay.

00:54:22 And again, sort of like with Dion,

00:54:25 give him the opportunity to say no,

00:54:27 but bring him in and see if that's somebody

00:54:28 who's attainable.

00:54:30 Jerry Jones might come at you with a check

00:54:32 that has an extra zero and it might not work,

00:54:34 but that's the guy right there.

00:54:36 - A lot of Johnny Walker blue.

00:54:37 Yeah, go on.

00:54:38 (laughing)

00:54:40 - Jeff Ireland is a guy that I've heard for a couple of years

00:54:43 is getting very close to coming back.

00:54:45 And I think there's a connection with him.

00:54:47 He was, he overlapped with the Saints with Frank Smith

00:54:51 when he was a position coach under Sean Payton.

00:54:54 So I could see them being a package deal

00:54:56 at wherever they wind up.

00:54:57 I don't know if that's gonna be the case,

00:54:59 but I think that'd be a good one.

00:55:01 Then it's crazy, it's wild.

00:55:05 It's like how quickly things can change

00:55:07 in the NFL landscape.

00:55:08 Five years ago, this topic would be,

00:55:10 it would blow everybody's mind.

00:55:11 The fact that we're even talking about this

00:55:13 with the Patriots.

00:55:14 Now you wanna roll it over and I'm gonna sit here

00:55:16 and say that you need to start learning from the Lions.

00:55:19 You look at Mike Dissner, who is the COO,

00:55:23 I think the COO with the Lions.

00:55:25 And is a guy who has more of a Howie Roseman style

00:55:28 background, was a contract negotiator, a cap guy,

00:55:31 not necessarily like a scouting type of front office guy,

00:55:35 but that was Roseman's background.

00:55:38 Not gonna sit here and say that because Roseman did it,

00:55:40 you're gonna get a rock solid GM with Dissner,

00:55:43 just like you're not gonna get a sixth round quarterback

00:55:46 and turn him into Tom Brady.

00:55:47 But a little more off the grid.

00:55:50 You wanna get more on the grid, go to Ray Agnew,

00:55:52 who's their assistant GM.

00:55:53 Agnew is a former Patriots player.

00:55:56 See what he has learned from Brad Holmes

00:55:58 during their years together in Detroit with the Rams.

00:56:01 So those are the Lions package that you'd be interviewing.

00:56:05 Now you go to Philly,

00:56:06 you look at Roseman's two assistant GMs,

00:56:09 John Ferrari and Alec Halliby, Harvard grad.

00:56:12 You look at, I mean, that's the best run

00:56:14 front office right now in the league,

00:56:15 and it might not even be all that close.

00:56:18 You wanna see if you can get one of Howie Roseman's guys.

00:56:20 It's time for the league to start poaching

00:56:22 some of that talent in that front office.

00:56:24 They lost their coaching staff last year under Sirianni.

00:56:27 Roseman might start losing some of his top lieutenants.

00:56:30 Nolan Teasley is the assistant GM in Seattle.

00:56:33 A guy who is an up and comer.

00:56:37 I don't know if this is gonna be the year

00:56:39 that he starts getting GM interviews,

00:56:41 but that's a very well orchestrated Seattle roster.

00:56:45 Dan Morgan with Carolina,

00:56:47 Adrian Wilson with the Cardinals.

00:56:50 Two guys who are very highly regarded among their peers.

00:56:53 I feel like I keep saying that phrase,

00:56:56 but the other part of that is,

00:56:58 I've spoken to people in similar positions in the past,

00:57:02 guys who might be a year or two away

00:57:04 from getting these GM interviews.

00:57:06 They're working with teams

00:57:07 that maybe the record isn't that good,

00:57:09 but they're coming off of some good drafts.

00:57:11 And it's like, hey, why haven't you gotten a chance

00:57:13 to interview for a GM job?

00:57:15 Why aren't you one of these shortlist candidates?

00:57:17 And they're pretty frank about it.

00:57:19 It's like, okay, yeah, you know what?

00:57:20 We have drafted well the last two years,

00:57:23 but our record is eight and whatever

00:57:26 gets you to the final, eight and whatever

00:57:29 in the last two years.

00:57:30 And that's a hard sell to a fan base.

00:57:32 So, you bring, like I've mentioned,

00:57:35 like Dan Morgan and Adrian Wilson,

00:57:36 two guys who are very highly thought of,

00:57:39 but like it might be a harder sell

00:57:42 because the record in Carolina this year,

00:57:45 Arizona this year,

00:57:46 are gonna be kind of tough to sell for

00:57:47 in order to a fan base.

00:57:49 - Right.

00:57:49 I love that.

