Cuarto Milenio - 4x34 - Mendigos milagrosos - Parte 1 - HD 720 - Vídeo Dailymotion

Cuarto Milenio Fans

- ¿Están cambiando?: Un equipo de Cuarto Milenio ha recorrido varias zonas de España en las que, según los testimonios de pastores y ganaderos, el comportamiento de los buitres ha variado de manera extraordinaria. Muchos de ellos relatan como fueron atacados por estas aves carroñeras y como mataron a piezas de su ganado. Los naturalistas y documentalistas Luis Miguel Domínguez y Fernando González Sitges analizarán el porqué de estos ataques y el aumento de agresividad respecto al hombre que han mostrado otras especies.   - Mendigos milagrosos: La aparición repentina de un extraño individuo desató miedo y temor entre los vecinos de dos barriadas españolas. Sin embargo, la gente que no le rehuyó acabó recibiendo un supuesto milagro. Algunos de los protagonistas de estos hechos mágicos relatarán cómo les conmocionaron. Además, el doctor José Cabrera y el director de la ofician para la causa de los Santos del Opus Dei en España José Carlos Martín de la Hoz analizaran desde las vertientes de la mente y la religión estos sucesos.   - Experiencias, Ouija interrumpida: Una carta llegada a la Nave del Misterio narra la terrible experiencia de una telespectadora tras realizar una sesión de ouija.   - Eremitas, piedras y oscuridad: Un recorrido por una serie de cuevas y agujeros naturales que los antiguos eremitas empleaban como lugar de meditación, vivienda y martirio. Tumbas cavadas en las piedras, extraños símbolos en las paredes son muestras de su vida en las entrañas de esas cuevas.

Transcript

00:00:27What are miracles?

00:00:29Do they really happen?

00:00:31Do you believe in them?

00:00:34Whatever the answer, opinions may change.

00:00:38after analyzing the case we have prepared.

00:00:42An investigation with documents, with data

00:00:44and also featuring strange characters

00:00:49unsettling, they looked more like beggars.

00:00:53Good evening and welcome to the mystery ship.

00:00:55It will be just one of the topics, but there is much more.

00:00:58Our journey is going to begin with fear, really.

00:01:01The fear that is devastating a family who has written to us

00:01:04after playing and interrupting a Ouija board session.

00:01:10You already know the symptoms and sometimes the consequences, right?

00:01:13We will also visit authentic churches carved into the rock,

00:01:19in different parts of our country.

00:01:21They still have inscriptions.

00:01:24History tells us that around the 4th century

00:01:27Some hermits believed that the church was gaining too much power,

00:01:34that to connect with God one had to withdraw.

00:01:38Sometimes almost, almost giving up on life.

00:01:41We will visit those places that are still there,

00:01:43closed to the general public,

00:01:45But our cameras have visited them.

00:01:47I wanted to start with a topic because of its relevance.

00:01:51We have been receiving complaints for some time now,

00:01:53even with some alarm.

00:01:55They come from the fields of Burgos, especially from Navarre,

00:01:59from some areas of northern Spain,

00:02:00where they say about the behavior of some animals

00:02:03has changed radically.

00:02:05Vultures, which are birds of a presence

00:02:09always associated with darkness.

00:02:12Necessary and beneficial animals,

00:02:14but suddenly,

00:02:15and seemingly out of nowhere,

00:02:17They are attacking live cattle,

00:02:19Some say to dogs,

00:02:21There has even been talk of people being afraid.

00:02:24This recording that you are seeing here

00:02:25It's a reality,

00:02:26because I've spoken to experts who told me

00:02:28all these rumors

00:02:29that have been coming for the last five years,

00:02:31From 2004 onwards,

00:02:33They were just that, legends, stories.

00:02:35No no.

00:02:35The story turns out to be true.

00:02:37We wanted to listen to those who are almost never heard,

00:02:40which is the wise voice of the countryside,

00:02:42to the cattle farmers,

00:02:43to the workers in those areas.

00:02:45What is happening?

00:02:46And we were truly surprised.

00:02:48The problem is much bigger than it seems.

00:02:52Are they changing?

00:02:52Not just vultures,

00:02:53but bears, wolves,

00:02:56in other countries,

00:02:57sharks, coyotes.

00:02:59Are we to blame?

00:03:01of this kind of surprise from the animal world?

00:03:06Let's find out.

00:03:07Specifically, we traveled to the lands of Navarre.

00:03:11Its sinister silhouette,

00:03:13associated with death,

00:03:15It has been soaring through the skies of the Iberian Peninsula

00:03:17since man began to walk on it.

00:03:20But he always behaved like a coward.

00:03:40Thousands of vulture pairs nest in our country,

00:03:43but hunger,

00:03:44caused a few years ago by the closure of illegal feeding stations,

00:03:48has caused his behavior to change.

00:03:50And those who used to eat dead meat,

00:03:55Now they are starting to attack living victims.

00:04:05Well, there was some livestock there

00:04:07And the vultures came,

00:04:09They attacked the cattle

00:04:11and they killed a sheep.

00:04:13Then they called the country house

00:04:15because there were two ladies and they got scared

00:04:18and went up with more people

00:04:22And then, since the vultures didn't leave...

00:04:25And there was a dog here.

00:04:27and they flew above the dog,

00:04:29So then we had to get a shotgun.

00:04:32and fire a shot into the air to guide them.

00:04:34And then they flew away.

00:04:37Undoubtedly the vulture,

00:04:39for several years now,

00:04:41It has gone from being a scavenger to a total predator.

00:04:44Total.

00:04:45And mainly here, what attacks us the most are the sheep.

00:04:49But hey, cows and mares giving birth, yes.

00:04:52To defend themselves against the vulture attack,

00:04:55Pastors are also changing their habits,

00:04:58especially regarding the moment

00:05:00where the females of their livestock will have offspring,

00:05:04locking the mothers in the corrals.

00:05:06The placenta and the smell of blood

00:05:08attracts scavengers to the point of attacking

00:05:11to large animals

00:05:12at such a delicate moment.

00:05:18One very important thing

00:05:20It's that at the time of delivery

00:05:22The animal is especially weak.

00:05:25Then at that halftime

00:05:26in which the feeders were adapted,

00:05:28Of course, the vultures didn't have the necessary patience.

00:05:31and especially at the moment an animal is about to give birth

00:05:35These attack the placenta a lot.

00:05:37Therefore,

00:05:39the waiting time that occurred

00:05:42before until an animal died

00:05:43Well, now is a very delicate moment

00:05:45That's precisely the topic.

00:05:46Because the attacks that are mentioned

00:05:48They are always associated with animals

00:05:50that cannot be moved

00:05:51either they are dead or they are dying,

00:05:54In other words, they have many difficulties.

00:05:55No, no, that has happened to me personally.

00:05:58I found a mare

00:06:00born with a colt

00:06:01And the vultures were nearby.

00:06:03The mare had a difficult birth

00:06:08and the mare could not get up

00:06:10and I was 6 kilometers from the town.

00:06:14So, of course,

00:06:14at the moment I moved away

00:06:16The vultures were going after the mare,

00:06:17They had already eaten the colt.

00:06:18The live mare

00:06:20I managed to move her a few meters away

00:06:22and by the time I go down to the village

00:06:24and they ate the mare alive,

00:06:25I am present.

00:06:45It is important to highlight

00:06:46that the vulture population

00:06:48It doubled in our country

00:06:50during the 1990s

00:06:51And now there isn't enough carrion for everyone.

00:06:56The cases of attacks

00:06:57by these scavengers

00:06:59in recent years

00:07:00they keep repeating themselves

00:07:01and it is not necessary to penetrate

00:07:04in rural areas

00:07:05where vultures live nearby

00:07:06to find dozens of testimonies

00:07:09of livestock farmers and shepherds

00:07:10who claim to have been witnesses

00:07:13of the aggressiveness of these birds.

00:07:18The Civil Guard was nearby

00:07:20and they managed to save the lamb

00:07:23but attack him inside the cattle.

00:07:27The pastor was there

00:07:28that wasn't there...

00:07:28It was far away

00:07:30And the vultures arrived

00:07:32but they counted 60 vultures

00:07:35and attack the sheep

00:07:37And let's go,

00:07:38because they were nearby

00:07:39But if not...

00:07:44Move the cow.

00:07:47I'm still recording

00:07:48I'm going to make you sit on Sunday, okay?

00:07:49There you have it.

00:07:50Live.

00:07:51You can see it live.

00:07:54Are you ready?

00:07:57The Civil Guard was there.

00:07:57Yes, I'm going to seat you on Sunday.

00:07:58Yes, I'm going to seat you on Sunday.

00:07:58Hey!

00:08:23Hey!

00:08:28No, no, no, no.

00:09:10No, no, no, no.

00:09:25No, no, no, no.

00:09:55No, no, no, no.

00:10:25No, no, no, no.

00:10:55No, no, no.

00:11:24No, no, no, no.

00:11:56No, no, no, no.

00:12:22No, no, no, no.

00:13:20No, no, no, no.

00:13:51No, no, no, no.

00:13:53No, no, no, no.

00:14:20No, no, no.

00:14:32No, no, no, no.

00:15:28No, no, no, no.

00:15:32No, no, no, no.

00:16:00No, no, no.

00:16:42No, no, no.

00:17:01No, no, no, no, no.

00:17:56No, no, no.

00:18:16No, no, no, no, no.

00:18:39No, no, no, no, no.

00:18:53No, no, no, no, no.

00:19:23No, no, no, no.

00:19:53No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:20:23Regarding animals, we don't know what's happening, if anything is happening at all; these are isolated cases.

00:20:28who are apparently changing their behavior.

00:20:31In the United States, a great deal has recently been published about various species in their ongoing debate with the

00:20:37name.

00:20:38Yes, especially one. Interestingly, this same conflict with vultures that exists here in the countryside also exists in the United States.

00:20:44They have it with another scavenger, but this time terrestrial, which are the coyotes.

00:20:48American ranchers are very used to dealing with coyotes; the coyote is an animal they consider commonplace.

00:20:55and that until now he had behaved very cautiously towards the man.

00:21:01You'd see a pair of coyotes and they'd tell you that all you had to do was throw a couple of stones at them for the animal to come out.

00:21:07running and reullies contact with the man.

00:21:10But here, for example, I have a cable from the Socialist Species Agency that said child attacked by coyote in

00:21:20New Jersey.

00:21:22There is a growing number of cases of coyotes showing aggression towards other species and humans.

00:21:31Ranchers in various states speak, much to the perplexity of naturalists, of coyotes even organized as

00:21:39small packs of wolves to hunt.

00:21:40To hunt coyotes that confront humans, shooting them is no longer effective.

00:21:48a couple of stones, but you really have to shoot into the air or even shoot the coyote itself to scare it away.

00:21:55From coyotes entering towns to steal food from garbage cans or to take pets

00:22:03of the gardens, dogs, cats, etc., etc.

00:22:06And, well, logically, people have their fears.

00:22:11What is striking is that almost all of these reports come, as I said, from rural areas where they are very

00:22:18They are used to the coyote and are alarmed because...

00:22:20There has been a change, of course.

00:22:21Because the coyote is not behaving the way it has been behaving until now.

