- 26/10/2023
On this special episode of The Reset Room we are pleased to be joined by Professor Brendon Stubbs an expert in the field of physical activity, mental health and the mind-body interface.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:03 - Hello, I'm Kelly Crichton, and this is the Reset Room.
00:06 We're here once again to give you the tools
00:07 you need to succeed and to answer your questions
00:10 on your journey to fulfillment.
00:12 I'm very pleased to say I'll be joined by an expert
00:15 each week to look at a specific area of personal challenge
00:18 and how best to approach it.
00:19 Today, we're talking about physical actions
00:21 we can take to improve our minds.
00:24 Later in the podcast, we'll hear directly from listeners
00:26 looking for some advice around a challenge they're facing,
00:28 and we'll certainly do whatever we can
00:30 to help them with that.
00:32 If you missed the last episode, you can catch up now.
00:34 Amina Walker and I discussed seasonal affective disorder,
00:38 or SAD, as it's sometimes referred to.
00:41 There was some great practical advice
00:42 for helping to deal with that should it affect you
00:44 with the change in the seasons
00:46 we are experiencing at the moment.
00:48 I'm delighted to say we're coming
00:49 to a small screen near you.
00:51 The Reset Room will be broadcast on Shots TV,
00:53 which is a free view channel, 276.
00:56 Shots is brought to you by a network of journalists
00:58 from across the country who are transforming stories
01:01 at the heart of your community into great TV.
01:04 You'll find true crime stories, football news and analysis,
01:06 plus coverage of lifestyle, TV, film, and much more.
01:11 But back to today, I am very pleased to say
01:13 we have a special guest this week.
01:15 Professor Brendan Stubbs joins me
01:17 to look at this really interesting topic
01:19 that I've wanted to talk about on the podcast for ages.
01:22 Professor Brendan Stubbs is Head of Psychotherapy
01:25 at the South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust
01:29 and Clinical Lecturer at the Institute of Psychiatry,
01:32 Psychology and Neuroscience at King's College, London.
01:36 He's one of the most cited researchers in the world
01:38 and his research has been featured in publications
01:40 like the New York Times, Time Magazine, and Forbes.
01:43 Brendan's research focused on physical activity,
01:45 mental health, and the mind-body interface.
01:49 He and his team have published over 400 academic papers
01:52 and in 2016, he was identified in the journal Nature
01:56 as one of the most productive scientists
01:59 over all disciplines in the world.
02:00 My God, that is an amazing achievement.
02:03 Hi, Brendan, thank you so much for coming on the show.
02:05 We're really pleased to have you here.
02:07 - Thank you so much, Kelly, for having me.
02:10 I'm so pleased to be here to talk with you
02:12 and connect with your listeners.
02:15 - So as I mentioned, this is an area
02:17 that I've been really keen to talk about on the podcast
02:20 'cause we spend so much time focusing
02:22 on our mental development and the positive
02:24 and negative impacts of day-to-day life on that.
02:27 I feel like the physical side of things
02:29 gets neglected somewhat, in our chat, in a way.
02:33 So this is probably somewhat contrary
02:35 to how things have been in the past.
02:36 I realize people probably prioritize their physical health
02:39 over their mental health, but I'd like to start today
02:41 by getting to know a little bit more about you
02:43 and how you ended up working in this fascinating area.
02:46 So if you'd like to tell us a bit about yourself.
02:50 - Sure, Kelly, and perhaps as a good start
02:52 to sort of talk about how, you know,
02:54 society, we often tend to think about the body or the mind,
02:58 and we've not historically been very good
03:00 about connecting those together
03:01 'cause my first degree was physiotherapy.
03:04 So we learned lots about the body.
03:07 We learned lots about the body and what to do when it hurts,
03:10 what to do when you can't move well,
03:11 what to do when you're injured, what to do if you had a stroke
03:14 and all of these sort of physical rehab issues.
