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Delhi faces 5-year worst Diwali smog; NASA scientist flags 34,000 farm fires
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your prime time destination.
00:04News, newsmakers, talking points, our big talking point.
00:08The national capital of the country has just experienced its worst pollution day on Diwali after five years.
00:15In parts of Delhi, the pollution levels reached almost a thousand.
00:20Even as double fires are raging across Punjab and crackers continue despite Supreme Court orders.
00:27Tonight, our top focus and our special talking point is on the air emergency that's facing the country.
00:34India's leading environmentalist, Sunita Narayanan, will be among my special guests today.
00:40What are really the solutions? How long will we not get the right to breathe clean air?
00:46That's my top focus. But first, as always, it's time to get cracking with the nine headlines at nine tonight.
00:53Delhi records its most polluted Diwali in five years with the average AQI at 376.
01:01In parts of Delhi, it reaches almost a thousand.
01:05India Today's ground check finds Supreme Court norms flouted on Diwali night.
01:10Some monitoring centers go blank with data not recorded.
01:18As Delhi chokes on toxic air, political blame game intensifies.
01:23BJP points to Punjab's stubble burning.
01:26Opposition questions government measures to curb pollution.
01:30In Punjab, the surge of stubble burning continues.
01:35Mumbai and Thane banned rockets and aerial firecrackers.
01:40Mumbai banned till the 25th of November.
01:42Thane till January 8th.
01:44Orders follow a spate of fire incidents.
01:49The E20 petrol controversy spreads to Kerala.
01:52Kerala orders petrol testing after Karnataka alleges excess ethanol blending.
01:58Center and oil companies dispute the findings.
02:03NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang admits to affair with a senior executive at Megaspeed International.
02:11Alice Wong allegations of links to a Chinese intel network emerge.
02:15China rejects the charge.
02:17NVIDIA says no company secrets compromised.
02:21Karnataka Home Minister Priyank Kharge alleges that there are sung links to the murders of Gauri Lankesh and M.M.
02:29Kalburgi.
02:30He vows to put the accused behind bars within six months.
02:36Priyank Kharge has been targeting the RSS for a while now.
02:44Another police encounter in Bengal.
02:48Rape murder accused shot dead in Rai Ganj.
02:51Chief Minister Subendu Adhikari defense police action says police can't serve Rasgulla to rapists.
02:59DMC hitchback accuses BJP of Jangal Raj.
03:05Prime Minister Modi speaks to Ukraine President Zelensky discusses latest development in the Ukraine conflict.
03:13India reiterates push for dialogue and diplomacy offers support for peace efforts.
03:20And the 2018 cricket ball tampering scandal resurfaces after David Warner backs colleague Usman Khwaja's claim that the entire Australian
03:29team knew about Sandpaper Gate.
03:31Warner calls Secret Cricket Australia's investigation rushed and botched.
04:08But our top focus tonight and we are calling it what it should be called an air emergency.
04:14Delhi's pollution levels have once again spiked on Diwali day and today a day after they remain very severe.
04:22In fact several parts of North India remain covered by a blanket of smog.
04:28Some of the worst most polluted cities in the world at the moment as we speak are in the country.
04:36Remember this on Diwali day when the nation should have celebrated with firecrackers.
04:41We've seen firecrackers go well beyond the Supreme Court directives and we've seen a surge in stubble burning in farm
04:51fires in Punjab.
04:53The combination, the double whammy of these two factors means that Delhi faced its most polluted Diwali day in five
05:00years.
05:01The AQI on Diwali day in 2023 was 218, in 2024 it went up to 328, went up to 345
05:10last year.
05:11This year it was 376, that's only the average remember.
05:15The AQI for the day after Diwali though is 344, a slight improvement from 351 last year.
05:24Now the main pollutant this season is particulate matter 2.5 which means particles that are 2.5 micrograms or
05:32less per cubic centimetre in terms of density.
05:35Now our DIU team has prepared graphics that show that there is a sudden spike on Diwali day which you
05:44can see on the screen.
05:46In parts of the city the AQI jumped to 500, in parts it went up to 1000 and at this
05:55point the AQI is 384 which remember is only an average at the moment and is still very much in
06:03the very severe category.
06:06And therefore the fact is the AQI levels remain astronomically high in the national capital.
06:14375 frankly is unacceptable, it puts Delhi in the very severe category.
06:21The day has also seen a sudden jump in the number of farm fires in Punjab but I want to
06:29start today with Delhi.
06:31Because the fact is while Delhi celebrated Diwali with crackers, the crackers violated all the Supreme Court guidelines.
06:40There was very little enforcement and worse still and which is really what is should trouble us all is that
06:47in many of the recording centres the data went blank at midnight.
06:51Even though these data centres were monitoring the rising pollution.
06:57All of this is leading to question marks over the quality of governance and whether the government was trying to
07:03hide the data from the public.
07:05Our correspondent Shriya Chatterjee spent the entire night tracking just how pollution on Diwali night has left a city choking.
07:15Take a look.
07:21Delhi celebrates Diwali with dhoom, dhamaka and lots of dhooma.
07:31Fireworks clouded the national capital sky on Sunday evening.
07:39Most air monitoring stations in Delhi hit a PM 2.5 reading of 500.
07:45The maximum on Central Pollution Control Board website.