00:22:25And there are those who say, there are those who say, Luis, my, Fernando, that in those gigantic urbanizations, in places that have gone

00:22:33encroaching on the countryside, for example, we are talking about this case in the United States or other countries,

00:22:37Various animals that previously never left their enclosure, which was their home, are coming down and trying the food.

00:22:43from the containers.

00:22:44They get used to that food and don't want anything else.

00:22:46And I ask, Fernando, is it a legend—which I thought was a legend perhaps until tonight—or is it the truth?

00:22:52No, no, it's the absolute truth. I mean, here in Madrid, we have foxes and wild boars that come around and cause trouble.

00:22:58our food per night.

00:22:59There in the United States the problem is a little more complex because we are indeed cornering them, or they are cornering them, as

00:23:05in so many other countries.

00:23:07But above all, it's an equation, as I was saying before, in which man has already intervened.

00:23:12and then he doesn't like the result.

00:23:14In other words, man eliminates the wolf, the great predator, which among other things controls the coyotes.

00:23:19If there are no wolves, the coyotes multiply and eventually they get hungry.

00:23:24Wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone a few years ago and the balance was restored in almost five years.

00:23:30They have achieved balance again,

00:23:31But the coyotes have been brought under control again; they are behaving normally now.

00:23:35Now, a coyote is not a vulture, a coyote is a hunter.

00:23:38On its scale, that is, with a child, a coyote, the same as a dog, but it is just as dangerous.

00:23:43And above all, an opportunist. Opportunism isn't just...

00:23:46And they hunt in packs; they are intelligent.

00:23:48Opportunism in humans is a flaw, but in animals it is a virtue.

00:23:53And all these animals are opportunistic; they are capable of taking advantage of the most disastrous and suicidal species there is.

00:23:59on the planet, which is ours.

00:24:00We're leaving everything full of detritus, garbage, and easy food.

00:24:05There has already been a change, because people ask me the same thing and I pass on what many people tell me

00:24:08says.

00:24:09Hey, this whole climate change thing, this change in nature, seems to be affecting these species.

00:24:14And on another level, there's the change that we humans are subjecting the planet to—how far will it go?

00:24:19arrive?

00:24:19Because their entire environment has changed.

00:24:22Now, for example, in the case of our country, a real fact is occurring.

00:24:26And it is that more than 80% of the Spanish population, which has grown demographically, this country has

00:24:32As it has grown, it is located in centers, which are the large cities.

00:24:36The countryside is becoming depopulated.

00:24:38And there are species that are recolonizing, well, even specifically in the province of Madrid we have the Iberian wolf.

00:24:45What we're seeing here, which might attract a lot of attention, is an elephant that, well, starts to trample...

00:24:51the people.

00:24:53Animals say their relationship with men is changing.

00:24:56Well, specifically, I've recently been doing some research to make

00:25:02A story about animals and man, about man-eaters, which you know we've always loved.

00:25:07We've even talked about them on the show.

00:25:08And curiously, while reading about elephants, I came across this case, and I'll tell you about one now, in this case

00:25:15It's a male that has the must.

00:25:17And it's crazy to bring an elephant out in a parade in a state of... the must is a state of...

00:25:24sexual overexcitement, in which the animal has such a high amount of testosterone that it is pure violence.

00:25:32I mean, providence in an elephant, a male, an adult. I mean, that's a machine, the most dangerous thing ever, so much so.

00:25:37that the rest of the elephants avoid him, except for the females that are in heat.

00:25:41In other words, it is a dangerous animal even to members of its own species.

00:25:43The most impressive thing here, Fernando, perhaps, about these images, is the, let's say, the feat with which, right?

00:25:50It not only causes harm but also affects his life.

00:25:52It seems like a lie.

00:25:53Yes, indeed. Man, he says, you have the memory of an elephant, don't you? They're animals that memorize.

00:25:59And these animals—and Fernando is studying this matter—that have lived in captivity, are surely remembering more than

00:26:06a lash and more than one thing.

00:26:08I was going to tell you that the second case, which also came out recently in a circus, in a

00:26:13The circus in Europe was the same.

00:26:14An elephant was brought out onto the ring full of people, and at the moment they brought it out it seemed that

00:26:19He went crazy and started crushing one of the people who were there.

00:26:22The elephant keeper went to save them and was crushed too; he wasn't even pricked, he was simply crushed.

00:26:26Imagine the base of the trunk against the ground.

00:26:29And by analyzing how this story could have happened, they began to look for the background of this elephant and discovered that

00:26:37It was a small elephant that had been taken from a herd in South Africa,

00:26:41These are the ones who carry out selective killings, who kill the whole family and leave the little ones alive.

00:26:45And as you rightly say, it's not those who have memory, it's those who have intelligence.

00:26:48They are very sociable animals, and if you are a child, and one of their species comes along and kills your entire family...

00:26:54The best part is you don't realize it for a while, but you've got it firmly ingrained.

00:26:57While I was in Cangas del Narcea, here in Asturias, at a livestock market, the farmers were telling me

00:27:03How is it very common that when you touch a calf, a male,

00:27:07to what will be a dairy bull, not a fighting bull, but a bull that thrives in strong sunlight, that reaches

00:27:11weigh up to a ton,

00:27:13When you have to put the ear tag on a young bull, you know that's the mark that...

00:27:18It is placed in his ear,

00:27:19or the ring that is put in his nose and then pulled, and therefore he

00:27:22It's harmful; the farmer shouldn't be present.

00:27:25Only the veterinarian should do it; the farmer should not be seen by that animal.

00:27:31Because I can assure you that that bull swears it to you, he swears it to you, and indeed 3, 4, 5, 10 years

00:27:38after,

00:27:39If you're picking lettuce, it's going to come up behind you and give you a fright.

00:27:44And the cattle farmers know this.

00:27:45Look at what we were talking about, there it has already stopped attacking people and is attacking another elephant.

00:27:49Yes, yes.

00:27:51But, Fernando, that's all, don't cross the border.

00:27:53That's what I was going to tell you.

00:27:54It looks like it's crossing, doesn't it?

00:27:54The most extreme case, for which there were no references until now,

00:27:58And that's what made me really start writing this story,

00:28:03This is the case of chimpanzees in Uganda.

00:28:05I'm going to ask you about that.

00:28:07Monkeys attacking?

00:28:08They are in the place of highest density, Kivale National Park, in Uganda,

00:28:13the highest density of chimpanzees in the world.

00:28:16So, instead of protecting and creating a conservation area prior to the park,

00:28:19as they often do in many parks,

00:28:20because it has become surrounded by tea and cornfields,

00:28:25cultivated fields.

00:28:25And they've surrounded it, they haven't left any escape route for the...

00:28:28And on the other hand, farmers are extremely poor people,

00:28:33So, to have a slightly extra meal,

00:28:35in addition to the corn or tea they grow, or bananas, or whatever else,

00:28:39They go into the jungle and kill the small antelopes,

00:28:43small monkeys, the colobus monkeys,

00:28:45animals that are the source of protein for chimpanzees,

00:28:48that hunt in groups and are animals...

00:28:49People have a very mistaken idea of a chimpanzee.

00:28:52A chimpanzee...

00:28:52A male.

00:28:53A chimpanzee was talking to me the other day, speaking with a great expert.

00:28:55What else is there in Madrid, besides chimpanzees?

00:28:59He told me, people don't realize that an adult chimpanzee

00:29:02He lifts 500 kilos with one hand.

00:29:04Yes, yes.

00:29:05500 kilos.

00:29:07And if they also have fangs,

00:29:08like chimpanzees, who are impressive,

00:29:10It is a formidable killing weapon.

00:29:12So these chimpanzees,

00:29:13when they have a time of scarcity of fruits in the jungle

00:29:16and on top of that they run out of protein,

00:29:18They go out to the fields for two things,

00:29:21to eat the fruit and to hunt children.

00:29:23Then they run away.

00:29:25It has gotten to the point where the women who are digging are coming out,

00:29:27They usually leave the child on the floor,

00:29:29But there are some who still wear it on their clothes,

00:29:30These are the ones that are charged behind your back.

00:29:32They run away, and a chimpanzee runs much faster than you.

00:29:34They snatch the child away and eat him.

00:29:36But I say, Fernando,

00:29:37What is the difference between a child and a colobus monkey?

00:29:40It's a small one, a different kind of tiny chimpanzee.

00:29:43No difference.

00:29:44But what is clear is that more than climate change

00:29:47or somewhat exogenous issues,

00:29:49Many people said, popular memory,

00:29:51that mobile phone antennas...

00:29:53Also, also, make no mistake about it.

00:29:55Oh, you think so too?

00:29:56Well, the way sonar is affecting things, no doubt.

00:29:58to the cetaceans and disorients them and such,

00:30:01It has also been said that...

00:30:02Hey, well, I was going to tell him, well,

00:30:03Typical urban legend, you leave me speechless, don't you?

00:30:05This has been studied, and it is evident that there are waves.

00:30:07that they are modifying some behaviors, that's for sure.

00:30:10What I would like to know is that ours are being modified.

00:30:13which also happens.

00:30:14Well, don't fit in.

00:30:15That's a different debate, Fernando.

00:30:17But really, we learn so much from you.

00:30:19It's a real treat to have friends like you on this show.

00:30:22Luis Miguel Domínguez, Fernando González Hiches,

00:30:24a pleasure.

00:30:25Next up, sharks.

00:30:26Come on, we'll be around.

00:30:27Come on, thanks for coming.

00:30:28Santi, we're staying, right?

00:30:30Well, what more is there to say?

00:30:31What more can I say?

00:30:32Anyway, here are some images to keep in mind.

00:30:34Why don't we go on a trip to a specific spot in our country?

00:30:36Where have some figures appeared?

00:30:39I want you to see them.

00:31:00You may wonder why this map appears here.

00:31:02We are going to travel to a specific point in the Canary Islands.

00:31:06Something that attracts a lot of attention from researchers and curious people.

00:31:08In a natural park with very restricted access.

00:31:11Some signs have appeared.

00:31:13There have been reports that have mentioned a Nazca Lines in the Canary Islands.

00:31:15You know, those kinds of figures that you can see from a great height.

00:31:19They are modern figures.

00:31:21Nobody knows what they're doing there.

00:31:23Who made them?

00:31:23Some suspect it's all a trick to get us talking about them.

00:31:27Others are considering various possibilities.

00:31:30But they are impressive.

00:31:31Please, let's take the flight.

00:31:33See the effect.

00:31:36150 meters long.

00:31:38Lanzarote.

00:31:39Discovered in the heights.

00:31:41The arrow.

00:31:43Impressive because it's made with detail.

00:31:46Separating the almost volcanic pebbles from that area.

00:31:50Near Yaisa.

00:31:51By the way, a big hug to all the wonderful people there.

00:31:55Hospitable people who have encountered this within a natural park.

00:31:58Carmen, what do we know?

00:31:59We know that it is inside El Ajache Park.

00:32:02It is a natural park, as Iker said, with restricted access.

00:32:05And we also know other things.

00:32:06For example, this figure did not exist in the year 2000.

00:32:10150 meters long.

00:32:1218 wide.

00:32:13This can be seen perfectly, as we are seeing, from satellite photographs.

00:32:18But when?

00:32:19At what point?

00:32:20And how did they create this and other drawings?

00:32:24Important, Carmen.