03:16 And to be honest, I didn't particularly enjoy it.
03:19 And I didn't really enjoy physiotherapy
03:23 until soon after graduation,
03:24 I ended up working in a mental health psychiatric hospital,
03:27 which was very sort of different.
03:30 We didn't learn much about mental health
03:31 and the mind and psychology.
03:34 And I was just fascinated early on
03:38 by the richness of the people I was working with
03:43 and kind of what the converse of what you described is.
03:46 Well, just to similar, there was a great focus
03:49 on looking at people's mental health,
03:50 but of course everybody has body attached to them.
03:53 And we know quite clearly
03:54 that if your body is not feeling great,
03:56 I mean, in the clearest instance,
03:57 if you're injured or if you're in pain,
03:59 then it clearly affects your mood, your mental health
04:02 and all those other things too.
04:03 And vice versa, if you're not feeling great
04:06 within your mood and mental health,
04:07 and conversely, you get more like physical issues.
04:10 So I was going in as a sort of bright eyed, bushy tailed,
04:13 physical health trained specialist,
04:15 looking at all this area, started getting people moving,
04:18 started getting people outdoors in fresh air,
04:20 not just for like a cigarette break in those days,
04:22 as it often was.
04:24 And saw the power of movement and physical activity
04:27 and exercise as all people sort of light up,
04:29 saw a sense of community where people are having fun
04:32 and just thought, wow, this is really special.
04:34 And my journey kind of started there really.
04:36 - Yeah. Okay, so taking it back then,
04:38 we're going maybe into the annals of history here,
04:41 but what is your understanding of when we first
04:45 began to understand that physical exercise
04:47 was good for mental health?
04:49 I mean, I feel like we've probably known this
04:51 for a very long time, but it's not become sort of popular.
04:53 - No, well, I mean, sort of, you know,
04:56 Plato and other philosophers said, you know,
04:59 sort of, you know, sort of, you know, millennias ago,
05:02 that, you know, that the physical activity
05:04 is good for the mind and the soul as it is for the body.
05:07 - Yeah.
05:08 - You know, and worse to that effect.
05:10 So we've known the philosophy behind this
05:12 for a long, long time.
05:15 But really, you know, in terms of like credibility
05:18 to being accepted within, you know,
05:20 mainstream sort of, you know, treatment approaches,
05:23 psychiatric hospitals, I mean, the approach when I went in
05:25 then started, you know, in long stay psychiatric hospitals
05:27 said, I think it'd be really good to get people moving,
05:29 it'd be beneficial for them.
05:30 People like, you know, the psychiatrists would say,
05:33 why have we got a physiotherapist here?
05:35 - Yeah.
05:36 - And it was just like, the awareness was like, why?
05:38 And I think, you know, we've been on this huge
05:40 sort of credibility exercise to basically provide the data
05:44 and the evidence to show what we've known for a long time,
05:48 that there is really robust science behind physical activity
05:50 and movement for, you know, keeping our, you know,
05:52 protecting our mental health for the treatment
05:54 of mental health conditions and the underpinning
05:56 neuroscience behind it.
05:57 So we've been in this huge period.
05:59 I think this whole popularity is upticked
06:01 by a lot of the increase in the science,
06:03 which has been really fascinating.
06:05 - And do you feel that you're still on that journey?
06:07 Like, is there still a long way to go, I imagine?
06:10 Because it's, I feel like you're saying
06:12 it's only in modern times that it starts to sort of
06:15 infiltrate sort of general medicine, as it were,
06:18 that sort of idea that you need to combine the two.
06:21 - Yeah, well, I think we've made great progress
06:25 as a community in the, you know, if we look at like
06:28 the treatment of depression, for instance,
06:30 in like in the UK, NICE guidelines or other guidelines,
06:34 is we've got as a recommended first line treatment
06:36 as people try, you know, adaptation for lifestyle approaches
06:39 including physical activity and exercise
06:41 and recognition of, you know, the great amount of evidence
06:44 which has come through, particularly in the last 10 years.
