- 20 hours ago
On India First, anchor Gaurav leads a fiery debate on the massive trade disruptions and economic fallout caused by protests in Delhi's Connaught Place during the festival season. Atul Bhargav, President of the New Delhi Traders Association, highlights daily business losses exceeding hundreds of crores. Brijesh Kalappa, Congress national spokesperson and senior advocate, defends the fundamental right to protest under Article 19 alongside Article 21, asserting: 'Protesters are also going likely to be customers... the government wants to stifle all protest. And in that process, they're also killing businesses.' In response, BJP national spokesperson Tuhin Sinha accuses the opposition of pushing an 'obsessive compulsive protesting' and creating a reckless 'protest economy' aimed at browbeating judicial institutions. Former Uttar Pradesh DGP Dr. Vikram Singh criticizes agitators for targeting restricted zones and weaponizing public roads, questioning the credibility and motives behind the escalating demonstrations.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Losses of 2,000 crore in festival season, is that acceptable?
00:05We want a better India, or do we want a bitter India?
00:11What's the ultimate aim of the protesters? What's the end goal?
00:14Let's call a spade a spade on India first, let's debate.
00:17Drijesh Kalappa, Congress Party's national spokesperson, and a very well-respected senior lawyer.
00:23Tuhin Sinha, BJP's national spokesperson, and an author of a book on battling red terror.
00:30Seeking a Naksal Mukt Bharat.
00:32Dr. Vikram Singh is former DGP of Uttar Pradesh in Savan, who's dealt with protests extensively.
00:37But I first want to go to Atul Bhargav, President of the New Delhi Traders Association.
00:42Mr. Bhargav, welcome.
00:45Sir, the sight of the tricolour always fills our heart with great pride.
00:51But when you see people with the tricolour at Knot Place, especially now,
00:56why does the heart of the traders sink?
01:02You see, the question here is, the aim is not only to fly the tricolour,
01:08but when you have a number of people joining Knot Place,
01:12and the number swells more than the expected people,
01:14and what we have seen in the past, when these protests were happening,
01:19turning into violence,
01:20we are scared that the same situation may happen in CP,
01:24which partly did happen this today in the evening.
01:27And that is why
01:28we are very proud of our tricolour,
01:31but not this way, the way
01:33the CJP are wanting to
01:36unfluor it in Knot Place.
01:39Sir, before I bring in Mr. Kalappa,
01:40I just want a little clarification.
01:42When we hear of these losses of 2,000 crore,
01:46this festival season,
01:48how have the traders and the organizations come to this figure?
01:58Are you asking me?
01:59Yes, Mr. Bhargav.
02:00You see, I am basically talking of 100 crores a day,
02:04and which basic compromises of Knot Place,
02:08Janpath, Palikavadar,
02:10and the surrounding areas.
02:12Collectively, we are talking of roughly 100 crores a day.
02:15And if I am talking 2,000 crores,
02:17if you see for the last, since July till now,
02:20this number has swelled up.
02:22Today is the festival time.
02:24We have invested money in the goods,
02:27hoping to get,
02:28instead of 100 crores a day
02:30to 200 to 300 crores a day,
02:32but we are down to 25%.
02:34There are days we have not been able
02:36to make effective sales,
02:37to even cover our rentals,
02:40forget about our salaries
02:41and other taxes and electricity.
02:45Our request is very simple,
02:47to all political parties.
02:49Protesting is the right,
02:50I am not saying,
02:51but take it to the place,
02:53very frankly.
02:54Your protest may be for a better tomorrow,
02:56but you are killing our today's sale.
02:59So,
03:00we have nothing against protest,
03:02but not Connaught Place.
03:03Connaught Place is the commercial centre
03:04for commercial activities,
03:06not for protests at all.
03:07And we have suffered a lot for the last two months.
03:10And it has gone beyond.
03:12In my 50 years of being in Connaught Place,
03:15I have never seen such low sales till date.
03:17Sir, stay with me.
03:20Vrijesh Kalappa,
03:21you are a lawyer par excellence.
03:24Sir, the Supreme Court
03:26in the Amit Sahani
03:28versus Commissioner of Police
03:29in the judgment
03:32on the 7th of October 2020,
03:34made it very clear
03:35that the erstwhile mode
03:37and manner of dissent
03:38against colonial rule
03:40cannot be equated
03:41with a self-ruled democracy.
03:44Public ways and public spaces
03:46cannot be occupied
03:47in such a manner
03:49and that too indefinitely.
03:51Right to assemble peacefully
03:53and protest
03:53against the actions
03:55or inaction of the state
03:56are subject
03:57to reasonable restrictions.
04:00Sir,
04:01are these protests
04:02now
04:04crossing all those limits?
04:06How do you read the situation?
