- 11 years ago
Category
🎥
Short filmTranscript
00:00Throughout my life, I have grappled with my own identity, who I am.
00:12I am also here today because, shamefully, I engaged in an adult consensual affair with
00:21another man.
00:22Long before former New Jersey Governor James McGreevy held a press conference admitting
00:27that he, in fact, had had an affair on his wife with a man, we were talking about this
00:32phenomenon that we call the down-low.
00:35Three years ago, I decided to document the secret lives of men on the down-low at an
00:40organization called Project WOW Youth Center, located right here in Newark, New Jersey.
00:46Newark is known for its high rate of HIV and AIDS cases, and the question has been raised,
00:52Are men on the down-low spreading the AIDS virus?
01:07As stated in a recent New York Times article, down-low men are infecting African-American
01:12women at an alarming rate, causing the HIV-AIDS epidemic to spread.
01:21Why are there the cons?
01:22Because the stereotypes against being called a gay man, they want to keep their manhood,
01:26but still do what they want to do.
01:33Certain guys like to be finger-pumped.
01:38This is just oral sex.
01:39I mean, he wanted to do oral sex on me.
01:43I don't do nothing under $20.
01:48I don't want to go to a stroll.
01:49I don't want to go to the village.
01:51If you don't do these things, it's really hard to meet people.
01:54Well, the internet provides a safe place where you can communicate.
01:58The men in this documentary tell it all.
02:00They get down and dirty with candid stories about being on the down-low, sleeping with
02:05men and women, prostitution, deception, suicide, and contracting HIV and AIDS.
02:13So the bottom line is that I know what I do, and from what other people will perceive
02:18me as, fuck y'all.
02:20I know who I am.
02:23What if your mate, your man, or your husband was on the down-low?
02:31My first thought was to find out what they feel the definition of the down-low is.
02:38What does D.I. mean to you all with that?
02:39Because I think this is one particular population within the black gay community that has gotten
02:44so much attention over the past couple of years.
02:46To me, D.I. means confidential.
02:48Confidential.
02:49Basically.
02:50Okay.
02:51Okay.
02:52Anyone else?
02:54I think D.I. is like somebody, you know, experimenting with another, you know, same sex.
03:04Are all D.I. men gay?
03:05Yes.
03:06No.
03:07What are they?
03:08It depends on what they consider what they is.
03:10Some say that they straight, and they just get down, or occasionally.
03:15Then some say they bi, and then some just say that they gay.
03:18That's what they say they is.
03:19Anybody else?
03:20What do they think about this whole D.L. thing?
03:22Why do you keep blaming yourself like the D.L. when you should just, I mean, if you're
03:26experimenting, you're a gay man.
03:28You might have been experimenting, but you just keep doing it, and doing it, and doing
03:32it.
03:33It's the opposite.
03:34I believe that it's a competitive thing that you do with the same sex, and, you know, you're
03:40liking it, and you want to keep doing it, but why don't you just expose yourself as
03:44a gay person?
03:45Like a gay man.
03:46I don't agree.
03:47That's what I see.
03:48So I want to ask you a question, and I don't want to create more controversy, but from
03:51what you just said.
03:52So if you're experimenting multiple times, and then obviously you'll be associated as
03:59gay, then won't you fall into these stereotypes of how people will perceive you?
04:04No.
04:05No.
04:06That's exactly.
04:07If they're on a D.L. and they don't want to be exposed, they're going to try to keep
04:11themselves away from this, all these old traits up here, like falling in love, because they
04:16don't want nobody to love them back, because they're going to be scared to love.
04:19If we gay men saying this about gay men, so then imagine what people were saying about
04:24it already.
04:25Exactly.
04:26It's very interesting though.
04:27We have to think about that.
04:28We have to think about the dynamics of what we, in the room, think about gay men, and
04:29then think about what heterosexuals probably are perceiving gay men to be.
04:30Black heterosexuals, again.
04:31But if you're saying heterosexual males perceive us, but you're also saying how D.L. men perceive
04:32us gay men, they're gay too.
04:33But are they?
04:34Are they?
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10:14Y'all is full of a bunch of bullshit, basically.
10:16Because y'all don't know what the fuck y'all talking about.
10:18You're a gang, and everybody in that room is a gang.
10:26Living on the down low ain't easy.
10:28What do these men say?
10:31What do these men do?
10:33How do these men hide?
10:35How do these men live on the down low?
10:39In my early childhood and adolescent years,
10:41I did live a life of a double life, if you want to call it like that.
10:45And some people today may even call it on the down low.
10:48But not necessarily as I would define on the down low as today.
10:52Part of my double life was just exploring my sexuality
10:56and trying to kind of fit in in two different worlds.
10:59There was the world, the public world,
11:01the world that said that I needed to be heterosexual
11:04and I needed to be a man.
11:06And being a man meant that I had to be aggressive,
11:08meant that I had to have a girlfriend,
11:10meant that I had to have a wife,
11:12meant that I had to conquer or be with as many women as possible,
11:15meant that I had to do the whole dating process,
11:17get a girlfriend and go to the prom with her.
11:19All those activities.
11:21So on that one level, I lived that life.
11:24On a whole other level where people didn't know,
11:27I also lived another type of life.
11:29It was a type of life where I desired other men who were like me.
11:33I desired to feel and to hold and to caress and to love
11:37and to be loved by another male.
11:39And that was, for me, a double life.
11:44For a brief period of my life,
11:46I would have identified with what we now call the down low,
11:51sort of kind of living an undercover life.
11:55The summer after high school and between the time I saw Rent
12:01before I came out to my mother,
12:03I would definitely socialize and get identified venues.
12:08But when I left those venues,
12:10I was very conscious to butchen up, if you will,
12:14to sort of kind of exhibit more masculine traits and characteristics.