06:46 So we're seeing not only the research,
06:48 but this has been transitioned
06:50 into sort of treatment guidelines.
06:52 Now, you know, we've got really enough
06:54 good credible evidence to say, yes, this is good.
06:56 Yes, this works.
06:57 Yes, there's good science behind it.
06:58 Now we need to sort of implement this, you know,
07:02 in sort of in settings really,
07:03 so people know what to do when they have this.
07:06 We could go on for a long period of time looking at,
07:09 is it this area of the brain that's affected?
07:11 Is it that area of the brain that's affected?
07:13 You know, what is the optimal amount?
07:15 Really, we know enough to get going now
07:17 and we really need to try and implement this
07:19 to improve people's lives.
07:20 - So it's going to sort of more general public now,
07:24 you know, this idea that we have known
07:27 for quite a long time that being physically active
07:29 is good for you, but we still find that a lot of people
07:33 just don't do it or we have to really encourage people
07:35 to do it or there's a kind of a battle
07:36 to get people to accept that it's good for them.
07:38 Why do you think that is?
07:41 - It's cruel, isn't it?
07:42 And I don't know if I just sort of like said myself,
07:45 I've written lots of research papers,
07:47 talked all over the world and helped lots of people
07:50 and still so many times myself I experienced that
07:53 and I like haven't exercised or gone for a run
07:56 or done some exercise for a little while
07:57 and I get back into it, I'm like, ah, this is so good.
08:01 I can't believe this.
08:02 It's like I found the magic sauce again.
08:04 So, you know, it's like a cruel sort of, you know,
08:07 sort of conundrum is that, you know,
08:09 we're always, we're all good when we have consistency
08:11 around doing a behavior.
08:13 - Yeah.
08:14 - And, you know, the challenge for doing physical activity
08:18 and exercise is that it requires often some effort
08:21 and if it's not fun, if it's not something you enjoy,
08:24 we all look for the path of least resistance.
08:26 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:28 - We all do that and it really requires
08:30 that sort of additional motivation.
08:31 So it's getting started into that habit,
08:34 which is really important and we often find
08:35 that if people break out of the habit,
08:37 getting back in is really hard.
08:39 So that's why I do it myself or with other people
08:41 is sometimes I just do like 10 minutes
08:44 or sometimes I go to the gym, for instance,
08:45 or go for a run, I do 10 minutes, 15 minutes.
08:48 Really rubbish, not lifting heavy weights,
08:51 not going fast because I'm just keeping the consistency.
08:54 - Yeah.
08:55 - Because I know there's lots of evidence saying
08:56 that once I break that,
08:57 that it's much harder to get back into it.
09:00 - Yeah, for me, I definitely found that the time in my life
09:04 that I was able to just go and exercise easily
09:08 was during COVID because had the time, had the space
09:12 and it just formed a habit, you know?
09:14 And because I did it every single day,
09:17 there was no kind of stopping to think about it.
09:19 Like it literally is a habit.
09:20 Whereas I think if you're not in that sort of flow,
09:23 you get all these reasons,
09:25 you can come up with excuses not to do the thing.
09:26 I don't have time, I don't have energy,
09:28 I don't have daylight, whatever it is.
09:30 But yeah, it's challenging, but it's so worth it really,
09:34 if we can get there.
09:36 - We want to give our listeners some practical advice
09:38 around how physical activity can improve their mental health.
09:41 So can you tell us how physical exercise affects the mind?
09:44 - Yeah, well, historically, we often thought
09:50 that there was this thing called the runner's high.
09:52 And if you often ask people, why does running
09:54 or any exercise make you feel good?
09:57 We often sort of think that it's due to endorphins
10:00 and people may have thought it's an endorphin release.
