- 11 minutes ago
Experts at the India Today Conclave South warned that drone swarms could become a far greater threat in future warfare. Newspace Research and Technologies CEO Samir Joshi said the scale of drone attacks seen during Operation Sindoor could increase tenfold as adversaries adopt more advanced technologies. DRDO scientist D Seshagiri highlighted rapid advances in UAVs and autonomous underwater vehicles, stressing that drone detection and deterrence would be critical. He said current detection ranges of 80-100 km leave limited reaction time, making airborne platforms increasingly important. Astra Microwave CTO VK Anandan said warfare was moving from ground systems to UAVs and space-based technologies, with space likely to play a central role in future military operations. Experts also called for India to move from “Make in India” to “Invent in India” and “Own in India”, focusing on indigenous intellectual property and critical technologies.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Good morning ladies and gentlemen and after that very inspiring session by the local MP and we're very grateful to
00:06her to have done that and in this beautiful city we are now going to discuss a subject that's very
00:12close to my heart because I grew up in Bangalore and Bangalore was surrounded by all these defense and scientific
00:19institutions so naturally my inclination was to do a lot of my writing on space, on science and technology and
00:26of course that took me across to all the cities
00:29in the south and of course north but we saw this huge concentration of defense and space and science establishments
00:36whether we're coming to Kochi or Trivandrum where the space Israel satellite center is there or if you go to
00:43any of the other places, Bangalore of course is full of all DRDO, you look at Indian Institute of Science,
00:49the space headquarters, go to Chennai, you go to any of the places, the top research institutions as well as
00:55Andhra and Telangana.
00:57So in this particular session we are looking at not just south, we are focusing on that of course but
01:04looking across in terms of self-reliance and Atmanir Bhatta is called and how is the south and of course
01:12India building India's self-reliance in defense and high-tech manufacturing because I just don't want to restrict it to
01:19defense.
01:19And for decades, despite the fact we had some of the best engineers, the best scientists, we imported a lot
01:28of our defense needs, defense equipment and everything else.
01:32But I think that particular equation is changing and if you take a look at the figures, the defense production,
01:40indigenous defense production has touched close to rupees 1.78 lakh crores and most importantly, this year as India Today
01:47reported, we have started exporting our defense equipment and that's totaling 38,000 crores.
01:53So that is something that we can be proud of but let's also be very clear that the real test
02:00is not whether we just design our own technology, do we own the intellectual property, do we control the critical
02:10supply chains
02:18So we are very delighted to discuss this particular subject with three of our distinguished panelists and let me start
02:25with no particular order but Dr. Seshagari, distinguished scientist and director of DRDO's Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory in Kochi,
02:35just around the corner I'm told, and he said, I'm going out to sail tomorrow, I thought, wow, let's do
02:40this.
02:41And he's had, of course, a remarkable journey because he's one of the top scientists involved in airborne early warning
02:48systems, an indigenous Uttam radar of India's newest frontier and of course now looking at sonar, underwater surveillance and anti
02:58-submarine warfare.
02:59Very impressive.
03:00And next to him is Dr. VK Anandan, CTO and senior vice president of ASTRO Microwave Products and CEO of
03:06ASTRO Space Technologies.
03:08And among the things he does is he makes satellites.
03:12I mean, this is a new thing that people do because now the government has opened up the space sector
03:17for not only making satellite components but actually building the satellites and he is into a whole range of defense
03:22satellites apart from other satellites.
03:25I guess he'll talk more of that.
03:27And delighted to welcome back Saveed Joshi to this platform, CEO of Bengaluru-based New Space Research and Technologies, a
03:34former fighter pilot who now represents the frontier of defense.
03:39He does a lot on AI, autonomous systems, UAVs and swarm technologies.
03:44I guess he saw the future.
03:45He gave up being a fighter pilot and is now, if you can't beat him, join him.
03:49And so he makes the most sophisticated drones that we have in this.
03:54And so finally, let's come to the big question that we're looking at is from make in India, can we
04:01invent in India?
04:02And let's start with you, Dr. Sheshagari.
04:03You've been at the forefront, as I said, of radars that have been high quality, real advanced stuff.
04:09And if you look at it, where is India genuinely self-reliant, say, in the technology that you're making?
04:16And where are the critical areas you think we should be pushing for?
04:19Three, four minutes so that we can get everybody and then we'll come back to you.
04:24And first of all, I would like to thank India Today Group for giving us a chance to be here.
04:29I started my journey in DRDO reading your book, The Weapons of Peace, a lovely book, and I was discussing
04:36with you and Madam earlier today.