12:18When I would hit back, because I grew up in New York City,
12:22when I would leave the village area
12:24and go downstairs to the subway system, the E train specifically,
12:28I would know that, OK, I'm leaving this life behind me
12:32and I'm putting on this other life, this other hat that I wear
12:35that's straight identified butch male, Caribbean male, black male,
12:40and that's who I am.
12:42And I'm not going to put on this other hat again until I enter the village.
12:45And it wasn't until I came out to my mother
12:48that I decided to leave sort of kind of the secret life
12:52or the down low behind me.
12:55I could just never say Sean's on the down low.
12:58I don't think that anyone could say Sean was on the down low.
13:02That's just me, you know,
13:04and my personal views of what I think down low is.
13:08For me, what the down low is,
13:10there's someone that I don't think that you can really see at all.
13:13I don't think that they have characteristics.
13:15And again, this is my personal view,
13:17it's not as far as my professional view,
13:19but my personal view is that I don't think that you could tell.
13:23I don't think that they really resemble any feminine characteristics.
13:28I think that if you notice someone on the streets
13:32that's just an average guy that you would never question.
13:35Like, hmm, am I gay?
13:37Like for me it was never, hmm, are you Diaz?
13:39Hmm, are you gay?
13:41You know, so for me I would never consider myself being on the down low.
13:46Freshman year in high school,
13:48I don't think that the girls would say that I was on the down low now
13:51because people, this girl that I was dating,
13:55and people would constantly tell her, you know, he's gay.
13:59He's gay.
14:01And she would constantly ask me, are you gay, Shauna, are you gay?
14:04And I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not, I'm not gay.
14:09When you kept telling them no,
14:12who do you think they believed, you or the other people?
14:17They had to choose.
14:21Hmm.
14:24I guess they did believe me.
14:27I guess they wanted to believe me.
14:31I always wondered, what was I?
14:34You know, I actually didn't find out until like 10, 11 years ago.
14:40I had two girlfriends, two wives, whatever you want to call it,
14:45Carmilla and Monique.
14:48When I was with them, you know,
14:51I guess I was basically with them for social pressures, I should say.
14:55You know, society, you know, puts a picture on us
14:58that a man should be with a female, a female should be with a man,
15:01and all sorts of things like that.
15:03And I just really personally, in my, I don't know,
15:06I can't speak for other people of my own sexuality, I can only speak for me.
15:10What I felt basically was that when I was with a female,
15:14I felt nothing there.
15:16I didn't feel anything.
15:17The only thing I felt there with that female, with Carmilla and with Monique basically,
15:21was I could be their best friend.
15:23When it actually came down to the loving and all that kind of stuff, though,
15:26I knew, you know, it wasn't really there.
15:29I mean, I've been sexually active with them a couple times, though,
15:31and after, I think it was like the third act or something like that, though,
15:35you know, it's going to sound ironic, though,
15:37I just didn't have an erection then.
15:39I mean, you know, she was laid out on the bed, legs wide open, you know,
15:43and I'm sitting there like, oh my God.
15:45And I didn't have anything to drink.
15:47I wasn't drunk.
15:48I didn't have nothing in my system or anything like that, though.
15:50You know, I wasn't under stress.
15:51I mean, I was in college.
15:52I had a nice little paying job and everything like that.
15:55I mean, life was pretty much going good for me basically, you know,
15:59and I didn't have no erection or anything like that.
16:02I sat there and I thought about all kinds of stuff.
16:04I thought about sexual acts with her brother, people in school, you know, I mean, everything.
16:09I still didn't get a heart attack.
16:10I was wondering, what the hell is wrong with me?
16:13I have dated women before.
16:16I was actually in love with a girl not too recently.
16:19You know, I was willing to, like, you know, take out the rainbow tongue ring
16:23and throw down the rainbow key chain and everything.
16:26I threw away my rainbow shirt.
16:28I was going to just, like, you know, play it straight just for her.
16:30But, you know, she was grimy.
16:33She was a hoe.
16:34She cheated on me.
16:35She had to go.
16:36But basically how I decide who I want to be with is, you know,
16:41if I stop and I see you as a beautiful black woman,
16:46I will be like, okay, you're very beautiful.
16:49Can I have your number or whatever?
16:51But if I go walking in the street after I just talked to you and I see a cute guy,
16:55I'm going to say, wow, yo, what's up?
16:57Can I get your number?
16:58You want to hang out?
16:59Get some beers or something?
17:00You know?
17:03And then, you know, I'll go about, you know, talking and dating both.
17:06Well, I would tell anyone who would say that I'm on the down-low,
17:10what I tell people even around here, I bear no classifications.
17:15I am who I am.
17:17Who I choose to sleep with is my business.
17:20Who I choose to ignore for the other is my business.
17:25I mean, and have these people who would, like, come up to me and be like,
17:29oh, you're on the down-low based on what you said.
17:31Please, I'm not even worried about it.
17:33Because 99% of them out there know they're doing the same damn thing, too.
17:39I had some experience with females.
17:42I used to date females up until I was a freshman in high school or whatever.
17:48It was cool.
17:49Like, I really did, like, kids and shit like that,
17:51I really didn't, like, do, like, no intercourse shit or whatever.
17:54I was never, like, really, really into that because I was 14
17:57and I was worried about getting my hair cut and shit
18:00and having a fresh pair of sneakers on.
18:02So I wasn't, like, worried about females.
18:04So I had a couple of girlfriends or whatever here and there,
18:07but they wasn't shit.
18:10I never felt a special way about a female before.
18:16It was like it was then and there, and I was trying to please everybody else,
18:21so I just did what I had to do.
18:23Even though I was out, my first Michael, he was still on the down low.
18:28I don't know.
18:30It was just crazy for me.
18:32He was in high school or whatever.
18:34He went to Orange High.
18:36He was on a basketball team or whatever.
