- 2 years ago
In this edition of Brussels, my love?, we discuss rumours to keep the financial sector out of corporate sustainability regulations and examine the EU’s proposals to combat child abuse online.
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00:00 Hello there and welcome to Bruxelles, je t'aime, Euronews' weekly talk show, where we zoom
00:18 in on some of the stories in the news this week, hear what's at stake for you and of
00:23 course for Europe. I'm Maeve McMahon, thanks for tuning in.
00:26 Well, coming up this week, countdown to COP28. Not long now until world leaders gather to
00:33 confront major climate questions. But here in Brussels, the business sector is nervous.
00:39 The EU is finalising green finance rules that would make companies responsible for their
00:44 environmental impact and human rights. With the European economies still jittery, we're
00:49 looking at Europe's challenge to stay competitive whilst protecting the planet and of course
00:54 workers' rights. And MEPs backed a draft EU law this week that would combat online child
01:00 abuse. The new rules that will be put to a vote in the European Parliament soon will
01:05 determine when and how the web can be scanned for child sexual abuse materials. With reports
01:11 from the Council of Europe that one in five children are targeted online, we're asking
01:16 if the European Union can find the balance between protecting our children without infringing
01:21 on our privacy. A warm welcome to our guests this week. Elizabeth Kuiper, Associate Director
01:27 with the European Policy Centre. Thanks for having me.
01:30 Great to see you. Michiel Hoogheven, Dutch MEP with the European Conservatives and Reformists.
01:34 Good to be here. And Isabel Schuman, the Deputy Secretary-General
01:38 of ETUC, that's the European Trade Union Confederation.
01:41 Thanks for having me too. Lovely to see you all. Thank you so much for
01:43 being here. But just before we hear your views, let's just remind our viewers what exactly
01:48 EU ambassadors have been chewing over this week.
01:54 Respect the planet and human rights when scaling up. The European Commission's message to big
01:58 business is EU capital's more new due diligence regulations.
02:05 Companies with over 500 employees could soon be obliged to uphold environmental protection
02:10 measures and labour rights. Victims would even be able to take companies to court. NGOs
02:15 welcome the move as a step towards a fairer economy and a better growth model. Critics,
02:22 however, warn that the rules could kill Europe's competitiveness. With politicians on edge
02:27 ahead of European parliamentary elections next year, we ask if the EU will ever manage
02:32 to balance social responsibility with economic growth.
02:37 Now, this draft corporate sustainability due diligence directive was put forward by the
02:44 Commission back in February 2020. Next week, there'll be trilogues in Strasbourg. The aim,
02:50 of course, is to get it done before the elections. Elizabeth, perhaps we start with you. Have
02:54 you been following this directive and what is your take on it?
02:57 Well, absolutely. I think everyone in Brussels have to follow this directive. I think it's
03:01 very, very important also in the geopolitical context that we're dealing in. And I think
03:05 in that respect, we don't have a choice but to make it a reality. And I know that from
03:10 a business perspective, there have been a lot of opinions as to whether or not this
03:14 regulation is leading to too much red tape and to what extent it's good for Europe's
03:19 competitiveness. But I would argue that we don't have a choice and also that businesses
03:22 don't have a choice because we already see that climate change is impacting their business.
03:27 It's leading to a loss of crops. It's leading to, we have all seen the floods and the wildfires.
03:32 And we have seen, for example, in Italy, the hailstorms where you even hear that in terms
03:36 of insurance, it's affect how business operate. So I think we have to make it a reality. And
03:41 also from a global perspective, we need to ensure that this is not just a European approach,
03:46 but also really more following a global agenda because the EU needs to get other parts of
03:51 the world behind in order indeed for companies to have a global level playing field.
03:55 Well, especially if the EU wants to go to COP28 in Dubai in just a couple of weeks and
03:59 preach that it is actually implementing what it's preaching on the global stage. But Michiel,
04:04 as a politician there, would you agree what Elizabeth Kuiper says there is that you do
04:08 not have a choice?