00:32:24When you're there, for example, you can't see anything.

00:32:27That effect is born.

00:32:28Only from above.

00:32:30This needs to be taken into account.

00:32:31We would like to thank, of course, José Herbre González, and all our people from the Canary Islands.

00:32:34Also to researcher Jaime Rubio.

00:32:37They say that several British and American agencies were the first to photograph this.

00:32:41Guillermo has been given something very interesting.

00:32:43Which is accessing previous satellite photographs of the same site.

00:32:48And this is very recent.

00:32:50Various theories.

00:32:52Rites.

00:32:52Because in the Canary Islands many people make signs, have made signs in very specific places.

00:32:57A gigantic joke.

00:32:59Or something else.

00:33:00There was even talk of signs for construction.

00:33:02But there is no construction of anything.

00:33:03Let's move on to the next figure.

00:33:05We traveled into space again.

00:33:06What are we going to see, Carmen?

00:33:07Let's look at a humanoid figure.

00:33:10It even looks like he's running.

00:33:13At first glance, it really catches my eye.

00:33:14As we approach the area, we can see how it is perfectly outlined.

00:33:19There it is.

00:33:19A kind of being that appears to be walking or running with its arms outstretched.

00:33:25A being, as we see, also enormous.

00:33:28Very well done.

00:33:29Yes, it's very well done because it also gives the feeling of movement.

00:33:34So someone had to be watching from above.

00:33:37Otherwise, it would be almost impossible on the ground.

00:33:40It looks like a launcher, doesn't it?

00:33:41Something that wanders around.

00:33:43It looks very similar, not only to anthropomorphic figures.

00:33:46We recently told you about discoveries in Nazca, Peru.

00:33:49The difference is that those are from before Christ, practically.

00:33:51And this is very modern.

00:33:52But even in Uftington and other parts of the United Kingdom there are similar figures as early as the 17th century and

00:33:58XVIII.

00:33:58Well, but this is very modern.

00:34:00What's behind here?

00:34:02Who does this?

00:34:03What exactly for?

00:34:04Well, there's one more piece of information, Carmen, and it's some circles that we're going to look at now.

00:34:08They were the first ones that caught the attention of the researchers.

00:34:10And that motivated José Valorio González in particular to begin investigating.

00:34:15They are more like crop circles.

00:34:17The crop circles that were forming in England.

00:34:21The truth is that what appears in the English fields now are truly like drawings.

00:34:26Here we are seeing those circles, perfectly made circumferences.

00:34:31Many on this occasion, as if they were real extraterrestrial ships that had landed and burned this land.

00:34:39Iker, once again we find ourselves facing formations that are very close in time.

00:34:44Someone must have done them with some intention, but what we don't know is what that intention was.

00:34:49completed.

00:34:50There has even been talk of advertisements.

00:34:52And look, but then the same old thing always happens on TV.

00:34:56Now we're going to tell people, and they'll say, no, I said they're aliens.

00:34:59No, quite the opposite.

00:35:00There are many hypotheses, and this is probably something related to construction materials.

00:35:07With some kind of plan that is drawn up before construction.

00:35:10But investigations by our colleagues in the Canary Islands have also shown that, for the moment, that is not the case.

00:35:16I haven't seen any plans that have a humanoid figure or an arrow with little circles or stars.

00:35:21That's absolutely right. We're talking about this specific case. We're talking about what was specifically discussed regarding the circles.

00:35:25But we don't know what it is. It's recent. So most likely someone wants to tell us something.

00:35:31Someone very humane.

00:35:32If anyone knows anything more, be careful because there's a tricky situation here too.

00:35:37The two previous cases are in places where moving stones has criminal consequences.

00:35:43Who has risked doing all that so that, for example, we are talking about it on Cuarto Milenio?

00:35:48It's a mystery. It's happening. We don't know what's going on.

00:35:51It's our duty to share these images. They're breathtaking.

00:35:53And we've asked our correspondent there in the Canary Islands, José Gregorio González, to give us the latest information, Carmen. They are

00:35:59these.

00:35:59On the one hand, there is a clearly artificial and intentional origin regarding the arrow of the ajaches,

00:36:09in the natural monument of Los Ajaches, a protected area.

00:36:12And on the other hand, when we see a series of concentric circles located on the Rubicon,

00:36:18We are dealing with artificial structures or formations, but not intentional ones.

00:36:24In other words, they are the product of an urban development project that was never completed, and that is the trace that remains.

00:36:29It remained in that territory.

00:36:31Well, we know they are artificial in those two cases, and there is a third case, which is what they call humanoid.

00:36:36which is an absolutely natural formation, whimsical on the island, due, let's say, to the volcanic features of the area

00:36:45and that the photograph has been intentionally enhanced to highlight certain features and, let's say, give it a slightly more defined shape.

00:36:53that way

00:36:54which does not naturally occur in such a precise manner.

00:37:01Now we are going to talk about miracles, different, strange miracles, that marked their communities.

00:37:10It all started, I'll confess, with a short news item in a newspaper.

00:37:15One of many that we have in the newspaper archive.

00:37:19We were pursuing something else and, suddenly, almost hidden in the morass of lines, there it was.

00:37:25which might also catch your attention.

00:37:29As soon as I read what I'm about to read to you, I said, we have to follow this lead.

00:37:32The Cifra agency reported on December 21, 1971, for the ABC newspaper,

00:37:39strange case of healing in a town in Zamora.

00:37:44An individual helps a young woman regain movement in one of her legs and then disappears.

00:37:49And the end of that telex also made me suspect things, which have since been confirmed.

00:37:56In response to this, the residents of Santoveña de Lesla, in Zamora,

00:38:00They have searched the entire region trying to find the strange character, without success in their attempt.

00:38:06We too have searched for the miraculous beggar.

00:38:10Amazing. A figure whose presence was unsettling.

00:38:14We are not talking about religion or church, but, as I was saying, about something completely different.

00:38:20What's amazing is that we had a previous case, 11 years earlier, a perfect, exact copy, in the south of Madrid.

00:38:28We are going to begin this journey and this investigation because, just as I suspected when I read this,

00:38:33In the small town of Zamora, that was integrated into the collective and popular history,

00:38:39that which is immortal and does not forget.

00:38:41We went there and made some amazing discoveries.

00:39:09The residents of Santoveña de Los Ángeles

00:39:15And this man came and healed her.

00:39:55Her mother ran out into the street, saying it was a miracle, it was a miracle, that she had been cured.

00:39:58That's what I have, and that's what people say.

00:40:04Miracle! Miracle!

00:40:05Oh! Oh! Oh! My daughter is walking! My daughter is walking!

00:40:09He left as quickly as he came.

00:40:12He left as quickly as he came.

00:40:14But it was seen again.

00:40:27Even if I knock on the door of this house, here in Santoveña de Lesla, in Zamora,

00:40:32Former number one on Castillo Street, I'm sure nobody will open the door for me.

00:40:37This is because it has been abandoned for a long time, but it wasn't at the end of 1971.

00:40:43When a middle-aged man, ragged and disheveled, knocked on the door,

00:40:48Yes, they opened it and he saw the girl Antonia.

00:40:50This girl wore a leg brace.

00:40:54Upon seeing her, this man promised to heal her.

00:40:57He told her to rest for six days and after the seventh she would be cured.

00:41:02And so he did.

00:41:04The life of the girl Antonia Aliste changed forever that afternoon in late December 1971

00:41:11with the visit of such a strange character.

00:41:15Apparently, something inexplicable happened that allowed her to walk again.

00:41:21And she saw a girl who was born with a bad leg,

00:41:24He had some iron prostheses, some things,

00:41:29And a gentleman came,

00:41:31He went in, and they were left alone in the room with him.

00:41:34He told her that no one would be allowed in.

00:41:35They don't know what he gave her.

00:41:36They asked him if he was drunk on whatever it was,

00:41:39and if after six days,

00:41:42She was walking again.

00:42:09Six days later,

00:42:10They removed the iron bars.

00:42:12He's clumsy,

00:42:13But the lady is doing perfectly fine.

00:42:17He had three children, four,

00:42:19I've been told four,

00:42:21I was working and everything.

00:42:24And they removed the irons from his legs.

00:42:27Regarding the possible cure of the girl Antonia Aliste,

00:42:31Opinions are divided.

00:42:33Some believe he is fully cured.

00:42:35and others, partially.

00:42:38The truth is that the visit of that alleged beggar

00:42:41It affected the young woman's health.

00:42:44Yes, yes, he moved well.

00:42:45But I've seen her work,

00:42:47that he was going to work at a house in Benavente,

00:42:51And she handled it well.

00:42:53He had cattle, and also some sheep,

00:42:55I think it would help the husband.

00:42:57He who believes in miraculous healings,

00:43:00Of course there are,

00:43:01But what I can't say is that she was,

00:43:03It wasn't a complete cure, of course.

00:43:05because I've continued to get to know the girl,

00:43:09now older, married, and with children,

00:43:11and he's still limping,

00:43:12and her leg is still much thinner than the other.

00:43:15In other words, it wasn't a complete cure.

00:43:18That he would improve from the illness he had, which was poliomyelitis.

00:43:21because of how badly his leg had been left,

00:43:24Well, yes, it did improve.

00:43:26But who was that stranger?

00:43:28who miraculously cured Antonia Aliste?

00:43:31What became of him?

00:43:33Why did no one ever see him again?

00:43:40When the Cuarto Milenio team

00:43:42visited Santovenia de Lesla,

00:43:44He discovered that a woman named Josefa de Prado

00:43:47I knew the girl Antonia Aliste very well.

00:43:49and to his family.

00:43:51What is certain is that

00:43:54Mrs. Josefa would pray a great deal for that family.

00:43:58First, because the girl's father

00:44:02It was already a mutilated medium.

00:44:08It was bad.

00:44:10He was a bailiff for many years.

00:44:11because they would give him a little salary

00:44:13on behalf of the people

00:44:16because he couldn't do other jobs.

00:44:18The little girl with polio.

00:44:19The mother was working,

00:44:22who was very hardworking

00:44:22and distressed by the problem

00:44:24of the only daughter and seeing her like that.

00:44:26The mysterious appearance of the beggar,

00:44:29according to popular opinion,

00:44:30It could be associated with strange powers

00:44:33related to Josefa de Prado.

00:44:35There was a lady here.

00:44:37whose name was Josefa de Prado,

00:44:38who got along very well with this other one

00:44:41And she said that wasn't the work of that man,

00:44:44but the work of Josefa de Prado

00:44:46that she had sent Jesus to heal her.

00:44:49That's what we've heard.

00:44:52that I heard

00:44:53And she always believed

00:44:54that Josefa de Prado had cured her.

00:44:57Who was that beggar?

00:44:59Was it an apparition prompted by Josefa de Prado?

00:45:03A collective hallucination?

00:45:05Or a real being with miraculous abilities?

00:45:09Just one week later

00:45:11of the alleged miracle of Santovenia,

00:45:13December 26th,

00:45:15Josefa de Prado died,

00:45:17victim of terminal cancer.

00:45:20Was it the cure of Antonia Aliste?

00:45:22the final test of the passage through the land

00:45:24of a woman with a vocation to sainthood?

00:45:27Who was he really?

00:45:29that benevolent lady?

00:45:32And she lived alone.