07:50At ITO live streaming board, the PM 2.5 numbers inched closer to 1,000.
07:59Just look at what this AQI monitoring station is clocking right now.
08:04This is Dwarka sector 8.
08:06PM 2.5 level above 1,500.
08:10The PM 10 level above 2,000.
08:14That is something which should scare all of us.
08:19On the ground, India Today Reality Check found serious gaps in pollution monitoring.
08:25Many of the stations did not record readings for several hours after midnight.
08:32We are now at Dwaraka, NSIT's AQI monitoring station.
08:36We are standing there.
08:38The board is basically the data of live monitoring.
08:43But now it's 12 o'clock.
08:47It's at night at Diwali.
09:02The rules were already set by the Supreme Court.
09:06Only green crack is allowed.
09:07That too, between 8.00 PM and 10.00 PM.
09:11But the two-hour window permitted was openly flouted.
09:17The pollution data shows Delhi's AQI on the day of Diwali was the worst in five years.
09:23The Supreme Court's decision to allow fireworks has reignited the debate on what takes precedence.
09:31Public health or religious festivals?
09:35With Sriya Chatterjee, Bureau Report, India Today.
09:46Complete lack of enforcement when it came to Supreme Court rules on firecracker burning.
09:53And worse still was Punjab, a state which had seen this year, at least in the early part
10:00of this harvesting season, a decline in stubble farm fires.
10:04But over the last week, they have been spiking.
10:06And yesterday, saw a crazy surge of farm fires, particularly in Tarantaran district.
10:13More than 1,200 farm fires in Punjab.
10:17Predictably, there's a blame game on.
10:20The BJP ruled Delhi says this is part of a giant conspiracy of the Aam Aadmi Party-led
10:26government in Punjab.
10:28The Aam Aadmi Party says the BJP should be looking after Delhi better.
10:33But our ground report comes from Punjab, from Kamaljeet Sandhu.
10:38Take a look.
10:44A double whammy for Delhi.
10:48The day the national capital celebrated Diwali with firecrackers also saw a jump in number
10:54of farm fires in Punjab.
10:57The state saw a single-day jump of 1,152 farm fire incidents, taking the cumulative count
11:03this year to 4,459.
11:06There are other states like Haryana, Uttar Pradesh, which surround Delhi and are closer in proximity,
11:12blaming these other states for stubble burning, saying Punjab is being unnecessarily being dragged.
11:20But when it comes to a number of cases, there seems to be an 80 percent drop as far as
11:26these
11:26cases are concerned.
11:27The Punjab police, however, claim there is a sharp reduction in farm fires this year.
11:48The sudden spike in stubble burning has sparked a blame game.
11:53Diwali ki sham ko thik 8, tari ko 12 so jaghe per parali jalne ki ghatna nôte ki gai.
11:58Iska matlab ki 10 guna vriddi, ek hi dhin mein kaisa ho gai?
12:01May bhagman taman ji se ye kaya na chahata ho ki aap turant is ki jhaanj karye.
12:04Kal sham ko 12 so jaghe per jahaan agh laghi hai, us per F.I.R. dals karye.
12:07Koi bhi viktiya ho, belkul chute bor raya ga, sare officer kanun te bande ho e nai ke.
12:14Balke pishle pan saal na de andar, aam aadvi paakdi sarkar ne sab to bad mashindri jadiya
12:20o panjab de kishanan na dati ya ki aur jide karke meh samadha jito ho e nadi koi cheej nahi
12:25hai ki.
12:25Stubble burning in Punjab is seasonal.
12:28Farmers claim that they set fire to prepare their fields for the next sowing season within the
12:33small time frame they have.
12:34For those few weeks during autumn, farm fires become a major cause of air pollution in North
12:40Indian cities.
12:41While the number of farm fires have come down over the years, a lot more needs to be done
12:46to incentivize and compensate farmers to solve the problem altogether.
12:51With Kamal Jeet Kaur, Bureau Report, India Today.
12:56Okay, my first guest tonight is India's leading environmentalist, Sunita Narayan of the Centre
13:03for Science and Environment joins me.
13:05Good to have you, Sunita, on this show.
13:08But it is the same story all over again, the day after Diwali.
13:13But I want some clarity.
13:15Do we blame this sudden surge of farm fires in Punjab for what has happened?
13:21Should we be blaming firecrackers taking place in complete defiance of Supreme Court
13:26orders, or is it simply a double whammy that's going to hit not just Delhi, but across North
13:32India and several parts of the country that are seeing a pollution spike?
13:36I think it's time we grew up and stopped asking even these questions.
13:41It's not about farm fire.
13:43It's not about Diwali.
13:45It's not about saying that, you know, it's one or the other.
13:50It's all of the above.
13:51And we know that.
13:53We know that every year.
13:54We know that this is a time when winter sets in.
13:59We have a lack of wind.
14:01Today, pollution levels are slightly lower, not because of anything government has done,
14:07not because farm fires have stopped, but because there was a little more wind,
14:11and because there was some heat, and so there was some dispersion.
14:15But we know this year, every three months, a season of despair is a combination.
14:22We have traffic on the road.
14:24We have farm fires that happen because farmers have a small window to operate.
14:30We have Diwali.
14:31We have winter.
14:32We have factories spewing out smoke.
14:38We have thermal power plants.