04:09 Well, I've been in Europe for the European Union for some years now. And what I really
04:13 see in these institutions is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And
04:19 that is, I mean, the initial goals of these kinds of regulation is indeed to create a
04:23 more just, sustainable, friendly world. But the consequences are for businesses to take.
04:29 And if I see what a barrage of rules and regulation has been coming from Brussels to our businesses,
04:35 to our corporate sectors, on audits, on finance, on fiscal policies, on climate policies, gender
04:42 policies, equal work, equal pay, it all has to do with compliance. It all has to, businesses
04:48 have to comply with these rules and regulations. They have to report, they have to hire consultants,
04:55 they have to hire audit firms, they have to hire law firms.
04:58 And that's why you're calling it the road to hell. Well, let's hear from ETUC's perspective
05:02 here, the trade union's perspective. I think, Isabelle, you've been following this directive
05:06 for many years.
05:07 Yeah, we've been very much engaged in the whole discussions on the corporate sustainability
05:11 due diligence, which should have been a responsible business conduct on human rights, the very
05:17 first title. And I think we are very much on board to make sure that this initiative
05:22 delivers, hopefully at the end of this year, in terms of having sustainable business and
05:27 fair competition around, indeed, the respect of human rights, the respect of the environment
05:33 and the respect of people on this planet.
05:35 Well, look, everyone has a view on it, and it certainly caused a stir here in Brussels
05:40 as well. And this week, protesters inflated a gigantic Lady Justice in the European Quarter
05:46 to draw attention to the high stakes around these negotiations. Civil society, environmental
05:52 groups and NGOs have been waiting for this for many, many years. Did anyone catch a glimpse
05:56 of Lady Justice there? She's been on tour. She's been in seven different European countries,
06:01 I believe, and Brussels was her last place to be. Did you catch a glimpse of her?
06:05 I saw her, and I think it's really good. And I hope that she continues to be touring, because
06:09 I think it is really important that people, indeed, get to terms and also learn about
06:13 the challenges at stake. And in that respect, it's really interesting what Michiel just
06:17 brought up. I think the big issue here is that sustainability is often dealt with in
06:21 silos. And that's, indeed, why you have a lot of different indicators and scoreboards.
06:26 And I think, indeed, if we go to an approach that is much more holistic in nature, we at
06:30 the European Policy Centre, indeed, say we need to go to a well-being approach, where
06:34 you don't also and only measure, for example, GDP when it comes to economic progression.
06:39 But you also need to take into account health and environment, labour conditions, everything
06:44 the need that the regulation is speaking about. And I think then, if you have a much more
06:48 of a holistic understanding, it hopefully also leads to a much easier way of measuring
06:53 what you want to see in terms of outcomes. Well, that's a whole other debate, I mean.
06:56 And we saw this week the economic forecast for autumn was presented as well by the European
07:01 Commission. The Commission's still very much looking into its figures based on GDP to reflect
07:06 how the economy is doing. But, Isabel, as I said, you were among those protesters from
07:11 ETOQ, and there was a lot of other actives there. And I wanted to ask them what exactly
07:14 they hope to achieve with this Lady Justice. Let's just take a listen.
07:18 We're here because Lady Justice could be stabbed in the back by the Council today. If the financial
07:24 sector is not included under obligation to do due diligence on their investments, and
07:28 if corporations don't have to cut their carbon emissions, then Lady Justice is stabbed in
07:33 the back. That means on the ground is that corporations continue to emit while everyone
07:37 else suffers the consequences.
07:39 Because the financial sector is so prescriptive for the economy, including on climate, they
07:44 are one of the primary financiers of the fossil fuel industry. They are essentially bankrolling
07:50 the climate crisis today.
07:52 So NGOs and environmental groups, they're furious that a number of EU countries want
07:56 to exclude financial services from the directive. You were nodding along with what you heard
08:01 there. What more can you tell us on that?
