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Refinery29âs Fashion Features Director, Connie Wang, shares her circuitous path from Minnesota to Manhattan, tracing her love of unconventional style, and how other young women can tap into their roots, not just trends, as a means of inspiration.
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00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:06of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:12the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. Connie is here today to talk about the uncommon connection we both have
00:31to making style relatable to everyone. Not something to be feared and intimidated into,
00:37but embraced and explored with joy and veracity. Connie is from Minnesota, but she went to school
00:44at UC Berkeley and graduated in just three years. I love that fact about her. I also met Connie when
00:50she was young enough to have a totally different style and vibe than she does today. She was 22
00:55when she arrived in our Refinery29 offices to interview for the associate blog editor role.
01:00She became employee number six, and over the past seven years, she's risen through the ranks to
01:05fashion features director, a role she was, quite honestly, born for. I love Connie's style. I love
01:13her sense of humor, and more specifically, I love her peaceful, wide-eyed way of seeing the world.
01:18She is a Zen master in Uniqlo clothing and ugly shoes. That will make sense later.
01:26Hi, Connie.
01:27Hi, Christine.
01:28Welcome to Unstyled.
01:31I'd love to talk with you first about growing up in Minnesota.
01:35First of all, I feel so lucky to have grown up in Minnesota. All of the rumors that you hear
01:39about
01:39Minnesotans being very nice are very true. I can't remember a single time.
01:43I was bullied, which is so rare and, I think, special, and I'm so privileged to have grown
01:48up in that kind of environment. But that's not to say I didn't feel different. Me and my family
01:53were one of the few Asian families in a predominantly white, very, very white, upper-middle-class
01:59neighborhood in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. I already felt different just walking straight out of my
02:04house knowing that we were the only family on the block who were Asian. When my dad would mow the
02:09lawn,
02:09everyone would slow down, everyone would wave, but we were the Asian family on the block.
02:14And there's nothing I could do to pretend that I wasn't Asian. And so all of the stereotypes that
02:20you get, the non-malicious stereotypes that you get about being Asian were all applied to me
02:26growing up. So there's nothing I could do to try to fit in with everyone else because I was always
02:30going to be the one girl in the class that stood out a little bit.
02:34And you were born in China.
02:35I was born in China. And we moved around a lot when my parents immigrated to America. But we
02:40always moved to very, very white suburban neighborhoods from Nebraska to Alabama to
02:46eventually Minnesota. It's insane. So growing up, I never really considered myself, you know,
02:51part of a Chinese community. I always considered myself American or Minnesotan, you know. But I
02:56knew that I was different. And I knew that, you know, me wearing Abercrombie clothes, or limited to or
03:02whatever all the kids were wearing back then, still, I still looked different. And frankly,
03:07those clothes were really expensive. And for my parents who grew up with very, very little,
03:11moving to America where everything was all of a sudden way more expensive. And we were all on a
03:16budget. They're just like, no way we're going to be spending $20 on a t-shirt you're going to grow
03:21out of within six months. It's outrageous. It's dumb. And there's glitter on it. You can't even wash it
03:25and, you know, laundry. So I had to get a little bit creative with hand-me-downs. There was nothing
03:30unfair about it. It was just the way it was. But the great thing about my mom especially was that
03:34she taught me to look through every single item and find the one thing in the rack that was special
03:39because there was always going to be one thing or at least one thing. So that's the thing I think
03:45that Minnesota really taught me, that there's always going to be treasure. It just depends on how
03:49willing you are to look for it. I was reading like fashion blogs that were hosted on Blogspot.
03:56I think Susie Bubble was one of the first ones that I read. It was stuff like Iamfashion.blogspot.com
04:03or, you know, IamtheAsianLeprechaun.blogspot.com. These are like fashion toast was coming around.
