This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Dirk Wickenden to discuss the films; The Russia House, American Blue Note, Enemy Mine, and Lilies of the Field.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club. I'm Chris Deesey and each week I'll be joined by a guest
00:18to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life. Each guest will reflect on
00:23the films which have meant the most to them over the years and every week there will be a Kent
00:27Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that has a connection to the county and now let
00:34me introduce you to my guest for this week. He is an autodidact in various things a saxophonist
00:39and tutor as well as a film music historian and a published author. He is Dirk Wickenden. Great to
00:47have you on the show Dirk. Pleasure to be here. Pleasure to meet you and so I don't know your
00:51films in advance. Ah, The Russia House. What is this? 1988? 1990. 1990. At least released in 1990. Sean Connery, Michelle Pfeiffer? Correct. That's correct, yes.
01:00So it was directed by Australian Fred Skepsy who directed things like The Chant of Jimmy Blacksmith,
01:07A Cry in the Dark, Iceman and Roxanne. The screenplay was by the playwright Tom Stoppard from John
01:16LeCurry's novel of the same name. John LeCurry is the pen name of David Cornwell and I didn't know I did a name for his pen but...
01:23So basically the story is that a Russian beauty named Kati Orlova, she wants to pass state secrets
01:31from a scientist friend to the West and she chooses Connery's character, Bartley Blair, who's a hard-drinking
01:38book publisher who the scientists met at a Soviet writer's village and that's basically the gist of the film
01:44and there's shenanigans, spy stuff. Basically I'd say a spy film for people who don't like spy films
01:51and it's a romantic film for people who don't like romantic films. And that's often the way that it's
01:55that hybrid, that intersection. Correct, yes. Because there are many films like this where you sort of
02:02think, oh I don't think it's quite for me, but you realise that you get under the skin of the characters
02:07or you realise that, and there are a lot of World War II films, there's one with Melanie Griffith and Michael
02:13Douglas set in the Second World War and I thought first of all, oh this is a war film, is it my cup of tea?
02:18But it was like a beautiful romance, even if the critics panned it. But what makes this particular
02:23one stand out? Do you think that it's the spy or the romance that perhaps, albeit unexpectedly,
02:28gets you embroiled in the story? I think it's the amalgamation of the two and Michelle Pfeiffer's
02:36Russian accent is spot on. She is Russian. The accent, to me as a viewer, is perfect. You think
02:46she's Russian, you know, she did an excellent job. Connery is at his most believable, naturalistic best
02:51in the film. You just believe he is his character. You know, a bit world-weary, worn, and his apotheosis,
02:59I would say. It's his best film role, without a doubt. And I ask that because, of course,
03:03this is post-Bond. I mean, obviously he returned in 83 for Never Say Never Again. But he's often
03:10been playing variations. If it's even entrapment with Catherine Zeta-Jones, you kind of feel it's
03:15building on the whole tapestry of working in international espionage. That's right, yes.
03:19But the Russia house, does this sort of, well obviously you've answered that question already,
03:26but does it kind of cement the whole, you know, Sean Connery persona?
03:31I think so. He had a very magnetic screen personality. You know, he commanded the screen
03:36whenever he was on it. But yeah, he's just had this personality you couldn't help but like
03:40him. You know, whether he was a Scottish Berber chieftain, or a Scottish book publisher,
03:47or a, you know, he didn't worry about his accent, maybe when he did Humphrey at October. But
03:52he just commanded, he had this great presence, and you had to watch him.
03:56And you also see it with actors like that, where they're in, you know, the later stages
04:01of their career. Because it's that screen presence. In a way, they don't have anything
04:05to prove. And it's their stature. And you also notice that Harrison Ford is also good
04:09at that. Almost just by standing still, or just the movement of a lip, they command so
04:14much power. Because in their younger incarnation, should we say, you know, they have to sort of
04:19make their mark. But it's the fact that they have that, almost that, you know, the characters
04:23are world-weary. But as actors themselves, they've already established all that they've
04:28achieved. So this, you use the word apotheosis, seems a very fitting word.
04:32I think so. In this context.