00:45:34She lived alone, like I said,

00:45:36with the children,

00:45:37taking care of the children.

00:45:38Out of charity, she didn't charge anything.

00:45:42And so,

00:45:43doing good in the church,

00:45:45all the people,

00:45:46if there was a sick person,

00:45:47I was going to visit him,

00:45:48if when the war,

00:45:50when people went

00:45:52and they passed by his house,

00:45:53She gave him scapulars

00:45:54What was he doing there?

00:45:57And well,

00:45:57Well, that's all I could do

00:45:59for good, for bad,

00:46:00And I think everyone

00:46:02speaks well of her.

00:46:03He was kind,

00:46:04It was simple,

00:46:06She was pious,

00:46:07very fervent

00:46:09on the occasions

00:46:10in which he spoke

00:46:12to the young women

00:46:13or in the church

00:46:14or when you saw her

00:46:15to do the Stations of the Cross

00:46:16with great devotion.

00:46:18For many,

00:46:19The life of Josefa de Prado

00:46:21It could have ended

00:46:22fatally while young

00:46:24if it weren't

00:46:24for an alleged

00:46:25divine intervention.

00:46:27She had a boyfriend,

00:46:28the boyfriend says

00:46:29that left her,

00:46:30She threw herself into a well

00:46:31And what if the Virgin of Carmen

00:46:32He saved her.

00:46:33That's also being discussed.

00:46:35They are still in circulation today

00:46:37by Santovenia de Lesla

00:46:38the precious scapulars

00:46:40manufactured

00:46:41by Josefa de Prado,

00:46:42the same ones he offered

00:46:43to the dying

00:46:45from his village,

00:46:46objects that for some

00:46:47they still keep

00:46:49a mysterious power.

00:46:51And he gave you scapulars

00:46:52And that's so you could take them.

00:46:53always on top,

00:46:56scapulars

00:46:56I blessed them for you,

00:46:57I gave them to you already blessed

00:46:58of a priest

00:47:00and that you put them

00:47:01and it was a thing

00:47:01So what was she saying?

00:47:02so it wouldn't get in

00:47:04well, that's how people are

00:47:05that they wanted to hurt you

00:47:06or such

00:47:07It was something I said

00:47:08that one thing

00:47:09that you carry blessed

00:47:10in the body

00:47:10so they don't get in

00:47:12spirits like that

00:47:13from people who want to hurt you.

00:47:15The Appearance

00:47:16of the bearded man

00:47:17and ragged

00:47:18through that lost village

00:47:19in the plains of Zamora

00:47:21left a mark

00:47:22remembered

00:47:22throughout the region.

00:47:24Nobody can forget it.

00:47:27Was he a sorcerer?

00:47:29A simple healer

00:47:30or a charlatan?

00:47:32A messenger from heaven?

00:47:33as some people think?

00:47:35It is likely

00:47:36that we will never know

00:47:37the true identity

00:47:38of that miraculous beggar

00:47:40but his memory,

00:47:42his legend,

00:47:43its strange reality

00:47:44It's already something indelible.

00:47:46of the face

00:47:46of this land.

00:47:53The case is surprising.

00:47:55And you'll see.

00:47:56when

00:47:56Let's take the step

00:47:58to the second story

00:47:59identical,

00:48:00millimeter-precise,

00:48:02the same character

00:48:02We could almost think

00:48:03in a tracing.

00:48:05This event

00:48:06It opens up a range of possibilities for us

00:48:07of wonderful possibilities

00:48:08for discussion.

00:48:09Let me tell you something.

00:48:10In a few minutes later

00:48:11when we talk

00:48:12of the event

00:48:13or prodigy

00:48:13from Orcasitas

00:48:14as the press said

00:48:15we will have here

00:48:16to some people

00:48:17that almost

00:48:18we could say it

00:48:19They lived it up close.

00:48:20They remember perfectly

00:48:21the event

00:48:21And I think we're going

00:48:22to learn with them.

00:48:24And here

00:48:24Lots of questions, right?

00:48:26Do miracles exist?

00:48:27Are they miracles?

00:48:28Is it suggestion?

00:48:29What is this placebo thing?

00:48:30or heal oneself through one's own mind

00:48:32or belief?

00:48:33And the power of prayer?

00:48:35Anyone asking?

00:48:36or now

00:48:37in any religion,

00:48:38I imagine,

00:48:39by another person

00:48:40Could this be benefiting him?

00:48:42and vice versa.

00:48:43We have heard

00:48:44like in Zamora

00:48:45Many people thought

00:48:47those scapulars

00:48:49they were used for

00:48:50to prevent drowning,

00:48:51the belief

00:48:52in which someone

00:48:52on the contrary

00:48:53It can harm us.

00:48:54Dr. Cabrera,

00:48:55as usual,

00:48:55good night.

00:48:56How are you, Iker?

00:48:57Good night.

00:48:57I know you liked it

00:48:58this story

00:48:58And you'll see what's coming next.

00:48:59I loved it.

00:49:00It's curious, isn't it?

00:49:01Because here it all mixes up

00:49:02religious

00:49:03that some of us share,

00:49:04others do not,

00:49:05with the psychiatric

00:49:06which is faith,

00:49:07pure faith.

00:49:08That is to say,

00:49:08someone who believes in something

00:49:10whether religious or not

00:49:11It has a positive power

00:49:12by himself

00:49:13and things like that

00:49:14in these events

00:49:16They come in millimeters.

00:49:18Doctor,

00:49:18many people

00:49:19immediately

00:49:20And we do it here.

00:49:21so that everyone

00:49:22Think what you want,

00:49:23but we got,

00:49:24We dusted off stories

00:49:25that are worthwhile

00:49:25and that have been forgotten.

00:49:26The case,

00:49:28What is the most

00:49:28Does it catch your attention?

00:49:29Level,

00:49:30Let's start with the medical aspect.

00:49:31Apparently,

00:49:32the recovery,

00:49:33Well,

00:49:33This person was bedridden,

00:49:36I had some symptoms

00:49:37polio

00:49:38and he started walking again.

00:49:40After that individual

00:49:41tell him a specific date.

00:49:43Diagnostic opinion,

00:49:45so in quotation marks.

00:49:45Well,

00:49:46There is polio here.

00:49:47In that Spain

00:49:48There was a lot of polio.

00:49:50It means the leg

00:49:51It is paralyzed

00:49:52because the spinal cord

00:49:53has dead neurons,

00:49:55But not all of them die.

00:49:57I want to remember

00:49:58that the famous Tarzan,

00:49:59Johnny B. Muller,

00:50:00He had polio.

00:50:01And yet,

00:50:02through exercise,

00:50:03he managed to be later

00:50:04an athlete.

00:50:05Therefore,

00:50:05probably,

00:50:06From a medical point of view,

00:50:07part of the spinal cord was present

00:50:09that she wasn't completely dead

00:50:11and that emotional shock

00:50:12with this mysterious character

00:50:14which we will now talk about

00:50:16inspired a special faith

00:50:18that somehow,

00:50:19for me,

00:50:20I am a doctor,

00:50:21Well, that was the point.

00:50:22that I needed

00:50:23this person

00:50:24to get up.

00:50:26Then we need to talk,

00:50:27doctor,

00:50:27about something that worries me too.

00:50:28Many people

00:50:29they may be thinking,

00:50:30Apart from the religious aspect,

00:50:31The mind is capable of healing.

00:50:33Well,

00:50:33greater mystery,

00:50:34The mind is capable of healing.

00:50:35We'll talk about it later.

00:50:36Of course.

00:50:36We'll talk about it later, doctor.

00:50:37We are also accompanied by

00:50:38José Carlos Martín de Laod,

00:50:40good friend of this program,

00:50:41office director

00:50:42of the causes of the saints

00:50:43of Opus Dei in Spain,

00:50:44historian,

00:50:44and that I believe,

00:50:46how he works

00:50:46in these matters,

00:50:48will have shown interest.

00:50:50This case could be a miracle.

00:50:51José Carlos,

00:50:52good night.

00:50:53Good night.

00:50:54Well,

00:50:55use the word miracle

00:50:56in the technical sense

00:50:58of the expression,

00:50:59of what the Church requires

00:51:00for a person

00:51:01be beatified

00:51:02or for a blessed person

00:51:03be canonized,

00:51:04When the word miracle is said,

00:51:06one thing is being said

00:51:08technically

00:51:09of great rigor

00:51:10and of a high standard.

00:51:11Since the times

00:51:12of Benedict XIV,

00:51:14in the 18th century,

00:51:15It is already perfectly stipulated

00:51:17what is it that the Church

00:51:18consider it a miracle

00:51:19so that I can

00:51:21a person to be beatified.

00:51:22And that requires

00:51:22a series of conditions

00:51:23that we can later

00:51:25We'll start breaking it down.

00:51:26There are other things

00:51:28before that word

00:51:29which is called

00:51:30God's providence,

00:51:32God's loving care

00:51:33of his creatures,

00:51:34favors,

00:51:35thank you,

00:51:36gifts,

00:51:37but all that

00:51:38It's like on a stepped level

00:51:40in the face of the word miracle

00:51:42that technically

00:51:43has and requires

00:51:44some conditions

00:51:45very specific.

00:51:47I repeat,

00:51:48each

00:51:48that obtains

00:51:49their own conclusion.

00:51:51It was discussed

00:51:52of collective hallucination,

00:51:53it was discussed

00:51:54that all those people

00:51:55through fervor

00:51:56at that time

00:51:57had an effect

00:51:59of suggestion

00:52:00which caused

00:52:01that miracle,

00:52:02But there are things

00:52:02that miss us

00:52:03and that I at least

00:52:04I had never seen anything like it before.

00:52:05That individual,

00:52:06and as we shall see later

00:52:07in Orcasitas,

00:52:08arrives at a town,

00:52:10click on a house

00:52:11and goes on saying

00:52:11that can cure.

00:52:13It keeps offering

00:52:14that species

00:52:15of salvation.

00:52:17People,

00:52:18upon seeing him

00:52:18with that look

00:52:19so gloomy,

00:52:20They are hidden,

00:52:21They don't want to see him.

00:52:23And Pablo Villarrubia,

00:52:24who was there,

00:52:25in Santovenia de Lesla,

00:52:26Pablo, good evening.

00:52:27Good evening, yes, what?

00:52:28Wonderful story,

00:52:30Whatever it is,

00:52:31the people,

00:52:3230 years have passed,

00:52:33more than 30 years,

00:52:35and keep remembering

00:52:36the story

00:52:36and for many,

00:52:37according to their beliefs,

00:52:38they think it was

00:52:39an intervention

00:52:39from Jesus himself

00:52:40or of a divine entity

00:52:42or whatever

00:52:43who appeared there.

00:52:44People do think so, yes.

00:52:45Yes, look,

00:52:46I am merely an intermediary

00:52:47among those interviewed,

00:52:50the news

00:52:50and the public

00:52:51who is watching us,

00:52:52but we also captured

00:52:53In that sense,

00:52:54that common sense

00:52:56even to create

00:52:57even myths,

00:52:58likely

00:52:58has spread

00:52:59a myth in the place

00:53:00of that story

00:53:02of Christ,

00:53:02having been there.