04:09Personal style blogs were just starting. But back then, like the majority of blogs that were on the
04:13internet were about commentary, like commenting on fashion, dissecting what are the coolest,
04:18newest brands, like what do designer collaborations even mean? You know, that was what the norm in fashion
04:24blogdom was. And so when I started my blog in my parents' basement in Minnesota, that's what I thought
04:30blogs were, talking about fashion rather than talking about my style. Because frankly, at the time, I just
04:36didn't have the capacity to talk about my style because it was just fun, you know. But I could talk
04:40about
04:41what Marc Jacobs was doing, you know, what these new boutiques in Hong Kong and stuff that I've never
04:46even heard of. Like I could comment on, you know, like how we wanted that for Minnesota or, you know,
04:51what H&M was, this Swedish sort of massive retailer that I had never even heard of. And I saw
04:57once when
04:58I went to New York on a class trip. So that's what I thought fashion blogging was. And unfortunately,
05:03in the years that followed, it became less and less cool to do that and less people wanted to do
05:09it.
05:09But there are, you know, writers and bloggers who eventually became, you know, powerhouses like
05:14Susie Bubble, Susie Lau, who stuck around. But it was a really fun time on the internet.
05:20You just had your seven-year anniversary at Refinery29. You were employee number six.
05:24Number six. That's right.
05:25And I just remember how different your style was from then until now. And it's been such an honor to
05:32observe you evolving over the last decade. I'd like you to describe your style now.
05:38I would say that I shop smart in that I don't buy very many pieces. And each piece I buy
05:45is a little
05:45bit special. But I dress really lazily. I'm usually wearing just two items in my shoes,
05:51of course. I like the idea of shapes, you know, big exaggerated proportions, menswear. I'm so
05:57fascinated by the way that Japanese women dress. I don't wear a lot of black. And that's a big shift
06:03of mine that's happened in the past 10 years. I feel like black is so obvious for a New Yorker.
06:11And I
06:11shy away from things that are girly and ultra feminine and, you know, roughly and make me look
06:17like thin or petite or cutesy. Because I feel like I already project that kind of vibe anyways,
06:23which is the way that I am and I talk. And the fact that I'm like a short petite Asian
06:28girl that
06:28I feel like I don't want to really play into those stereotypes too much.
06:33What stands out the most to me is that you rely on a lot less than you used to. And
06:39I think that's
06:40a really interesting philosophy in that the more confident we become, we don't need so much.
06:45I mean, I think about the time when I first started a refinery, I would think about my outfits a
06:51lot.
06:51You know, I would wake up early, put together what I was wearing, look at myself in the mirror,
06:56and then change something, put something else on. I'm like, is the balance right? Is this like,
06:59is the skirt matching with the whatever? Like, I don't look in the mirror these days very much.
07:05I don't care as much, you know, like I like my clothes, and I like my style, and I don't
07:10need
07:10it to look perfect.
07:12I want to talk about a very important memory that you and I share. We were traveling in Milan
07:19during Fashion Week. We had been dreaming about going to the Marni outlet. We love a bargain.
07:24And we're both really dedicated hunters. So we were practically running to the Marni store.
07:29Practically, we're. We're running.
07:31Definitely running.
07:32Yes, you have a picture of me running, actually, running to the path. And when we were checking
07:38out of the Marni outlet, this young Italian woman who didn't speak very much English looks at you,
07:44and then she looks at your credit card, and she looks back at you, and she looks back at your
07:48credit card. And then she says, Connie Wong. And we both were sort of like, oh my god, is there
07:55a
07:55warrant out for your arrest? And she sort of, you know, took her hand to her chest, and she was
07:59like,
08:01Refinery29. She's like, I love your work. And I think I might have started crying on the spot.
08:06This is a long ways away from New York. And I think that that was really such a moment for
08:14you
08:14and I to not only realize how far the impact of a work reaches, but to see what your writing
08:25meant
08:25to her. And it was specifically the story about ugly shoes. Tell us about that essay.
08:32It started when, you know, I saw a Japanese woman walking down the street outside of our office in
08:38Astor Place, and she was wearing these white Birkenstocks that I'm actually wearing today
08:44with a back strap. I chased her down. I was like, where did you get those? Because I've only seen
08:49the one with the double strap. Like, there's no back strap. And she didn't speak English, and she
08:54couldn't tell me where she got them, and I was obsessed. And so I went online. I checked and checked.