04:33Yes, I would agree. It's also the film, this is the personal touch, that made me want to
04:37play saxophone. I've been playing it for over 30 years now, including teaching it, as we
04:41said the beginning. So basically, the composer George Goldsmith is his most mature work, so
04:46it's Connery's most mature work, it's Goldsmith's most mature work. Branford Marsalis play soprano
04:52sax throughout it, both in the underscore, and also as the source of music, he's dubbing
04:57Connery's performance, when Connery's playing on screen. And the late session pianist Mike
05:04Lang, if you've heard a Hollywood score, or a pop record, he's probably played on it. He
05:09was very kind enough to really expand at length on his work for the score and his piano work,
05:16and also guiding Gerry in the jazz idiom. And he told me a lot of information for when I did
05:23the CD booklet notes for an expanded edition of the soundtrack in about 2017. So I've really
05:29gone into depth on this thing, especially with the music. The music does make the film
05:34and the atmosphere. It was one of seven Connery films that Goldsmith did, so I don't know
05:40if Connery had any influence in selecting Gerry for each score, but each one was quite unique
05:46and spoke to the Connery character in this. The sax represents Connery, the electronics and
05:54the double bass, which hops about, that's basically speaking to the espionage element and the strings,
06:01and Balalikas, it's synthesised Balalikas, are speaking of the romance underneath it all. And
06:07I think it's a very important film in Goldsmiths and River. And in general, you know, composers
06:11and filmmakers today could learn a lot from listening to this score. And I think it is a major
06:15part of that.
06:16Well, it is time now to move on to your second chosen film. And you've gone for American Blue
06:23Notes.
06:24Have you ever seen it?
06:25I haven't. Hence the pause, as I was reading that.
06:28This was from 1989, but he didn't find a distributor until 1991. This is an indie film. It's directed
06:37by Ralph Toporoff. It was written by Gilbert Girion. And it's sort of based on Ralph's life
06:46as a musician. This is set in the 60s. It's a jazz quartet, struggling, trying to get the
06:51other gig. But they're stuck between bar mitzvahs and weddings and so on and so forth. People
06:55can get big jazz gigs if they ever do.
06:58It's quite funny. Again, it's very naturalistic, perhaps more so than the show's. Peter McNichol,
07:04who's in Dragon's Day and Annie McBeal, he's a socially awkward bandleader and alto saxophonist.
07:10And his love interest is played by an actress and dancer known as Charlotte Damboise. She's
07:15a ballerina in the film. And you've got some really good characters in there that make you
07:19laugh. It's a general film. It's almost like a series of vignettes. And it's just this natural
07:26humour. And I could see myself in the chasing down the next gig scenario.
07:30Well, that's what I wanted to ask you. Because obviously this is a film that you, so we already
07:35know from the Russia house that it's a film that got you into playing the sax. So is this
07:41a film that you, so you mentioned 1991, it had its release. Did you see this at the time
07:47or did you discover it much later? This turned up in the early 90s, so after
07:5091, on television. My sister was in German at the time and it turned up on the 40s television
07:58over there. And she mentioned it to me, knowing I was playing saxophone. And luckily it came
08:02onto British television. And it was just, I thought, yeah, I can see this. Even though it
08:11was in the early days of me playing saxophone, I can see me in this. And it was just so, you
08:18couldn't help living this film with them. Because it was so natural. There was nothing
08:23forced.
08:24But that's the way, isn't it? Sometimes in watching that you can see yourself in the
08:29characters in the film. But it kind of works both ways. I bet you grow up with them. In
08:33other words, there may have been a point when you thought, right, this is the life I aspire
08:36to. But you may already have been living that life when you saw the film. I'm interested
08:41at that point of intersection when that came for you.
08:45I think it was in the early days when I was playing saxophone and it was just when I was
08:50going to start getting into performing publicly. And yeah, it is hard to break in and get your
08:55foot in the door. And that's what you see in the film, you see. Even though they've been
08:59playing as a group for a while, they want that big break and they're not getting it. And it's
09:04just so funny. There's a funny line in it, basically, where each agent promoter, it's
09:09a running joke, the question they always ask is, have you got a car? And you say, yes,
09:14I've got a car. That's a prerequisite in the gig. They need cars. And you've seen driving
09:18around and things like this. It's just, it just passes by this film. There's no airs and
09:26graces about it. It's just so, the camera's there and it's just so natural. And you're living
09:31their lives with them, basically.