00:53:03As I also recalled

00:53:05in the Father right now,

00:53:06this perhaps

00:53:06is in our unconscious,

00:53:08these stories

00:53:09They come from very far away,

00:53:09in the sense

00:53:10of charity,

00:53:11from the beggar,

00:53:12the beggar too

00:53:13benefactor,

00:53:14But what shocked me the most,

00:53:15Iker,

00:53:16it was precisely

00:53:16the presence,

00:53:18When you were telling me,

00:53:19besides,

00:53:20that before leaving

00:53:21for this adventure,

00:53:22because it was an adventure

00:53:23to try to locate,

00:53:24then the curious thing

00:53:25It's just that when I get there

00:53:25I find that they are talking to me

00:53:27of a woman,

00:53:28Josefa de Prado,

00:53:29Then I said,

00:53:30Who was this woman?

00:53:31And all the people

00:53:32from that town,

00:53:33be right-wing

00:53:34or left-handed,

00:53:35everyone told me

00:53:35because this woman lived

00:53:36right after

00:53:37of the civil war,

00:53:38all people

00:53:39They loved very much

00:53:40to Josefa de Prado,

00:53:41She was a benefactor,

00:53:42a woman who cared

00:53:43to abandoned children,

00:53:45the children of the dead

00:53:46in the civil war,

00:53:47to the sick,

00:53:49in a way

00:53:49valiant,

00:53:50selfless,

00:53:51Besides, he wasn't earning anything.

00:53:52only what people

00:53:53I brought him

00:53:54and he gave it to her.

00:53:55Then it appears

00:53:56the strange connection

00:53:58among that beggar

00:53:59and Josefa de Prado

00:54:00when they tell us

00:54:01that possibly

00:54:02This man was

00:54:04an envoy,

00:54:05a messenger sent by Josefa de Prado.

00:54:06I mean,

00:54:06people thought today,

00:54:08so that everyone

00:54:08It's not understood,

00:54:09that woman,

00:54:10more or less pious,

00:54:11who prayed for others,

00:54:13had invoked

00:54:14somehow

00:54:14to that strange beggar

00:54:16because there are other elements

00:54:17purely journalistic

00:54:18that interest us.

00:54:19Why can't it be located?

00:54:21The beggar?

00:54:21The news becomes

00:54:23national news

00:54:24and there,

00:54:25clear,

00:54:26the Civil Guard,

00:54:27the people,

00:54:27is interested,

00:54:28especially when

00:54:29that miracle has occurred

00:54:30and it has been proven.

00:54:31Nobody finds out.

00:54:33This is already curious,

00:54:34doctor,

00:54:36the set design

00:54:37of the facts

00:54:37We find it incredible.

00:54:39Someone who has

00:54:39that security

00:54:40in which it will cure,

00:54:40that causes healing

00:54:42and that he cannot be located.

00:54:44Doesn't this catch your attention?

00:54:45Well,

00:54:45There are two things here.

00:54:46which are important to me.

00:54:47The first is that

00:54:48You cannot live without believing.

00:54:49Without believing in anything.

00:54:51Without believing in a brother,

00:54:52without believing in your wife,

00:54:53without believing in life,

00:54:54without believing in a god,

00:54:55or without belief one cannot live.

00:54:56And he who believes,

00:54:57or anyone who says otherwise,

00:54:58He lies.

00:54:59And the second thing is that

00:55:00in the collective

00:55:01the good things

00:55:02by themselves

00:55:03acquire a force

00:55:04that comes out of,

00:55:05It's getting out of hand.

00:55:06That is to say,

00:55:07There is a woman

00:55:07with a reputation for good

00:55:09and that kindness

00:55:10It's like positive energy,

00:55:11It's as if we had

00:55:12a battery charged with energy.

00:55:14Gee,

00:55:14You just said it.

00:55:15The positive feeling

00:55:16from someone,

00:55:17whether through prayer,

00:55:18through prayer

00:55:19or through good feelings,

00:55:21can physically generate

00:55:22an improvement,

00:55:23doctor.

00:55:23But not...

00:55:24You as a scientist.

00:55:25But please,

00:55:25as a doctor,

00:55:26as a scientist,

00:55:26I am also a...

00:55:27I am a forensic doctor,

00:55:28I mean,

00:55:29I am the doctor,

00:55:31let's say,

00:55:31less credulous

00:55:32that may exist,

00:55:33No?

00:55:33After hundreds of autopsies

00:55:35where it seems there is nothing left,

00:55:37Here is a body

00:55:38And that's it.

00:55:39the positive aspects of good,

00:55:41considered the good

00:55:42as a basic thing,

00:55:44That changes people

00:55:45from around.

00:55:46And that's it,

00:55:47if a belief is added,

00:55:49Well,

00:55:49the Catholic Church

00:55:50speaks of communion

00:55:50of the saints

00:55:51which is the basic foundation

00:55:53of good

00:55:55expanded throughout

00:55:56the social mass.

00:55:57I mean,

00:55:57I want to tell you that

00:55:57It's because if you pray

00:55:59in whatever religion you are,

00:56:01the wounds heal

00:56:03faster.

00:56:04But doctor,

00:56:04You can't say that.

00:56:05That's how you could put it.

00:56:05But how can you say it like that?

00:56:07It's because the gentleman

00:56:07who doesn't want to live

00:56:08He is dying.

00:56:09And the man who wants to live

00:56:11destroyed,

00:56:12with a broken heart,

00:56:13lives,

00:56:14because there is a vital energy.

00:56:15The one who is depressed

00:56:16catches a cold

00:56:17and the one who never gets depressed,

00:56:19He never catches a cold.

00:56:21Therefore,

00:56:21there is a biological element,

00:56:23if you like,

00:56:24regardless of religion,

00:56:25pure biological,

00:56:26that from that positivity

00:56:28from seeing life,

00:56:29the wounds heal

00:56:30faster,

00:56:31the bones strengthen

00:56:33faster.

00:56:33This has been proven.

00:56:35There's no need to go to Lourdes.

00:56:35Do you know what's going on, doctor?

00:56:36So be it.

00:56:38A lot of people right now

00:56:39it will be taking

00:56:40hands to head,

00:56:41science,

00:56:41I don't know what,

00:56:42I don't know how many,

00:56:42But the point is,

00:56:43Whether it's true or not, doctor,

00:56:44that one can believe in it.

00:56:46I think it's very interesting

00:56:47give that message

00:56:47and give it now,

00:56:48precisely,

00:56:49In these times we live in,

00:56:50with many people very ill.

00:56:51And there are many people who think that.

00:56:54and it needs to be put into practice.

00:56:56Now,

00:56:56There is another question,

00:56:57on a religious level,

00:56:58No,

00:56:59This is not a saint,

00:57:00He doesn't look like a saint.

00:57:02He looks like a beggar.

00:57:04from someone who is even scary.

00:57:06Would that make a difficult case?

00:57:07at the study level

00:57:09on behalf of the church,

00:57:10José Carlos?

00:57:10No,

00:57:11It doesn't matter at all.

00:57:12Appearance is the least important thing.

00:57:14The point is,

00:57:15for a miracle to happen,

00:57:16First there has to be faith,

00:57:17Because miracles are performed by God,

00:57:19God is the one who grants grace,

00:57:21the one who grants,

00:57:22the one who breaks,

00:57:23we could say,

00:57:24that established order

00:57:25for a higher purpose,

00:57:27intervenes and heals

00:57:28And then life goes on.

00:57:30the laws that He has established

00:57:31They continue in nature.

00:57:33For a miracle to happen,

00:57:34There has to be faith,

00:57:35to ask for a miracle,

00:57:36the precondition

00:57:37It's about having faith in God.

00:57:39But the second faith

00:57:40is the one,

00:57:42once the events had occurred,

00:57:43You accept it as a miracle.

00:57:46Why so important

00:57:47It is faith to ask for it,

00:57:48such as the faith to accept

00:57:49that this fact is a miracle.

00:57:51These people believed faithfully

00:57:52that have been healed

00:57:53in a supernatural way.

00:57:55That's why the key question

00:57:56the thing is,

00:57:57in the face of a clear miracle,

00:57:59as they exist,

00:58:00every year

00:58:01they are presented

00:58:02in the congregation

00:58:02from Alcanza de los Santos

00:58:03and miracles are approved

00:58:05for which

00:58:06a person is beatified,

00:58:07canonized.

00:58:07Given that fact

00:58:09told with all

00:58:10your medical history

00:58:11and all the conclusions,

00:58:12a person can become cold.

00:58:15That is to say,

00:58:15that faith is needed

00:58:16to ask for the miracle

00:58:18And faith is needed.

00:58:18so that it is visible

00:58:19of the facts

00:58:20and of divine intervention

00:58:21through a servant of God,

00:58:23you can say

00:58:23This is a miracle.

00:58:24The power of prayer,

00:58:25Let me ask you one thing, doctor,

00:58:26Because I have a question.

00:58:27in the mind,

00:58:28But first,

00:58:28the power of prayer,

00:58:29José Carlos,

00:58:30of other religions

00:58:32that are not Christian,

00:58:34can cause,

00:58:36I imagine there are too

00:58:37an interesting debate,

00:58:38the same results

00:58:39for someone else.

00:58:41Yeah,

00:58:41The point is that

00:58:42God exists

00:58:43or God does not exist.

00:58:45In that sense,

00:58:46when a person

00:58:46Believe in God,

00:58:47even though it may not have,

00:58:49I could say,

00:58:50the same creed as me,

00:58:52or may not be able to have,

00:58:52We Catholics say

00:58:54that we have the fullness

00:58:55of the revelation,

00:58:56But in any case,

00:58:57The important thing is to head

00:58:58to that God,

00:58:59creator of skies and tender ones.

00:59:00A postscript,

00:59:01Alexis Carrel explains it,

00:59:02We've discussed this before,

00:59:04who was a Nobel Prize winner in medicine

00:59:05through vascular surgery,

00:59:07was the father

00:59:07of vascular surgery,

00:59:08It was the man

00:59:09that taught

00:59:10to the rest of the doctors

00:59:11to sew the glasses,

00:59:13This man,

00:59:13fundamentally agnostic,

00:59:14She went to Lourdes,

00:59:15in a book

00:59:16which has magnificent,

00:59:17which is a trip to Lourdes,

00:59:18Now that's a book!

00:59:19and not what's out there,

00:59:20This man,

00:59:21This man passed

00:59:22of agnosticism

00:59:23to the belief

00:59:25because he clearly demonstrated

00:59:26that miracles existed,

00:59:29But also

00:59:29the prayer,

00:59:30as we have discussed,

00:59:31It is no longer,

00:59:31even without a Catholic perspective,

00:59:34but perspective,

00:59:34As you say,

00:59:35world,

00:59:35Let's say of all religions,

00:59:37yogis in India

00:59:39They alter metabolism

00:59:40with yoga postures,

00:59:41They alter metabolism,

00:59:42Metabolism cannot be altered.

00:59:43I mean,

00:59:43a very clear action

00:59:44of thought

00:59:45on the subject.

00:59:46Collective.

00:59:47Collective.

00:59:48Collective,

00:59:48therefore,

00:59:48good does good

00:59:50collectively.

00:59:52Allow me a turn

00:59:54for which I have planted

00:59:55the possibilities.