04:39It's a very inspiring book, and I was working in some other industry, and probably it is one of the
04:46reasons why I have chosen DRDO as a career.
04:48Oh, okay.
04:51Because there are a few books which actually influence us.
04:54One of them, I read this Kunk Works, where I discuss about how the B-2 bomber was made, and
05:01the second one is your book.
05:03It was equally inspiring.
05:05Thank you so much.
05:06Now, coming to where do we stand technically, technologically, I would rather start with the south part, because the conclave
05:17is about the south.
05:19And for me, south means Dravida.
05:22I know all of you would have heard the word Dravida, but it was probably first time used by Shankara,
05:28and Shankara happens to be from this place, hardly a few kilometers from here.
05:32When he said that I'm a Dravidasisu, that means he is, actually the definition of Dravida has changed over a
05:40period of time.
05:41Dravida has nothing to do with a particular region of India.
05:44Actually, it is the region which is covered by the three seas.
05:47Now, it includes Gujarat, Maharashtra, and all the south of India.
05:52So, it's not a small part of this what actually is Dravida, which is a misnomer.
05:57I also wonder why in Janaganmana, he has said Dravida, and also Maratha and Gujarat separately, because Maharashtra and Gujarat
06:06were always a part of Dravida.
06:08And this is a small preamble.
06:11Excellent.
06:12I mean, you've done it better than I could, but coming to the point, yes.
06:16When we were developing AWNC primary radar, at the time, there was also a Falcon radar.
06:23All of you would have also read about how India has developed or India has developed AWC.
06:30And, parallelly, it was also importing an Israeli system called AWACS.
06:35It's also known as Falcon for some reason.
06:39But we were also told that we have to make a second version of AWNC.
06:45And I was thinking that there should be small change in the design, especially the frequency of operation.
06:53So, at the time, VCIS was Sandeep Singhji, and I went and told him, why not change the frequency to
06:59whatever is used by the ELTA, I mean, the industry which made the Falcon.
07:05So, he said, I am putting a company under Andy Tiwari-G.
07:09Then, he was the DCIS, saying that, go and have a look whether we can change the band.
07:16So, when we presented all this, Tiwari-G said, let us not change the band, let us go with the
07:23band, what we have used in AWNC, because AWNC is performing much superior to Falcon.
07:30So, I said, it is nothing to do with the frequency, it is to do with the technology and the
07:34methods that we have used, but I will take it as a, you know, a pat on our back, saying
07:40that our systems are better than the imported systems.
07:43And that's where we stand, because, finally, what is the user saying is the most important, you know, accolade, than
07:51how it is, you know, written here and there, because they are the people who are going to use it.
07:56And coming to why we make better system for us is, no one knows about the environment, what we are
08:04going to operate better than us.
08:07And when I say that, you have Himalayas, where we operate at around a six-kilometer average altitude, and we
08:16also have somewhere near, let us say, Rajasthan, where we operate at very high temperature, I mean, very high temperatures.
08:23And here, of course, we have a lot of ocean where we work on.
08:27So, this sort of diversity, otherwise, is not available at any other part, and therefore, we are, well, the testing
08:33is concerned, we are probably the best in the world.
08:37And when we tested it in Himalayas, obviously, the Israeli radar has failed, because it was never designed to work
08:44on such high altitudes.
08:46And because we know where we can be, you know, better than, and improved upon, we did very well under
08:53these conditions.
08:54And if I am saying that these numbers you can take with a pinch of salt, but in excess of
09:00250 kilometers, which is much more than the range what is it designed for, we picked up the Chinese aircraft.
09:06This is what we can do if we are given the chance to do.
09:11Excellent.
09:12The same thing, I am going to continue.
09:14I'll come back to you.
09:16I just want to bring everybody quickly into the conversation, then we'll get in, and let's bring Dr. Anandan in.
09:20Now, you saw that we could make the most sophisticated radar that he talked about, and even beat the Israelis
09:26on their job.
09:27And very quietly, he mentioned the word Chinese aircraft, but I will not ask him whether this is Operation Sindhuur.
09:32But we'll have a conversation on that as well.
09:35But one of the things we are dependent on, Dr. Anandan, is on a lot of imported semiconductors.
09:41We are now starting to make them, but it will take a little time.
09:44Processors, critical components.
09:47So how indigenous is indigenous in our satellites?
09:53Good morning, and thank you, India, today for inviting me to this session.
09:59So the bottom side, everybody agrees one thing, that a country wants to be advanced.