14:39We have everything.
14:40What we should be asking is, why are we not fixing it?
14:45Stop asking for the reason.
14:47Talk about what are we doing.
14:49And my question is, and my answer, frankly, to you is very simply, we're not doing enough.
14:57In fact, what governments are doing is to issue bans and think that the problem will go away.
15:03The Supreme Court, with all its wisdom, issues orders, which cannot be enforced.
15:10And, of course, we as human beings, I mean, I'm living in a colony where I can still hear firecrackers
15:17today.
15:17So you have to ask, what is happening to the elite, the educated?
15:22Do we not care about the right to clean air?
15:25We are burning money every time we burn firecrackers.
15:30And we know that this is polluting our children's health.
15:33And yet we do it.
15:35And we will blame the farmers.
15:36And the farmers will blame us.
15:38And then we will blame the car owners.
15:40Let's get this real.
15:52You know, it's interesting what you said that the middle class and the elite bursting crackers are blaming today the
16:01farmers for the surge in stubble burning.
16:03The farmers in turn will say that look at transport and look at the city life and what it's doing
16:10to the air, not just during Diwali, but around the year.
16:13But let's today look for solutions.
16:16Where do we start?
16:18You see, the Punjab government says we've incentivized farmers to stop stubble burning.
16:24Clearly, that's not worked.
16:26Certainly not in the last week in particular and the sudden surge that we've seen in the last 48 hours.
16:31The government of Delhi says we've introduced various grant measures to ensure that polluting cars, for example, can't enter the
16:40city.
16:41That's clearly not worked.
16:42So where do we start?
16:44Is part of the problem that we only wake up at this time of the year that we need a
16:49year-long national solution to this air emergency?
16:54And if so, where do we start?
16:56Well, I think we start firstly by not falling into the trap of tu-tu-meh-meh-meh of politicians.
17:02Let them do what they do.
17:04And that's fine.
17:05I cannot stop them.
17:07But I think my only request to all politicians is air pollution is very serious.
17:13Cooperate and take action year-long.
17:16What we are doing today is not even a band-aid solution.
17:20It is a complete farce, if I may use a very polite word.
17:26We know that none of these bans can be enforced.
17:30We know we need to act.
17:32And there's an action plan, Rajdeep.
17:35Don't ask me for what the solutions are.
17:37The government knows the solutions.
17:39We need to move very quickly towards a GST on gas, natural gas.
17:45We need to flood this region, as the Chinese did, in Beijing so that you can get clean fuel.
17:52You can make sure that no dirty fuel is burnt in Delhi or in its surrounding areas.
17:58We need to make sure that we have a mobility transformation.
18:02And that is something I know when I say that, you're going to say, oh, that will never happen.
18:07Of course it will happen.
18:08You can't wait every year in winter and talk about this.
18:12You have to get your act together.
18:14You did a very good policy on electric vehicles, but you didn't follow through on it to make sure that
18:20electric vehicles actually move towards, we have a complete shift in the vehicles in Delhi, whether it is buses or
18:29whether it is electric two-wheelers.
18:32Today you have buses, your ridership is going down.
18:35You really need to get serious about this, Rajdeep.
18:38And my worry with this is that GRAP was supposed to be an emergency action brought in only when the
18:45pollution levels were very high.
18:47I was one of the architects of GRAP, taking it to the Supreme Court.
18:51We did it only to create, as it is done in the rest of the world, an emergency action, inconvenience
19:00so that you would actually act through the year, so that you would not want to be inconvenienced at the
19:06next year.
19:07Now it's become a fashion where the government announces a three-month shutdown of offices, three-month shutdown of construction,
19:18knowing that it cannot enforce this, knowing that it is not possible for people to shut down businesses for three
19:26months.
19:27That's not pollution control.
19:30That's not pollution control.
19:30Pollution control is getting serious about solutions and serious about enforcement.
19:36I'm not seeing any of it.
19:37Punjab, I'll give you a clear thing.
19:40Punjab has clear reasons why we are not moving on it.
19:44We needed to make sure there are bailing machines so that bailing happens, farmers are paid for the stubble, there
19:51is enough options for them to be able to move it towards bio-CNG plants, ethanol plants.
20:01But those plants are not getting the stubble because there is no government making sure that these things happen.
20:08It's not about optics anymore.
20:11In fact, if I may say very bluntly, the optics are staring us in the face and we cannot breathe.
20:19Okay?
20:20Get out of the optics and get real and get down to action.
20:28So, if you had a three-point agenda very quickly, what would it be?
20:32Because, you know, I want a clear three-point agenda because unfortunately, as you said, there is far too much
20:40optics, far little governance, zero enforcement.
20:44I mean, the Supreme Court also needs a wake-up call, presumably.
20:47They talk of green crackers, crackers only in an hour, it doesn't happen.
20:50So, I want you to tell me, if you were to tell the Supreme Court, the Delhi government, the Punjab
20:54government or any government in the country, give me three actionable points, eminently workable.
21:00So, one is definitely clean combustion, which means bringing gas, as Beijing did.
21:06The hindrance there is the taxation and the very high rates where gas doesn't compete with coal and every other
21:13dirty fuel.
21:14Second is clean electrification, which means public transport running on clean fuel, which can happen and happen at scale, and
21:24not just in Delhi, but in the whole region.
