00:00Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club. I'm Chris Deesey and each week I'll be joined by a guest
00:17to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life. Each guest will reflect on
00:22the films which have meant the most to them over the years. And every week there will be a Kent
00:26Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that has a connection to the county.
00:32And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week. He spent 20 years building a successful
00:37career in television production and he has now turned his attention to writing his own stories.
00:43He is Dave Reed. Great to have you on the show Dave. Thanks for having me Chris. Well oh I don't know
00:49your films in advance but Seven this is a masterpiece. It is a wonderful film. It is
00:55pretty dark starting in the darkness with these choices. I just think it's absolutely fantastic.
01:01I think what David Fincher does with a fairly simple story is unbelievable. I mean I re-watched
01:07it recently and the first two scenes you meet Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt and by the end of
01:11those two scenes you know exactly who they are, what their dynamic is and it's off on this story
01:15that's based on the seven deadly sins. Yeah and I remember watching this when it came out and I'm not
01:20sure if I knew that there was a twist and obviously there's a significant actor who appears towards
01:26the end but it's a film that is also so beautifully paced and it's quite slow but that adds up to the
01:32tension and you have Morgan Freeman who's effectively saying I've had enough of this but he's like I
01:36can't let go until I've solved this but he's solving in a way the most gigantic and most metaphysical
01:45of cases on his last day. It's almost like cruel in its irony. Absolutely. I mean I think there's an
01:51argument that he's really the main character because he's the one that really undergoes an arc
01:56because Brad Pitt is kind of the same throughout. I mean I think he's fantastic in this. I mean I
02:02think this is one of his first roles where he kind of moved away from kind of Legends of the Fall
02:07and that kind of more like you know poster boy kind of you know movie star. Interview with the
02:14vampire all of that. Absolutely yeah and I think he really he's very good in this but his character
02:19doesn't change much whereas Morgan Freeman he commands the screen so brilliantly and he grounds it
02:25and kind of leads the audience along you know along the path of kind of working out which each of
02:31these sins are which I mean the staging of each murder scene is just unbelievable. It's almost as
02:37though Morgan Freeman's Detective Somerset is it's almost like he knows that something bad is going
02:44to happen but he's two steps ahead even of Brad Pitt who thinks with his gut and he can lash out
02:49whereas he's a very thinking person and we see him in a library and and then he manages to piece it
02:54all together. Yeah I think he he's very much I think John Doe the murder is five steps ahead I think
03:00you're right Morgan Freeman's a couple more and then Brad Pitt's kind of wandering around in the
03:04darkness and to see I think the ending is is what people will remember this for but I think even
03:09when you know what's going to happen at the end the build-up is so kind of relentless and the tension
03:14that builds and each murder scene makes it more and more horrific it's just fantastic. I think it's
03:19such a kind of influential film as well I think in the kind of the bigger landscape of 90s movies I
03:24think David Fincher he did Alien 3 which was an awful experience for him and then he came back and did this
03:29and he was never going to direct again after Alien 3 but did this so without this we would have no
03:34kind of you know Fight Club social network his whole career could have just been missed out and it's
03:40I just think it's fantastic and it's just it's timeless I don't think it's really aged. And also
03:45because we don't really know the city where it's set it's there's it's that sort of anonymity all the
03:50way through it which also means that it's easily transferable but also you're right because in a
03:56conventional film like this you'd have the detective who knocks down the doors and effectively
04:00gets the confessions by being brutal and violent but this is not that kind of film or at least
04:06it's showing us that's not going to work in this case and also it has a strong theological and
04:11historical backstory and it and for a film that is obviously made and certainly showed as I did at
04:18the time in the multiplex it's a very thinking person's film but it also really grabs you at the
04:23same time. Oh yeah I mean it's actually the beginning is quite cliche it's young detective
04:28who's not going to go solve the case you know it's almost lethal weapon in a way you know the
04:32maverick and the guy who's just waiting to retire but then it just takes you on this journey of horror
04:37and I think the city is such an interesting character in the film and they could be anywhere
04:41but also they could be I think there's an argument that they're in purgatory and that this is kind of