00:59:56Opposite,

00:59:57that is to say,

00:59:58there may be a case

00:59:58hysteria in his management

01:00:00that have come together

01:00:01a series of elements,

01:00:02We also need to offer that option,

01:00:04No?

01:00:04The presence of a strange individual,

01:00:06that he be a healer,

01:00:07a sorcerer,

01:00:07a kind of shaman,

01:00:08a madman,

01:00:09who believes he will cure,

01:00:11that disappears,

01:00:12and it's in the impact,

01:00:14the power of his words,

01:00:16non-religious fact,

01:00:18and that someone gets better

01:00:19for his management really.

01:00:21Let's see,

01:00:21Its management exists,

01:00:22apart from religion,

01:00:23his management,

01:00:24how does its management exist,

01:00:25in positive and in negative.

01:00:27That is to say,

01:00:27while the armies

01:00:28who win wars

01:00:29They heal their wounded better,

01:00:31the armies

01:00:32who lose wars

01:00:33The wounded heal worse,

01:00:34and they are being taken care of

01:00:35by the same doctors,

01:00:36and the wounds

01:00:37They heal differently,

01:00:38because?

01:00:38Because morality...

01:00:39Clear,

01:00:40So that's the story.

01:00:41and there may be a man

01:00:41even to cast spells,

01:00:43the evil eye and all that,

01:00:45and death,

01:00:45death from fear,

01:00:47voodoo death,

01:00:48It's death by panic.

01:00:49Here we saw

01:00:50to some people

01:00:51that you interviewed,

01:00:52Pablo,

01:00:53year 2009,

01:00:56wonderful province

01:00:56from Zamora,

01:00:57place in the Castilian countryside,

01:00:59And people believed,

01:01:00They told us so,

01:01:02in power

01:01:03on the contrary,

01:01:04negative.

01:01:05Those scapulars

01:01:05They served to protect

01:01:07the spirits,

01:01:08the evil eye,

01:01:10Curious too.

01:01:11Curious,

01:01:11And why?

01:01:12Because they told me

01:01:13people,

01:01:13that it's not there,

01:01:14But they were talking to me,

01:01:15They didn't want to talk about it,

01:01:16let's say,

01:01:17in front of the cameras,

01:01:17that there were witches there

01:01:19in that town,

01:01:20until very recently,

01:01:21a few years ago.

01:01:22Furthermore,

01:01:22they even thought

01:01:22that this could be a sorcerer.

01:01:24Exactly,

01:01:24hence one

01:01:25of the interviewees

01:01:26commentator

01:01:27a relationship,

01:01:27a curious relationship,

01:01:29among the scapulars

01:01:31that could

01:01:32even stop

01:01:33the evil eye.

01:01:34Actually,

01:01:34that's where we mix in,

01:01:36there is a syncretism

01:01:37religious

01:01:37of ancient religions

01:01:38related to that,

01:01:39with evil,

01:01:40and they were talking to me

01:01:41of animals

01:01:42who were harmed

01:01:44because of the evil eye

01:01:45launched by certain

01:01:46witches

01:01:47who lived there.

01:01:48Pablo,

01:01:48as usual,

01:01:49thanks a lot

01:01:49by,

01:01:50Well,

01:01:50That house is abandoned.

01:01:51TRUE?

01:01:51There's a curious little anecdote

01:01:54And that's because,

01:01:55In the case we are going to see now,

01:01:56Let's go to a neighborhood

01:01:57of a hard life,

01:01:58Let's go to a neighborhood

01:01:59which also,

01:01:59in the year 60,

01:02:00When this happens,

01:02:01It's a neighborhood

01:02:02that is being built

01:02:03practically alone,

01:02:04with the effort

01:02:05and the sweat

01:02:05of many people.

01:02:06It's a time

01:02:08hard

01:02:08that we can now

01:02:09draw parallels,

01:02:10harder,

01:02:10I believe.

01:02:11And that's how a neighborhood was born.

01:02:12where many people live

01:02:13worker.

01:02:13And then something happens,

01:02:14in an environment

01:02:15curious,

01:02:16No?

01:02:16Can you imagine this?

01:02:17in the big city?

01:02:18Well, it happened.

01:02:20And it happened,

01:02:20besides,

01:02:21in the same number of houses,

01:02:22which is already curious,

01:02:22Right, Pablo?

01:02:23And another coincidence,

01:02:24that you will now speak,

01:02:25what results

01:02:26that the requests

01:02:27to cure

01:02:28to the girl

01:02:29Here of Saint Venia,

01:02:30Antonia Liste,

01:02:31and also

01:02:32to the woman

01:02:33from Orcasitas,

01:02:34to the lady of Orcasitas,

01:02:35It turns out that it is

01:02:36the same entity

01:02:37which apparently cures,

01:02:39that of Our Lady of Mount Carmel.

01:02:40There are some requests

01:02:41to Our Lady of Mount Carmel

01:02:42Specifically,

01:02:43No?

01:02:43Exact.

01:02:43Same house,

01:02:44same disease,

01:02:46practically,

01:02:46in this case

01:02:47It seems to be something

01:02:47column

01:02:48which also affects,

01:02:49oh well,

01:02:50identical symptoms.

01:02:51Well, then,

01:02:52Pablo, as always,

01:02:53thanks a lot,

01:02:54I think it's a case

01:02:55marvelous,

01:02:56whatever it is.

01:02:56And great satisfaction

01:02:57to be able to do that report

01:02:58and we really enjoyed it.

01:02:59and rescue this,

01:03:01rescue this

01:03:01because we need to listen

01:03:02to the people of the countryside,

01:03:03We said it before,

01:03:04and put it there.

01:03:05Their stories are important.

01:03:06And besides, nobody can delete them anymore.

01:03:08Thank you, Pablo.

01:03:09as usual.

01:03:09Thank you, please.

01:03:10Well, then,

01:03:10If you agree,

01:03:11We're going to have two testimonies,

01:03:12Now that they're going to see them,

01:03:13from that case in Orcasitas,

01:03:15we could travel

01:03:16from one cover to the next,

01:03:18from a journalistic story

01:03:19to another,

01:03:20And they told us,

01:03:21the press told us,

01:03:23We talked about it back then,

01:03:24TRUE?,

01:03:24simply in the newspaper archives,

01:03:26and we always try

01:03:27go a little further.

01:03:28A woman,

01:03:30Dolores Delgado,

01:03:30that gets off

01:03:31of a vehicle

01:03:32to go to the newsroom,

01:03:33in this case,

01:03:33of the case,

01:03:34but ABC,

01:03:35La Vanguardia,

01:03:35all newspapers

01:03:36They were talking about it.

01:03:38What's so important about it?

01:03:39Well,

01:03:39that this woman is

01:03:40practically invalid,

01:03:41He couldn't move,

01:03:42And this happened

01:03:43after another visit

01:03:44of a disturbing beggar.

01:03:46Beggar or what?

01:03:47Well,

01:03:47We're listening now

01:03:49these testimonies

01:03:49and we will have here

01:03:50two people

01:03:51What are they going to tell us?

01:03:52many things.

01:03:53Let's go.

01:03:54We were playing

01:03:55there at the door

01:03:55of the house,

01:03:57on the same street,

01:03:59well,

01:04:00two or three kids

01:04:01We talked there,

01:04:02neighbors and others,

01:04:04when we saw them arrive

01:04:05to a person

01:04:08who arrived at the door

01:04:09of this house,

01:04:10who was number one

01:04:11on Maria Teresa Street,

01:04:14and nothing,

01:04:15well,

01:04:15the person entered,

01:04:17he went inside,

01:04:18and we

01:04:19We didn't think much of it,

01:04:21and we keep playing

01:04:21and so on,

01:04:22and after a while,

01:04:24well,

01:04:24we saw that it came out

01:04:25that person

01:04:28And he left.

01:04:31And as soon as he left,

01:04:33nothing,

01:04:34one minute,

01:04:34two minutes,

01:04:34three minutes,

01:04:36I can't tell you

01:04:37how much,

01:04:38but for a short time,

01:04:39well,

01:04:40The person came out

01:04:40that she was sick

01:04:42saying,

01:04:43miracle,

01:04:44miracle,

01:04:44miracle.

01:04:45So,

01:04:46well,

01:04:47we stayed

01:04:47as,

01:04:48oh well,

01:04:49has happened here,

01:04:49No?

01:04:50I was in the column,

01:04:52because there was,

01:04:55I had worked a lot

01:04:56like a man

01:04:57on the roads

01:04:58making stones

01:04:59and all,

01:05:00and it was damaged

01:05:01the column.

01:05:02We lived it

01:05:03with a living room

01:05:04or with something,

01:05:05because it seemed

01:05:06that was

01:05:07the man

01:05:08with a beard,

01:05:09I think

01:05:10who had a beard

01:05:11also,

01:05:12and long hair.

01:05:13I was asking

01:05:14from site to site

01:05:15to get there

01:05:16wherever I had

01:05:17that arrive

01:05:17to his people

01:05:19or to their site

01:05:20or if it was

01:05:21exiled

01:05:21or whatever.

01:05:24And of course,

01:05:25It was that

01:05:25the first door

01:05:26that there was

01:05:27on that street,

01:05:28well,

01:05:28He asked there.

01:05:32Well,

01:05:33here on the table

01:05:33I have a handful

01:05:34of photographs

01:05:35who have their own history,

01:05:37They have their key

01:05:38that we are going to try

01:05:38unravel.

01:05:39And we are lucky

01:05:41which part

01:05:42from those photos

01:05:42already old

01:05:43counting that

01:05:44alleged prodigy

01:05:45in Orcasitas,

01:05:46They sent them to us

01:05:47to complement

01:05:48this case

01:05:49So interesting,

01:05:50well,

01:05:50the family

01:05:51by Ana María Martín,

01:05:52who was a neighbor

01:05:53of Dolores

01:05:54and she was a neighbor

01:05:55somehow

01:05:56also of the event

01:05:57miraculous,

01:05:58But she was a child

01:05:59then,

01:06:00clear.

01:06:00Ana María,

01:06:01welcome.

01:06:01Good night.

01:06:02Good night.

01:06:03Thank you so much

01:06:03for being here.

01:06:04Thank you.

01:06:05Thank you,

01:06:05because I believe that also

01:06:06you contribute

01:06:06the feeling

01:06:08That's great!

01:06:09This is not a story

01:06:10already forgotten,

01:06:10but there are many people,

01:06:12as we heard earlier,

01:06:13who lived through it.

01:06:14What is your first memory?

01:06:16What can you tell us?

01:06:17that's coming,

01:06:18even though you were very young,

01:06:19from the commotion

01:06:20that had to have

01:06:20in the Orcasitas neighborhood?

01:06:21Well,

01:06:22It was quite

01:06:24the impact it had,

01:06:25people were arriving

01:06:26to take pictures with her,

01:06:28foreigners,

01:06:29We had to close the doors.

01:06:30From the people who came?

01:06:31Yes, yes,

01:06:32take pictures with her.

01:06:34He was there for a long time,

01:06:35a month,

01:06:36two months,

01:06:36people are coming.

01:06:38And in what was

01:06:38what has been sown,

01:06:39more or less,

01:06:40They started taking pictures

01:06:41and we had to close

01:06:42up to the doors

01:06:43of the house

01:06:43because people were going in there

01:06:45and she,

01:06:45so kind

01:06:46with everyone.