09:34And when you were watching this then, did you kind of feel that you wanted to, and you
09:38probably, I'm guessing the answer will be forthcoming, that you then wanted to look
09:43at the backstory. You know, who wrote this? In other words, this is so intensely autobiographical
09:48for you, watching this. Did you learn more about the experiences of the people who made
09:54it and why they made it?
09:55To a certain extent. There's been various interviews with Ralph in the years since.
10:02Also, it was interesting that basically, it's just disappeared again. And it's such a shame
10:07that I can't show this to more people. And then it resurfaced at the 2013 Tribeca Film
10:12Festival in New York. Amazon revolved in pressing MOD DVDs of it, and I managed to snag one.
10:18So now it's there in my collection, and I watch it numerous times. And I say to people, you've
10:22loved to see this film. It's not on streaming. It hasn't been broadcast on television. I've
10:26got this, I think it's Region 3 DVD. Watch it, watch it, watch it. You know, it's just
10:31a film, it needs to be shown. It's a lovely little film. It really is. And the music as
10:36well, both the diegetic music, that's the music that everyone in the film hears the band
10:43playing, and the extra diegetic music, the narrative music, the underscore, that's by Larry
10:48the anchor. And again, it just adds to the whole thing.
10:51And has it shaped your music playing as well? In other words, is there a sense in which,
10:56in watching this film, it has given, it has opened up your own horizons as to what you
11:01can do with the sax?
11:02I think so, because I was taught music years ago on violin by reading the dots. So that's
11:09my crutch, but I do play by ear as well. You know, when you hear good music, whether it's
11:14on a recording, or live, or in a film like this, it just inspires you. I've got to grab
11:19my sax, I've got to grab my piano, whatever you play. And you're inspired to push yourself
11:24further and still find something you haven't played before, and it opens up just a whole
11:30realm of possibilities in your playing.
11:32Well, that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show. However, before
11:36we go to the break, we have a Kent Film Trivia question for you at home.
11:53We'll reveal the answer right after this break. Don't go away.
12:02Hello, and welcome back to Kent Film Club. Just before the ad break, we asked you at
12:11home a Kent Film Trivia question. Margate Pier was recreated for which of these films?
12:17I asked, is it A. Dunkirk, B. Ammonite, or C. Last Orders? And now I can reveal to you
12:23that the answer was, in fact, C. Last Orders. Jack's mates say their last goodbyes on Margate
12:29Pier, but the town's pier was largely destroyed by a storm in 1978. Eastbourne Pier in East Sussex
12:35was used as the location's stand-in. Did you get the answer right? Well, it is time now,
12:41Dirk, to move on to your next chosen film, and you've gone for Enemy Mine.
12:47I have indeed, yes. This was directed, released in 1985, by Wolfgang Petersen. It was written
12:54by screenwriter Edward Kamara, who also wrote Ladyhawk, which is another favourite of mine,
13:00but we won't speak to that today. It is based on a war-winning novella by Barry B. Longyear,
13:07who then expanded it and then did two more stories, and it was in a huge tone called
13:12The Enemy Papers. And it's one I call science fiction with a heart. I've said that since
13:16seeing it back in the day. It's set during Interstellar War. It follows a human pilot
13:21named Will Davidge. It's played by Dennis Quaid. And he crashes on this planet, and it's inhospitable,
13:27and he discovers that he must rely on his mortal enemy, an alien drack, a reptilian creature
13:33named Jeriba Sheegan, played by Louis Gossett, Jr., who passed away a couple of years ago.
13:39Over time, the two form an unlikely bond, and Jeriba teaches Davidge about his central figure
13:50in the dreck faith, Shizmar, and his holy book, the Talman, which, learning from the author,
13:58was basically a take on the Talmud, the Jewish rabbinic book. So it holds up really well, this
14:08film. The make-up appliances are astounding. The model work is still very good. Even today's
14:14CGI days, this is proper model work, and it really holds up well, the volcanic planet. It's perfect.
14:20Because Wolfgang Petersen, of course, Dav's Boot is the film that launched his career.