21:27And the third is, as far as Punjab is concerned, the solutions are there, make sure that the farmers get
21:34paid for the stubble.
21:36And that means good systems to make sure that their bailing happens.
21:41It is possible, Rajdeep, but please, I think it's very important, not just the Supreme Court, not just the governments,
21:49but also we.
21:50I think, to some extent, we have to also take responsibility.
21:54I mean, we have to also understand when we burst crackers, what it does.
21:59I mean, I was quite impressed at the Shankaracharya, who actually said very clearly this pre-Diwali to the Hindu
22:11community, to people like me, saying that this is not about Hinduism to hurt another person.
22:18And that pollution in the air is bad for us.
22:21And yet, when I live in my own colony, even today, I can hear the cracker.
22:27And yesterday, the crackers were going on and on and on to a scale and all night.
22:32So forget the Supreme Court order.
22:34I mean, I cannot even understand how the honorable judges give an order, knowing that it can never be enforced.
22:40OK, how the Delhi government gives orders of shutdown, knowing that it can never be enforced.
22:45I think this is really where governance has to come back to bite us.
22:50And it is very important.
22:51I have a lot of respect for the Supreme Court.
22:54They are responsible for the clean air, the little clean air that we have, the good orders that we have.
22:59And I would only request them and the government of Delhi, Haryana, Punjab and UP, stop doing the blame game.
23:07Sit together and sort this out now for next winter.
23:11Not next winter for next winter.
23:18OK, I'm going to leave it there.
23:19Strong words from you.
23:20And I hope that someone out there, as always, is listening, particularly those in power.
23:26Enforcement for God's sake is the key.
23:28I want to widen this.
23:30Who is accountable for this national air emergency?
23:34Accountability has to be fixed.
23:36Enough of the political blame game that we've seen.
23:38Stubble burning or Diwali crackers.
23:40What's the primary cause of this pollution crisis?
23:43Has the government failed to provide effective solutions?
23:46Can society escape blame for not doing enough?
23:49Those are some of the questions I want to raise.
23:51I want to widen this debate that we've set up.
23:54You can see those questions on your screen.
23:57Joining me now is Anmol Panwar.
24:00He's Aamadmi Party spokesperson.
24:01Remember, the AAP is in power in Punjab, where we saw this spike in scumble fires.
24:06Dr. Anil Kumar Gupta, chief spokesperson of Delhi BJP.
24:10He's also a board member of the CPCB.
24:12That's the Pollution Control Board.
24:14Zerine Osho is director of India Programme, Institute for Governance and Sustainable Development.
24:21And she's currently in Turkey for COP.
24:23And Hiren Jetwa is senior research scientist at NASA.
24:27He's going to tell us what the satellite images are showing.
24:30I want my two experts to just hold on for a minute because I want to ask the politicians the
24:34accountability question at the end.
24:38Anmol Panwar, Aamadmi Party spokesperson.
24:41I heard your minister in Punjab saying there are no stubble fires.
24:45Please look at the TV screen that I'm going to put before you.
24:48There were more than 1200 stubble fires just on one day yesterday in Punjab.
24:53In districts like Tarantaran were worst affected.
24:56Are you telling me seriously that your minister is going to tell the country that there are no stubble fires
25:02in Punjab?
25:02He needs an eye checkup at the very outset, sir. Unacceptable. Why deny the problem?
25:15Rajdeep ji, what is unacceptable is that a BJP government at the center for last 12 years having governments in
25:22more than…
25:23Am I audible, Rajdeep ji? Am I audible?
25:34Rajdeep ji, what is unacceptable is that a government at the center for last 12 years having government in more
25:43than 22 states
25:45and who said in their 2025 Delhi elections manifesto that they'll not blame any government and they'll not make any
25:52excuses as far as pollution is concerned.
25:54Today they are blaming farmers. Today they are blaming Punjab. Today they are blaming stubble burning.
25:59When their own central government agency CPCB, when their own central government agency CAQM and IARI Institute of Agricultural Research
26:08very categorically said,
26:10and even their own minister at the floor of the parliament house said that stubble burning contributes only 4%.
26:16Having said that, you know very well that there's 93% reduction in stubble burning incidents in Punjab from 80
26:25,000 in 2021 to less than 5,000 in 2026.
26:29Why did they spike yesterday? Then why did they spike yesterday?
26:31But still they are blaming Punjab.
26:32You know, sir, they spike yesterday. The Delhi government is… No, no, sir, you cannot escape. You cannot tell…
26:38They may have… There were signs that they were declining in the first few weeks.
26:43But there are those who are saying that the farmers were also burning them at a time when satellite images
26:48could not…
26:48could not catch them. More importantly, yesterday itself, there are more than 1200 recorded instances in one day.
26:57How can you escape responsibility?
27:00Rajdeep ji… Raj… Rajdeep ji…
27:05This double-engine government at the centre filed an affidavit before the Honourable Supreme Court very categorically stating that 96
27:13% of the sources of pollution in Delhi are from dust, vehicles and industry.
27:20And the Honourable Supreme Court day before yesterday wrapped the central government.
27:25This right to breathe, this right to clean environment, pollution-free environment, it's our constitutional right. It's not a privilege.
27:34And this incompetent BJP government is responsible for turning Delhi into a guest chamber.