10:05They should be in the forefront of the technology.
10:08They should have the very good base for that one to claim that we are self-reliant as well as
10:14self-sufficient for the technology.
10:16Otherwise, we are always in the second, even though we can claim we have sufficient, especially in the defense sections,
10:24when we talk about it, whatever we get it.
10:26As rightly asking that one, are we really in all respect of what we talk about it?
10:33Government policies or government directives, regulations are getting enabled into the system for making the very advanced technology.
10:45Earlier, it was in the primary, is the core area of activity of the R&D organization, especially I have
10:52also started my career in the ISRO for a long period, nearly 33 years of service.
10:59Starting from that point, every time we face the issues like how do we bring the technology in our control
11:08and enable the system to, in a complete system,
11:12we are not talking about a small part of the system, and the related part is it comes from the
11:17other partners, mainly it is like just now highlighting about Israel or any other countries,
11:25which makes us highly dependent on the operational scenario or the maintenance and getting into the real control into the
11:35system.
11:36This is especially in the defense segment, it is very vulnerable, and that is the area in which we have
11:41to address it.
11:42Coming to the point of supply chain, this is what I used to talk about very fundamentally because I am
11:48coming to now industry also,
11:50talking about building the satellites or building the defense systems.
11:53One of the important points that semiconductor industries, which is rightly highlighted, where we are having the right control or
12:04availability of the subsystems or the right chips,
12:09basically most of the chips are produced outside the countries, hardly anything we can claim it, which really we need
12:16to make you,
12:17make sure that when the technology of such kind, which is demanding now, to make a complete system for that
12:27kind of like radars or whatever satellites, which we are talking about it,
12:33it's not rightly available.
12:35Or even if you want to do it, get it from the abroad or some things, the embargoes or other
12:41policy decisions of the foreign government,
12:43which makes us more difficult to realize the system.
12:46This is the area in which the country has to enable the basic core area of the chips, which is
12:52a very high-end technology,
12:53which is demanding to implement, which is rarely available in this country, which has to be enabled.
12:59This is one thing which I can tell that one, because how we can, we call it as fully Atmanurbar,
13:04yes, that part is the part.
13:06But when I look from the global business angle, we cannot, we need not do all these system-related submodules,
13:16all these developments across it, but basically we are worried about the IPs.
13:21Earlier, this major area of IP, which is demanding the technologies to implement,
13:27which is the part and parcel of the premier research institutions, and they enable it.
13:32Now this requirement is raising in a large scale, if you want to do it earlier, if you rightly pointed
13:39out,
13:40we are now just, if you are looking 10 years back, our production is around 40,000 crores of the
13:46defense program.
13:46Now it has gone into nearly 1.8 crores, and next year probably it is going to touch it around
13:512.8 lakhs crores.
13:53Sorry, lakhs is missing there, 2.8 lakhs crores.
13:56That is the type of business which we are, or the production we want to enable, and 90% of
14:02the production has to happen in this country.
14:04This is what is demanding, and it cannot be done with the premier institutions, research institutions,
14:10or production agencies, DPUs and PSUs, which is working towards that goal.
14:16So this is the area in which the private sectors are getting insight in a large scale.
14:22Presently, what they are contributing something around, say, 40,000 crores of the job, but, I mean, in the revenue
14:29market area.
14:30But they have to grow into a large scale and pitching insight.
14:34At the same time, we are not looking from only one angle, that one, from the Atmanapur point of view,
14:39and globalization requirement is coming a very fast way.
14:43So we have to be an export-oriented agency also from that.
14:47India-centric export has to happen in the defense segment.
14:51I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I would like to get Samir in.
14:55I think taking off from the point that you particularly made on exports,
14:59of course, Samir, you represent, as I mentioned earlier, a new generation of companies
15:04that are not just manufacturing existing systems in India, but also creating new technologies.
15:10And if you take a look at what you are doing, how far have you reached on that primary question?
15:17Make in India turning into invent in India.
15:20And where have you reached on that thing?
15:24Hi.
15:25Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
15:27I think make in India, invent in India is equal to owning in India.
15:33And that is what I think all my fellow speakers have been talking about.
15:37That is the overall vision of Atmanirbar Bharat.
15:42India has, in the last year, I think the defense production has been worth about 1.8 lakh crores.
15:50And out of which about the private sector, because it's very critical to push that sector,
15:56has contributed, I think, about 24%.
15:58That would be about 47,000 crores.
16:00So, in that 47,000 crores are companies like Astra and NewSpace, my personal company.
