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Депутаты Европарламента обсудили расширение ЕС на саммите Euronews в Брюсселе

После нового доклада Еврокомиссии о странах-кандидатах евродепутаты Рихо Террас (ЕНП) и Паскуале Тридико (Левая группа) спорят об одном из самых амбициозных политических проектов Европы.

ЧИТАТЬ ДАЛЕЕ : http://ru.euronews.com/2026/11/05/deputaty-evroparlamenta-obsudili-rasshirenie-es-na-sammite-euronews-v-bryussele

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00:19Продолжение следует...
00:30We are honing in on really the future of Europe.
00:34With Ukraine's accession ambitions and the Western Balkans long wait for membership, EU enlargement is once again at the center
00:43of Europe's political debate.
00:45While some see expansion as a strategic necessity to strengthen European security and democracy, others warn that rushing the process
00:55risks undermining peace, democratic standards and the EU's own cohesion.
01:01So, after years of promises and delays, can the EU move forward credibly and should geopolitical interests come before strict
01:13membership rules?
01:15So, a lot to unpack here for our contenders in the ring today.
01:20And here they are.
01:22Pascale Torridico, Italian member of the European Parliament with the left group.
01:26And Rio Terras, also member of the European Parliament with the European People's Party from Estonia.
01:32Please welcome to the ring, gentlemen.
01:37Pascale Torridico, Italian member of the European Parliament with the European Parliament with the European Parliament with the European Parliament.
01:42So, let's start with Serbia, where the parliamentary elections just a few days ago brought to power a student movement
01:49that is not necessarily more pro-European than the government of Aleksandr Vucic.
01:56Do you still see Serbia on track to become an EU member state in the foreseeable future?
02:02Rio, I'm going to start with you.
02:03Well, I'm not predicting anything what the student movement is or is not because they have not, they were not
02:10willing to declare their political views before they were winning and they won with the avalanche.
02:17So, I think it is important that Serbian people have decided that the regime of Vucic was not democratic enough.
02:27And now, it is in the hands of these people who have been elected to the parliament to decide which
02:33track Serbia needs to take.
02:36And I am convinced that the track is European track because Serbian people are very much willing.
02:42Pascale, how do you see it?
02:44It's right.
02:45We don't know much about their...
02:47Yeah, we don't know much, but I would be quite...
02:49I mean, I'm quite happy about the fact that young students all over Europe today are demonstrating and fighting for
02:56their right.
02:56They want to take the future.
02:58And in fact, we see as well in Serbia, it's happening directly through democratic process, the elections.
03:03So, this is something that needs to be respected and seen positive in particular because, as we know, the government
03:09of Vucic was quite corrupted.
03:11There were accusations of that.
03:14Europe was complaining as well against the government.
03:18Does Serbia, at the end of the day, needs to make a choice between its friendship to Russia and the
03:26European Union?
03:29We're getting mixed signals here, right?
03:30Now, nowadays, there is only black and white.
03:35If you are not with European Union, Russia will grab you.
03:40And we have seen that Ukraine announcing their willingness to have an association agreement with European Union caused the war
03:49and Russia attacked Ukraine.
03:50So, in my opinion, there is no free space in defence, no free space in economy, and Europe needs to
03:59use the opportunity right now.
04:00Would you agree?
04:01Well, I'm quite sceptical to the idea of seeing the world in general, black and white, the world, countries that
04:10need to make a choice to be there and there.
04:12Member states have their own Eastern tradition.
04:16So, they may be linked with some countries.
04:19I don't make this as a necessary condition.
04:22You have to disconnect all your legacy from...
04:28You know, we need to understand better the tradition and the root of the people.
04:31I see today that there is an issue with Russia, and I see the war of aggression.
04:36But once we...
04:38We cannot change geography.
04:41Geography is there for us to be ruled, to be governed.
04:46And countries, they have ties.
04:47If we see the world as block, which are one against another, we don't see the room for politics, in
04:58fact.
04:58Politics needs, in general, to create links.
05:02But Europe is funding and supporting Ukraine, and isn't it fair to say to Serbia, you need to cut off
05:09your relations with Russia?
05:11Otherwise, there's no European...
05:12I don't think it is any need to say to the countries anything.
05:15That's the democratic governments who make decisions, and Ukraine has made Ukrainian people have elected the president and the government,
05:23which wants Ukraine to join the European Union.