00:57:50 That was a ton of great information,

00:57:52 places all around the league,

00:57:53 a lot of names that I had not heard of,

00:57:54 frankly, and I haven't done a ton of research,

00:57:56 but I think for people who are already looking on 2024,

00:57:59 Lord knows you've got a lot of time still to do that.

00:58:02 That's a good place to start

00:58:03 and find out more about their background

00:58:05 and those connections.

00:58:05 Adrian Wilson, also Patriots legend.

00:58:07 So there you go.

00:58:08 - Yeah, absolutely.

00:58:09 - Three more.

00:58:10 Jason is asking,

00:58:11 given the lack of offensive weapons,

00:58:13 should they re-sign Trent Brown and Michael Winnow

00:58:15 and focus on skill positions in the draft?

00:58:17 After the first two tackles,

00:58:19 it seems to be a huge drop off.

00:58:20 So, it sounds to me like there's a lot of assumption

00:58:23 baked into this question,

00:58:24 in which we already know, you know,

00:58:26 what the quality of the offensive tackle class is.

00:58:28 We mentioned a couple of those guys

00:58:30 and maybe there's a drop off,

00:58:31 but like generational prospects down to, you know,

00:58:34 certifiable day one starters, it's not bad.

00:58:37 There's still, I'm not saying I know exactly

00:58:39 what the rest of the draft cast looks like,

00:58:40 but I don't think you have to take an either or approach.

00:58:42 And you'd rather have some veterans in the room

00:58:45 at both spots who are more known commodities

00:58:48 and also just to bring up your younger prospects.

00:58:49 But there's no question, you know,

00:58:51 the Patriots need an upgrade receiver,

00:58:54 an offensive tackle.

00:58:55 And you don't really have any young prospects

00:58:57 in the pipeline in either position that you can count on,

00:58:59 because if you want to call Taekwon Thorne a bust,

00:59:01 at least in this system and scenario,

00:59:03 it's about fine by me in middle of year two right now.

00:59:06 So, if he's off the board,

00:59:08 Kehshawn Booty had one catch

00:59:09 and played something like 30 snaps against the Colts,

00:59:11 that's fine too.

00:59:12 But I would just say, why not both?

00:59:14 - Yeah, I mean, even, you know,

00:59:18 let's say you wind up with a fifth or sixth pick

00:59:20 and you want Brock Bowers.

00:59:22 I mean, that's, somebody described him to me

00:59:25 as a TJ Hawkinson type of player

00:59:27 and is an extremely safe prospect.

00:59:30 I mean, somebody who checks every single box that you want.

00:59:33 And, you know, you can argue the positional value

00:59:37 of a tight end in the top 10.

00:59:39 And I certainly get that.

00:59:40 But I mean, the Patriots are getting,

00:59:44 in this draft, regardless of how the next seven play out,

00:59:48 they're in the best player available spot.

00:59:51 I mean, you can't really be choosy.

00:59:52 I mean, if it's, if the tie goes to the runner,

00:59:55 you go to the offensive side of the ball, I think.

00:59:57 But they need to just, they need good players.

01:00:00 - That's a good take.

01:00:03 They need good players.

01:00:04 All right, burnt ships.

01:00:07 So ships that have burned and are still ships.

01:00:10 Are Steve Wilkes and Brian Flores

01:00:11 good interview candidates to replace Belichick?

01:00:13 Both seem to have buy-in from their teams,

01:00:15 but were fired for other reasons.

01:00:16 And Kraft likes to hire coaches

01:00:18 who have been head coaches before.

01:00:20 So again, more assumption baked in this question

01:00:23 that I'm comfortable with.

01:00:24 But I think the two candidates were names

01:00:26 that we did not raise earlier.

01:00:27 So it's worth exploring.

01:00:28 Brian Flores and Steve Wilkes.

01:00:30 Wilkes now is a 49ers defensive coordinator.

01:00:32 They've had some issues though,

01:00:33 as far as the scheme changes.

01:00:35 Blitzing a little bit more

01:00:36 and changing what was very successful under D'Amico Ryan's

01:00:39 and before that Robert Salas.

01:00:40 So I guess my short answer is no one Wilkes,

01:00:42 even if he got screwed, is the interim guy in Carolina.

01:00:45 And I think for a year or two in Arizona,

01:00:47 if I'm remembering right.

01:00:49 And then Brian Flores, rough tenure, I think in Miami.

01:00:54 But I would be more open to him than Wilkes, I think.

01:00:57 - I think if you're gonna stick with the Belichick tree,

01:01:00 you've already got Gerard Mayo in house.

01:01:02 So I don't think you would go to Flores in that scenario,

01:01:06 just because I don't see how you divert from Mayo,

01:01:11 if that's what you're looking for.