14:24But in the 90s, he was making In the Line of Fire and Outbreaks and Air Force One, huge
14:31Hollywood productions. So where does this sit? And this is obviously in between that.
14:35Yeah, this is in the 90s, but it's filmed in studios in Bavaria. And basically, I think,
14:43when Richard Longtrain, the original director, was fired, they redesigned the dreck make-up,
14:47and Petersen then took it back into Germany, where he was obviously based then, even though
14:52it was a Hollywood film, released by Fox. And there was no way this film was going to make
14:56money after ditching the original footage, which has never been seen, which is very interesting.
15:02It's out there somewhere, I imagine. So I think he was still obviously a workman director.
15:06He was doing good things, obviously, like you were saying, Dav's Boot.
15:08And a never-ending story?
15:10A never-ending story, of course. And then, of course, he would then make a big leap to these
15:14big action epics, and all the money thrown at these things. I can't remember how much this cost to make,
15:20but, again, it's just a film that really speaks to me.
15:25Now, like the previous film, and even the Russia House to an extent, they're not films.
15:31And if you ask people to name their favourite Sean Connery films, people, in many cases,
15:35won't have heard of the Russia House. And Wolfgang Peterson, I'm familiar with most of his films,
15:40but I'm not familiar with this one. So just talk me through why this one, obviously, by the sound of it,
15:45you saw it when it came out. It's really stuck with you in, what, 40 years on?
15:50That's right. I bought the soundtrack LP back in the day.
15:54That was Maurice Jarre's score, who, of course, he was the father of Jean-Michel Jarre.
16:00And it's a very science fiction-y score in that there's lots of electronics early on,
16:04and then when the relationship opens up and things happen,
16:09it becomes more kestrel and just really works so well in painting the relationship
16:16as well as the landscape you're seeing and the storyline.
16:21And, in a way, the music touches on this faith element as well.
16:24That's an important part to me as well.
16:26When Shigun says to Davidge, asking what his big teacher is,
16:33for example, Shismar, you know, I would say, obviously, Jesus,
16:37Davidge says, Mickey Mouse, he says,
16:41because he doesn't like this guy, initially.
16:45So that's quite interesting that you're seeing faith painted through this fictionalised other religion.
16:53And it is a core part of the film.
16:57You've got the action, things like this, and the humour,
17:00and the typical science fiction elements,
17:02but faith is at its core, and that's an important part for me,
17:06and that's stuck with me all these years.
17:08And it sounds like, so, you know, music and spirituality,
17:11but it sounds like the score for this, the fact that you bought it at the time,
17:16is the primary lens to which you've interrogated.
17:20Very often it would be.
17:22So, maybe not so much now, but around this sort of period,
17:28the music would be the end.
17:29I'd say, oh, I like that composer.
17:31I'll give the film a go, and discover this wonderful film.
17:34At one time, when I was younger, I would only watch science fiction,
17:37and that was it.
17:39But then, through getting into film music, especially, say, Jerry Goldsmith's music,
17:44I'd then discover, you know, these other non-science fiction films.
17:50As you'll see from here, this is the only science fiction film I'm referencing today,
17:53because I thought to myself, I've got to have a science fiction film in there.
17:56But it ties in well with the other choices, even though, yeah.
18:02But, yeah, yeah.
18:03What's also interesting is that Terry Metallus, who was the showrunner on the 12 Monkeys series and Picard,
18:08he approached me because he knew of my love for Enemy Mine.
18:11He said, I'm, don't tell anyone at this time, it's been revealed now,
18:14I'm going to be prepping a remake, what do I need to read?
18:17I said, the Enemy Papers, but you've got to keep the faith element in it,
18:20and you've got to involve Barry Long here, and I know that when I last spoke to Barry,
18:24there was a contract in front of him to go through with a fine-tooth comb.
18:27So that'd be interesting to see what they can do.
18:29Well, it is time now, Dirk, to move on to your final chosen film,
18:34and you've gone for Lilies of the Field at Sidney Poitier.
18:38This is correct. 1963, he won the Best Actor Oscar for it,
18:43the first black actor to do so.
18:46I hope there'll come a time where we can just say actor, not black actor, not red actor,
18:52not green with pink spots actor, just an actor.