05:27And Russia attacked Ukraine because of that.
05:30They did not want that Ukraine becomes a part of the European family of democratic nations.
05:37And the same decision lies on the Serbia side.
05:40If they want to join the European Union, they must.
05:42We must do everything possible to help them to get to the level that they will be accepted by other
05:48European Union nations.
05:49But we should not tell the people what to do or what not to do.
05:54So, in more general terms, the EU already struggles sometimes with the decision-making among 27 member states.
06:02Now, there are 30, 35 member states in the future.
06:07That would lead many people to say, it's enough.
06:10This becomes unmanageable.
06:12What do you tell these people?
06:13Why that?
06:14As Europe had only seven members, they thought that's impossible to take decisions in 15, it's impossible to take decisions
06:22in 20.
06:23As we were joining, it was said, well, taking them, the decisions will not be possible.
06:28It is always possible.
06:30The European Union has shown that it finds the finances and it finds the solutions, administrative solutions to enlarge,
06:39just because it has been the most successful economic project of the history of mankind.
06:45And we need to go on with it, because if we don't, then we will lose this battle.
06:50We should step forward.
06:51Pasquale.
06:52Well, you know, Stefan, which country has been historically in Europe in favor of the enlargement?
06:59Guess one.
07:00UK.
07:01UK has been historically in favor of all the enlargement possible.
07:05You know why?
07:06Because actually, Europe, UK wants to weakening the process of integration through enlargement.
07:15And I would say, in a way, this objective was reached.
07:19This was one of the biggest objectives of Margaret Thatcher, who was not really a Europeanist in the sense of
07:25a federalist European.
07:26Actually, I see the enlargement as a process which could happen only if you manage to deepen the integration.
07:36If we do enlargement just because of military purpose, for instance, or just because we do have just one specific
07:44objective,
07:44forgetting the common market, forgetting the social dimension, forgetting the peace on which Europe is founded,
07:52then I think that we do a mistake.
07:55Enlargement is a process which needs, first of all, reform, which needs increasing.
07:59Look at the budget.
08:00We are fighting it in Europe for 1% budget.
08:04For what?
08:05How can we define that Europe if we don't have a budget to spend?
08:09With more member states, actually, this would be even more dangerous to create a common budget,
08:15because most of them are against, would be against, against the social dimension, against the spending, against the common budget,
08:22against many common objectives that we, in 1957, we thought that these were very important to respect.
08:32Okay, a lot of points here.
08:34I want to go back to Rio.
08:35Are you...
08:36No, absolutely.
08:37I don't agree with you.
08:38At all.
08:38I mean, we should see enlargement as an opportunity.
08:43And I'll take Ukraine, because it is the biggest one.
08:46The small ones, it was talked on the scene today, the small ones, they are, say, easier, digestible for European
08:54Union.
08:54But Ukraine, with its 40 million people, is, of course, a challenge.
08:59The same thing, which was said about Poland.
09:01And today, Poland is the most, one of the most successful economies, even through the recession times, Poland was very
09:09solid on its economy.
09:11And it's now one of the pillars of European Union.
09:15Ukraine has educated very clever people.
09:18Ukraine has the biggest national resources of Europe.
09:21I'm not talking about agriculture, but even the natural resources are the biggest in Europe.
09:26It should be seen as an opportunity, as an opportunity to get stronger, with a bigger market, with economical wealth,
09:36against all the other nations who are competing with us.
09:40I mean, the United States is much bigger.
09:43Somehow they manage to deal with themselves.
09:47They also have bigger problems.
09:49Of course they have.
09:50Everybody has.
09:50Do you agree with this?
09:51Do you agree with this assessment?
09:53Well, since you made that comparison with the United States, we are bigger, 27 today, and we did not even
09:59manage to have a common policy against the tariff of Trump.
10:03Because we disagree with the approach that we need to maintain against Trump.
10:07If we are 35, do you think that it would be easy to find a trade policy, a common answer
10:12to Trump?
10:14Well, this is what I mean when enlargement done without a process could even weaken Europe.
10:20I'm not prejudicial against enlargement.
10:22Actually, I am in favor of the enlargement.
10:24I think that enlargement before that needs to create common policy, reform in the institutional setting, and as well a
10:34reflection of what Europe is about.
10:38Europe is about a market.
10:40Well, we do not need a European Union if Europe is about a market.
10:43We just have a trade union then.