01:06:47Well,

01:06:47Furthermore,

01:06:47They're showing us some new photos,

01:06:48Ana María,

01:06:49where groups come

01:06:50of people.

01:06:51Well,

01:06:51These were the neighbors

01:06:52from the neighborhood.

01:06:53And I think you appear

01:06:54here too.

01:06:54Yeah,

01:06:55There I am.

01:06:56Which one are you?

01:06:57Let's see.

01:06:57This is me.

01:06:59This girl who appears here,

01:07:00in the middle of the photo,

01:07:01which you will now see

01:07:01our colleagues.

01:07:03Yes, yes.

01:07:03I mean,

01:07:04that this was a riot

01:07:05much older

01:07:05of which we can imagine.

01:07:07Yes, yes.

01:07:07And she was so smiley.

01:07:09also,

01:07:09Dolores Delgado.

01:07:10She was very open.

01:07:11and she had enormous vitality

01:07:13This woman.

01:07:15Clear,

01:07:15when we saw her,

01:07:16What happened?

01:07:16That began,

01:07:17I not only believed,

01:07:18He started picking up stones

01:07:19from the ground,

01:07:20get up,

01:07:21bend,

01:07:21And that was

01:07:23very religious

01:07:23because they had an image

01:07:25of Our Lady of Mount Carmel

01:07:26quite large

01:07:27which was not common

01:07:28that everyone

01:07:29He had his small pictures.

01:07:31And she had

01:07:32her image of Carmen

01:07:33that the beggar

01:07:34some allusion

01:07:35made the image

01:07:37that one she had.

01:07:39She was

01:07:40in a bed,

01:07:41on a cot,

01:07:42and that beggar

01:07:43apparently also

01:07:43It's a tremendous impact

01:07:45to his presence,

01:07:46He wasn't known there,

01:07:47Nobody had seen it

01:07:48and nobody ever saw him again.

01:07:50No,

01:07:51the doors

01:07:51more or less

01:07:52as they were open

01:07:53always,

01:07:54she,

01:07:54her mother,

01:07:55which was the one they lived with

01:07:55also,

01:07:56She went out to buy something

01:07:57and then the man

01:07:59He was begging,

01:08:00asking,

01:08:01and told him to come in,

01:08:02would grab if he saw

01:08:03some bread,

01:08:04fruit or something,

01:08:05and he,

01:08:06from where I was,

01:08:07must have seen it too

01:08:07the image

01:08:08and I would ask her

01:08:10what was wrong with her

01:08:11And she answered him

01:08:12that was there

01:08:13in bed,

01:08:14who couldn't move,

01:08:15the disease

01:08:15or whatever,

01:08:16and he should have told her

01:08:17something like

01:08:18Don't worry,

01:08:20that the Virgin

01:08:20It will cure you

01:08:21or something like that,

01:08:22And now he's gone.

01:08:23he went away,

01:08:24then she sewed

01:08:25shirts or things

01:08:26in bed

01:08:27for entertainment

01:08:28And I don't know.

01:08:30if it would be

01:08:30to earn something,

01:08:32She dropped her thimble

01:08:33and at that moment

01:08:34It must have been

01:08:35when she noticed

01:08:36that already moved

01:08:37the body

01:08:38and went out into the street,

01:08:39Of course,

01:08:41extremely surprised,

01:08:42crouching down,

01:08:42We saw her pick up the stones,

01:08:44he was throwing stones

01:08:44and that they would look

01:08:45to man,

01:08:46She wanted them to look for

01:08:47to the beggar,

01:08:48clear,

01:08:48to the beggar,

01:08:49They must have found him

01:08:51And I don't remember that anymore.

01:08:53to see it,

01:08:54from what he said

01:08:55my mother,

01:08:55They must have found him

01:08:56and arrived

01:08:57And she was kissing his hands.

01:08:59who had cured him,

01:09:00who had cured him,

01:09:01Of course,

01:09:02I went out with other kids

01:09:03to look for the husband

01:09:04to give her the news

01:09:04who worked nearby

01:09:06and well,

01:09:07she with an expression

01:09:08very,

01:09:08I don't know,

01:09:09very nervous,

01:09:10He kept bending down

01:09:12and get up,

01:09:12bending down and standing up

01:09:13of the reaction.

01:09:14Well, well, well,

01:09:15There are still more elements

01:09:16of those we thought,

01:09:17Oh my God,

01:09:18We will now analyze them,

01:09:19thank you,

01:09:19Really, Ana María,

01:09:20Let's enjoy it more

01:09:21of memories,

01:09:22You take a little step back

01:09:23memory

01:09:24and anything

01:09:24that you remember

01:09:25We're going to put it here

01:09:26because that same scene

01:09:27by Dolores Delgado

01:09:28who managed to contact

01:09:30back with the beggar

01:09:30before retiring

01:09:31It's really worth it now.

01:09:33We also have

01:09:33another friend,

01:09:34Felix Lopez,

01:09:35King,

01:09:36He is the president,

01:09:37He was also president

01:09:38in very specific times

01:09:40from the Orcasitas neighborhood

01:09:42that usually

01:09:43president of the section

01:09:44of neighbors.

01:09:45Usually,

01:09:46Felix,

01:09:46welcome,

01:09:47good night,

01:09:48Thank you for being here.

01:09:50It happens

01:09:51In a place

01:09:51very peculiar too,

01:09:53Orcasitas was not

01:09:53any neighborhood,

01:09:54I was talking about how it was

01:09:55a neighborhood born

01:09:57in the worst conditions

01:09:58with extreme effort,

01:10:00It was a time

01:10:02of flood arrival

01:10:03of people

01:10:03and often

01:10:04the neighborhoods

01:10:05were being built

01:10:05in the middle of the night

01:10:07with the workers

01:10:09working hours

01:10:09more than extraordinary

01:10:11and in a neighborhood

01:10:12very humble.

01:10:12I say this because

01:10:13many people

01:10:13obviously

01:10:14who is not from Madrid

01:10:14He doesn't know the context.

01:10:16where this occurs,

01:10:17No?

01:10:17Well,

01:10:18It was a neighborhood

01:10:19similar to all

01:10:20the outskirts of Madrid.

01:10:21Madrid in the 1960s

01:10:23and still in the 70s

01:10:24because he had a belt

01:10:25of misery

01:10:26where we lived

01:10:2732,734 families

01:10:30in shacks

01:10:30and low houses

01:10:31and low houses.

01:10:32So, well,

01:10:33because we were people

01:10:34originating,

01:10:34in the case of Horcasitas

01:10:35we were proceeding

01:10:36of the areas

01:10:37poorest in Spain,

01:10:38from Extremadura,

01:10:39from Andalusia

01:10:40and from Castilla-La Mancha

01:10:41where the surface

01:10:42from our shacks

01:10:43and low houses

01:10:44It was 24 square meters,

01:10:46where there was no water

01:10:47in our homes,

01:10:47Of course not,

01:10:48nor the sources,

01:10:49There were no lights

01:10:50in the houses.

01:10:51Look,

01:10:51That was a school.

01:10:52from Horcasitas,

01:10:53the school

01:10:53Miss Carmina's

01:10:54who is still alive.

01:10:56Well,

01:10:57That was the situation

01:10:58in which I

01:10:59in miracles

01:11:00I don't think so,

01:11:01somehow

01:11:01I share that opinion

01:11:03Cabrera

01:11:03in the one of sub-management

01:11:04and so on,

01:11:05and in those circumstances,

01:11:06in that situation

01:11:07We had to try

01:11:08believe in something.

01:11:09A few months earlier

01:11:10that this would happen

01:11:11which was in the month of July,

01:11:12in the month of January,

01:11:13a neighbor

01:11:13on that same street

01:11:14gave birth

01:11:15to her second daughter

01:11:16on the train tracks.

01:11:17I was passing by there,

01:11:18The train keeps passing by,

01:11:20These are the ones now

01:11:21air-conditioned trains

01:11:22suburban,

01:11:23but then it was

01:11:24the train that was

01:11:26towards Lisbon,

01:11:26for Extremadura,

01:11:28etc

01:11:29And one night

01:11:29a neighbor

01:11:31appearance,

01:11:31I lived on the same street,

01:11:34She went into labor

01:11:35of her second daughter.

01:11:36And then the husband

01:11:37He went out to look,

01:11:38Taxis couldn't go in there.

01:11:39especially in winter

01:11:40No taxi driver could get in there.

01:11:42There, the people,

01:11:42the one who knew how to pray

01:11:43and believed,

01:11:44I prayed for the children

01:11:45because they weren't born in winter

01:11:47or especially

01:11:48that it wouldn't rain,

01:11:49because when it rained

01:11:49You had to be there for a month

01:11:50because the poor always

01:11:52in all cities

01:11:53They have placed us in the south.

01:11:54And in the south of Madrid

01:11:55expansive clays are present

01:11:57where the mud

01:11:58has been a constant

01:11:59in our lives.

01:12:00Well,

01:12:00Well, this woman

01:12:01while the husband

01:12:01I was heading towards the road

01:12:02from Andalusia

01:12:03one kilometer from there

01:12:03to try to find a taxi,

01:12:05People were walking along the tracks.

01:12:06Why was he walking along the tracks?

01:12:08Because he who lived

01:12:08around there

01:12:09It was the only place

01:12:10where at least

01:12:11You didn't get stuck.

01:12:12The train could come,

01:12:13fall,

01:12:13etc

01:12:14The train was coming

01:12:15and this woman

01:12:16She gave birth on the tracks.

01:12:17Mr. Sotero was coming

01:12:18who has already passed away,

01:12:19who was your neighbor,

01:12:20They were coming from work,

01:12:21to turn the door

01:12:22at night,

01:12:23They went to get a blanket,

01:12:24They went to get some scissors,

01:12:25They cut the umbilical cord

01:12:28And the taxi was no longer needed.

01:12:30When the taxi arrived

01:12:30had given birth

01:12:31this woman

01:12:31on the train tracks.

01:12:33Those were the circumstances

01:12:34those that we lived off of.

01:12:35Happy,

01:12:36Well, it's also that...

01:12:36You just made us

01:12:37a slide

01:12:38which I think couldn't be better.

01:12:40I mean,

01:12:40Everyone has understood,

01:12:42really,

01:12:42and as a chronicler

01:12:43You're priceless.

01:12:44because what exactly was it like?

01:12:46life there.

01:12:47And more.

01:12:47And José Carlos,

01:12:49precisely,

01:12:50in that respect

01:12:51of a very hard life,

01:12:52of humble people,

01:12:54worker,

01:12:54and there were reports

01:12:56that we saw

01:12:57already in the 70s,

01:12:58neighborhood and fear,

01:12:59Well,

01:12:59mud as a constant,

01:13:00We saw it in the reenactment.

01:13:02José Carlos,

01:13:03precisely,

01:13:03that it happens in a place like that,

01:13:05Does it have something that gives

01:13:06a special dimension?

01:13:08I think it's a beautiful case.

01:13:09this one that ends,

01:13:11as that significant

01:13:12of the conditions

01:13:14of the miracle.