08:03 Yeah, of course, I think it's not just excluding the finance sector. It's, of course, taking
08:08 aside the responsibility of businesses, the accountability of businesses when looking
08:13 into downgrading the issue of civil liability of businesses. It's also looking into the
08:18 issue of allowing business to do business, exploiting workers, exploiting the planet,
08:25 exploiting the communities around the operations of businesses. And it is not acceptable. This
08:31 is not a sustainable business model. This is not what we want in Europe for more social
08:35 justice. And exactly that was the message of these demonstrations. Justice has to be
08:41 part of what businesses have to respect. And there is no business outside legal legislation.
08:49 So I think here, Europe is showing the way forward. And I think this is important that
08:54 on the basis of existing national legislation in France, in Germany, we have the possibility
09:00 to bring this up to Europe and to indeed build on those, I would say, baseline and to provide
09:07 even more for Europe so that Europe shows the way forward what should be sustainable
09:12 business and a sustainable economy.
09:14 Michiel, you used to work in the bank, right? So you know exactly what it's like to work
09:19 in the bank and to make money. And would you agree with these reports that the NGOs have
09:24 been presenting, saying that the world's biggest fossil fuel extraction projects are operated
09:29 and funded, in fact, by many banks, many French banks?
09:31 What I really miss in this discussion is what it means for the entrepreneurs on the ground.
09:37 These kinds of regulations that they need to comply to, that they need to hire consultants.
09:41 I was with a cheese maker in the Netherlands, so a very, very typical company. It only had
09:46 like 50 employees. And he was really telling me in desperation, I have to spend 50,000
09:54 euros a year just to comply with reporting from rules and regulations coming towards
10:00 me.
10:01 The European Commission once promised a one-in-one-out principle. So one rule or regulation comes
10:06 in, one goes out. They haven't adhered to this. We are destroying our small and medium-sized
10:12 business sectors. And by also targeting the financial sector, I mean the big, big evil
10:17 financial sector, these are the main financiers of small and medium-sized businesses. So we
10:21 should be very careful by throwing these kinds of rules and regulations to our businesses.
10:28 Quick reaction from you, because obviously this week in Brussels a lot of people have
10:32 been reporting and speaking about the fact that the financial sector could be left out.
10:35 What's your take?
10:36 Well, I think we see in the financial sector that that discussion is taking place and that
10:39 also there indeed priorities are being widened and broadened up. And I think we also know
10:43 that banks indeed are doing projects, also taking into account climate change. And I
10:47 think that is very important because we have to shift our mindset when it comes to investments.
10:51 And again, taking into account climate, but also more social factors such as employment.
10:56 I mean, we're living in what we call the twin digital and green transition. I think a lot
11:00 of people, and I think also in Esmé, indeed face the fact that they're faced with a lot
11:04 of different skills that are needed. So we need upskilling and reskilling. And oftentimes
11:09 and classically, I think as a banker, you know that these are seen as costs. We need
11:13 to see them as investment in future generations of people and the planet.
11:18 And the European Central Bank for their part weren't too happy about that. They said there
11:21 could be penalties for companies who do not comply. But Michiel, you said what was missing
11:26 from our discussion today was the element of how business is feeling all across Europe.
11:31 But we did check in with business because I don't know if you noticed, but this week,
11:35 700 business representatives from all across the continent and beyond were here in Brussels.
11:40 They were in the European Parliament. In fact, they took over the chamber. The event was
11:43 called the European Parliament of Enterprises. It was run by Eurochambers. So Eurochambers,
11:49 and they're the eyes and ears, of course, of business all across the continent. They're
11:53 presided by the Czech economist Vladimir Dluhy. And of course, Michiel, I was curious to hear
11:58 his perspective as well on this directive. So let's take a listen.