10:46Europe is about a social dimension, an economic dimension.
10:49A common idea of where we want to be in 20, in 50, in 100 years from now.
10:56Okay, let me stop you right there.
10:58As we're just getting warmed up here, it's now time for gloves off.
11:07Now, we want viewers to get a real flavor of the European Parliament, where members ask each other questions and
11:15respond to each other directly.
11:17That means we want our contenders today to challenge each other directly, just as you do in the hemicycle in
11:23Strasbourg and Brussels.
11:25So, let's get started, and I'm going to start with you, Rio.
11:28What's your question to Pasquale?
11:30I have heard your arguing about that the European defense policy is dominated by Estonia.
11:39Do you really think that one million people can dominate anything, first?
11:43But secondly, do you think that we should neglect the possibility of trying to dominate defense after Russia has attacked
11:52Estonia in the last thousand years 42 times,
11:55which makes it every 25 years, and we are right now on the 35th year of our independence.
11:59So, do you really think that Estonia should shut up as a small country and not talk about defense the
12:05way you posted it?
12:08No, I don't think.
12:09Probably you refer to something else that I said, and I would confirm that.
12:13The three most important commissioners today in Europe, they are Dombrowski, the economy, Kubilius, defense, and Kallas, foreign affairs.
12:25Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia.
12:27So, this basically underlines a kind of strong interest only for that part of Europe.
12:36I understand the current period, the current moment in which we live,
12:39but if we don't bring Europe together, then Europe will weaken itself.
12:44So, I'm not against Estonia. I love Estonia.
12:46I've been teaching in Tallinn for a while.
12:49I've been quite international in Europe, traveling and teaching, which is my profession, in many Eastern Europeans.
12:56Actually, my PhD was about enlargement of Eastern Europe, and I focus exactly on the case of Poland.
13:04You know why Poland is a successful case that you manage?
13:06Because it managed to create the right institutions before, since 1993.
13:12Before, with a sort of therapy, reforming the state, building the nation within.
13:18And then, expanding policy, embracing Europe, the conditionality of Copenhagen in primus.
13:24And this was a successful case because of that.
13:26I'm not against Poland, I'm in favor.
13:28Pascal, I want you to ask a question to Rio also.
13:32Don't forget.
13:32Do you think that Europe actually needs to increase the budget to face the challenge that we are facing,
13:40starting from social dimension, the protest of today in most of European countries,
13:45which actually underlines suffering, the crisis of the automotive, the crisis of industry?
13:52Do you think that the market alone can save us, along with the military, probably, conversion of the industry?
13:59Or do you think that actually we need to increase the budget and having unanimity as well in deep process
14:04of decision?
14:05I think the European Union needs to have the budget for its common projects.
14:09But I think the problems lie in the nations who are not following the Maastricht criterias.
14:16And the nations should get their own finances intact in the way that you will be able to pay your
14:23social services,
14:24you will be able to pay even for defense.
14:27Because the security and defense policy as foreign policy is responsibility of the European member nations and not European Union.
14:36Europe should concentrate on competitiveness of European as a whole.
14:42And the competitiveness has suffered a lot in the last years because of the very weak governments,
14:48say, in France, with a huge national debt.
14:53In Estonia, our national debt is 20%.
14:57Most of the European countries have it around 100% or more.
15:02You should have finances intact in your own countries and not increase the European budget for that.
15:09So you use the common money.
15:11So it's like a big guy, a small guy.
15:14First we eat your sausage and then each of us eats his own.
15:19I don't think that is a good policy.
15:20All right.
15:21Thank you so much for this round.
15:22We've heard your views from our guests.
15:26Now it's time to hear from a new voice.
15:33And let's bring in the voice of Ursula von der Leyen, the EU Commission President.
15:38Just a few weeks ago, she characterized EU enlargement as this.
15:42And I quote,
15:53So, geopolitical imperative, Pascuala.
15:57Let's talk about the elephant in the room here, Russia.
16:00Has Russia's war against Ukraine turned enlargement into a matter of European security?
16:06Well, evidently, yes.
16:08Meaning that this is a fact.
16:10But we are now speaking about enlargement exactly because of the geopolitical dimension.
16:15But this, I think, is the mistake.
16:18As far as we treat enlargement as a geopolitical dimension,
16:21we incur in the problem that I was underlining before.
16:24We forget about economy.
16:26We forget about social dimension.