08:59All my friends were like, do not get those, Connie. They look so bad. And this is, I think this
09:03is
09:03before the Birkenstocks craze took off. And I had to have them, and I bought them, and people made
09:09fun of me. Like, my friends made fun of me. They were like, these are the ugliest shoes I've ever
09:13seen. And to be honest, they do make my feet look like baguettes. Like, the short ones, not the long
09:20skinny ones. Like, the short squat baguettes. But I love them so much. And, you know, even the past
09:25seven years, like, I started off wearing only heels to work. Do you remember that? Every day I wore
09:30wedges, like, actual proper heels, like, heeled sandals, strappy sandals. It was pumps. Oh, my
09:37gosh. And I attribute a lot of that style change to, you know, just, like, the changes in, you know,
09:41who I am as a woman, as a professional. And so this essay was a lot about, you know, why
09:47I like ugly
09:47shoes. And, you know, why I'm thinking that the industry was shifting at the time to, you know,
09:52sell more ugly shoes. You know, women didn't want to wear, like, dainty, like, petite, precious
09:57shoes that were uncomfortable anymore. And I thought that was an amazing, awesome thing.
10:02And women shouldn't be scared about, you know, ugliness.
10:05Or perceived ugliness.
10:07Perceived ugliness. And it should be a badge of honor, I think. I, whenever I see another woman
10:11still in, like, ugly shoes, I'm just like, I know I could be friends with her.
10:14But I think that that essay, what was so important about it, and continues to be important, is that it
10:19represented for you and I, who really believe in this, in this feeling that you don't have to sort of
10:25look predictably feminine, to be cool, or to be stylish. And that's okay. And comfort is
10:30really important. And it's not something to be embarrassed about. You know, you have to suffer
10:34for fashion. You know, I don't necessarily believe that. I don't think you do either.
10:38I think for a lot of places, clothes are meant to do a few things to women. They're meant to
10:43make
10:44them look skinny, tall, more feminine, and richer.
10:47And attractive to men.
10:48And attractive to men. Yes, exactly. And I don't think that we operate under those
10:52assumptions at Refinery29, which is so liberating. You know, clothes are meant to make you look more
10:57you. You know, more authentic, more interesting, more comfortable. It's, the clothes are supposed
11:02to aid you in doing the things that you already want to do in your life, and more. And so
11:07when we
11:08do our, any story, like a shopping roundup, when we do a fashion news story about an industry thing
11:14that many people might not care about, but, or know the players within it, but, you know, the themes
11:19might be things that they don't understand. Or, you know, when we ask someone to write a personal
11:23essay about a topic, we always tell them that they cannot assume that our readers care about
11:29looking skinny, or looking tall, or feminine, or attractive to men.
11:32I think that that's a new concept, though. I think that there's finally an open dialogue
11:38in this industry about the fact that we cannot assume that all women want to look thin.
11:46Yeah.
11:47It's wrong.
11:48Yeah.
11:48And, you know, sort of imposing that ideal onto women is really toxic.
11:54It might seem like such a subtle, non-harmful thing to be like, oh my god, that looks so
12:00flattering on you. It makes you look so skinny. It's like a little worm that just pours itself
12:05into your brain, or like, oh, skinny is good. I must always look skinny. I must never wear
12:09anything that makes me look a little bit wider than I am. When I was single, and like, my entire
12:14goal for an entire evening was to, like, meet guys, I had to look skinny to make that happen.
12:18And now I could care less about whether I look thin, or big, or square, or like a bowling
12:25pin, or like whatever. I don't care about what shape I look like any day. Like, and it's
12:29actually sort of alarming when people are like, oh my god, your waist looks so thin. I'm like,
12:32it does? I'm like, what did I do? You know, like, what's wrong? And I think that most people
12:38who work at Refinery29 espouse those values and that mission, I think that's so awesome.