04:45they're actually because Dante's Inferno is obviously quite a huge influence on the on the film that they
04:48could be living that themselves and kind of John Doe is leading them along the path of kind of
04:53Horrors of Man really. But also to have a film where you have the antagonist where you have the bad
04:57person who's effectively more intelligent than anyone else but he is as you say five steps ahead
05:03but also in a very strange way he's the one if there's any redemption and there's not much in the
05:10film but but it's through the sense almost of them learning a lesson they don't want to learn
05:16but knowing how to respond to that at the end it's a very difficult film because almost as though we're
05:22thinking Brad Pitt please don't do what your gut tells you to do and he's being effectively shaped
05:29into into goaded into doing just that. Yeah he's this arch manipulator isn't he I mean he you have the
05:35first five murders and then you're kind of waiting for the next two and then in the film he hands
05:41like John Doe hands himself in and you're like well where does this go now and then the ending is
05:46such a massive gut punch and and I think I mean his methods are very not great but if you actually
05:54think about John Doe does he have a point that sin is kind of everyone looks away and and it's
06:00tolerated and accepted I mean obviously he is but he's kind of preaching I think all the best villains
06:05you can kind of go well yeah in a way I see where he's coming from there is that edge of oh my gosh
06:11he's he's not just doing it because he likes to kill people he's doing you know he has a purpose and
06:15and and that purpose at the end is very obvious and and kind of Brad Pitt completes his his message
06:21for him and I just that ending just doesn't it still hits even when you know it's coming. Well it is time
06:28now to move on to your second chosen film and you've gone for the big Lebowski.
06:35Bit of a change similar theme I think bear with me both detective stories um this one very very
06:43different um I remember when I first watched the big Lebowski I I was probably 19 or 20 and I just
06:50didn't I didn't get it it was straight over my head then I watched it again and I just just fell in
06:55love with it I think it's got that amazing kind of detective story where these random events keep
07:01happening and you kind of expect it all to come together in a neat package and it kind of doesn't
07:05but that's the genius of it I think is is kind of you bump into all these characters these fantastic
07:10characters it's not really a you know there's such a wonderful kind of list of supporting actors who
07:15kind of come in and add to the story and you're just following you know Jeff Bridges the dude who's
07:20this I think iconic just character who's just a mess really but also the last person who not just
07:28because he's not capable but also he's so indolent he's so lazy to solve this murder and I'm like you
07:34uh I went down to see it at the cinema when it came out but the print wasn't available so I had to watch
07:39the general with Brendan Gleeson as I recall oh yeah and I caught this on the small screen and I was so
07:44excited but I didn't get it and I'll be honest with you and it's taken me many viewings to realize
07:49that the film is it's a game in a way it's it's a Pandora's box and once you realize that you you can
07:56imbibe with it but it has a very the Coen brothers are very playful but it but it has a very sort of
08:02unusual vibe doesn't it yeah it's almost a farce it all starts with someone stealing the wrong
08:07person's rug and then it kind of evolves into this then kind of there's blackmail there's kidnapping
08:12but none of it really it's all kind of misunderstood and it's made of you know oh someone supposes this
08:17so they then do that which then causes this and I think it's just fantastic I I mean I could watch
08:22the characters you know John Goodman as his best friend Walter is just unbelievably funny as you
08:26were talking there made me think that it is very similar you're absolutely right to your first choice
08:31because there's about things that may be severed we won't go into details but here you've got the
08:34severed toe but it's the ridiculousness of it and at the end of the day he's just like you know hang on
08:39this is this is my prized possession and it's about a rug but but he's getting involved with
08:44people who are in positions of power one of whom has the same name as him but but the the funny bit
08:50of course is that he's out of his depth but he kind of inadvertently solves the mystery and that's
08:55because not because he's clever in any way just because he stumbles into it yeah he's kind of just
08:59bumbling around you know he's drinking white russians the whole time in his dressing gown and yet
09:04he somehow manages to piece these things together but then in the end it kind of all amounts to kind
09:09of nothing really you kind of finish and it's like oh there's no big it's kind of the opposite to
09:14sevens ending where it all builds massive crescendo whereas Lebowski is kind of like okay that kind of
09:19happened and because you're right because there's a voiceover isn't there and it effectively says