16:28We forget about the issue on which 1957 Rome Treaty was founded.
16:33So, then I think that the phrase of Ursula von der Leyen, with due respect, should be a little bit
16:41reformulated.
16:42Rio, what do you think?
16:43Did we change the rules here?
16:45We're purely looking at security.
16:48No, I think Europe is a peace project.
16:50Europe has been a peace project from the very beginning.
16:52And I remember I was one of those who was working hard in the embassy towards European Union and NATO.
17:00And we have defined these aims already early 1990s because we saw it as something which delivers also security.
17:10And it is the same today.
17:13It has not changed.
17:14But Europe's focus should be still a competitiveness of European nations in the world because this is a strength.
17:23Last year, we overcome China as a gross domestic product and now rating second after the United States.
17:31We should use this power, this economic power to influence.
17:36But nobody listens to us if we don't have weapons.
17:38So, we need to demilitarize ourselves back to the level where we were listened to.
17:44Today, Putin does not listen to us.
17:46We have seen President Stoob talking to Putin, got a lecture from him about the history.
17:55We should show that we are strong and we need to be counted with.
18:00Pasquale, we have heard about Russian influence in the Western Balkans, even in Western Europe, but in the Western Balkans
18:09in particular.
18:11Isn't that a reason more to say we need to admit these countries because otherwise they are left to Russian
18:22whims and Russian aggression?
18:24Well, it depends.
18:25It depends on what we mean by conditionality that Russia is exerting on Montenegro, on Serbia and so on.
18:34Those people, first of all, think about religion.
18:36Those people are mostly in Serbia, in Orthodox.
18:40They have a link, not with Putin.
18:42They have a link with some legacy, with some tradition.
18:45Do we need to ask to these people, forget about your religion, forget about your patriarch?
18:50I don't think that this is a good approach from us, from a democratic point of view.
18:55We still claim and we are a democratic union so that we need to accept the legacy of the country.
19:02Then, as far as, of course, we think about political influences, choices, trade.
19:08Well, this needs to be discussed and I will not be in favor.
19:12Do you agree?
19:14Do I agree that people need to have their culture taken care of?
19:18Yes, I do.
19:19I think religion is something which is the freedom of religion is one of the core principles of European Union.
19:26I mean, I have no problem.
19:27But the problem is that Russia does not use Orthodox Church as a free will,
19:33but as a KGB-following organization which just influences the minds of the people
19:41in order to be with Putin in this war of aggression against Ukraine.
19:47Yeah, talk about people.
19:48We will do that in our next round, which is the fourth one.
20:00Well, let's take a look at how European citizens follow the current debates on enlargement
20:05and what their thinking is, especially their worries.
20:09And here we have a special Eurobarometer survey from 2025 that still offers some eye-opening clues.
20:16So when people across Europe are asked about their worries when it comes to enlargement,
20:2136% say, well, it creates more complicated decision-making at EU level.
20:2637% it's the cost to European taxpayers that is worrying.
20:3139% say corruption, organized crime and terrorism.
20:36And 40% uncontrolled migration.
20:40How do you see these numbers, Pascual?
20:41Does anything surprise you here?
20:43Well, not much.
20:44I think that this is quite true.
20:48It reflects very much as well the preoccupation of some citizen in Italy, which is my country.
20:55Cost of living today is very high in the priority.
20:59And people in Europe, people in Italy, underline the fact that the decision-making at European level
21:08is so slow, is so complex and so complicated.
21:11That's why when I say we need to first change our institution, and that's why the institution of the country,
21:17which is making accession to Europe before making enlargement,
21:24because this is what citizens would understand.
21:27Otherwise, actually, what we have seen in the last years is basically an increase of sovereignism,
21:34which is detrimental for the process of European integration.
21:37If we do not care about social issues, about cost of living, about cost of wage, which are not increasing,
21:45inflation, which is eroding, purchasing power, then we don't bring all the citizens together.
21:49And this is what we need to do.
21:51Ria, are we not, we as the European Union, communicating enough the advantages of enlargement?
21:59I mean, this uncontrolled migration, 40% of people worry about this.
22:04Is this justified?
22:05I think it is.
22:06I mean, we need to listen to the people.
22:08But first, the governments of the countries need to listen to the people.
22:13But there are certain things Europe can do.
22:15And of course, the question about bureaucracy, which was one of the threats also,
22:20is something we need to deal with, because bureaucracy is a tendency to create more bureaucracy.