18:39He had a lot of girls and shit, and, like, everybody at the group home
18:42looked it up to him, so they never would suspect, like,
18:46he was gay but we was fucking or whatever.
18:49So nobody would ever knew it did.
18:51When he got kicked out or whatever, he went to stay with his aunt
18:56around the corner from where I was or whatever.
18:58So I had the single room in the group home.
19:01So, like, if you did good or whatever, like, if you had a job
19:04and you was, like, having good grades in school, they gave you your own room.
19:07So I had my own room, so he used to sneak up to my room,
19:10knock on the window, and just redo us or whatever.
19:15And it was periods, like, I wouldn't go.
19:17I wouldn't see him for, like, nine, ten months and shit,
19:20down the street or whatever, like, or Park Avenue or Main Street,
19:23and then I'd see him, and then the process would start up again.
19:26I had girlfriends throughout my 17, 18, 19 years of age.
19:32Even when I went to college, I was sexually active with women.
19:36Had I been with men as well during those times? Yes.
19:41It just so happens to be that way.
19:44It was part of my exploration, part of my wanting to feel comfortable
19:49and wanting to feel fit in, wanting to be part of something that was greater than me,
19:53something that was acceptable in my terms.
19:57And so I did those things probably out of self-pressure, peer pressure,
20:02societal, religious pressure.
20:04I didn't want to let my family down.
20:06There's no way, coming from the household that I came from,
20:09there's no way that I could think of telling my family that I liked other men,
20:17that whole homosexuality thing.
20:19In my country, the word, the way that you say to gay is, you say, masisi.
20:24And that is such a, that is such a negative word.
20:28And just to hear somebody say that, it's a disgusting word.
20:34And I was beginning to have and living a life of that disgusting word.
20:40And it's awkward for me because today when we hear about down low,
20:44we think about sort of kind of men who have girlfriends or are married
20:50and at the same time have sex with men.
20:52And for me, that doesn't adequately define men on the down low.
20:57For me, men on the down low are men who do not openly embrace their sexual orientation,
21:02their sexual identity, or their sexual expression.
21:05They don't accept the fact that they may be having sex with other men at all,
21:12even to themselves.
21:13It may be an act that they do anonymously, and because it's anonymous,
21:17they don't have to really truly own the fact that they're having sex with another man
21:24because they don't know how to get in contact with that man in some cases.
21:27And so when they go home to their wife or their girlfriend, they put that behind them.
21:32Another thing is that I really feel that down low doesn't only apply to men.
21:37It applies to women as well.
21:39I can't even say that I date down low guys.
21:42I probably would say that I fuck down low guys, you know, because, again, they don't date.
21:51They don't date guys.
21:52I'll tell you how I would probably find a down low guy.
21:56There are several ways.
21:57There are several ways anyone can find.
21:58Given our new generation, given new technology, a lot of guys are on the Internet.
22:04So many guys are online.
22:07You know, you might want to go to the club, you know, that I might meet them.
22:14I can tell you as far as I can go back to the time where it was a married guy that I initially was seeing.
22:25And I was in high school.
22:26I was in high school at the time.
22:28And he was probably maybe 33, and I was probably like 17.
22:33I didn't know at the time.
22:34I didn't know at the time that he was married.
22:36I did not know at the time that he was married.
22:39So I would go over there.
22:41I saw his diploma.
22:43I saw things.
22:44I saw pictures.
22:45And it was just like something just really didn't add up.
22:49And from that, we had a conversation.
22:54So I was like, you know, you lied to me.
22:56I was like, so are you married?
22:57And he was like, yeah.
22:58But yes, I did.
23:01I did have sex with him.
23:04He didn't penetrate me for the simple fact that he was huge, like huge.
23:09I'm talking like 13, maybe 14 inches.
23:13So it was not happening for me.
23:15He did let me penetrate him.
23:18He did.
23:19And so I was very interested because I think I was the second guy that he did mess with.
23:26But shortly after that, his wife found out.
23:29And so now they have a divorce because of it.
23:33We started to talk again or whatever.
23:35But that's how he had a girlfriend, this little chickenhead ass bitch or whatever.
23:39I don't give a fuck about her.
23:40But anyway, I used to go over there and chill with him.
23:43And his boys used to ask like, yo, is that dude gay or whatever?
23:46He was like, yeah, that's my cousin or whatever.
23:48They used to be together.
23:50And I wouldn't think anything of it because the kid was so hard, so straight, so macho, you know.
23:57Describe that.
23:58He looked good.
23:59He's cute.
24:00He's very cute.
24:01I mean, he had, he'll wear like, you know, the constructs, the boots, the jeans, you know, durag, white tee, whatever.
24:10You know, velour sweatsuit, not, oh, she, she, woo, woo, as you would think of, you know, a gay man.
24:16And he, and I wouldn't even know that he was even gay or messing around or download, whatever you want to call it.
24:24And then one day he called me.
24:25He was like, I got kicked out of Isaiah house and I don't know what to do or whatever.
24:29I was like, you could come stay with me or whatever.
24:33But he was like, what about my, my girlfriend?
24:38So I was like, I don't know Michael or whatever.
24:42He was like, he started begging me and shit.
24:44I was like, all right.
24:45So I allowed them to come and stay with me and I went through hell.
24:49And it was so bad.
24:50It was so scandalous that my brother had the guy and his girl living with him at one point.
24:56It was scandalous.
24:58He had all of them in there and the girl didn't even know the relationship that my brother and the guy had.
25:04After me and Michael finished having sex, she caught us not having sex, but she caught us naked in the room.
25:09And then she just like ran out or whatever.
25:12And he talked to her.
25:13I don't know what he said to her to make her believe something.
25:16He told her that we was just jerking off or some shit.
25:19But I know she wasn't going to think of that because she, she, she already knew how we like used to act towards each other or whatever.
25:26Like if I had something, I would give it to Michael.
25:28If he had something, he would give it to me or whatever.