27:40AQI levels are in severe category.
27:42Sir, I ask you about Punjab, you tell me about Delhi. This is the problem.
27:45They have crossed 3000.
27:45Yet instead of…
27:46I ask you about Punjab, you tell me about Delhi.
27:49No, Rajdeep ji…
27:49Rajdeep ji…
27:49That is not the way to answer…
27:51No, no, Mr. Panwar…
27:52Mr. Panwar…
27:53Mr. Panwar…
27:53Mr. Panwar…
27:55Today, I am sick and tired of this political blame game.
27:58Ya toh…
27:59Except that you all have failed in governance.
28:01I mean, there should be that minimum.
28:03Let me…
28:04But I will take your point to the Delhi…
28:06Chief Spokesperson of the Delhi BJP because Dr. Anil Kumar Gupta…
28:09Can I…
28:10Look at the shocker in Delhi.
28:11Ten seconds.
28:12You are only…
28:12You were supposed to enforce a Supreme Court order on crackers.
28:16Why did you not do it?
28:17Instead, your local legislators are encouraging people to burst crackers.
28:23I mean, what kind of governance are you offering, Dr. Gupta?
28:26When Aam Aatmi Party was in power, you would blame them.
28:29You even have shut down monitoring stations when the number was reaching 1000.
28:34Our reporters saw monitoring stations shut down at midnight so that you don't reveal
28:38the data to the public.
28:40What kind of governance, Dr. Gupta, are you offering in Delhi?
28:47Should I speak now, sir?
28:50Should I speak now, sir?
28:52Yeah, please, Dr. Gupta.
28:54Mr. Rajdeep, should I speak now?
28:56Please, please.
28:57Yeah.
29:00I'll…
29:00Please, please speak.
29:01You need to reply each and every point.
29:04Yeah.
29:05Sir, I'm speaking.
29:06Are you…
29:06Am I audible to you?
29:07Just confirm.
29:09Am I audible to you?
29:11Just confirm.
29:11Sir…
29:12Sir, you are completely audible.
29:15Hello, am I…
29:16Yes, I am…
29:16You are audible, sir.
29:17Sir, just reply, sir.
29:18I'm sitting in a remote area.
29:20Ah.
29:21Ah.
29:21See, Delhi has the largest number of monitoring stations in the country, 59.
29:26In the…
29:27Under the KGDW government, there were 39.
29:30We increased to 59.
29:33Shutting down of 1 or 2 or 10 doesn't make any…
29:36Any difference in the average air quality index.
29:40The air quality monitoring stations are monitored all over the country by the Centre Pollution Control Board.
29:46And the average of main pollutant is taken as the average air quality index.
29:52And which is a major pollutant yesterday and today, it is particular matter 2.5.
29:57Now…
29:57Now give me the…
29:59Now I give you the reason of why this spike has happened.
30:03The Centre government has given 79 crore last year to Punjab government under National Clean Air Program.
30:10170 crore for environmental plan.
30:12200…
30:13Total 250 crore for the stable management.
30:16And what the Punjab government did?
30:18They are not supplying the machines to the farmers.
30:21Why there was a sudden spike on 7th and 8th in the stable burning.
30:27Now…
30:27Now…
30:28I come to the question.
30:29What is the reason of particular matter 2.5?
30:32It is the tailpipe emission.
30:34It is the dust.
30:35It is…
30:36It is the…
30:38Stable burning or Parali burning.
30:39And it is the weather.
30:41From 1st November, we stopped all the non-BS6 vehicles in the city.
30:47We have the largest number of electrical buses in the Delhi.
30:515,500.
30:53The average ridership of Mattri is 80 lakhs.
30:56You can imagine that.
30:57And we are…
30:58We are going to complete the entire fleet of 8,000 this year and next year of electric vehicles.
31:04But why…
31:06Why…
31:07Why…
31:07Why…
31:07Why this thing happens in the Punjab?
31:09In spite of giving all the incentive.
31:11In spite of giving all the machines.
31:13Why the Punjab government…
31:14Sir…
31:14You are not helping or the subsidizing…
31:17You cannot...
31:17…blame sir…
31:18In fact…
31:19Just…
31:20Allow me one more thing.
31:20Allow me, allow me, allow me.
31:22You cannot…
31:22Allow me…
31:23Allow me one more thing anymore.
31:23Allow me…
31:24Allow me, allow me…
31:24Allow me, I will…
31:24Allow me…
31:24Allow me…
31:24No, no, no Sir, you have to take…
31:26Just as RM RP has to take responsibility for Punjab, you cannot come on my show and say
31:31some AII monitoring machines may not be working, so what?
31:35The moment the numbers were climbing up, suddenly the machines went dark.