12:02 To put it simply, we are afraid of it. There is no doubt. If I talk to the German, Spanish,
12:07 Czech entrepreneur, they say, what does it mean? Does it mean that when I import something
12:12 from, I don't know, from outside European Union, from the Arab country, and then there
12:19 is a sub supplier from China, and the Chinese sub supplier has somebody from Indonesia,
12:25 will I be responsible for the whole supply chain? That I might be even made criminal
12:30 liable in my country within European Union? That a fourth sub supplier is violating the
12:37 rules? We are shooting ourselves into our own foot with this type of not properly prepared
12:43 regulations.
12:44 So Vladimir Dluhy there saying he's afraid of the directive. He's worried that the EU
12:48 is shooting itself in the foot. Perhaps as you've been studying this directive for many
12:53 years, you know, give him some clarity there on how supply chains will work and how, what
12:59 message he will have to communicate really to his representatives over in Germany and
13:02 Spain who do not understand how this directive will work.
13:04 I think instead of having fear, I think we should be very proud of having such a directive.
13:09 And I don't really get the message we don't know our suppliers. I think every spare part
13:14 produced outside the European Union, or even inside by suppliers are known. And even there
13:21 is a control, a quality control of every spare part of a product, a car for example. And
13:28 this is known by any employers that this quality control takes place. So if you can't do that,
13:35 how far your supplier is, why can't you do that for working conditions of this exactly
13:41 spare part of a product or a services? And I think here this is where the message does
13:47 not fit really with the situations in practice. We can very well know how a product is produced.
13:54 And here this is a responsibility of businesses to be well aware that if you exploit people
14:00 to produce cheaper product, this is not acceptable anymore. And this is a clear message we have
14:06 to send.
14:07 So should we then as consumers get ready to pay more perhaps for our products? IKEA, for
14:11 example, is one of the members of Eurochambre.
14:14 Well, I think that's indeed a fair db to have. And that's why it's so important to educate
14:18 people so that they become aware why it's so important, especially in a world where
14:21 we have seen and still see that indeed we are dependent on other parts of the world,
14:25 which leads also to unwanted consequences. And also the fact that indeed, and I think
14:29 I made a point earlier, a green Europe only makes sense in a decarbonizing world. Because
14:34 it's a fair point that we oftentimes say that SMEs are the backbone of the European economy.
14:38 But then indeed also for SMEs, it means that indeed if they export to other parts of the
14:42 world, they should not indeed be hampered by red tape because of the fact that other
14:47 parts of the world are lagging behind. And that's why indeed the European Union also
14:51 needs to make it a global effort to work on the green agenda, because otherwise there's
14:54 imbalances. And that is something that needs to be avoided.
14:58 And Michiel, I saw this week the European Roundtable. So CEOs from Mercedes, L'Oreal,
15:03 Heineken, also putting out a statement saying that they're feeling pessimistic, saying that
15:07 they're pessimistic about the short term recovery in Europe, that complex, quote, incoherent
15:12 regulation is a risk to EU's competitiveness. But as Elizabeth Quipper pointed out earlier,
15:17 there's so much at stake for the climate. We're on our way into these talks at COP28.
15:21 I mean, how can you find a balance? It's the question I feel we're asking every week between
15:25 making sure this continent is competitive, but also fulfilling obligations to protect
15:30 the planet and people.
15:31 Well, I'm not just worried about the climate, but also on our investment climate, our business
15:35 climate. And I think the representative said it very well, that businesses feel afraid.
15:40 They feel afraid because they are basically treated as a danger unless proven otherwise.
15:47 I work on the forced labor ban. Of course, nobody is in favor of importing products that
15:53 have been made by the hands of forced labor. Nobody's in favor of that. And also businesses
15:58 are not in favor of that. But now we are starting to treat businesses as guilty until proven
16:04 otherwise. And not only that, it will also cost, and I think your question was very much
16:10 correct there, this will also increase prices of products. We're already facing inflation.
16:15 I mean, for the middle class, this is really something that will add up to the cost of
16:20 living again.
16:21 So time is a brief comment?