04:09Yaro,
04:09thank you for having me on the show
04:11and it's always a pleasure
04:12to be on your show.
04:13I think the first thing is
04:15that the right to protest
04:17exists under Article 19
04:19and the right to livelihood
04:21is under Article 21
04:22and both of these
04:23are fundamental rights,
04:24right?
04:25But
04:25who is the onus on
04:27to ensure
04:28that those rights,
04:30both of these rights,
04:33are harmoniously
04:34made use of
04:36by the people,
04:37right?
04:38This is the important aspect.
04:39And who is the onus on?
04:41The onus is always
04:42on the government.
04:43Onus can't be on
04:44political parties.
04:45If a political government
04:47decides
04:48that they're going to
04:49close all the DMRC stations,
04:51if they're going to,
04:52you know,
04:52shut down
04:53and bring,
04:54deploy 50,000 policemen
04:57into the field
04:59to ensure that
05:00protesters don't reach.
05:02See,
05:03protesters are also
05:04going to likely
05:04to be customers.
05:05If they're going to save
05:07even Connaught Place,
05:08what will they,
05:09they also need
05:10to eat something,
05:11they also need
05:11to drink something.
05:13None of these people
05:14are carrying bazookas
05:15and machine guns.
05:16They're all coming there
05:17with the intent of protest
05:19and they will also
05:20buy something
05:20to eat
05:21or to drink
05:22or to go home.
05:24So,
05:25this could be
05:26turned positively
05:27if the government
05:29has the intent.
05:30But the point is
05:31that the government
05:32wants to stifle
05:33all protests.
05:34And in that process,
05:35they're also
05:36killing businesses.
05:37So,
05:37this is the whole problem.
05:39Now,
05:39you can't...
05:40Tuhinsenar respond.
05:41Tuhinsenar respond.
05:42Brijes Kalappa
05:43raises a very valid question.
05:45The protesters
05:45also want to eat
05:46and drink.
05:47They will come
05:48protest
05:48and spend money
05:49in Connaught Place.
05:50The government
05:51is not only
05:51stifling protest.
05:53Brijes Kalappa
05:54and the Congress Party
05:54say you're also
05:55stifling business,
05:56sir.
05:57Respond.
06:01Well,
06:02good evening,
06:02Gaurav.
06:03Good evening,
06:03everybody.
06:04I'm not surprised
06:05by the argument
06:05of my friend
06:06from the Congress Party.
06:08You know,
06:08he wants protest economy
06:09to prevail
06:10over the normal economy,
06:12which I'm not surprised
06:13because that's what
06:13Rahul Gandhi
06:14wants the country
06:15to be reduced to.
06:16But what we are,
06:17you know,
06:18witnessing right now
06:19is OCP,
06:21obsessive,
06:22compulsive protesting.
06:24First of all,
06:24these protests,
06:25these,
06:25you know,
06:26infinite protests
06:27carry no rationale
06:28because you have
06:29multiple petitions
06:30being heard
06:31by the Supreme Court.
06:32So the primary objective
06:34of this infinite
06:34protest is to
06:36browbeat the judiciary.
06:37You just read out
06:38from the Supreme Court
06:39judgment of October 2020.
06:41Let me take you back
06:43to another similar
06:44judgment of July 2018.
06:46This is the case,
06:48Majdur Kisan,
06:49Shakti Sangatthan
06:50versus Union of India
06:51where on 23rd July 2018,
06:53what are the key,
06:54you know,
06:55takeaways from that judgment?
06:56No absolute right
06:57to protest
06:58at a venue
06:59of one's choice.
07:00So why should they be
07:01obsessed with
07:02Jantar Mantar?
07:03Number two,
07:04authorities can regulate
07:05the venue size
07:06and manner of protest,
07:07which is what
07:08they are doing.
07:09Number three,
07:10the court specifically
07:11considered whether
07:12protest must be allowed
07:14at Jantar Mantar
07:15even then.
07:16You know,
07:17please understand,
07:18Jantar Mantar,
07:18like, you know,
07:19the trade bodies
07:20have explained to you,
07:21is the hub of business.
07:23And also,
07:24in the festive season,
07:25the entire purpose
07:26of these protests
07:27seem to be unleashed
07:29financial analysis
07:30and by the way,
07:31you know,
07:31I mean,
07:32Oh, that's a grave charge.
07:33The protesters have
07:34met up or forced
07:35into something else.
07:36They want to...
07:38No, no,
07:38absolutely.
07:39And, you know,
07:40my suggestion to them
07:41would be,
07:41since, you know,
07:42the Congress
07:43representative
07:43has made it very clear,
07:45they are looking at
07:46creating a new model
07:47of protest economy.
07:49Please go to Burari.
07:51It's barely 12 kilometers away.