01:01:13 Wilkes, everywhere he goes, man,

01:01:15 like the organization loves him.

01:01:17 And somebody who, you know, people who have interviewed him

01:01:21 say that he absolutely has what it takes to be a head coach.

01:01:25 You could certainly sit here and argue

01:01:27 that he got screwed in Carolina and Arizona, absolutely.

01:01:30 I mean, if you're looking for head coaching retreads

01:01:34 or guys who have had that one opportunity before,

01:01:37 you know, you look at Dan Quinn,

01:01:38 there've been a couple others, of course,

01:01:42 they're slipping my mind along with Roman Pfeiffer here.

01:01:45 - It's all right, it's late in the pod, we're almost done.

01:01:47 - Yeah, but no, I mean, those are highly regarded guys.

01:01:50 Jim Caldwell is another one.

01:01:52 I mean, if Jim Caldwell truly wants to be a head coach,

01:01:55 he interviewed last year in Carolina,

01:01:57 that guy, he had a good run in Detroit

01:02:01 and it really gets overlooked.

01:02:04 So, you know, there's certainly some talent out there

01:02:07 if you can't get that under 40, under 45,

01:02:11 up and comer, first time head coaching type of player,

01:02:14 or type of coach that people have been looking for

01:02:17 in the post McVay, post Shanahan world.

01:02:21 Yeah, there are certainly some veteran guys out there

01:02:23 who are attractive candidates.

01:02:24 - Cool, I like it.

01:02:26 As we said, reference Tom Palacero's full directory

01:02:28 of the NFL coaching staffs across the league.

01:02:31 I don't mean to keep making fun of it.

01:02:32 It takes a lot of work to put together

01:02:33 and he is very well connected and a great reporter,

01:02:36 but the list is long.

01:02:38 Last question.

01:02:39 This is a timeless question.

01:02:42 Many people have been asking this question,

01:02:44 many, many people, since, I don't know,

01:02:47 like the middle of the dynasty.

01:02:49 Do you have any guess what this question is going to be?

01:02:51 It's about their, I'll use the word evaluation.

01:02:55 - And something about wide receivers?

01:03:00 - Yes, that is exactly it.

01:03:03 I've been, Fuad is asking,

01:03:04 I've been trying to think why the Patriots evaluation

01:03:06 process at the skill positions in particular

01:03:09 have been quote abysmal, end quote, for such a long time.

01:03:13 Why can't they evaluate offensive weapons?

01:03:17 Jeff, you've had a lot of time to think of this question,

01:03:19 dating back to your days on the Patriots beat.

01:03:22 The people want to know what the hell is the problem.

01:03:26 - It's, man, if I knew, I mean, if anybody knew,

01:03:32 I think they'd have a job down at one Patriot place.

01:03:35 I mean, I do remember speaking to somebody a while back

01:03:40 about this and they didn't have any firsthand knowledge

01:03:43 with the Patriots, but they were like, look,

01:03:44 I was with an organization and I forget what position,

01:03:47 it might've been like cornerback or something like that.

01:03:48 And he was like, look, for like seven, eight years,

01:03:51 we tried drafting cornerbacks and we just, we had,

01:03:54 it was a blind spot for us.

01:03:55 We couldn't get the right player at that position.

01:03:57 We just kept swinging and we went, oh, for whatever.

01:04:01 And I mean, there's, you could go case by case

01:04:06 for a lot of, yeah, it's just, you know,

01:04:11 Malcolm Mitchell helped him win a Superbowl,

01:04:12 but like that's, you got one year out of him.

01:04:16 Was that really like, you didn't spend a fourth round pick

01:04:18 on that guy to come up on,

01:04:20 it's a hell of a game to come up in.

01:04:22 But you know, the amount of guys that they've passed over,

01:04:25 I mean, missing A.J. Brown and D.K. Metcalf

01:04:30 and D.O. Samuel on the same board.

01:04:33 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:34 - Yeah, I mean, just, it's not like the players

01:04:37 haven't been on the, like, it goes back to '06

01:04:42 when they took Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings.

01:04:46 - We're doing the case by case thing now.

01:04:48 - But like this, you're right.

01:04:52 The person who asked the question is right.

01:04:54 This has been going on for a very, very long time.

01:04:57 - Yeah, I think, like you said,

01:04:59 every organization has their blind spots.

01:05:01 That just happens in New England.

01:05:03 It's about wide receivers.

01:05:04 I think there's some bad luck involved.

01:05:06 I think it's also the difficulty of working with Tom Brady

01:05:08 for all those years as a rookie receiver

01:05:10 and guys who have been more experienced

01:05:12 during the offense longer earned distrust.

01:05:14 And that doesn't leave a whole lot of snaps.