09:23life carries on and the dude hasn't changed one bit and it's effectively saying just chill out
09:29which is that you know judaism which has been developed a whole religion based on this film
09:34which is very playful but it's a joke but also people take that very seriously because that that
09:40that's a better form of religion than some of the more institutional forms that that we most
09:45associate with yeah i think you can read into this film an awful awful lot um and it has got this cult
09:52following of you know you know the dude abides and and be more dude and all that kind of thing um i mean
09:58for me i think it's interesting that he does meet these people who have power and money and kind of
10:04privilege and it's he's just manipulated constantly by every single person he meets um including you
10:11know julianne moore who kind of tricks him into getting her pregnant and the other Lebowski and then
10:17you know there's all these other people come in and manipulate him and he just kind of gets pushed
10:21and pulled in in in so many different directions but still kind of comes out all right in the end
10:27just because he doesn't really he's very kind of almost stoic about it he's very like well just
10:33kind of you know control what i can and and i just think he's a fascinating character and it the
10:39dialogue and and the interplay between other characters i think is just fantastic and really
10:44clever when you think that this is a film that uses the conventions of a detective film but you
10:48almost don't realize that it's only like talking to you now we realize that that's what's going on but
10:54when i first saw it all the incidental details of the ones that stood out i almost forgot that there
10:58was a plot yeah yeah it's a there's the bowling yeah and and kind of the whole i mean walter for me
11:05is just fascinating and every scene with him just is crackles but does he really add much to the plot
11:10because he's a he's a veteran isn't he and he's always talking about yeah so he's having to be told
11:15steady on calm down yeah he's just i don't think john goodman's been as good in anything and
11:20what a part to have but i think you look at the supporting cast philip seymour hoffman john
11:24turturro steve buscemi julianne moore i mean so many wonderful actors that kind of turn up and just
11:29add a little piece to this kind of jigsaw of a very strange detective story well that's about all the
11:34time we have for this first half of the show however before we go to the break we have a kent film
11:39trivia question for you at home what action film featured scenes shot at the citadel in dover is it
11:46a craven the hunter b the dark knight or c mission impossible fallout we'll reveal the answer right
11:54after this break don't go away
11:56hello and welcome back to kent film club just before the ad break we asked you at home a kent film
12:11trivia question what action film featured scenes shot at the citadel in dover i asked is it a craven the
12:17hunter b the dark knight or c mission impossible fallout and now i can reveal to you that the answer
12:22was in fact a craven the hunter production visited the citadel in dover to shoot the film's opening
12:28sequence most recently it has been used as a borstal prison and immigration detention center up until
12:34its closure in 2015 did you get the answer right well it is time now to move on to your next chosen film
12:41and you've gone for goodfellas oh yeah brilliant absolutely love this film uh this was i think the
12:50first corsezi film i ever saw and i think in terms of the way it opens with them driving along the
12:56you know the road i saw it i've seen it many times over the years and i saw it at the bfi uh only a
13:03christmas before last and really struck by the whole insider outsider you're in you're out what is it being a made person and what happens when you lose that identity at the end it's a fascinating
13:12immersion into the world of the mob that's breathtaking but at the same time you're also
13:17thinking ouch it's almost like what happens when it all falls apart absolutely i think as the audience
13:22member you are it very much it draws you in because it starts and it's it's all family and everyone's so
13:28friendly and kind and oh you're part of the gang and and you know it he blows up cars as a kid and then
13:35he comes you know becomes uh more and more drawn in and then as it progresses and then it everything
13:42starts to take a turn and you then realize actually what seemed very glamorous is in fact
13:48absolutely horrifying i remember there's a scene i must be quite near the end when uh ray liotta's in
13:55prison and his wife goes to robert de niro who's up to this point has been this wonderful father figure
14:02who's just got all the answers and you know looks after everybody and it their dynamic is very
14:07different and he kind of directs her to go up the street and there's some nefarious looking guys you
14:13know waiting up there and she gets very scared and i think from that point onwards it really shifts
14:19and it becomes actually quite scary and and you don't trust anyone and and it really i think embodies