16:23 Yeah, well, very briefly, because I mean, it's true, but on the other hand, consumers
16:26 also want to have more transparency. They want to know more. For example, a very simple
16:29 example, if you buy your clothes, you want to know where they're made, if they're made
16:33 sustainable. And at least you want to have a choice about what you're buying. And if
16:37 you just don't know, because there's no information, what can you do? And I think there again,
16:41 it's about education and consumers want to have more transparency. So it's a good thing
16:46 that we should use.
16:47 Well, we'll keep an eye on that next week. As I said, there will be trial logs taking
16:51 place in Strasbourg. So we'll keep you updated. But also just an update on certain trial logs
16:55 that ended just last week on the nature restoration law. Did you follow that? Final text is finally
17:01 on the table, albeit perhaps a little watered down. A lot of flexibility, Michelle. Are
17:06 you in agreement with the final text that was agreed on?
17:08 Well, I think that the nature restoration law has been something that we have been very
17:12 much against. You probably remember the farming protests that we saw in the Netherlands. We
17:16 see a housing crisis in the Netherlands. We see infrastructure is put on hold, building
17:20 infrastructure. And that's not because of the nature restoration law, but because of
17:23 the birds and habitats directive. And the nature restoration law is basically a birds
17:28 and habitat directive on steroids. So we're now facing a nitrogen crisis 2.0 in the Netherlands.
17:35 So this nature restoration law...
17:36 I think we actually...
17:37 While it's diluted a bit, we're still very much against it.
17:39 Still very much against it. What about yourself, Azra?
17:41 No, I think it is a very important achievement in Europe. And I would like to say that businesses
17:47 need to comply. And what we have seen, and this is also one of the basis of the due diligence
17:53 legislation, is actually when you have the possibility to comply with voluntary guidelines,
17:59 the evaluation in Germany before the German law was that only 17% of the businesses that
18:06 were claiming compliance with the guidelines did that. 17%. It's really not acceptable
18:14 that on one side there are guidelines to be complied with and businesses claim that. And
18:19 at the end of the day, when we evaluate that, we see that it's not the reality. And we have
18:26 to move from the voluntary dimensions to what's something which is the level playing field
18:31 for all. And I think this is the basis for fair competition.
18:33 And we've only seen, of course, that binding targets work. But also we've seen over the
18:37 last couple of months just how divisive all these various topics are. On glyphosate as
18:42 well, this week, Elizabeth Kuiper, we saw Member States not able to take a decision
18:46 on whether to extend or not the... allowing glyphosate to be used. So in the end, the
18:53 European Commission had to take the matter into its own hands.
18:56 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think you're referring to the fact that, indeed, initially the French
19:00 president had, indeed, mentioned and committed to, indeed, banning glyphosate. And he came
19:04 back on that decision. And for me, and also coming back to the nature restoration law,
19:08 that's really a sign that, indeed, election time is about to start. Because we all know
19:12 that in June next year we have elections. And whereas some political parties in the
19:16 European Parliament had initially chosen much more of a nuanced approach, I felt already
19:20 before the summer break, when all of this started, that, indeed, the polarization is
19:24 used for political purposes.
19:26 What I really hope, because, again, I feel that we don't have a choice, is, indeed, that
19:30 this wouldn't lead to much more polarization, but hopefully to more collaboration. Because,
19:34 again, we have one planet and we need to preserve it.
19:38 Okay. Thank you so much. We have to stop you there. But we will keep you posted on how
19:42 those talks go on that directive. But stay with us, because after the break, we'll be
19:45 switching gears and talking about how members of the European Parliament hope to combat
19:49 child sex abuse online. See you soon.
19:51 Welcome back to Brussels, my love. I'm Maeve McMahon. And along with Elizabeth Kwiper,
20:06 Michiel Hulcheven and Isabel Schuman, we're taking a look at some of the stories in the
20:10 news this week.
