00:00 Hello and welcome back to the 77% this week we are in Kigali, Rwanda also known
00:06 as the land of a thousand hills. More recently it's come to be known as the
00:09 best place for women in politics and that's because over 60% of
00:14 parliamentarians here are women. That's compared to just over 20% globally so
00:18 you can see what the big deal is. But we're here to investigate if there's a
00:21 trickle-down effect. How do the women in this country feel about that? Has there
00:24 been any change and what can we as the rest of the globe learn from this
00:28 country? Who else to help me answer those questions but some Rwandans and today
00:31 we're going to begin with a member of parliament. Just give us a talk back in
00:35 history. How did we get here? How did we get there? It all started by political
00:40 will to change things. You know our country is marked with a dark history of
00:45 genocide against Tutsi where millions of population were killed because they were
00:52 Tutsi. So when the genocide was stopped big measures were taken to transform the
00:57 country. So it started by eradicating in a country whatever discrimination exists.
01:04 So just for the benefit of our audience who's global the genocide against the
01:08 Tutsis left a big part of the population unfortunately murdered and nearly 60 to
01:13 70% of the remaining population were women right? So before that what was the
01:18 state of affairs for women in this country? How was it like? Yeah so first of
01:21 all women couldn't own land, they couldn't inherit it. So if suppose there
01:27 was a widow and her daughters none of them could own land even when they owned
01:32 it before when their father was still there. Also you needed a written
01:37 permission or consent by your husband to get a job or to open a bank account.
01:43 Excuse me? Yeah that's how far we were. So on the land issue in 2019 surprisingly
01:52 more women owned land than men. Wow so there's been a radical shift you would
01:56 say since then. How would you describe the state of affairs for you guys? When I
02:00 was younger there were less women driving cars. I remember when I was young
02:04 I used to count three there were three women I remember the colors of their
02:08 cars. So I used to clap whenever they would pass by and now you can't it's too
02:13 many. Okay Moses speak to me about it. I think that it's true but also let's not
02:21 forget that part of the reason why there was a political will to give rights and
02:26 equality for women in this country is because women are fundamentally the
02:32 right population or demographic if you want to do peace and reconciliation and
02:37 it has been proven if we wanted especially after the genocide women have
02:41 contributed 60% of what conversation and building this country the way it is. I
02:47 want to know you know if you were raised in this country by say men who enjoyed a
02:52 patriarchal system how are you different from say your father's generation or
02:56 your uncle's? I think we're raised from in the situation where our mothers are
03:02 everything. Our big sisters were like our mothers and our mothers were like our
03:08 fathers. So they are everything to us. We're against with anything which put
03:16 them behind. So you're definitely new mind, new thinking, new generation. Okay Aisha
03:22 here from YWCA. You are snapping. It is sounding like if we have a life while we are still on our way and going back in rural area you might find still women there who doesn't know what we are saying.
03:38 Here in Kigali and a simple example there is a higher level of teenage
03:43 pregnancy in Rwanda now and one of the issues you might see it's because of
03:48 men. They don't understand gender equality. They don't see the effect or
03:52 impact of impregnate someone while for them the life we goes on. And I wanted to
03:57 add that congratulations Rwanda for 61% because representation is very important
04:03 for young girls who are growing up to know that they can make it into those
04:06 rooms. However it's very important to also question exactly which is the topic
04:11 of today. What does actually those numbers represent and what are the women
04:15 in those seats actually doing because we usually misunderstand numbers because
04:21 you think if a woman is in the position they represent women but because which
04:26 is not because just I'm a woman it's like if you see a woman who's leading a
04:30 certain company it does not mean that everything the decisions they're making
04:34 they're making them for the sense of women. Okay there was a question
04:38 directed to you right which is there are the women in those seats which is
04:43 yourself but what are you doing for the women? Seven years ago I was like my
04:49 sisters questioning MPs what are you coming to do? What are you doing for us?
04:57 But that space of talking to them of showing me you have opportunities grab
05:05 them use them I grabbed it now I'm sitting with them telling them I know in
05:11 2013 you enacted a law giving land rights to women but we are seeing men
05:19 owning land behind women's back what can we do? Then 2021 we amended that same law
05:28 because there were gaps you see I'm saying it because to say women
05:34 empowerment or women equality it's a plug list you know today you may achieve
05:38 this but tomorrow you find it there is a gap. So D'lisse works for
05:44 Resonate or with Resonate which is an organization that helps deal with these
05:48 challenges that we're talking about. Do the women believe that they belong in
05:51 these positions and not just the members of Parliament but like CEOs, directors do
05:56 they own that? That's what I was about to say the quarters that we have so we'll
06:01 have 30% of women in whatever position you're supposed to be in yes but because
06:06 we grew up in a patriarchal society where everybody tells you you don't
06:10 deserve to be there or you don't have anybody who looks like you there so you
06:14 are in the room we were talking about this earlier we are you in a room you
06:16 are just one woman 30 men what can you say and everybody will go oh you're just
06:21 a woman so I think in addition to the policies the strategies the everything
06:26 we're doing we need to get the women to have that click in the mind that goes
06:30 yeah I actually deserve this. I need some solutions now how do we close the gaps
06:35 that exist Aisha? I would say first of all we need women and girls empowerment
06:41 in their mindsets socially, economically, politically we need to empower girls and
06:46 feel confident about it. Second we need men engagement we need to be at the same
06:51 level of understanding like what I understand it's what they understand if
06:55 I feel like I can be a businesswoman a man should understand it the same way
06:59 not feeling that I was given actually I wasn't given I deserve it. Okay fantastic
07:03 and finally because we started with you I'd like to wrap up this conversation
07:07 with you at the beginning we asked if you feel there's a trickle-down effect
07:10 obviously from your work you have an idea but based on this conversation what
07:14 do you think could be done more? We still have a long way to go it's a
07:18 continuous work we know that women do as double as so many and so much and
07:25 paid care work. Are we having structures in place helping them? Do we have a place
07:32 where they can put children and so they can focus on the work at home? So what
07:37 we have to do is to continue implementing those amazing
07:41 policies also on their side are you think the maximum opportunity we have as
07:47 women so this is to them grab it hold it and move Rwanda to the next stage. I could
08:00 not think of a better place to wrap up this debate in Kiswahili we say
08:04 kidogo kidogo hujaza kibaba little by little you fill the entire space and I
08:08 think that's the message that we've heard here today there's steps that's
08:11 been taken there's more to go but let's not forget that good work has been done
08:15 thank you all for being here and thank you for watching
08:20 (upbeat music)