31:39How can your legislators openly allow citizens to flout norms by encouraging
31:43them to to burst crackers the supreme court has said you are in violation you are in contempt of
31:50the supreme court dr gupta should i speak now apart from these chief spokesman from the party
32:01yes please environmentalist also i'm a doctor and i know in and out i know so allow me to
32:07allow me to speak you allowed sunita naranjit for 10 minutes you're not allowing me to five
32:11minutes only i know what she did for delhi she banned she shut down all the thermal plants still
32:18the situation there we are in the government in delhi for one and a half years we've we got all
32:23this in legacy of 26 years and we are doing i said what measures we have taken in one and
32:28a half years
32:28i'm telling you what more measures we need to take that i'm also telling you know delhi has a population
32:33three cores can you control each and every citizen not to burst the crackers we need to regulate we
32:39need to stop the production of non green crackers that is three supreme court has just given the
32:46decision and in three four days can you say we can control all the three crowd population we have 75
32:52lat kitchen in delhi we which gives the home uh pollution and what to talk of the punjab when i
32:59talk of punjab you said you don't talk about the punjab why there is sudden spike satellite images are
33:04showing and this time they said no i said don't talk i said you are accountable for delhi i might
33:10be
33:10party has to be held accountable for punjab that's all i said yes sir yes sir no no no i'm
33:15i'm i'm saying
33:16i'm saying i'm saying i'm saying i'm accountable daily i'm admitting you but i'm saying what measures i
33:21have taken in one and a half year that you need that the citizen of the country needs to know
33:25we have banned the uh all other known bs-6 vehicles in delhi then there was a hue and cry
33:33why there is
33:33so much uh uh jam in the border areas then you say we have banned the conception for particular matter
33:3910.
33:40we have banned uh so many things you know there is no conception in really still because the weather
33:45there is no wind because of the moisture the particle gets suspended and there is a in fact
33:50what was the index yesterday what did today today it is a reduction of 100 points so you need all
33:56government why there is a conspiracy by the punjab government it needs to be okay so i have to be
34:01probed i don't say it is a i don't you're speaking to the i don't say we are in a
34:06good situation
34:06i admit dr gupta one minute one minute yeah i i've heard both of you patiently sir i've heard both
34:14of
34:14you patiently i want to get some experts in hearing your senior research scientist at nasa
34:19uh you know when i'm looking at these numbers that are there stubborn some of the worst most
34:25polluted cities 21 of 71 cities had very poor or worse in terms of air quality in particularly north
34:32india very poor air you've been tracking this through satellite imagery is it true that basically
34:39the stubble fires in punjab have been done this year in a manner to avoid some of the satellite images
34:45either at 1 30 a.m or 1 30 p.m uh are the two times when you all measure
34:49the satellite this this
34:51so therefore there is a dark a darkness over punjab and the reality is slowly sinking in that stubble
34:59fires continue unabated uh thanks rajdeep for calling me on this panel discussion i heard sunita narayan
35:08and and now excuse me and now uh our sports uh spokesperson and also a spokesperson from from bjp uh
35:18so let me start with the uh technicality of this uh the stubble burning detection from the satellite
35:26uh and this is a very long-standing first of all let me tell you this air pollution over northern
35:31india is
35:31a very long-standing uh and multifaceted problem and and my part is to look at this stubble burning
35:38fires actually from space uh i still remember in 2016 uh which is 10 years ago the diwali and the
35:45peak
35:46burning time they overlap perfectly each other and that's what's happening today i mean yesterday right
35:52this year that that that the peak burning time in the punjab and some part of haryana too and the
35:58the
35:59diwali fireworks so what we are saying as you correctly said the double whammy uh thing right
36:04now uh going on in the delhi and other parts in northern india and regarding satellite detection uh
36:11let me tell you some uncomfortable truth that amadmi party spokesperson may not agree with me there is
36:17nothing nothing has changed in terms of the stubble burning since up our government took the charge in
36:22punjab in 2022 we have seen a systematic uh shift in the timing of the burning from about 1 30
36:30between
36:30between 1 to 2 p.m to now 4 and 5 5 p.m so since last couple of years
36:35we are seeing this very prominent
36:38uh pattern in the in the fires from the geostationary satellite data and the and the satellite data that
36:45everyone is using including myself are from uh nasa and nova polar orbiting satellite uh products
36:52which are overpassing around 1 30 p.m so what what these government numbers are telling us is a very
36:59small very small fraction maybe 10 percent or less than 10 percent of the totality of the of the of
37:05the
37:05of the fire uh fires in punjab and other parts but if you look at the geostationary data which is
37:10giving us
37:11imagery at every 15 minutes every hour it clearly shows a a very prominent spike in the fire signal
37:18at 4 and 5 and beyond beyond 5 p.m but there is also one interesting uh part and that's
37:24that's i think
37:25most important thing that i would like to say here that the one nasa satellite which was overpassing at
37:301 30 p.m uh prior to 2023 now that satellite is aqua basically it's an aqua uh satellite with
37:38a modis
37:38sensor on it it's in the free drifting orbit they are lowering the the altitude altitude of that
37:44satellite to preserve the fuel and because of that now that satellite is passing over punjab over
37:49northern india around 4 p.m and that enables that satellite to see more and more fires
37:55at one kilometer resolution and if we convert those numbers to high resolution fire empirically
38:02my numbers tell including uh to my today morning's analysis including november 9th we have seen about
38:0834 000 fires i'm again repeating 34 000 fires so far in punjab and haryana mostly dominated by punjab
38:15since the the onset of the burning season on on october 1st that's that's my my reference
38:21so there is no decrease in the fires uh whatever right so you're saying you're saying the numbers
38:26numbers you're saying the numbers are much more you're saying the numbers are much more and and
38:32actually satellite imagery is not even able to capture the full extent of what is happening in