10:03 And we now know through our work and other people's work
10:06 that when you exercise, you do get the release of endorphins
10:09 but they actually have difficulty on their own
10:12 crossing what we know as a blood brain barrier
10:14 to exert an effect of that sort of uplift of, ah,
10:18 the elation which we feel.
10:19 And we now know that it's much more complex,
10:22 multifactorial, so there's multiple systems
10:25 which are impacted when we engage in exercise
10:27 and physical activity, many more than just saying
10:30 it's due to one molecule or it's due to one part of the brain
10:34 or due to one nervous system.
10:35 Some of the things which we've shown has been
10:38 that if you engage in physical activity and exercise,
10:40 you can get improvements and increases in volume
10:43 or the size of an area of the brain called the hippocampus.
10:46 - Okay. - Really important
10:47 for lots of things, including the consolidation of short
10:51 and to long-term memories, emotional processing areas.
10:55 And you can also sort of light this area up
10:57 in shorter periods of bouts over time.
10:59 So yes, it increases over time, but in the short term,
11:02 you can see increases in electrical activity
11:05 within that brain, which means it's working
11:07 when you're engaging in exercise.
11:09 We've also shown that you can have BDNF release,
11:11 the brain-derived neurotrophic factor,
11:14 which is kind of like your brain's fertilizer,
11:16 just spraying across all over the brain
11:18 and the central nervous system to help new nerve cells
11:21 develop and also connections between each of those.
11:25 We see reductions in inflammatory markers and lots more.
11:28 - Yeah, I was gonna say, there's just so many things
11:30 going on besides that sort of how you feel
11:32 as it were post-exercise, like it's actually
11:35 just really good for your brain in general.
11:38 So what is the opposite then?
11:39 So what happens if we don't exercise?
11:41 Like, is that a compounding problem?
11:44 - Yeah, so we've been interested from sort of like
11:48 an observational research perspective is what happens
11:52 with the sort of society which we've got at the moment?
11:54 Because obviously over the last 50, 20 years particularly,
11:58 we've all gone from pretty active people
12:00 that had to go out and move about to travel,
12:02 to work, to live, to eat, to being quite sedentary
12:06 and a lot of us sitting behind desks and not moving.
12:08 And the area of time of convenience
12:10 has really come upon us.
12:12 Things, you know, we want to eat,
12:13 so it gets delivered to our door, et cetera, et cetera.
12:16 So society's become much more sedentary
12:18 and what we've tended to see is that, you know,
12:21 an association, a relationship between higher levels
12:24 of sedentary behavior, so excessive sitting during the day,
12:28 and poorer mental health in the future.
12:30 But it doesn't determine your risk
12:32 'cause we've also done sort of analyses
12:34 where we substitute sedentary behavior
12:37 with being more active and shown.
12:39 We did another nice study a few years ago
12:41 where we got people who regularly exercised
12:44 and were all healthy and what we did
12:46 is we measured their mental health and their wellbeing
12:48 when they're regularly exercising for a week.
12:50 And then we asked them and they agreed
12:53 to just stop exercising for a week.
12:55 So they just became more sedentary,
12:56 they could go for walks and things like that,
12:57 but they didn't exercise specifically.
12:59 We measured their mental health
13:00 and then again, they re-exercised after a week,
13:03 they started exercising again
13:04 and we continued to measure their mental health.
13:06 And what you see is just within this, you know,
13:08 three week experiment is people's mental health
13:11 was generally very good, people more, you know,
13:13 calm, focused, happy, and then after being sedentary
13:17 for a week, people started to become, you know,
13:19 more irritable, you know, less happy.
13:22 And then, you know, the good thing is
13:24 as soon as you reintroduce exercise,
13:25 people's wellbeing and happiness, confidence
13:28 went back up again.
13:29 So, you know, we see a quite clear relationship
13:31 between sedentary behavior and, you know,
13:33 not such good mental health.