20:11 And one item that caught our attention was a vote in the European Parliament Civil Liberties
20:16 Committee to combat child abuse online. 51 MEPs voted in favor, two against, and just
20:22 one MEP abstained. With online grooming spreading at an alarming rate across Europe, MEPs in
20:28 Strasbourg will need to endorse their final position soon.
20:31 Iverna McGowan, that's the director of the Centre for Democracy and Technology, has been
20:35 following this closely and told me how the dossier was marred in controversy.
20:39 The original draft had unfortunately made provisions to allow law enforcement and social
20:44 media companies to scan everyone's messages, even if you were innocent and had nothing
20:48 to do with the crime, in order to scan some of these photos. What the European Parliament
20:53 Libes Committee has done is that they've introduced really clear limitations and safeguards
20:57 on detection orders, and they have also really made very clear distinction between the EU
21:02 Centre that would be looking into the technical approach in these photos and law enforcement.
21:08 Sometimes there has been a false dichotomy here that it is child protection on one hand,
21:12 privacy on the other. That's actually a dangerous and incorrect narrative, because the most
21:17 vulnerable children are those whose privacy rights also need to be protected.
21:21 Iverna McGowan there from the Centre for Democracy and Technology, but it looks like a more balanced
21:26 draft law was agreed on. Elizabeth, did you follow this?
21:30 Yeah, absolutely, because it's a really important topic, especially given all the dangers of
21:35 the online world that we're living in. I think there's a lot of disinformation and discussion
21:39 on how to tackle it. So indeed, online child abuse is very important. I think the issue
21:44 here is indeed, and I think we saw that, that we need to strike a balance between a proposal
21:49 that perhaps avoids ending up with a sort of surveillance society, where a lot of innocent
21:54 citizens are being targeted, and perhaps also they're missing the goal of online child abuse.
22:00 I think that is very important, indeed, in the final proposal, that we strike that balance
22:03 and that we also perhaps look at other measures on how to effectively tackle online child
22:08 abuse.
22:09 And that's what MEPs want, in fact, that only a judge would be able to order the scanning
22:13 of private communications. Michel?
22:15 Yes, well, I think that the European Parliament did a very good job here. Indeed, the balance
22:20 between on the one hand privacy and on the one hand countering child abusive content,
22:25 which obviously is very important to tackle. But we don't want to end up in a indeed in
22:30 a mass surveillance sphere. And if you, the original text, if I'm correctly, stated that
22:36 it would also be possible even to scan and screen end to end encrypted messages, we also
22:43 have a right of secrecy of correspondence. That's actually in the Human Rights Charter
22:50 of the of the European Union. So I really think that the European Parliament did a very
22:56 good job by balancing this regulation a bit better.
22:59 And of course, this is just the start of the process. It will have to go to what we call
23:03 trial logs again, there'll be discussions with the Member States. And the plan as well,
23:07 Isabel, is to have an EU body based, I think, in The Hague. I've seen that would be in charge
23:12 of this helping EU Member States implement. But do you think we need even an EU law here?
23:17 Because shouldn't it be also local and national governments and authorities that should be
23:21 cracking down even more as we've seen this problem spike in the last few years?
23:25 No, I think this is a very important initiative and a legal one. And I think we also here
23:29 need to have a legal framework, in particular, because it's digital playground is not safe.
23:36 And I think here, we know the damage of child abuse material online. I think we really have
23:44 to stop that. And I think we're a bit late already in terms of legislating. It's very
23:49 important that we take that step. And it's important that also the Member States move
23:53 forward and the European Parliament here again, has managed to strike a balance, a difficult
23:59 one. We understand, of course, we don't have to, we should not go into surveillance, mass
24:04 surveillance. On the other hand, we have to protect the children. And here, a product,
24:11 which is a digital product online, which is not safe. In principle, what we should do
24:17 in their opinion is to apply the precautionary principle. And the precautionary principle
24:23 is to protect the one who is the victim of this product.