14:26the journey of henry hill because it's obviously based on the on the true story and you what starts
14:32this quite glamorous you know interesting fantastic world you want to be a part of you're then kind of
14:38by the end you're like whoa yeah as the paranoia sets in but also it's like hedonism it's a great
14:44tragedy really because you've got them all these characters they can't believe their luck they've got
14:49all the you know whether it's um relationships mistresses money also the the vibe that they get from
14:58doing all their heists and the fact that they're effectively saying to the police you know you can't
15:03catch us we're untouchable yeah and then as you say at the end it's like actually no this is not
15:08going to work out and she knows if she goes into that warehouse the chances are uh that she's going
15:12to be whacked to use a term from the word and then the film is about that that turning point
15:18yeah the the downfall and i think it's i think i i will argue i think it's scorsese's best i think
15:24in terms of his the way he uses the camera the you know there's the very famous shot where they're
15:30going into the oh the copicabana and they go through the kitchen it's all one shot and it's
15:34fantastically done and a scene with de niro where they use i think sunshine of your love
15:39or is it layla i can't remember where the it he's sitting there and he's deciding that he's actually
15:45going to they do a big robbie and he decides he's going to kill everyone and the camera just glides
15:49down the bar and he can just see de niro sitting there with a cigarette and basically deciding to
15:54turn on everyone and i think the way he uses that and the way the story just draws you in and then
16:02kind of yeah shows you there are consequences these guys aren't untouchable it's all kind of it's
16:08all a big fallacy that they've created for themselves but eventually you know everything will catch up
16:14with them and the clever film because it's not overtly it's not a preachy film but it's a film
16:19that also effectively says to the audience well now you've you're complicit in this that you've
16:25followed us down this path and you've in you've laughed along with these characters and you know
16:30funny how and all but but but then it's almost like saying now is the reckoning and and there's just
16:37that moment as you say when you're watching you're thinking actually hang on what have i what have i
16:41let myself in for and and unusual to have a film that really indulges the audience so much but then
16:49without being moralistic just pulls the rug out a little and says are you sure you're that this was
16:57you wanted to come down this far yeah and i think there's all the glamour and the kind of the fun and
17:02and the love of it are there's still these horrible moments of violent interspersed throughout like
17:07you know these people being murdered for not much reason some of them don't really do anything apart
17:13from this they do a robbery and then someone decides they don't trust them anymore and yet
17:18you just the longer the film goes on the more they happen and and that kind of eats away at you i think
17:24and i think like you say at the end then the kind of the rug comes out when he's in prison
17:28and it's like oh actually they're all actually all out for themselves all of this we're a big family
17:33we're all you know in it together and we all look after each other yeah i mean the score you mentioned
17:39layla i'm tony bennett the rags to riches which is ironic it's the other way around almost because
17:43because that and at the end what i'm really struck by it's almost like he gets to live in the witness
17:50protection program a normal person's life and it's like hang on a normal person's life and of course
17:56because he's a made man somehow this this isn't so glamorous after all he doesn't want that i think
18:01yeah the line at the end is he ordered spaghetti and he got noodles and ketchup and he's still you
18:06know he's alive he's he's living i mean all of his all his other so-called friends and family are
18:11either dead or in prison but it's not enough for him he's had this kind of taste and yet it's almost
18:15like he hasn't seen the error of his ways and i think in the end you kind of think like because i
18:19think throughout it you kind of are on his side the more it goes on the more you think oh you know
18:24come on henry yeah well it is time now to move on to your final chosen film and you've gone for
18:30monty python and the holy grail yeah again bit of a different one um this is i the first film
18:39that made me ever cry with laughter i remember watching it with my my brother and it was the scene
18:44um do you know the scene with the black knight where he's he's there and he's saying none shall pass
18:50and and he slowly gets his arms and legs cut off by king arthur but refuses to give in and i i'm a
18:57huge fan of monty python i think life of brian i think there's more of a message i think it's a bit
19:01more pointed but this has a real special place in my heart because it's just i mean it's chaos but
19:06it's genius but it's also what they're sending up as with life of brian they're sending up something