13:34 - And in such a short period of time,
13:37 and I think like just to bring it back
13:39 to like a real life example,
13:40 I know most people, if you've been on holidays
13:42 and you've gotten out of your routine or whatever,
13:44 and then you come back,
13:46 you can be quite like kind of exhausted, you know,
13:48 and sort of sluggish and a bit like,
13:51 oh, back to work, blah, blah, blah.
13:53 And I'm guessing that's all kind of links in, doesn't it?
13:55 It's that sort of, you know,
13:57 you've probably been a bit more sedentary or whatever.
13:59 And then you just need to get back into your, you know,
14:02 we talk about kids getting back into their routine,
14:04 but I think there's an element of that for everybody,
14:05 isn't there?
14:06 - Absolutely.
14:08 There is an element of the, you know,
14:10 to varying degrees, we all pretty much like,
14:14 you know, routine, not only in our conscious self,
14:17 but also in our, you know, sort of peripheral
14:19 and autonomic nervous system where we don't think about it.
14:21 So our body and our minds like to have routine
14:24 when we sort of, you know, when we get up,
14:26 when we wake, when we go to the toilet, for instance,
14:29 you know, all of these different types of things.
14:30 And when that's all kind of upset is then, you know,
14:32 then it tends to impact, you know, how we feel
14:34 and then also our behaviors.
14:36 And then, you know,
14:37 when those behaviors come out of that consistency,
14:39 it's more difficult to get back in.
14:40 So the body really does like routine.
14:44 - So I know there are some pretty stark statistics
14:46 around this.
14:47 So just to prove a point,
14:48 can you tell, can you give us some of those key stats
14:50 about the impact of physical activity on mental health?
14:53 I mean, you spoke about one of your studies there,
14:55 but if there's anything else you have to hand,
14:56 you could tell us about.
14:58 - Yeah, so I think there's probably like two key areas
15:03 to sort of say.
15:04 So when we're talking about mental health
15:06 and mental health, we talk about prevention.
15:10 So can being more active, engaging in exercise play a role
15:13 in maintaining my wellbeing and reducing my risk of,
15:16 you know, say depression, anxiety
15:17 and stress related conditions in the future.
15:19 And we've done lots of research with people
15:21 all over the world, all ages,
15:23 and shown that there is a consistent relationship
15:25 between being more active, engaging in exercise
15:27 and a reduced risk of depression, anxiety
15:29 and stress related conditions in the future
15:31 by around 20 to 30%.
15:33 So it is a protective buffer
15:36 against these conditions in the future.
15:38 And then we've done sort of big genetic studies
15:41 to look at this,
15:41 also to sort of kind of back that up for the prevention,
15:45 following people over long periods of time.
15:46 And if you look at people
15:47 who are genetically predisposed to depression,
15:51 and you compare those engaging in regular exercise
15:53 versus those that don't,
15:54 those who engage in regular exercise,
15:56 you know, are less likely to develop depression.
15:58 So genes don't determine your risk
16:00 and physical activity can play a key role
16:02 in offsetting that risk.
16:03 So that's a brief snippet around prevention.
16:06 And if I talk about treatment,
16:08 and we've made great styles in sort of treatment.
16:11 So if I just take depression again, for instance,
16:13 we've shown, you know, consistently
16:15 that if you compare exercise versus usual care,
16:18 then you get significant
16:21 and clinically meaningful improvements
16:23 in people's depressive symptoms.
16:25 - Okay.
16:26 - And there was a nice study came out recently
16:28 in the Netherlands,
16:28 which I think is worth highlighting,
16:30 where they did a randomized control trial
16:33 and people having health or depression
16:35 for the first time living in the community.
16:37 And instead of all going, you know,
16:40 following regular treatment,
16:41 is they're randomized to either have running therapy
16:44 three times a week for up to 40 minutes,
16:46 or have their first antidepressant.
16:48 - Okay.
16:49 - And what they found is over a four month period,
16:52 X running therapy was just as good
16:55 for reducing depression as this antidepressant
16:59 over the four month period.