25:31After that, we was like really on like shaky ground.
25:34She used to say some dumb, stupid shit to me or whatever.
25:37Like, I know you fucking my man.
25:38Like we used to get in arguments like every night.
25:40I know you fucking my man.
25:42I don't know how many times a bitch called the cops on me.
25:44And it's so funny because I saw this kid about a year ago and he flagged me down.
25:50He was like, what's up, Nick?
25:51And I'm like, what's going on?
25:53And he's like, yeah, um, you know, how's your brother?
25:56And I'm like, oh, he's good.
25:57I'm like, how are you?
25:58He's like, you know, I'm doing my thing.
26:00You know, I'm getting money now and all this stuff.
26:02So, okay.
26:03He says, so when can I take you?
26:04I said, what?
26:06And I didn't actually find out about who I really was until maybe like, I would say nine years ago, I should say.
26:13You know, I had met this boy in, uh, in high school.
26:16For some unknown reason, I was like attracted to him.
26:19I couldn't understand it.
26:20Why?
26:21I mean, I like this hand.
26:22I like this news.
26:23I like this lips.
26:24I like this hair.
26:25You know, I like this body, you know, maybe a little clothes he wore basically.
26:29Then, you know, when he started talking and talking to me, I started talking back to him, though.
26:34You know, I saw, you know, a little bit of intelligence basically.
26:38I saw that I can learn something from him.
26:40I mean, he can learn.
26:41I mean, we did learn things from each other.
26:43We started off as friends and other people didn't think anything.
26:45No one could actually make the connection, though, because the only reason why no one could make the connection, though,
26:50because we was, you know, we would hardly talk to each other in high school.
26:53Most people would see, would see us together.
26:55They all think, oh, well, maybe that's just Quentin's associate or one of his friends.
26:59It couldn't be one of his boys, though, because he'll be hanging around and be talking and everything like that.
27:03You know, so it could possibly be a friend that he'd maybe go and seek help or assistance from or something like that.
27:08But on the opposite end, it was something like, you know, something more deeper and serious than that, though.
27:14How do I feel beyond the down low?
27:16Basically, I felt like maybe a white person in slavery time that supports freedom.
27:23The first love was a man, I'm assuming.
27:28Was this man also out or was this man what we would call on the down low, us heterosexuals is the term?
27:36Yeah, he was down low. He was real down low.
27:40He had a kid, you know, he had the wife, well, I should say the ex-wife.
27:46You know, none of his friends knew about his alternate lifestyle.
27:50Not even his parents or anything knew.
27:56No one suspected in any way whatsoever.
27:59Actually, there was only one person that did know.
28:02And interesting enough, it was his wife.
28:05That's part of what led to their divorce.
28:08She found him in bed with someone.
28:12So that was it, that kind of like blew up his DL in certain aspects.
28:20But yeah, he was just clean cut.
28:24He was very masculine.
28:26He was the type of person that looked like, okay, you're in my face, but you're in my face.
28:32Well, I will, you know, do some things.
28:35But yeah, that was it.
28:37I was sexually active like at times.
28:39Like we were doing stuff.
28:40Girls?
28:41No, with guys, like with guys.
28:42Like we would do stuff.
28:44Okay.
28:45So, okay.
28:46Well, I guess I'll finally let that out.
28:49That I think like we would mess around.
28:51Like me and the guys that were on the block, on our block, like we would like, they were brothers.
28:58We both had a very similar life as far as the guys that we were messing with, the brothers.
29:04Like their mother and their father was on drugs.
29:08So they were constantly at home by themselves as well.
29:11Whereas that my mother, she was on drugs.
29:13So I was at home constantly by myself.
29:15So we all, we both of us really had dysfunctional families.
29:19What we would do, you know, like I think we did like trains and stuff like that.
29:24And it would be like three.
29:25So it was three of us.
29:26It was two brothers.
29:27And we were, I think, on the side by the house.
29:32And it's like an alley over there.
29:33I don't know if we were messing around or not, but a neighbor saw us.
29:37So she's the one who really just like, just fucked up my childhood.
29:43Really.
29:44Because then she would tell everyone.
29:46And so then they would say, oh yeah, I saw Sean busting somebody in the booty or something like that.
29:51I don't know if we probably called it being gay or we just knew that that's what we like to do.
29:57And I don't even know if they even would identify as being gay.
30:00First time actually that I had sex with a girl was 15.
30:05Yeah, it was a white girl.
30:10And it was funny because it was this thing that we were actually having a conversation that how do I transition from people calling me gay?
30:19How do I get some points?
30:21How do I get points with guys, with straight guys?
30:25So we made up this thing.
30:27Okay.
30:28So I was like, yeah, so I eat pussy.
30:31And that was the thing that really blew me.
30:36It really blew me up.
30:37Like, oh, maybe he's not.
30:39Maybe he's not.
30:40And even though it was wild because people didn't admit stuff like that.
30:43And then for me to admit something like that, it was like, wow, are you serious?
30:49But I never liked girls, though.
30:52That was the thing.
30:53I don't know.
30:55Maybe if I do this, it'll change me.
30:58Maybe if I have sex with her, it'll change me.
31:01I have some friends that are transsexuals.
31:03You know, they dress.
31:05I have friends that are gay.
31:08And my girls, who are guys, but my girls, they mess with straight men.
31:18And they will tell me, my transsexual friend, she will tell me, like, you need to watch that because I used to mess with him.
31:27And these are guys.
31:28These are, I mean, big guys.
31:30Big, you know.
31:31What are their backgrounds?
31:32Are they married?
31:33Regular.
31:34Any average Joe on the street.
31:36And that's why I look at every man with a crooked eye.
31:39You do not know.
31:40And the same guys that are, you know, trying to talk to me or hold my hand are the same ones that are calling my brother or whoever, like, can I come and see you later?
31:52Survival sex is the phrase that most down-low men use for prostitution.