19:10this is what made in the 70s but there's a sense in which they're effectively saying there's something
19:16about their own the python's own education their britishness it's like the carry on films where
19:22they go abroad but here like they're they're set in different locations different time zones
19:25and different eras but it's a film where they're also ribbing all of that but does so in a way that
19:31feels intelligent and faithful but also being absolutely as you say stupid absolutely yeah i think
19:37that the juxtaposition of of humor is is so interesting i think that there's one scene at the
19:43beginning where there's kind of two peasants in the mud just collecting mud and a man and a woman
19:50and the woman's like oh there's some lovely filth down here and then it turns into this other guy
19:54dennis then attacking the whole idea of royalty and how king arthur is saying he's king because a
20:00woman threw a sword at him from the lake and it's a very dense obviously very intelligent
20:05speech by this peasant but next to the absurdity of them just collecting mud and that kind of sums up
20:11the film i think there are some very cutting interesting insights amongst kind of you know
20:16a scene where they build a trojan rabbit and yeah but but also and this is the irony and it's similar
20:22to perhaps some of the other films we've been talking about like seven it's almost like it goes
20:26against the grain of what you would expect but it's and it's far more intelligent for being so silly
20:32it's a curious imbalance but it works absolutely i mean i think it's when i first watched it i i did
20:40i didn't really know what i was watching i'd never seen a film like it where there are jokes in the
20:45credit scenes and the the speech i was saying with with the peasants in the mud i didn't understand a
20:51word of that i was you know probably 14 and i've never seen anything like this film and then the ending
20:57is just it the film just stops but there is a message there i think that's the the genius of
21:04of python is that they can somehow do these you know they do a musical number and yet they can still
21:09comment on how unfair medieval life was and kind of how the monarchy is is anointed by god but what
21:16does that really mean and is that a fair way to you know rule a country because when you think of all
21:20those like horrible histories it's it's totally modeled on this but and that's very much an educational
21:25tool it's like but let's do something silly but we're going to learn a valuable lesson and i think
21:30that's the thing and also in a way different from my own education over the years when you know
21:34thinking back this is clever because it like with goodfellas it hooks you in but but also you come
21:40away thinking i've learned something i didn't know anything about king arthur or camelot or in the
21:44case of the life of brian very similar it's strangely weirdly faithful almost to the the the vibe
21:51of should we say of the ear of the first century but at the same time seems to be as much a criticism
21:56or a critique of 1970s britishness yeah absolutely i think it's it works on many different levels and
22:03it can very easily be watched and maybe dismissed as i was just python stringing along a load of sketches
22:11together but it really holds a mirror up to the kind of madness of that time and there's the scene of
22:17where they're trying to work out if a woman's a witch and they go through this kind of incredibly
22:21convoluted way of working out where it ends up if she weighs the same as a swan then she must float
22:27which means she's a witch and they're all like yeah they're celebrating their their genius it's like
22:33that's absolutely insane but that kind of thing happened it was you know if you could float you're a
22:39witch if you drown you weren't but you're still dead it's unbelievable and it was only women this was
22:44done to which i think you know is is also very interesting but also very similar to the
22:50conversation about goodfellas it's it's pointing a finger at the audience and saying you're laughing
22:53or with seven it's almost like you're you're getting caught up in this thriller but it's really
22:59saying be careful because it's like what are you laughing at and i think that's probably why it's
23:05endured after all these what 50 plus years i think very much so and i think also the comedy is
23:10well done and is probably quite so silly that it endures over time as well so i think if the comedy
23:16hadn't aged well then the message would be lost because people wouldn't really engage with the
23:20comedy but i think because it's so funny people are you know you're engaged in the story you want
23:24to see what's happening next and then you are able to kind of educate a bit as well well i'm afraid
23:29that's all the time we have for today but before we go if you live in kent and want the chance to share
23:34four films of your choice reach out to us at kmtv and you might be invited in to be my next guest
23:40but for now many thanks to dave reed for joining us and being such a brilliant guest
23:44and many thanks to you all for tuning in until then that's all from us goodbye
23:49you
24:00you
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