01:13:15For a miracle to happen,

01:13:16According to the Church,

01:13:19under the conditions

01:13:19that is needed,

01:13:21first of all,

01:13:21It has to be sudden,

01:13:23It has to be immediate,

01:13:24in second place,

01:13:26It must not have

01:13:27medical explanation,

01:13:29none,

01:13:30then there has to be no

01:13:31relapses,

01:13:32I mean,

01:13:32no relapses,

01:13:33and in that sense

01:13:34There has to be an invocation

01:13:36to a servant of God,

01:13:37in this case,

01:13:37directly to the Virgin,

01:13:38who is the main intercessor

01:13:40that we all have in that sense,

01:13:42It would be one of those interventions.

01:13:43The basic rules.

01:13:44Of those interventions

01:13:45It covers what today

01:13:47we could say

01:13:47which is a miracle

01:13:48and could be presented

01:13:50in the congregation

01:13:50perfectly.

01:14:31one thing,

01:14:32doctor,

01:14:32Dr. San Ramos,

01:14:34traumatologist,

01:14:35that appears in the press,

01:14:36He says he is very surprised

01:14:38due to the sudden improvement,

01:14:40because it had prescribed

01:14:43a treatment

01:14:45streptomycin,

01:14:45hydroacids,

01:14:46vitamins,

01:14:46hepatic plebrates,

01:14:47also absolute immobility,

01:14:48and that absolute immobility,

01:14:49as Ana María told us,

01:14:50it breaks suddenly,

01:14:52medically.

01:14:53What could have happened here?

01:14:54with this ailment

01:14:54which is different,

01:14:55that she had it

01:14:56completely immobilized

01:14:57in a bed?

01:14:57Okay, let's see,

01:14:58This woman had,

01:14:59logically,

01:14:59bone tuberculosis,

01:15:01and so,

01:15:01For those who don't know,

01:15:03everyone thinks

01:15:03in the lung,

01:15:04Tuberculosis affects

01:15:05to all organizations

01:15:06and to the bones in particular.

01:15:08That tuberculosis deformed her.

01:15:09and those bones,

01:15:10I was taking streptomycin

01:15:11because it was the only antibiotic

01:15:12that there was,

01:15:13really,

01:15:14That and penicillin,

01:15:15There was no other,

01:15:16and immobility was necessary

01:15:17because the bone

01:15:18it became very soft

01:15:18And if you moved,

01:15:20it broke

01:15:21and then I had

01:15:21the spinal cord.

01:15:22Therefore,

01:15:23what medicine at that time

01:15:24I was saying it was

01:15:24streptomycin and immobility.

01:15:27What's happening?

01:15:27We would need to know the time.

01:15:28that the woman was wearing

01:15:29with streptomycin,

01:15:30the power of suggestion

01:15:31as has been discussed here

01:15:32and then,

01:15:34Well, time

01:15:34that had already been

01:15:35still

01:15:36because maybe

01:15:37all this event

01:15:39which can be explained

01:15:40by two paths,

01:15:41pure suggestion

01:15:41non-religious

01:15:43and on the way

01:15:44of the special road

01:15:45or transcendent,

01:15:46both explanations

01:15:47They are not mutually exclusive,

01:15:48they could even

01:15:50interact,

01:15:50Well, this woman,

01:15:51When this man arrived,

01:15:53because he was on the road to recovery,

01:15:55It could have been a coincidence,

01:15:56It was on its way.

01:15:56What is striking

01:15:57It's the speed

01:15:59of movement.

01:16:00There are three types of certainty,

01:16:02physical certainty,

01:16:04probabilistic certainty

01:16:05and statistical certainty.

01:16:07In that sense,

01:16:08Statistically speaking

01:16:12There is a cure,

01:16:13that there is a 2% cure rate,

01:16:14That's no longer a miracle.

01:16:16If there is a probability

01:16:17that that person

01:16:18has rebuilt

01:16:19your bones

01:16:20so that he could be cured,

01:16:22It wouldn't be a miracle anymore either.

01:16:23And if there is a treatment

01:16:26that is valid in itself

01:16:27and brings about healing,

01:16:28It's not a miracle either.

01:16:29I mean,

01:16:29It's so that a miracle can happen.

01:16:31It doesn't have,

01:16:32The doctors have to say

01:16:34that there is no explanation.

01:16:35That is to say,

01:16:35who break the laws

01:16:36of nature.

01:16:37If there is an explanation,

01:16:38It's no longer a miracle.

01:16:49That beggar leaves,

01:16:51They couldn't find him anymore.

01:16:52They didn't keep him there.

01:16:54What is known about him?

01:16:55I heard at the time,

01:16:57then they passed

01:16:58I don't know how many years anymore,

01:16:59that they had found

01:17:00a similar character

01:17:02in ambassadors,

01:17:03dead in a haystack

01:17:04or something like that,

01:17:06but it looked like

01:17:08to his silhouette,

01:17:10the characteristics

01:17:11that I had,

01:17:11all that,

01:17:13And that was discussed,

01:17:14but nothing more.

01:17:15The appearance was so strange,

01:17:17they say,

01:17:18that,

01:17:19Tell us a little bit

01:17:19the appearance,

01:17:20very high,

01:17:22It carries a kind

01:17:23of a gabán,

01:17:24But he,

01:17:25Well,

01:17:25because of the image

01:17:26it was left to the people

01:17:27more recorded

01:17:27because of what happened.

01:17:29This is curious,

01:17:30say,

01:17:30because with fame

01:17:31that the event acquires,

01:17:32tourists

01:17:33going to have their picture taken,

01:17:35The logical thing would be

01:17:36have located

01:17:36to that individual,

01:17:37nothing,

01:17:38nothing,

01:17:38nothing.

01:17:39And Dolores?

01:17:40Did we find out anything?

01:17:41Let's see,

01:17:41on the street,

01:17:43Well, my friend Paco Orgaz,

01:17:44that I was talking about these days

01:17:45with the,

01:17:46Well, I was playing

01:17:47with three or four other boys

01:17:48And when Dolores came out,

01:17:49They ran away

01:17:50to find this man

01:17:51that disappeared

01:17:51through the open fields

01:17:53from the neighborhood,

01:17:53because there was a house here,

01:17:54another one over there,

01:17:55He went out through the open fields.

01:17:56The lady,

01:17:57what we do know

01:17:58the thing is,

01:17:59I don't know if he was influenced

01:18:01through the press

01:18:02of the moment,

01:18:03etc,

01:18:03and what used to happen,

01:18:04because when it happened

01:18:05a striking example of that,

01:18:06the regime of the time

01:18:07sought to favor

01:18:09to the people

01:18:09and I don't know if it was

01:18:11through that,

01:18:12But this woman

01:18:13joined a cooperative

01:18:14that Caritas did

01:18:15a couple of kilometers

01:18:17beyond

01:18:17and then he already had

01:18:18your home

01:18:19in decent conditions,

01:18:20something that others

01:18:21we have already reached

01:18:22many years later,

01:18:23about the housing.

01:18:24Relapses,

01:18:25Do you remember?

01:18:26Don't know,

01:18:26I don't know.

01:18:26This lady

01:18:27Yes, I had three children.

01:18:29and then those children

01:18:30They're definitely alive

01:18:31Now, and they could...

01:18:32They are here, yes.

01:18:32Ana María,

01:18:33And her,

01:18:34Do you remember that later?

01:18:35Did it ever get worse again?

01:18:37I,

01:18:38the time I heard

01:18:38to my mother,

01:18:39I ended up having another child

01:18:40And let's go,

01:18:41Nothing more has been heard

01:18:43that he would relapse.

01:18:45It is a sign of healing,

01:18:46sorry,

01:18:46because a tuberculous lesion

01:18:48that affects

01:18:49the spine

01:18:49It almost always prevents it

01:18:51a pregnancy.

01:18:52Therefore,

01:18:52that there has been

01:18:53a pregnancy after that

01:18:54It says a lot medically.

01:18:56that the woman

01:18:57Some recovery was achieved.

01:18:58What is clear

01:18:59It was true

01:19:01because otherwise,

01:19:01in a neighborhood like ours

01:19:02that still

01:19:04We are proud

01:19:05that it's like a village

01:19:06because they still work

01:19:08a series of ties

01:19:09of solidarity,

01:19:10of an important associative network

01:19:12and even more so at that time

01:19:13that we lived practically

01:19:14on the street,

01:19:15that we didn't close the doors,

01:19:16etc,

01:19:17if that hadn't been true

01:19:18I mean, people

01:19:20because he would have reported it

01:19:21or fraud.

01:19:22That is true,

01:19:23that the beggar existed

01:19:25and that the woman

01:19:26He suffered from that

01:19:27and that the woman walked away.

01:19:29Well, some might think

01:19:30which is through faith

01:19:31and others think

01:19:31which is due to suggestion,

01:19:32But that's how it happened.

01:19:33The event unfolded as follows:

01:19:34And that's what interests us.

01:19:35Hey,

01:19:35And how is Ana María now?

01:19:36For example,

01:19:36And Felix too,

01:19:37You stay,

01:19:38because I believe that you

01:19:39You weren't aware of the Zamora case,

01:19:4111 years later,

01:19:41which is identical

01:19:42in appearance,

01:19:43behavior,

01:19:44tall figure,

01:19:44with his overcoat,

01:19:45beard,

01:19:46who speaks to the person,

01:19:47who has a condition

01:19:48more or less similar

01:19:49which prevents him

01:19:50and heals him

01:19:51and disappears.

01:19:52How did you feel about it?

01:19:53the body to one?

01:19:54Well, it does make you think.

01:19:55But of course,

01:19:56you don't know which way to go out.

01:19:57I think it's a case

01:19:58marvelous,

01:19:58Whatever the solution,

01:20:01which has all the ingredients

01:20:02what if this happens

01:20:03in the United States

01:20:04They make a movie

01:20:04about this figure,

01:20:06that appears

01:20:06on several occasions,

01:20:07that many will think

01:20:08And if it were the same individual,

01:20:10We left the option there.

01:20:12that it is suggestion,

01:20:13which is also wonderful,

01:20:15the human mind,

01:20:16intercession

01:20:17with supernatural powers

01:20:19or divine,

01:20:20in the end,

01:20:20I think it's a case

01:20:21so exciting

01:20:21we are very happy

01:20:23of having rescued him

01:20:24and of having had

01:20:25people here

01:20:26who remember it perfectly

01:20:29and that have been

01:20:29our chroniclers

01:20:30of this other miracle,

01:20:32prodigy,

01:20:32in Orcasitas.

01:20:34Orcasitas was positive news,

01:20:36Right, Felix?

01:20:36Throughout Spain

01:20:37because of these events

01:20:38and it has been a key

01:20:39Very interesting,

01:20:40whatever the cure,

01:20:41that happened

01:20:42And we have no doubt about it.

01:20:44Perhaps from now on

01:20:45Let's have more news

01:20:46and who knows,

01:20:47Dr. José Carlos,

01:20:48Felix,

01:20:49Ana María,

01:20:49without further appearances

01:20:50from this same individual.

01:20:52Thanks to all four of you,

01:20:53really,

01:20:53It has been a pleasure

01:20:54to discuss with you

01:20:55and bring this story here.

01:20:56Thank you, really.

01:20:58Let's go now

01:20:58with other images,

01:20:59with other stories

01:21:00that will interest them.

01:21:01Thank you, really.

Cuarto Milenio - 4x34 - Mendigos milagrosos - Parte 1 - HD 720

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