31:58And the stroll in Newark, New Jersey, is where the straight men go to pick up these men for sexual favors.
32:05At the moment, we are down in the heart of downtown Newark.
32:09This is called the stroll.
32:12This is where a lot of our transgender young women come down.
32:15The femme queen stroll is what they call it.
32:17Femme queen stroll, okay.
32:18Where they come down and attempt to earn some type of money through working with sex.
32:24It's generally through soliciting sex and sometimes having risky sexual behaviors, which puts them and their partners at risk for HIV transmission.
32:32Reena.
32:33Hi.
32:34We are on the stroll, girl.
32:36Happy yesterday, honey.
32:37A lot of people don't want to admit they do the stroll.
32:39Yeah, but I'm one of the ones who do.
32:41I like to admit I'm on the stroll.
32:42Yes, I do work the stroll.
32:44It's hard for transsexuals these days, so we got to do what we got to do.
32:47We got to eat like everybody else.
32:49Now, let's get right down and dirty, girl.
32:51Okay.
32:52A lot of the men that come out here to the stroll to pick up females, as you would call yourselves, they're usually what we would call men on the down-low.
33:00Right.
33:01Break that down for us.
33:02Everything.
33:03Every guy, I guess, has a feminine side and every guy has a freaky side.
33:07So, you know, sometimes, you know, heterosexual male, they feel that, you know, being that they've had females so long and they want to try something different.
33:17So, you know, no ordinary male is going to go out and say, I like fucking transsexuals or I like doing something with a transsexual.
33:27You know what I'm saying?
33:28And be honest.
33:29So, you know, they'll keep it on the down-low.
33:30They'll come and see you every so often.
33:32You know what I'm saying?
33:33They'll probably get your number or you give them their number or whatever the case may be.
33:36And basically, it's kept on the down-low.
33:38Nobody really says anything about it.
33:40If you see them during the daytime, which sometimes you do, being that it's a small town, you know.
33:45Newark is very small.
33:46Right.
33:47You don't really, you know, let them know.
33:49You know, you don't really notice them in the daytime.
33:51You don't really make it known that you have them.
33:53You don't even answer them or acknowledge them or anything.
33:54No.
33:55You just might give them a little eye.
33:56Like, yeah.
33:57You'll see me next weekend.
33:58You'll see me tonight.
34:00You'll see me tonight.
34:01You're on a trip.
34:02Now, when they come here, do you, what do these, give us an idea for visual effects.
34:07What do these men typically look like?
34:09What kind of careers do they have?
34:10What kind of lives do they have?
34:11Well.
34:12Break that down-low thing down for us.
34:13Okay.
34:14As far as the strobe, every guy, every different kind of guy, every kind of race, different kind of weight, different kind of height.
34:22You get all different kind of ones.
34:25You get all different kind of ways that they like to sexually have you.
34:29You know what I'm saying?
34:30Some guys like to do different strange things as far as, you know, they have foot fetishes.
34:34Like what?
34:35Like they want you to put your foot in their groin or they want you to, you know, they like to lick your toes and jerk off at the same time.
34:42Or they want you to do, you know, different things.
34:45Are they asking you for different things and I want to get into the different things because they don't want to tell their lady to do it, their wife to do it?
34:50Right.
34:51Why?
34:52Because females only, they feel that they don't want to over cross a boundary.
34:57You know, certain females don't like to do certain things because they feel that it's too freaky.
35:01Okay.
35:02You know what I'm saying?
35:03So we go, we take them all the way.
35:05Give me the all the way stuff that I wouldn't do.
35:07Such as, you know-
35:08How about the details?
35:09Beating them out, you know, letting them eat you out, you know, you fucking them.
35:13You know what I'm saying?
35:14Certain guys like that.
35:15Certain guys like to be finger popped.
35:16Certain guys like-
35:17What's finger popped?
35:18As far as sticking your, you know, your index finger inside their anal.
35:21Oh, okay.
35:22Inside their ass, basically.
35:23You know, certain guys like freaky stuff like that.
35:26Now, you know, from what I've heard, you know, a lot of men get mad when females say, let me stick my finger in your ass.
35:35How can they let you do it?
35:36Well-
35:37I've heard men say, oh no, no, no, no, no, but they coming down here to you.
35:40And that's where the down low comes into play.
35:43Talk to me about that.
35:44Okay.
35:45I'm confused.
35:46Certain guys like certain things, but they don't want to be called gay or they don't want to be called, you know, like a faggot or they don't want to be called because females are quick to, you know, label a certain person based on their sexuality.
35:58Oh.
35:59You understand what I'm saying?
36:00And we, we like, being that we're already out there, we're already a part of that world, we like to, you know, we'll do things like that as far as to get our money.
36:08You know what I'm saying?
36:09Okay.
36:10We'll do things like that or whatever the case may be.
36:12And so females, they feel they don't, like I said, they don't want to overstep that boundary because if they do, then they'll label their men as something as far as being gay.
36:19Oh, and the men know that.
36:20The men know.
36:21And they already know that.
36:22Are you a faggot or something?
36:23Because if you're a male and you ask a female, okay, I want you to suck, I want you to eat my ass.
36:27I want you to finger pop me.
36:28A female is going to automatically nine times out of ten say, are you gay?
36:31Or say, are you, you know what I'm saying, you a homosexual or something like that or whatever the case may be.
36:35Or they're going to be curious and questioning themselves should they be with the person.
36:38You understand what I'm saying?
36:39And sometimes guys will be with females just so they can, you know, portray that image of being a heterosexual male.
36:56Adam, where are we now and what's going on down here?
36:59We are still in the heart of downtown Newark.
37:01Okay.
37:02But we are on the opposite side of town.
37:04Oh.
37:06This is more like what's known as the butch queen stroll.
37:09Or this is a place where men come to provide sex services to other men.