17:00 But also we know that medication,
17:04 whilst it's helpful for many people,
17:07 it does have side effects.
17:08 - Yeah.
17:09 - You know, weight gain, you know,
17:10 changes in blood glucose, lipids, et cetera.
17:12 So physical activity and exercise
17:14 would have a much better impact on people's
17:16 physical health profile also.
17:19 So it was just as good as medication
17:21 for improving mental health,
17:23 but it was much better for people's physical health
17:25 and people really care about that.
17:27 - That it's really quite eye opening,
17:30 what you're saying because, you know,
17:32 is the natural conclusion like we're all getting
17:35 more depressed because we're not moving enough?
17:38 You know, I know it's simplifying an awful lot,
17:40 but it feels like that might be a potential issue
17:44 that we're experiencing at the moment.
17:46 What about people with diagnosed mental health issues?
17:51 You know, well, we've spoken about that a little bit there,
17:53 but we maybe need to acknowledge that different people
17:56 have different strengths and abilities
17:57 and often associated with our age
17:59 or maybe how active we've been in the past.
18:02 So what would you say to someone
18:03 who does very little physical activity at the moment?
18:06 How can they set themselves up to get started
18:08 and have a positive experience?
18:11 - Yeah, well, I think it's important
18:14 to just briefly touch on terminology
18:16 because many people hear the word exercise
18:20 and it can be quite sort of off-putting for a lot of people
18:22 and be a bit of a barrier to getting started.
18:25 So exercise is just a really small sort of subset
18:29 of physical activity.
18:30 And there are many other benefits to being active
18:34 which aren't traditional exercise,
18:36 such as going to the gym, running really hard and fast.
18:40 There's many benefits to dancing, Pilates, yoga,
18:43 all of those things too.
18:45 So just to first to sort of open that up for people.
18:48 And research has shown that actually the greatest benefits
18:53 are for people who are not actually doing much at the moment.
18:56 So it's actually good news if you're getting started.
18:59 You will experience quicker benefits better
19:02 once you get started.
19:03 So the key message really is some is better than none
19:08 and more is better than some.
19:10 So don't underestimate that just making small changes
19:13 and doing some consistency over time,
19:15 five minutes, 10 minutes, light walks
19:17 can just get you started and feeling better.
19:20 So the key thing for any long-term behavior changes,
19:23 we need to do something we enjoy, we find fun,
19:26 we find interesting.
19:27 It's better if we've got social support
19:30 and then you're much more likely to do that in the future.
19:33 So if it was recommended to me, for instance,
19:37 that I did dancing and yoga every day,
19:40 I wouldn't do it because I don't enjoy it.
19:41 But if you gave me choice over what I can do,
19:44 then I'm much more likely to go and do it.
19:46 And we know that the type of activity is less important
19:50 than the quantity and the volume.
19:54 - Okay, and what about that?
19:56 I imagine that sort of getting someone to go along
20:00 with you, having a buddy,
20:01 sort of that mutual support thing
20:03 can be quite important too.
20:04 - Yeah, absolutely.
20:07 So like social support and a sense of connection
20:10 is really important,
20:11 not only for experiencing the benefits
20:13 of that social action interaction,
20:14 particularly if you're struggling
20:15 and having a difficult time,
20:16 but also to help people engaged as they go over time.
20:21 As if you're meeting people regularly,
20:22 you're enjoying that interaction
20:23 and you're much more likely to keep going
20:24 and experiencing the physical and mental health benefits
20:27 of that interaction and of the movement.
20:29 - Absolutely.
20:30 Okay, so thank you for that.
20:32 We're gonna move on quickly now
20:33 to our second part of our podcast
20:35 where we respond to one of our listeners concerns.
20:38 Hopefully you'll be able to give us some advice
20:40 on this today, Brendan.
20:41 We have an email from Bobby in Exeter.
20:43 She says, "I'm a mom to a 16 month old baby girl.