38:37punjab zereen osho you've been listening patiently do you believe that this is the double whammy that
38:43because peak harvest season and diwali have coincided it's created this chaos uh it's created this terrible
38:50darkness around us the smog around us or do you believe that we are just seeing
38:56this getting worse by the year simply because enforcement is just not there
39:04hi rajdeep this is the second time you and i are talking about this particular issue last year we were
39:10speaking about uh seeking clouds to make sure that there was some sort of solution to this problem
39:16another year has passed this is another season another winter season and here we are talking
39:20about the same thing i think the point that you made about it being a double whammy and then it
39:26coming up with uh in in conjunction to enforcement is the correct answer you know when you do not have
39:33enforcement officers at the pollution control boards across the states in this particular idp region
39:39the panjab haryana delhi uttar pradesh belts there is no way that the government can get away
39:45in enforcing those targets even though whatever the targets may be but if there's no enforcement
39:51be it the supreme court be it the government be it the state pollution control board be it the caqm
39:57we it's all paper trail as dr sunita narayan pointed out we can come in different meetings and
40:03committees set different targets but those targets cannot be attained till there is some level of
40:09enforcement you know the speakers before me also said just as i did i'm i'm in turkey right now
40:15where the cop 31 meetings are occurring and i can tell you just before i took my flight here to
40:20antalia all night there was bursting of firecrackers and this is despite the supreme court ruling and the
40:27same was true for last year this year i think the the the correlation and the the juxtaposition of
40:34panjab fires and finally you know mainstreaming of the news that panjab farmers know exactly when the
40:41satellites are satellites are satellites are over their head has mainstreamed this year but this news
40:46is not new we were aware of this news last year as well so there's no change in the last
40:53year and
40:54this year no matter which government be in power and i think to some extent there needs to be some
41:00recognition of the fact that if you're going to try and control air over the state of delhi that's not
41:08something that atmosphere and air knows as such the atmosphere does not know state boundaries
41:13so no matter how many restrictions you put on the state of delhi be it be it vehicular be it
41:20pollution control measures something needs to happen in haryana uttar pradesh and panjab as well because
41:25winds go from west to east so to say that we are here and you know this is a double
41:31whammy and you
41:32know so and so excuse has come up absolutely not we were here last year as well and i am
41:37pretty sure
41:37we're going to be here next year as well no no but what you see as you said there are
41:46several
41:47stakeholders here what do they need to do sit across a table and come up with an action plan
41:51how do you enforce it you see i hear government bureaucrats saying it's easy for you to sit in
41:55a studio how do you enforce it on a ground on the ground denny is a city of more than
41:5925 million people
42:01the ncr region how do i enforce that people don't burst crackers panjab farmers have a very small window
42:07for their harvesting they are going to go ahead with scowl burning how do you actually enforce is
42:11there a example that can be followed to get all these chief ministers on one table and get it done
42:18absolutely and first and foremost before i answer that question i also want to highlight that i live
42:23across the hoskas police station in delhi and to talk about you know we have 25 million people or 33
42:30million people yes of course we do have a large population but if the the fire bursting or the
42:36cracker bursting happens right across the police station i think there is a problem which is
42:40fundamental to our enforcement abilities and talks to it so there is no question about oh you know we
42:46we are short on capacity absolutely i think the first thing we need to do is to make sure
42:51to hold accountable the state pollution control boards to fill in the positions of enforcement officers i have
42:58worked across the igp region and i can tell you that the state capacity is extremely understaffed we do
43:06not have enough officers to regulate the district of gurugram let alone the state of haryana for instance
43:13right so the first things first why is it that the state pollution control boards cannot hire enough
43:20capacity to be able to enforce the targets that the respective state governments have put in place
43:25that is question number one and for that you can hold the state pollution control board responsible
43:29directly now having said that coming to the point that you are making about how do we get the chief
43:34ministers to sit together this has been done and this has been done under the the directions of the
43:40honorable supreme court several times but the problem is it has never been elevated to the position of
43:46a chief minister the supreme court on multiple occasions has gotten hold of environment ministers
43:51gotten hold of state pollution control boards but it has never been elevated to a level a political
43:57level where a chief minister becomes responsible or could be held responsible for the condition first
44:04things first i think a the need for the honorable supreme court to come in i i do see that
44:11the
44:11spokesperson from arp is raising their hand but i must you know bring to their fore and knowledge i am
44:17aware
44:17of the fact that different chief ministers across the igp region have made different promises none of
44:22those have been fulfilled simply both so now in order to get the chief minister to make this a political
44:28issue and get the exact the right type of momentum and limelight to the issue it needs to be elevated
44:34to a
44:35political stage that is one the second we do have a caqm we do have you know these these pollution
44:41control both so and so forth please answer the question of how many technical people are employed
44:47in these different committees so you have different ngos and different civil society expert members
44:53come in as advisors quote unquote not as people who are actually put in decision making positions
44:59those are is officers and bureaucrats now i may be i may not know as much as other people may
45:06but the
45:07one thing i can tell you after having sat through multiple of these meetings and being privy to what
45:11happens in these meetings a lot of the bureau bureaucracy may not be experts in the area of air pollution
45:18simply put if you can get the chief ministers to come together and say hey we have a problem here