24:26 And the statistics are frightening. I've seen two pictures or videos of child sexual abuse
24:31 materials seemingly published online every single second. And META seemingly disabled
24:36 more than 490,000 accounts for violating child safety policies this year alone. But just
24:41 to get the perspective from child rights groups, because they were not actually too pleased,
24:46 Michiel, with this text from the European Parliament. I saw 80 organisations and survivors
24:51 are worried that the regulation could eliminate the ability for platforms to voluntarily detect
24:56 for online child abuse. And for more on what it's like to actually be a survivor of child
25:01 abuse, Euronews' Mariette Jones spoke to Rhiannon Faye MacDonald from the Marie Collins Foundation.
25:06 She was abused when she was just 13 years old.
25:10 After a few hours, they had gained my trust and they, you know, they were complimenting
25:17 me and saying lots of nice things about me. And they convinced me to send some photos
25:23 of myself, which were quite normal. That quickly changed and they asked me for a topless photo.
25:30 They convinced me that it was OK. They used that photo to threaten me and to blackmail
25:36 me. Perpetrator came to my home the following morning, sexually abused me in my bedroom
25:42 and took more photos. And then I didn't speak about this for a very long time. I suffered
25:47 with anxiety, panic attacks daily, depression, self-harm, two suicide attempts.
25:55 Rhiannon Faye MacDonald there, a survivor of abuse and now using her voice very bravely
25:59 to raise awareness. And her demand is clear, detect and remove any content so that she
26:04 can walk around with her head up high and know that she won't be recognised. You can
26:07 see a lot at stake for Rhiannon and other survivors there. It's not an easy file, this
26:12 one.
26:13 No, absolutely. I think we all agree that this is terrible. And again, it has an impact
26:17 for the rest of someone's life. And I think to the point about how and at what level we
26:22 can tackle this, I think it goes beyond the national perspective, because today's world
26:25 is an online world. And for example, at the European Policy Centre, we have been looking
26:29 indeed also on disinformation and what you can do also with platforms involved, perhaps
26:34 with the use of multi-stakeholder coalitions where you also have media experts, but also
26:41 clearly a psychological help. Perhaps also because foresight is very important to see
26:46 what can happen and indeed what scenarios may happen that we can anticipate on. And
26:51 I think there are different ways of looking at it. But clearly, I think a mix of building
26:55 on what the European Parliament has been doing this week, but also coming up in addition
26:59 to that, I think with methods that lead to more education as well, also when it comes
27:03 to parents, because they may not always be aware of what their children are doing and
27:08 where they're ending up with. And I think that element of education is equally important.
27:12 Indeed, Elizabeth Quipper, education, extremely important, but also proper legislation. That's
27:19 what survivor groups want to protect their privacy, which means focusing on detecting
27:23 and also removing content. Well, we'll certainly keep a very close eye on how those votes go
27:28 and see if that text gets the European Parliament's stamp of approval. But I'm afraid that is
27:33 all we have time for on this topic. As I said, we will return to it. Thank you so much for
27:37 watching. See you soon.
27:38 Welcome back to Brussels, my love, Euronews weekend show. I'm Maeve McMahon. Now, one
27:54 story we're watching very closely here takes us next door to the Netherlands, where millions
27:58 of people are getting ready to vote and to go to the polls. After 13 years in power,
28:03 it's the end of an era for the outgoing Prime Minister Mark Rutte, known locally, I believe,
28:07 as Mr. Normal for his simple lifestyle. For more on the nail biting election, here's an
28:12 update from our correspondent in The Hague, Fernanda Van Tets.
28:16 Elections just a few days away here in the Netherlands, with many voters still unsure
28:20 of who to vote for. The issues that have been dominating this election cycle have been the
28:25 housing crisis, as well as health care, the cost of living and inflation and migration.
