Niger Coup

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00:00 More on this story, we're joined by Ulf Lessing, an author and head of the Sahel program at

00:04 the Konrad Adenauer Foundation in Mali.

00:07 Thanks so much for being with us here on France 24.

00:09 So the West has largely condemned this military coup, but for countries with a military presence

00:14 inside of Niger, including the US and France, it's a bit more complicated.

00:19 They can't just cut off relations completely, can they?

00:22 Yeah, I mean, every effort is being made to restore Mr. Basu in power.

00:28 But I mean, anyway, he was under pressure because he was seen being too close, too cozy

00:33 with France, with the European Union, with also the Americans.

00:37 And even if now by pressure, you know, I mean, he will be restored to power.

00:43 I'm not sure he can actually return this because his credibility has been really damaged.

00:48 He's been held now for four days by his own guards, hostage, without a single army or

00:54 police unit coming to his rescue.

00:56 So while these efforts to pressure him, you know, cutting aid, you know, sanctions, threats,

01:02 you know, might work, I mean, he would probably return in a very weakened state.

01:07 Well, Niger is a country you're familiar with.

01:10 Can you just describe what the security situation is like in the country at the moment?

01:15 Yeah, it's relatively calm, but it's always in Niger an illusion.

01:21 It's one of the poorest countries of the world, where the government doesn't really exist

01:26 outside the main capital, and maybe Agadez is the second city.

01:30 But otherwise it's a very weak state, and it doesn't take much to overthrow a government.

01:37 That would be the other question.

01:39 If now Mr. Basu gets reinstalled by, you know, international pressure or, you know, ECOWAS,

01:45 can he stay in power?

01:46 But it's not very difficult to overthrow a president in Niger, where you have very weak

01:52 institutions.

01:54 You mentioned poverty.

01:55 What about the humanitarian situation in Niger?

01:57 What is life like for everyday people, and how has that played into the events of this

02:02 week?

02:03 Yeah, I mean, Niger depends heavily on foreign aid, budget support.

02:08 There's a huge operation from all Western donors.

02:12 You find them there.

02:14 It's one of the poorest countries at the bottom of every development index.

02:19 And if all these Westerners or other Arab or other donors pull out, the situation will

02:28 be more desperate.

02:30 Most people, they've long given up on understanding politics.

02:33 They're just trying to make ends meet.

02:36 So in your opinion, what is next here for Niger?

02:39 Where do you see this going?

02:40 I don't know.

02:42 The longer this coup takes place, I mean, the more difficult it will be to remove, let

02:49 alone because Mr. Bazoum is now so weak.

02:51 And even this, you know, suspension of aid or, you know, threats by ECOWAS didn't impress

02:57 other coup leaders, like in Burkina Faso and Mali.

03:00 So I fear there will be more instability.

03:05 You know, Niger has been also a major partner of Europe to stop migration to Libya and to

03:11 Europe.

03:12 I mean, Niger lies on the main migration route.

03:16 So if there's continued instability, there will be probably more migration and more instability,

03:23 which eventually will affect the whole Sahel.

03:25 OK, we'll have to leave it there.

03:27 Ouf Lessling, author and head of the Sahel Program at the Konrad Adenauer Foundation

03:31 in Mali.

03:32 Thanks so much for joining us here on France 24.

03:34 Well, thank you.

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