45:25the igp region is the problem we know the problem we have the solutions why is enforcement not happening
45:32and having i am pretty sure no chief minister in the igp region wants to breed 2000 plus aqi
45:38so till the time these questions these fundamental questions can be answered of enforcement officers
45:44and getting actual experts and giving power to experts to enforce through those enforcement
45:50mechanisms is when we will be able to see change and no decision can be enforced in one state
45:56jurisdiction it has to be enforced across states together in the igp region otherwise air does not
46:04know what is the state of delhi or the state of punjab
46:11i take your point i've listened to you patiently i've listened to all my guests patiently
46:17as i said my biggest fear is that we'll all be back tomorrow same time same time of the year
46:23discussing the same issues this is a national air emergency i appreciate my guests joining me but
46:30i want to give my take also today the morning after diwali the toxic air choking large parts of north
46:38india
46:39is not an unforeseen disaster my friends it is a predictable recurring failure of governance
46:47and collective responsibility the combination this year of firecracker emissions and stubble burning
46:55in punjab haryana and neighboring states is a real indictment of the absence of accountability in our system
47:04because this is happening year after year governments cannot hide behind their seasonal advisories
47:10emergency meetings and familiar blame games why are the regulations not being enforced why are viable
47:18alternatives to stubble burning not being made accessible at scale why does every year bring the same
47:25crisis with no consequences for administrative failure political inaction or the failure of the supreme
47:33court to ensure that their orders are enforced equally citizens you and i cannot demand clean air while
47:41refusing to acknowledge our own contribution to the problem the right to breathe cannot be reduced to
47:48a matter of individual choice or seasonal inconvenience it is a fundamental right and protecting it is a
47:55non-negotiable duty of the state when a preventable public health crisis recurs year after year it is no
48:03longer just pollution it is an accountability deficit and those responsible must answer for it i want to ask a
48:11simple question today at the end why can the union environment minister not set up a committee of all the
48:18chief
48:18ministers of these states and ensure that technical experts are brought in and given a plan of action if you
48:27are
48:27really interested in governance that's what you should be doing governing india not resorting to slogans
48:35and emergency measures when the crisis reaches a point where none of us can really have any choice when it
48:44comes
48:45to the right to breathe think about it next big story is coming from karnataka where ethanol blending has
48:52triggered a major controversy in across south india starting with karnataka the karnataka government
48:59alleges that the e30 level blending that is taking play is taking place even when the fuel that is being
49:05supplied to petrol pumps is meant to be e20 it claims that oil companies in the center are working together
49:11to exploit consumers remember karnataka is an opposition rule congress government and even kerala
49:18now has joined in the chorus ordering checks on e20 petrol oil companies in the center though
49:24are denying the numbers being flouted take a look at this report
49:33rising fuel costs are already burning a hole in motorist pockets now a fresh controversy over ethanol
49:40blending has raised further concerns the karnataka government has leveled serious allegations
49:47claiming that recent tests found higher than permitted ethanol content in petrol immediately the government
49:54should ensure that they go ahead and remove the ethanol mixing in the petrol and they claim that
50:02there is a huge loss for the people who are using the petrol across the country and they say that
50:09they will continue the protest until unless the government consider their demand and ensure that
50:15ethanol is not being mixed with the petrol the karnataka government claims that e20 blending levels
50:24improved after its exposing and assured that it would conduct periodic tests we demand from the central
50:31government that there should be an independent testing mechanism established now they have been exposed
50:37and now they for some time they'll set right the e20 blend to what they have declared but we need
50:44to keep checking randomly according to the state's findings samples collected from 67 locations showed
50:53ethanol content exceeding the prescribed 20 percent limit in several instances allegedly going up to even 30 percent
51:02but public sector oil marketing companies has rejected all claims made by karnataka government the bjp has hit back
51:10at the karnataka government questioning its findings and claiming that the state does not have a laboratory
51:16to test fuel quality is not doing his proper his work showing central government i asked the state government you
51:26have any for petrol and diesel
51:30for investigation for anything you have a any uh lab there is no lab for you the no lab meant
51:41for petrol and diesel
51:44following karnataka the keralim government has also ordered fuel quality checks in four districts
51:51we're getting a lot of complaints about the vehicles getting damaged the engines getting damaged and the
51:55mileage coming down many complaints and reports through the medias are all are already there now also the
52:01recent inspections in karnataka was also major concern to us so we are ruling out all such concerns the we
52:09we are
52:10trying for this inspection we are trying to rule out that there are no discrepancies in the patrols that
52:16are sold in the state of kerala the controversy has now raised a larger question is the petrol you are
52:22buying actually e20 or a higher blend bureau report india today
52:30okay that's uh just about all that we could pack in uh on this monday night the day after diwali
52:35hope you've
52:36had a safe peaceful and hopefully a noise-free diwali a diwali of lights and so much else to celebrate
52:44in this wonderful festival of ours uh i want to leave you with our image of the day many world
52:52leaders
52:52posting videos uh wishing the people of india are very happy diwali one of them has gone viral malaysian
52:58prime minister anwar ebrahim wishing dipavali in true rajdikan style in tamil remember malaysia has a large
53:05tamil expat population his video has been quite the hit i need you with that video thanks for
53:12watching stay well stay safe good night shubratri jayhin namaskar
53:27you probably not baltuka
53:31god
53:32you probably not baltuka
53:32god
53:33you
53:39you
53:39you