28:31 Now, there's a record 26 parties running for seats in Parliament, the building just behind
28:36 me. Three parties are looking to come out on top. One is the new social contract, a
28:42 new party started by MP Pieter Omtzigt. He's managing to draw voters from the right and
28:48 the left, as well as new voters. Then we've got Delinje Zilgers, who could become the
28:52 first female Prime Minister of the Netherlands, leading the VVD, the party currently in power,
28:57 the party of Mark Rutte. And then we've got Frans Timmermans, the former Euro Commissioner,
29:02 who's hoping to bring the left back to power for the first time in two decades. So a very
29:07 exciting time ahead. We'll know the results on Wednesday.
29:11 Fernanda Van Tets there. Michiel, is it a very exciting time for you?
29:14 Well, indeed, it's an end of an era, as you said, that Prime Minister Mark Rutte has left.
29:19 So there's a whole new political landscape now. And what we see indeed is that we have
29:23 a consolidation, especially on the left, with Frans Timmermans running to become the next
29:29 Prime Minister. But what's also interesting is that we see that the party of Mark Rutte,
29:34 which used to be a centre-right party, has very much become a centrist party in favour
29:38 of more big government, more power to EU, quite soft on migration. And then we have
29:44 the far right, which was not mentioned, that is Geert Wilders. And there's something in
29:50 between and that's my party. So we're very much in favour of small government, strong
29:54 on migration and strong on the European Union.
29:56 OK, you got your plug out there. Another Dutch lady around the table with us, Elizabeth
30:00 Kripper. What is at stake here for Brussels? Is Brussels keeping a close eye on this election?
30:04 Well, absolutely, as it should, because I think the Netherlands always pride itself
30:08 being the biggest of the smaller member states and the smaller of the biggest member states.
30:12 So it's this crucial position in the middle, as they say. So in that respect, I think what
30:16 will happen in the Netherlands will be picked up in Brussels. On the other hand, I think
30:20 Michiel and I were discussing that to Dutchmen, the EU is not really playing much of a role
30:25 in the campaign. I think also only Pieter Amzigt is mentioning sometimes the need for
30:30 an opt-out on migration. But that's really about it, which is in a way perhaps surprising
30:34 because Frans Timmermans is Mr Europe, but he's perhaps choosing not to be involved in
30:39 that discussion on the EU because he really keeps to more local matters.
30:43 More local. And what about you, Ituk? Are you keeping an eye on those elections?
30:46 Of course, of course. Very important that the democratic forces make the difference
30:50 in these discussions and in these elections. For us, it is important that ahead of these
30:56 elections, it is a clear message that there is no way back to austerity. I think we heard
31:02 that the cost of living is a really important concern of the populations. And of course,
31:10 linked to that, there is the need to be investment in the people and in society, in the planet.
31:15 And I think Frans Timmermans is well placed to make that happen indeed.
31:20 But the question is, is he more popular outside of the Netherlands, Frans Timmermans? I mean,
31:24 he's very known on the global stage, but inside, if he's liked, we will find out on Wednesday.
31:28 But we have a couple of seconds left to go before we wrap up. But just tell us more about
31:32 this new kid on the block, Pieter Amzigt. Can you pronounce?
31:38 He's pretty much an interesting guy. He's a former Christian Democrat, but he's also
31:41 quite critical on the European Union, the expansion of the European Union, the financiering
31:48 of the finance of the European Union. So the euro bonds, common debt, he's very critical
31:53 on that. But on the other hand, he's still very much a Christian Democrat. So still also
31:58 very much in favour of big government, big EU.
32:00 We will keep a very close eye on that. They're happening on Wednesday. Euro News reporters
32:04 will of course be on the ground. So stay tuned for that. But for now, thank you so much to
32:08 our guests, Elizabeth Quipper, Michel Hoekheven and of course, Isabel Schuman. Thank you so
32:13 much for coming, for being with us. And thank you for watching. Any comments on anything
32:17 you have heard today, please reach out. Our email is brusselsmylove@euronews.com. We're
32:23 also on Instagram, on Twitter and LinkedIn. See you soon, though, on Euro News.
32:28 [Music]
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