22:26We need to cut the red tape, we need to decrease significantly the European bureaucracy,
22:32because a lot of money comes always with bureaucracy, but we need to control the bureaucracy.
22:37Second thing is, absolutely, we need to combat the migration the same way we are dealing with the defense issues
22:44on the eastern border.
22:45We need to take care of the Mediterranean and all the questions of migration.
22:50And not invite everybody to be part of it, not legally or illegally.
22:57We need to concentrate on what our people want in our countries, and Europe should take the bigger challenges.
23:05Pasquale, we've seen time and again the political potency of the migration issue in Europe,
23:11in the public discourse and, of course, in election campaigns.
23:17Is it fair to say that migration and the migration issue is one of the biggest threats to enlargement?
23:25Because if the population is against it for this reason, what do we do?
23:31Yeah, probably it is.
23:32Probably it is part of the issue, because people and citizens are scared.
23:38Within a scarcity period as today, economies are not growing in Europe, actually.
23:43Most of the European countries' economy are stagnating, wages are not increasing, inflation is taking purchasing power.
23:50And then citizens think, wrongly I would say, but actually we need to explain that it is not the case,
23:56that migration may be an opportunity as far as legal migration we are thinking,
24:02and as far as the opportunity of job are there.
24:07Look, there is a demographic issue in Europe, in Italy, as well as most of European countries.
24:15In Italy, fertility rate is 1,1.
24:18We actually have challenged our pension system, because in most of the European Union,
24:23the pension system relies on the number of workers working.
24:26Working not only with artificial intelligence, doing the smart things, but working as well,
24:31in manufacture, in building construction, in agriculture, and nobody today, of European cities,
24:37in mostly cases, would like to do this job.
24:40So there is a demand of labour, which is as well a need for migration, which is legally integrated.
24:47I think that if we explain to citizens the need for migration, as far as demand of labour is concerned,
24:55then we can let them accept migration as part of a deal within the European Union.
25:02Italy has been a country of huge migration from south of Europe, from south of Italy to north of Europe.
25:09Within the European Union, this was a resource.
25:11So if we look at the issue in this sense, but then, you see, we are not speaking about defence.
25:17We are speaking about social issue, labour market issue.
25:21We are speaking about opportunity for demand of labour,
25:24and not about an abstract construction which has to do with defence and military issues.
25:30Okay.
25:32That will close this round.
25:33Thank you so much.
25:34And now it's time to move on to our fifth and last round.
25:42And here I'm going to ask you a set of questions, to which you can only answer yes or no.
25:49Okay?
25:49Yeah.
25:50Yes, yes.
25:51Good.
25:52We are going to start with you.
25:54Is a bigger EU a necessarily stronger EU?
25:58Yes.
26:00Well, yes.
26:01Okay.
26:02Should there be a reform of the treaties before further enlargement?
26:06Yes.
26:07No.
26:09Okay.
26:09Should Ukraine be an EU member before 2030?
26:14If merit pays, if it fits the conditions?
26:18Conditional, yes.
26:19Conditional, yes.
26:21Well, we need to change first the treaty, the institutional reform.
26:27We need to change...
26:28So, that's...
26:29There are some conditionalities.
26:31Okay.
26:31Should we end the national veto on enlargement in general?
26:35No.
26:36No.
26:37No, no.
26:38Can Serbia join without abandoning its ties to Russia?
26:44If Serbia fulfills the requirements, then yes.
26:50If we are speaking about cultural links, no, I don't care.
26:55If we are speaking about political or defense links, well, this is no.
26:59Okay.
27:00Then, has enlargement become a test of Europe's geopolitical credibility?
27:05It has always been.
27:06Yeah.
27:07Okay.
27:08Thank you very much.
27:09That brings us to the end of this edition of The Ring.
27:12Thanks again to Pasquale and Rio for a lively conversation here from the European Enlargement Summit.
27:19Thanks to your audience here at home.
27:21If you like, you can continue the conversation by sending us your comments to thering at euronews.com.
27:28We'd love to have your feedback.
27:30That's it for this edition.
27:32I'm Shetan Gober.
27:33Take care.
27:34And see you soon on doom.
27:36Thank you.
27:36Thank you very much.
27:38That's it.
27:38Thank you very much.
27:40Thank you very much.
27:41Thank you very much.
27:50Продолжение следует...

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