20:46 She's my first child and whilst I love every minute
20:48 of motherhood, the one aspect I find difficult to deal with
20:51 is the changes to my body.
20:52 I've always been an active person, even through pregnancy.
20:55 I walked a lot and swam up to my due date.
20:57 The birth was prolonged
20:59 and whilst I have no significant issues as a result,
21:01 I've not been able to get back to normal.
21:03 I know that's cliche,
21:05 but I am about one stone heavier than I was
21:07 and my energy levels are very low.
21:09 I know this impacts my mental health
21:11 and whilst my sleep is not in the best place anyway,
21:14 I believe it's impacting that too.
21:15 My mood fluctuates as well, but again,
21:17 it's hard to know if that's being a parent of a baby
21:21 or again, associated with this change to my lifestyle.
21:24 I have tried exercising, but I feel sluggish
21:26 and I hate how out of shape my body has become.
21:29 Do you have any advice, please?
21:30 Oh, having been there, I know what that feels like
21:32 and it's terrible 'cause you're just like,
21:34 oh, no sleep, baby, sluggish, tired, body's tired,
21:38 body can be sore, you know?
21:39 It's a lot of things to contend with, isn't it?
21:42 - There is, there is and I've worked with a lot of people
21:45 who've been in a similar situation
21:47 and first and foremost, thank you for sharing that with me
21:50 and you know, you absolutely won't be alone
21:53 within yourself and I think really,
21:55 this is a lot of chicken and egg situations
21:56 and a lot of factors which are all interplaying
21:58 with each other and you know,
22:00 I wish there was a magic bullet where I could say,
22:02 if you do four weeks of this,
22:04 everything's gonna be amazing,
22:06 but that would be disingenuous
22:08 and really, this is going to be something
22:11 which is gonna have small, consistent changes over time
22:14 and you will gradually start to feel better within yourself
22:17 as we start to feel better, as we move more.
22:19 Some days are gonna be more hard than others,
22:21 you're gonna feel tired and it's gonna be more difficult,
22:24 but having that consistency is good
22:26 and just knowing that your body is recovering
22:30 and in a process of recovering by doing exercise,
22:32 by stretching yoga, Pilates, doing some strength work,
22:35 is you are rebuilding your body's strength going forward
22:39 and this consistency over time,
22:42 will have improvements in the physical capabilities
22:45 of your body and also in the mental health aspects as well.
22:48 So consistency over time is key,
22:50 so keep going even in those difficult days.
22:53 - Yeah, as we discussed earlier in the podcast,
22:55 start small, work your way up
22:57 and you'll start seeing an impact.
22:59 That's absolutely brilliant, thank you so much, Brendan.
23:02 Brendan joined us from Cyprus today,
23:04 maybe heard little birdies in the background,
23:05 which was nice. (laughs)
23:07 And I'm sure if any of you would like to follow him,
23:10 you can look up his work on King's College London website
23:13 and you could follow him on social media.
23:15 Thanks for being with us today again, Brendan,
23:17 some absolutely invaluable advice there.
23:19 We'll be back again next week,
23:21 helping equip you with the tools you need
23:22 on your path to fulfillment.
23:24 Remember, if you have a question in this area
23:26 or any area of personal development,
23:28 you can drop us an email to kelly.crichton@nationalworld.com
23:31 and we'll aim to get you the advice you need.
23:33 Thank you for joining us on this episode of The Reset Room.
23:35 You can follow us on Twitter @reset_room,
23:38 on Facebook @theresetroom
23:39 and on Instagram @resetroompodcast.
23:41 Please remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast
23:43 and tell all your friends about it if you're enjoying it.
23:47 The Reset Room is produced and hosted by me, Kelly Crichton.
23:50 Thank you for listening and see you next week.
23:52 Bye-bye.
23:53 (upbeat music)
23:56 (upbeat music)
23:58 [MUSIC]
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