37:16What kind of population wants the butch queens?
37:18Typically, the person who wants, who comes down here to want to have sex with the butch queen is the male who is attracted to young,
37:27who's attracted to other men or young boys or men who look like typically passable, passable, passable males.
37:36Okay.
37:37Are typically some of these men married and have relationships?
37:39Oh, definitely, definitely, definitely.
37:41People who come, both people who are looking for the sex and the people who are doing the sex, sometimes they're married.
37:47Sometimes, some people do it just for the pleasure of it.
37:50They could be married to a female and enjoy having sexual activities with men and come down here and do it.
37:57What's out here for you?
37:58There's nothing out here for me.
38:00I come here sometimes, like every, blue moon, just relax.
38:05I just sit there and just be sitting.
38:08I mean, I know what's going on.
38:10I know what it's about.
38:11What is going on?
38:12Tell us what's going on.
38:13I mean, it's prostitution, basically.
38:15Oh, okay.
38:16Men prostituting.
38:17Right.
38:18For men.
38:19So, I guess, when you come down to the stroll, you come to check other people out to see, like, is it entertaining to you?
38:26I think it's just the fact that because I'm not doing what I should be doing, it's the fact that I know what's going on.
38:31So, that's more of the curious things.
38:33I know what's going on, but I'm not here for what's going on.
38:36So, you know, has anybody, because I know, you know, from Broadway in Newark, I used to teach over there at the schools.
38:43One time, I was a track coach over there at the school, and me and some track girls were going home afterwards.
38:48And, you know, you have prostitutes over there.
38:50Oh, yeah.
38:51A man tried to pick me and the track girl up by mistake.
38:53Right.
38:54So, let's talk about that.
38:55All kinds of folks come out for all kinds of reasons.
38:56Oh, yeah.
38:57I mean, I would say, I mean, because I don't come here that much, but I would honestly say, on the real, that I have been with, like, two people.
39:05Okay.
39:06But it wasn't for, like, the price that they charge down here.
39:11Okay.
39:12So, it's about the money.
39:13If I'm going to do something, I'm not going to do nothing for no $20, $30, so.
39:16So, what was the price?
39:17I mean, I got, like, $150, so I'm, like, you know, you know, it was, like, cool, but I'm not going to just, like, sell myself out like that, so.
39:25So, it was more like, you know, y'all hooked up.
39:28You know, here you go.
39:29Like, just a guy you might have liked or might have liked you.
39:31I mean, they just pulled over and said, you know, I got time.
39:34I said, I got time, too.
39:36So, the key thing was, I got time?
39:38Yeah.
39:39I got time means what?
39:40I got time.
39:41I got time and I got money.
39:42That was the whole thing.
39:43So, if you got time and money, I got time and money.
39:45Time and money.
39:46So, I ain't, you know.
39:47No, I got time and I need your money.
39:48So, that's what that was, you know.
39:50Also, that only happened twice?
39:51Yeah, twice.
39:52Tell me about those two incidents, those two situations.
39:53What were the guys like?
39:54What did they look like?
39:55What were they looking for?
39:56It was a white guy and a black guy.
39:57One was the white guy sitting here at the time.
39:58He was a white guy.
39:59The other guy was a black guy.
40:01Just, you know, I just thought it was a conversation.
40:04It didn't even really, like, be sitting around talking, so.
40:08I mean, I've been approached a lot, but like I said, I just won't do it unless I want to do it.
40:13Right.
40:14If you don't mind, you know, giving some details, what specific things did the guy want for 150, sexually?
40:20I mean, basically, just oral sex.
40:22I mean, he wanted, like, you know, just to oral sex on me, you know.
40:25But no intercourse?
40:26No.
40:27Basically, it's all about, you know, just time.
40:30What would you say to women?
40:32Because, you know, if a woman was to see this and they would say, wow, is my man coming down there?
40:37I mean, it's not necessarily speaking of your two experiences, just period.
40:40What would you say to them about why their man might be coming down here for anybody?
40:46What's that all about?
40:50Any tips, any advice, any insights?
40:54Well, I can say I'm a married man.
40:57Men who have sex with men all have different views about being called the word fag.
41:04A lot of these men don't think the same way about this identification.
41:09Is fag an acceptable term?
41:11No.
41:12For gay men?
41:13No, we're not cigarettes and we're not female assholes.
41:16That's my woman.
41:18I mean, you know, I would never, you know, sit down and have a conversation with somebody and be like, man, faggot, you better get that shit out.
41:26You know, that's one thing, you know, even coming here, that I just, like, really don't do, really don't feel.
41:33I mean, you know, like, y'all sit down, y'all talk to each other, y'all be like, bitch, this thing, all this other bullshit.
41:38No, no.
41:40I won't do it.
41:41I won't do it.
41:42I won't do it.
41:43And if somebody wants to do it to me, they can do it behind my back, like, I'm sure they've been doing it, okay?
41:49But still, I don't, you know, to me, in my opinion, that is totally unacceptable.
41:55Like, when me and a friend was walking down the street one day, we said hi to this guy walking with his three daughters, you know.
42:02She was like, how you doing?
42:03And we was like, fine.
42:05And she was like, her father just came out of nowhere.
42:07What you mean, how they doing?
42:08They fucking faggots.
42:11So, me and my friend politely turned around, like, who the hell is you talking to?
42:15You will get your ass kicked out here, okay?
42:18I will put my keys between my knuckles real quick, okay?
42:22And that'll be the end of it.
42:25But when you hear there's so much coming up, you just, from certain people, you just don't allow them to even say that to you.
42:30And I'm pretty sure you'll make it known to that certain person, but you can't talk to them like that.
42:34You're not one of my kids' girlfriends, so don't even think about twisting your lips, even talking like we're that close.
42:39We're a distance.
42:40And, I mean, growing up, and all you heard was fag this and fag that.