01:05:16 Now, the players that they did give a chance

01:05:18 to work with Brady, especially in the end,

01:05:19 like Nikhil Hari, they just, I think,

01:05:22 valued the wrong things.

01:05:23 You know, him as this big ex-receiver

01:05:24 who had his best games against Arizona State's

01:05:26 worst competition, which you're like,

01:05:28 "Hey, that makes sense."

01:05:29 But no, it was, he didn't have a great game

01:05:31 against their best competition.

01:05:32 And it only gets tougher in the league.

01:05:34 And so, whether it's him or Tyquan Thornton,

01:05:37 who, as I said at the time, was like,

01:05:39 breaking up with someone and then seeking

01:05:41 their complete opposite, tall, skinny, long speed,

01:05:44 not big bodied, slow, and supposedly yards

01:05:46 after the catch, which was what we were sold

01:05:48 on Nikhil Hari, like, that's not a good reason

01:05:50 just to find someone new.

01:05:51 You need to find a stable, healthy, like,

01:05:53 you know, good person.

01:05:54 And instead, it was just the complete opposite.

01:05:56 So, I think they waver, they try,

01:05:59 they have some bad luck, and they're just bad at it.

01:06:00 But I think we'll find out.

01:06:01 'Cause I believe I've heard the next

01:06:04 Indiana Jones installment is Indiana Jones

01:06:06 and the reason why the Patriots have not been able

01:06:07 to drive GD-wide receivers for the last 25 years.

01:06:10 So, Indiana is gonna find out,

01:06:12 and we'll just have to find out together

01:06:13 when Harrison Ford finds that at age 80,

01:06:15 whatever that he is right now.

01:06:17 'Cause it is a mystery.

01:06:18 It's up there with wherever the hell the Holy Grail is.

01:06:20 Because no one can figure it out.

01:06:22 Deion Branch was the last good one they drafted,

01:06:24 and DeMario Douglas might be the best since then.

01:06:26 But--

01:06:27 - You know what's gonna happen here, though,

01:06:28 is they're gonna have the third pick next year.

01:06:32 They're either gonna trade down

01:06:33 or bypass Marvin Harrison.

01:06:35 - Oh, stuff.

01:06:36 - Everybody's gonna be pissed off,

01:06:41 and then Belichick is gonna draft a receiver

01:06:43 in the second and third round,

01:06:44 and those two are gonna be the Hall of Famers.

01:06:46 And he's just gonna throw it all back in everybody's face.

01:06:49 - Wow.

01:06:50 - That is--

01:06:51 - Plot twist.

01:06:52 - That is not going to happen.

01:06:54 And if he does, it'll be for another team,

01:06:55 and then it'll be a Patriots curse

01:06:57 and not a Belichick curse.

01:06:58 Which will really sting all the more.

01:07:01 But, man.

01:07:04 Yeah, we started with Marvin Harrison Jr.,

01:07:06 and we're ending with him.

01:07:06 How about that, full circle?

01:07:08 - Perfect way to do it.

01:07:09 - Beautiful.

01:07:10 All right, he is Jeff Howe,

01:07:11 National NFL Insider for the Athletic,

01:07:13 first man to wear a Lowell High sweatshirt

01:07:15 on any kind of podcast, apparently.

01:07:16 Certainly this one,

01:07:17 and if we have another guest who does that again,

01:07:19 it will certainly be Jeff Howe,

01:07:20 who has to come back at some point, right?

01:07:23 - I think this is my third, so.

01:07:24 - Excellent.

01:07:25 - Might as well put it in the books for number four.

01:07:27 - Well, we'll be there for Ohio State's Pro Day.

01:07:29 I think we'll send you out,

01:07:30 and you can report live as National NFL Insider

01:07:34 Marvin Harrison Jr.'s agent and PR team,

01:07:36 'cause you're off to a great start, buddy.

01:07:38 - Is it conceivable that Marvin Harrison

01:07:40 and Pat Friarmuth go into Canton at the same year?

01:07:43 - Wow.

01:07:43 Well, to be honest with the folks,

01:07:46 I have not heard back from Pat Friarmuth

01:07:48 since writing a story about him four years ago.

01:07:51 Pretty much since I wrote the story.

01:07:53 So if they do go in at the same time,

01:07:56 I'm not gonna be presenting him,

01:07:57 because he has not responded to my texts.

01:07:58 And you know what, that's fine.

01:08:00 Not the first person to do that.

01:08:01 Thank you, sir.

01:08:04 - Yeah, of course, thank you.

01:08:05 (dramatic music)

01:08:08 (dramatic music)

01:08:11 (dramatic music)

01:08:13 [BLANK_AUDIO]

The Patriots Next Coach & GM candidates w/ Jeff Howe | Pats Interference

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