12:43Like, we just did this massive package on Generation Z, which is the generation after
12:49millennials. And it was so surprising and encouraging to me to realize that it's the
12:54norm for this generation to understand that, you know, women are whole beings. And that
13:01extensive the way they dress, too. You know, from all of the teens that we talked to, no one
13:05was like, oh yes, I would love to look this, like, this, like, very outdated model of, like,
13:11what a woman traditionally should look like. No one ever said that. Everyone's like, oh,
13:15I want to look, like, boyish today, and, like, maybe girly tomorrow. Or, like, the trends that
13:20they looked to were, you know, could be traditionally thought of as really unattractive, or, like,
13:24unflattering. And I think that's so cool. I think that this idea that, like, fashion is only
13:29meant for a certain kind of person is really getting to be very outdated. And that's so cool to me.
13:35And I think you are such a beautiful example of this, is just showing, you know, how your style
13:39changes as you change. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with your style changing throughout the
13:44years, you know. You can't expect a human being to stay the same throughout their lifetime. And
13:49it's crazy to think that their style would stay the same. And I'm so proud of how I've been
13:52throughout my entire life. Even the embarrassing, horrible, like, not-so-fun moments to remember.
13:59But, like, it's a part of me. And the way that I used to dress, not to say that I
14:03would wear the
14:03same things I used to wear. But I look back on those moments with fondness, like, that Michael
14:08Kors duct tape dress. Like, that was me when I first moved to New York. And I was trying to
14:12do
14:12something with my clothes that, you know, I don't feel like I need to do anymore. But I had to
14:17do it
14:17back then to get to where I am now. I think that everyone is probably guilty of going through
14:21some awkward phases. But, you know, ours were- An awkward decade.
14:26Yeah. I felt like I was, like, 10 feet tall by the time I was in second grade. And it
14:31was just,
14:32it was bearing down on me. And I think that there is something that happens when, as a child,
14:40you are aware of being different. It's really not about being beautiful or not beautiful. It's really
14:47just about being different. And I think there's such a different sensibility about being different.
14:51There's more of a need to be different now, you know, with younger people.
14:56Yeah.
14:56So we have a series. It's a, this is the second year we're doing it. And it's called-
15:00Fuck the Fashion Rules.
15:03This industry, the fashion industry, is very sort of reliant on rule-based culture. Like,
15:08do this, don't do this.
15:10It's our fashion department's, like, banner series because we think that, you know,
15:14great personal style is not rule-based. It's all subjective. And what we like to do at
15:20Refinery is provide you with all the resources you need, all of the retailers, all of the
15:24products and trends and things that are possibly out there and let you make the decisions for
15:28yourself. We're never going to tell you what to wear because that's not our jobs. That's crazy.
15:34And we actually wanted to, you know, deliberately attack and break down the sort of idea that you
15:39have to follow rules in order to be stylish.
15:42Well, thank you so much for being on Unstyled, Connie.
15:45Thanks for having me, Christine.
15:46I hope you'll come back.
15:47Oh, yeah. I mean, you just have to turn around your desk and I'm going to be, I'm going to
15:51be
15:51there.
15:52No formal emails to you.
15:53No.
15:54Thanks, Connie.
15:55Thanks, Christine.
15:57I hope you're inspired after hearing Connie Wang's story. For even more Unstyled extras,
16:02check out Refinery29 or my Instagram at Christine Barbrick. You can also join the conversation using
16:08the hashtag Unstyled across your social media. And of course, we'd be super grateful if you'd
16:13please subscribe to Unstyled on iTunes and rate us while you're there. You can head to
16:18Refinery29.com to find this episode and more and make sure to sign up for our exclusive Unstyled
16:24newsletter delivered straight to your inbox every week. This season was produced and edited by Elisa
16:29Kreisinger with production assistance from Rebecca Easley for Refinery29. Copy and research support
16:35provided by Lila Brilsen. Our theme music today is by the artist Koff. Hannes Brown produced our episode
16:41music and we recorded Unstyled with Paul Ruist. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, and I hope
16:47you've enjoyed Unstyled just as much as we've enjoyed making it for you. We'll see you back
16:52here next season.