07:53There you can sit
07:54till 2029,
07:55till the next elections,
07:56you know,
07:56have picnic the whole day
07:58and then for the next
07:58five years
07:59because you have
07:59with this kind of
08:00an approach,
08:01with this kind of
08:02a, you know,
08:03denigrating approach,
08:04you have no chance
08:05in 2029.
08:06So, you have to...
08:07I will get Mr. Kalapta
08:09to respond to that
08:09and I want to bring
08:10into this conversation.
08:12Okay,
08:12I want to bring
08:12into this conversation
08:13Dr. Bikram Singh.
08:14Dr. Singh,
08:15the protests we saw
08:17including that march
08:19to Supreme Court,
08:20the BJP says
08:21and you just heard
08:22Mr. Tuheen Sinha
08:23say that it's an attempt
08:24to browbeat the system
08:26or browbeat the judiciary.
08:28The protests that we saw
08:30either towards Supreme Court
08:32or at Akashwani Bhawan,
08:34sir,
08:34is that legitimate?
08:36Whether it's being done
08:37by the leader of opposition
08:38or the principal opposition party
08:40or anybody else,
08:42is that legitimate
08:43in the eyes of the law?
08:46Good evening,
08:47Gaurabji and gentlemen.
08:48This was best avoided.
08:50It is absolutely illegal
08:52in the eyes of law
08:53to march right up
08:55to the Supreme Court.
08:56They have been castigated
08:58by the Chief Justice
09:00of the Supreme Court
09:00to march into a secluded area,
09:04an area that is protected,
09:06that is the Akashwani,
09:07march up to the Prime Minister's residence
09:09and then what have you?
09:10This is absolute
09:12as per the toolkit,
09:14weaponize the roads
09:15and then take over the roads,
09:17then escalate the violence,
09:18then play the victim card.
09:19It is absolutely
09:20as per the doctrine
09:22of the particular toolkit
09:23that we have discussed earlier also.
09:25It is bad in law,
09:26it is absolutely illegitimate
09:28and I wish people
09:29had heard the anguish
09:30of Mr. Bhargav
09:31that he said
09:32that 15 lakh traders
09:33are impacted
09:34and these are just
09:35not the traders alone,
09:36the daily wages,
09:37the laborers
09:38and everybody
09:38and the NRIs,
09:40the tourists
09:40and the families
09:41that they go there
09:42are absolutely mortified
09:43and petrified
09:44by the fact
09:45that the fear psychosis
09:46that develops
09:47as a consequence
09:47of this agitation
09:48and Mr. Tuhin Sinha
09:50has a very pertinent point
09:51when he says
09:52why not the Ramlila ground?
09:54Because the clamor quotient
09:55of the Kanaat place
09:56is not there.
09:57Ramlila ground
09:58will always be
09:58a Ramlila ground,
09:59the poor country
10:00cousin of the Kanaat place
10:01and I will tell you
10:02the fact
10:02the post-demonstration
10:06I mean
10:07the play time
10:08will not be available
10:09at the Ramlila ground
10:10which will be available
10:10at the Kanaat place area
10:12and I will say that
10:13Sir, pertinent point
10:13may I get
10:14Brijes Kalappa
10:15to respond
10:15before I come to Mr. Bhargav
10:17Brijes Kalappa
10:18these protests
10:20are more
10:22real makers
10:23than protesters
10:25their intention
10:26is to create
10:27anarchy
10:28target the security forces
10:30and then
10:31this conversation
10:32around regime change
10:34how do you read that sir?
10:36You know
10:36the government says
10:37regime change
10:38can only happen
10:39through the ballot
10:39what is this conversation
10:41about regime change
10:42and being inspired
10:43by Bangladesh?