18:56We're not quite there yet.
18:58So this was based on William E. Barrett's 1962 novella,
19:01The Lilies of the Field, they dropped the the for whatever reason.
19:04He's an ex-GI handyman travelling around America in his station wagon,
19:10and he gets roped into building an adobe brick chapel for a group of German nuns,
19:19and they're eking out of living in Arizona.
19:22And he explores elements of faith, community and finding purpose in life.
19:26It was directed by Ralph Nelson, screenplay by James Poe.
19:30Ralph will go on to film years later a television sequel called Christmas Lilies of the Field,
19:36with the role taken, the main role of Homer Smith, who's the character,
19:41taken by Billy Dee Williams.
19:43So, as with my first choice, The Russian House, this was scored by Jerry Goldsmith.
19:50So this was my, into the film initially, Jerry film, let's watch it.
19:55Wow, I love this film.
19:57So he scored this, so this is what, 1963?
20:01That's right, so he'd, he'd, he started really getting bigger films.
20:06He did Basic Instinct, didn't he, in 92?
20:09Oh, in 92, something like that, yes, correct.
20:11So this was sort of a folksy sort of feel to it.
20:16It was based on Jester Heston's hymn song called Amen, or Amen as Americans say.
20:24And that forms a core part of the score that Jerry builds on.
20:30You hear Jester Heston dubbing Poitier singing.
20:35And it just works so well.
20:39It's a small film.
20:41No one wanted to finance this film.
20:44I think Nelson put his own money up to film it.
20:48At least some of his own money.
20:49And he put a lot of faith into it.
20:51And through faith, it got made.
20:54And it was a huge success.
20:57It made a lot of money through this small budget.
21:00And for people like me, it's remembered to this day.
21:03Barrett wrote a sequel called The Glory Tent, which wasn't filmed.
21:07And interestingly, I've written four Homer Smith stories,
21:12continuing his journey around America,
21:14using that template of finding work, faith element,
21:19and so on and so forth, humour.
21:22And I am in touch with the Barrett estate heirs
21:26to see about going official on these things,
21:29getting the rights to use the Homer Smith character in these stories.
21:33It just spoke...
21:34That's very recent I've done that.
21:35It's just because lilies of the film spoke to me so much.
21:38And it's very similar to your first choice in that in later years,
21:41I'm thinking of Sneakers in 92 Robert Redford film,
21:44he would appear in these spy films,
21:46and he would bring real gravitas to those.
21:49Yes, that's right.
21:50So you see the evolution in him in the world of Hollywood.
21:53But are there particular scenes in here that stand out?
21:58I'm guessing it might be to do with Jerry Goldsmith's score.
22:00Yes, putting the score aside,
22:04I think just the way he acts with these nuns,
22:09who are very straight-laced, et cetera,
22:12as their faith dictated.
22:16But there's, you know, you get a giggly nun, for instance,
22:20and it's just the way he interacts with them,
22:23and you can't believe he is doing this for free.
22:25He wants payment.
22:26There's one scene where Mother Maria, the Mother Superior,
22:33he presents her with this bill.
22:36She just says,
22:38I'll put this in the pocket.
22:39And they have this argument where she,
22:44he looks in his little Baptist Bible,
22:47talking about a worker who deserves his pay,
22:51and then Mother Maria grabs her big Catholic Bible
22:55and points to it,
22:58feigning that she doesn't really understand English,
23:00she does,
23:01and it's about the lilies of the field.
23:04You know, they tore, not holding the spear,
23:06and the birds of the air,
23:07to say, right, you don't need pay.
23:10You know, and it was just like an argument,
23:12and using the Bible to do this thing.
23:16And it was just, again, so inspired, so faith-driven,
23:21but then humanistic and humorous at the same time.
23:25Well, I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.
23:28But before we go, if you live in Kent,
23:30and want the chance to share four films of your choice,
23:33reach out to us at KMTV,
23:35and you might be invited in to be my next guest.
23:37But for now, many thanks to Dirk Wickendon for joining us
23:40and being such a brilliant guest.
23:42And many thanks to you all for tuning in.
23:44Until then, that's all from us.
23:46Goodbye.