42:44You just, I mean, it's gonna always be in your vocabulary, but we just found an obvious way to use it in reference to hurting somebody.
42:52We just use it in our general everyday conversation.
42:54Because, you know, and I feel as though if you can talk about it and break up your conversation, you're comfortable with yourself and what people say to you, rather than here on the street.
43:02Because I don't care about what anybody says about me.
43:04When you pay my bills and buy my clothes, then your words are hurt.
43:07But until then, your words don't bother me.
43:10When people say that word, that don't hurt me.
43:12I ain't gonna wanna fight, it don't hurt me because it's just a word.
43:15You ain't put your hands on me.
43:16Say what?
43:17You watching us do this?
43:18What word?
43:19Homo.
43:20Faggot.
43:21Me.
43:22Fruitcake.
43:23Fruitcake.
43:24Me.
43:25I hate them all.
43:27They're just words.
43:29Well, I feel the word faggot out of the gay setting hurts.
43:34I know, like, if I hear it.
43:37Like, unless I was in school.
43:40Like, I used to call everybody bitch or cooch or whatever.
43:43I was walking down the hall.
43:45But out of that setting, out around my peers, that shit hurts.
43:49Either an old man or a woman, look at that faggot bitch or something.
43:53That shit, you got so wild.
43:56Shit.
43:57Honey.
43:58Honey.
43:59That shit hurts.
44:01Because I'm not no fag anyway.
44:03I may act like a, you know, I may have characteristics of a female, but shit.
44:08I be doing fags.
44:11I ain't scared.
44:15Coming out from the down low is very painful for men.
44:19A lot of times, these individuals have to face their job, their family, their friends,
44:26their religion and spirituality, and not even to mention rumors.
44:31Well, the road for these men was no different.
44:34Coming out was never something that I planned to do, want to do, had the desire to do,
44:38and it was something I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever do.
44:44Because I know that coming out had its implications, had its consequences,
44:50and I could never imagine myself back then dealing with the consequences of coming out to my family.
44:56Coming out would have meant being dismissed and isolated and not liked and hated
45:03and stereotyped and thrown away and all those things.
45:07I knew what coming out meant.
45:09And therefore, in my world of worlds, in my perfect world, in the world of me dating young men
45:15and having females as friends on the side that I faked as my girlfriends,
45:20that would have never happened to me.
45:22As a black, you know, Caribbean male or a male of Caribbean experience,
45:26you know, I risk a lot in coming out and owning my own sexual orientation.
45:32You know, I risk my family's acceptance, you know, definitely being thrown out in the street
45:38because that's the experience of many of my peers.
45:41You know, I risk abandoning my faith, and I've since abandoned my faith.
45:46I'm no longer Pentecostal.
45:48If anyone were to ask me, I would definitely say the temple of the Lord is within me
45:53and it's not a physical structure or institution.
45:55Other things that, you know, I've sacrificed or gave up or paid the price for coming out, you know,
46:03I lost a good number of my heterosexually identified friends for fear that they would be stigmatized
46:12by hanging out with someone who was perceived or even openly identifying as gay.
46:17But that's okay because in life we carry a lot of baggage.
46:21And oftentimes, you know, you have to relieve yourself of that baggage in order for you to grow.
46:26My coming out story is something that is really kind of near and dear to me,
46:32and even years later I think about it.
46:34I'm glad that I'm looking back now.
46:36Of course, I can say I'm glad that it happened and stuff.
46:39But as I was going through it, it was like, oh God, it was, I felt that it would never end
46:45and the world was coming to an end.
46:47I was dating somebody at 16, 17.
46:51I was dating somebody and I had been in love.
46:53It was a male.
46:54I was dating secretly on the side.
46:55He'd probably been around my age.
46:58And I was in love.
47:00I think that, you know, it's that first puppy love that you ever get,
47:03that first puppy love where we're going to be together forever on the down low or secretly
47:07and nobody's going to know and we're going to last forever and ever and ever and ever and ever type of love.
47:13Not knowing that men are dogs regardless if you're gay or straight or whatever.
47:16We would write, like as young people do, secret love letters with each other.
47:20And we had cards and pictures that we would celebrate our third month anniversary.
47:25You know, those little things that you do when you are, when you're young and that puppy love,
47:29you're in that puppy love stage.
47:32At that time in my life, I was living with my grandmother and my aunt in a home,
47:37in their home out in Queens, in a two bedroom home out in Queens.
47:41I went out one day or something like that and my nosy, nosy, nosy ass grandmother,
47:47I don't know what she was doing, but I had all my secret papers and stuff in my closet,
47:53hidden under a box in a bag in a da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
47:56How or what they were doing, going through my stuff, I'll never know.
48:02But I know that they went through my stuff and they found a letter or something.
48:08A letter and a picture.
48:10And the way that the letter was situated, the wording of the letter,
48:14and the specific picture that they found of he and I,
48:18there was no way that I could deny that this person and I weren't together
48:23or there was no type of homosexual relationship going on
48:27because clearly the letter said, I love you, I miss you, I can't wait to see you.
48:32And the picture showed us embracing in some kind of intimate position.
48:36We weren't naked or anything, but there was really no way in denying it.
48:40And I think part of them wanted to hear me deny it,
48:43and they wanted the security of me saying, well, no, it's not what you think,
48:47and if I could probably, I think that looking back, they probably even wanted me to give them,
48:52oh, no, well, what it was is they were looking for that response.
48:57And by that time I had been going through a lot in my mind,
49:00and I had been going through this whole sexuality piece,
49:03and it was just too much for me, and it was just too much, and I couldn't deny it.
49:07And part of me was angry that they had went through my stuff,
49:10and they asked me, well, are you gay?
49:14My aunt asked me, are you gay?
49:17And I reluctantly said yes.
49:21And that's when really the beginning of all hell breaking loose took place in my family.