10:46It's not the Congress
10:47Party which has said
10:48that it is Mr. Prashant Bhushan
10:49and if the Congress
10:51Party wanted to speak
10:52about a regime change
10:53we would have spoken
10:54about a regime change
10:55so it's not us
10:56who is speaking
10:57about a regime change
10:58but the point is this
10:59that
11:00if you're going
11:02to denigrate
11:02and speak
11:03you know
11:04in such a manner
11:06about the protesters
11:07and say
11:08that they're all
11:09real makers
11:09and they have no business
11:11and so on and so forth
11:12this is the equivalent
11:14of calling the students
11:15and those people
11:16who are genuinely
11:17have some agree
11:18you know
11:19some matter
11:20to complain about
11:21to say that
11:22look
11:23these are all cockroaches
11:24and these are all flies
11:25I think
11:26you've already seen
11:27the effect
11:28of where it has
11:29taken us
11:29right
11:30so I think
11:31when you're making
11:32use of language
11:34to describe
11:35people who have
11:36a genuine
11:37reason to protest
11:38I think
11:39let's be a little
11:40respectable about them
11:41right
11:42let's treat
11:43them also
11:44as equals
11:45you may have
11:46been an officer
11:47and you may have
11:48seen
11:49you know
11:49all kinds of people
11:50you may have
11:51been of a certain age
11:52but
11:53I think
11:54there must be
11:54a certain decency
11:55in discourse
11:56I think
11:57this is
11:58this is
11:59this is what
12:00has really
12:00created this problem
12:01in the first place
12:02this
12:03you know
12:03somebody
12:04Mr. Bhargav
12:05I wanted you to
12:06respond
12:06you know
12:07on the
12:08trade aspect
12:09but Mr. Bhargav
12:10give me 30 seconds
12:11Tuhin Sinha
12:11and Dr. Vikram Singh
12:12both
12:13have their
12:14finger up
12:15they want to respond
12:16Tuhin Sinha
12:17go first
12:18and then Dr. Vikram Singh
12:22I just want to
12:23with all due respect
12:24tell Mr. Kalappa
12:25that I am sorry
12:25I can't respect
12:26these protesters
12:27after what I have seen
12:28in the last three days
12:29you are harboring
12:31fantasies
12:32wicked fantasies
12:33of you know
12:33replicating
12:34Nepal and Bangladesh
12:36style
12:37bloody coup
12:37to you know
12:39dethrone the
12:40current government
12:41and why I am
12:42particularly appalled
12:43is that you know
12:44Prashant Bhushan
12:45had nothing to do
12:46with the Congress Party
12:47the moment his audio
12:48came out
12:49where he is saying
12:49that bloodshed
12:50has become inevitable
12:51Rahul Gandhi
12:52lapsed him up
12:53Neha Bora
12:54had nothing to do
12:54with the Congress Party
12:55the moment it comes
12:56to the fore
12:57that she is a die hard
12:58fan of
12:59you know
13:00Sharjeeel Imam
13:01and Umar Khalid
13:02Rahul Gandhi
13:03lapsed her up
13:04so today
13:04unfortunately
13:05you know
13:06I don't know
13:06how comfortable
13:07you are
13:08with the present
13:08leadership
13:09of Rahul Gandhi
13:10but Rahul Gandhi
13:11has reduced
13:12this Congress Party
13:13to a
13:14BBR club
13:15the Bora
13:16Bhushan
13:17Rathi Club
13:18and this is not
13:19what you know
13:20we expect
13:20a responsible
13:21opposition to be
13:22Sir since you have
13:23made a direct charge
13:24Dr. Kalappa respond
13:25Dr. Vikram
13:26in 30 seconds
13:27I will come to you
13:27yeah I have to assume
13:29that the BJP spokesperson
13:31is a well-wisher
13:32of the Congress Party
13:33and he is giving us
13:34good advice
13:34I think
13:36there is nobody
13:37in his senses
13:38who will believe
13:38this kind of
13:39you know
13:40advice which
13:41the BJP
13:42spokesperson
13:42wants to give
13:43to us
13:45fair enough
13:46Dr. Vikram Singh
13:47you want to respond
13:48that these are not
13:49real makers
13:50they are
13:50genuinely
13:52impacted
13:52and influenced
13:53by what's happening
13:54and that is why
13:55these people have
13:56taken to the streets
13:57some with the
13:57Tiranga
13:58you know
13:59Mr. Kalappa says
14:00why denigrate them
14:02calling them
14:02just real makers
14:05Mr. Kalappa is a
14:06thorough gentleman
14:07and he seems to be
14:08judging others
14:08by his own lofty
14:09standards
14:10the ground reality
14:11is that these people
14:12have no credibility
14:13when I say these
14:14the agitators
14:15have no credibility
14:15left in them
14:16and I would say
14:17strongest exception
14:18to the fact
14:19that the police
14:20have a job at hand
14:20when they're facing
14:21such agitators
14:23I have never seen
14:23such rowdy elements
14:24in my career
14:25of 36 years
14:26and the police
14:27have been extremely
14:28tolerant
14:28and I would say
14:30extremely compassionate
14:31too
14:32had they been
14:33in any other state
14:33things would have been
14:34a different story
14:35altogether
14:35but that for another day
14:36the fact of the matter
14:37is Mr. Kalappa
14:38knows more about
14:39policing than I would
14:40do
14:41and I will tell you
14:42why
14:43he is a very
14:44distinguished lawyer
14:45and then he has
14:45policing in his blood
14:46therefore he can give
14:48a tutorial or two
14:48to all of us
14:49but the credibility
14:50of the agitators
14:51is an all time low
14:52and if you trust them
14:54well you are
14:54actually quoting
14:56the recipe of disaster
14:57as it did happen
14:58in Janatar Mantar 1
14:592 and subsequently
15:00Fair enough