49:25I had fully came out basically in November of 2001
49:32at Thanksgiving dinner with my family.
49:35My extended family, my soon-to-be family was also there,
49:38and I just said, I said, listen here, family,
49:40I mean, y'all have been around with me for so long,
49:42I mean, 21 years is a long time, basically.
49:45I assume we're going to be entering our 21st year,
49:48my 21st year in January.
49:51My mother's not here.
49:52I mean, you know, people are getting born and stuff like that.
49:56I have something to tell you, basically.
49:58I've basically been hiding, though.
50:00So everyone thought that maybe I was hiding like a dark secret or a criminal past or something like that,
50:04and I just came right out and said, listen here,
50:07you're talking to a homosexual family member.
50:11And it got sort of quiet.
50:13You know, it got real, real quiet.
50:15I mean, it was so fucking quiet in that house, basically, though.
50:19You know, I'm not saying you could hear a pin drop, though,
50:21but you could probably hear the mouse eat the cheese, basically, in the mouse hole.
50:25That's how quiet it was, you know.
50:27You know, the first person that said something was my father, though,
50:32and my father insulted my grandmother.
50:34He said, see, that's what you get.
50:36You know, I didn't raise him like that.
50:38That's what you all did to him.
50:39You turned him into a faggot and everything like that.
50:42And then my brother's ex-wife's family, I mean, the mother and the grandmother said,
50:47you know, that's not right.
50:48That's an abomination against God.
50:50You're all going to go to hell.
50:51And they just started a whole big-ass debate,
50:53and they started talking about each other in the household and everything like that.
50:55I said, listen here, it's not all that bad.
50:57It's not all that bad.
50:58You know, they started talking about my grandmother and everything like that, though.
51:01What my grandmother basically does, though, she was like, listen here,
51:04you all keep quiet in my house.
51:05I don't want none of this going on in my house and everything like that.
51:07This is my house.
51:08You all got to respect me.
51:09And no one ever, you know, sometimes takes my grandmother serious, though.
51:12So she was like, you know, I can still see it.
51:14I just started getting, I started tearing up and everything like that a little bit.
51:17You know, I sat down, and then I looked around my grandmother.
51:20I saw my grandmother get up, though, and she was going to the, you know,
51:22like to the dresser or the cabinet or something like that, though.
51:25And then she said, I got something, you know, she was walking,
51:27and she said, I got something for all you motherfuckers in here
51:29that don't want to respect me and everything like that.
51:30So she goes in there.
51:31She pulls out my mother's nickel-plated 45-millimeter weapon,
51:35shoots it up in the air.
51:36She was like, all you motherfuckers in here are going to give me some
51:38goddamn respect in my fucking house.
51:40So, and that's when it went quiet, though.
51:42She said, I want each and every one of you motherfuckers to get up out of here,
51:45and I want you to open that down.
51:46She told my grandmother, she said, I want you to, she said,
51:48I'm taking you to get up out of my house,
51:50otherwise I'm going to start capping bullets in your motherfuckers' asses in here, though.
51:53So it turned out to be a big mess in the whole damn house,
51:56and everyone left quickly as hell, I should say.
51:58But my grandmother didn't say anything, though.
52:01After the incident, my grandmother said, you know what?
52:03You know, you're still Clinton.
52:04You're still my grandson.
52:05You know, you do what you want.
52:07When I came out, I was in a group home.
52:10It was New Year's Day, and I called, like, my sister, my mother, my father,
52:18and my friends or whatever to let them know that I was gay or whatever.
52:24And it was so funny because I used to call this, like, my friend, his name was Michael,
52:30but I used to call this girl Michelle.
52:33So it would be like, okay, he's fucking a girl or whatever,
52:36but his real name was Michael, so I used to tell him all his stories about me or her,
52:40but it was really a him or whatever.
52:42So I told them, like, Michelle is not a girl.
52:45It's a dude, and his name is Michael or whatever.
52:48Like, my sister, that's my bitch.
52:50Like, she been, like, did what me, like, I don't know.
52:52She even knew I was gay before I even did.
52:54So she was like, I already knew.
52:56I was just waiting for you to come out or whatever.
52:59So I was like, oh, that made me feel good.
53:01I had been suspecting things, but, like, he really hadn't said anything to me.
53:05And I was like, I think he's gay, maybe, whatever.
53:08You know, if he is, I love him.
53:10I don't care what he does as long as he's happy and safe.
53:13Okay.
53:14So I was on a date.
53:16I was in the city, and it was in December.
53:18And he called me on my phone, and I'm on my date, and I'm like, what do you want?
53:21You calling me, bothering me, you know.
53:23And he said, Nicole, I'm gay.
53:26Just like that?
53:27No, I want to tell you something.
53:28No, he said, Nicole, I'm gay.
53:29Or are you sitting down?
53:30No, because Sharif is very, like, to the point.
53:33Like, he doesn't have time to dance around and stuff.
53:35He's very to the point.
53:36Okay.
53:37And I said, you're gay?
53:39And he said, yeah.
53:40I said, I know.
53:41He said, how did you know?
53:42I said, I know you.
53:43I was like, I know.
53:44And he was like, what?
53:46And I was like, it's cool.
53:47I was like, just be safe with whatever you're doing.
53:49He was like, you not mad at me?
53:50I was like, why would I be mad?
53:52I mean, if that's what you want to do, then it's okay.
53:56Your family has to give you the support.
53:58If they don't want you jumping off a cliff or running into the wrong situation,
54:03and then it's, well, why didn't you tell me?
54:07Well, you didn't listen.
54:09I listened.
54:10And you have to listen.
54:12A lot of parents don't listen.
54:14And adults don't listen.
54:16That's true.
54:17And you have to listen to the young people.
54:19You have to listen to the older people.
54:21Listen to what they're saying.
54:23It's the same as, just listen.
54:27And then seek clarity.
54:30And that means going and trying.
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