16:07And the overall endeavor of the government, as well as the private ecosystem,
16:12is to increase, push this 24% to about a 40% or a 50% and, you know, contribute
16:18to the larger wings.
16:19This is very much possible, especially when we look at deep tech innovation and identify areas
16:29where India, in the new yonder of the next doctrinal shift in warfare towards autonomous systems primarily,
16:38can take charge because this is a huge opportunity for all of us.
16:42I will explain how.
16:44When we look at autonomous systems, I mean, first, just a precursor before that,
16:49we know what is happening in Ukraine and other parts of the world.
16:52There is an epoch.
16:54There is a shift how warfare is transitioning into unmanned systems.
17:00In the next war, which we will face in India, the first contact will be with a robot,
17:05with a robotic entity.
17:07And this can be in all domains.
17:09This can be in space, air, land, or sea, or subsurface.
17:14And this is the critical question which we need to bear in mind.
17:17So, innovation in this field is supercritical unless we, you know, want to take a lot of iteration,
17:24a lot of aspects towards that.
17:26And this is where India has a huge opportunity in working on autonomous systems
17:30and technologies like swarming, collaborative autonomy.
17:35This is the space.
17:36We are not behind the world simply because we don't need or nobody has had 30 years
17:42to develop this particular aspect.
17:44And we see a huge jump in a measure how these technologies are being deployed.
17:52The technologies, they are shifting now to many, you know, cheap as well as mass,
18:00rather from few, expensive, and very exquisite platforms.
18:05And this opportunity kind of demands that companies like us now, if we can focus on a pipeline
18:14which can support legacy platforms of the Air Force, Navy, and the Army,
18:19we can create an impact in the battlefield converting into not only mission effectiveness,
18:27but also the winds that India is looking at.
18:30Operation Sindur, one of the most remembered facet has been the large drones coming from
18:36across the border into India and how our systems, our network systems, was able to kind of counter
18:42that to a great extent.
18:44But this is only a warning for us because the next war, this will increase to a 10x number.
18:49The enemy is getting smarter.
18:51The development to deployment loops are kind of getting very, very advanced.
18:57In the battlefield, the kill chain is collapsing to a level where we used to see ours till about back
19:05in Afghanistan
19:06with the armed predator.
19:07Ours are targeting down to minutes now in Ukraine where huge command control layers, softwares have got down into the
19:16world.
19:16Just for just a small fact, 95% of the targeting in Ukraine is being done through drones, 95%.
19:24And this is the kind of impact, asymmetric impact that drones and unmanned systems are going to lay bare.
19:31This is an area which India is very favorably poised.
19:36There are other issues which we can talk about, how we can crack this little and close this gap.
19:40But I think if we play smart, we will catch up, not only in the field of advanced technologies, deep
19:47tech,
19:47but also make our legacy platforms more reliant, more impactful, and be able to survive better in the drone kill
19:54zone.
19:55Excellent.
19:56I think that, you know, we can segue you into this particular question of looking at autonomous warfare,
20:02which is a pot making and we have seen that in many senses.
20:07Dr. Seshagiri, you know, one of the things you've tried, of course, is to do a lot of the radars,
20:12a lot of the things.
20:13Now, when we look at autonomous underwater vehicles, which probably seabed sensors and AI and things like that,
20:21where are we in terms of this underwater warfare?
20:26Are we, and even more, you'll get autonomous systems coming underwater.
20:30How good are we, and what do we need to do on that front?
20:36Right now, most of the sonars that we have are platform-based.
20:41And therefore, they are pretty limited in the sense of the ranges that they get and the targets they see.
20:49And as was brought out by Joshi, autonomous vehicles are, I understand, during the Ukraine war,
20:57the last four years, there is a seven-generation change in the UAVs that have been used,
21:01the drones that have been used by the country.
21:04Now, coming to underwater vehicles, generally, we talk of them in sort of the noise that they generate.
21:11And I understand that the noise is generally going to go lower and lower.
21:15As of now, they're at about 9,100 dB.
21:18And we are developing systems which are going to be seabed-based so that we can handle such huge,
21:25I mean, the low noise targets to very large ranges to the extent of we are looking at an order
21:35longer ranges,
21:36in the sense that right now you can take it at about tens of kilometers that we can see underwater,
21:40which we want to make over the next five years to the next order.
21:44That means about hundreds of kilometers that we should be able to see.
21:48In any sense that we, because I go back to the radar,
21:51because that's a field where I have been working for 20 years,
21:55in any sensor that we look at, the single most important part of the sensor is how much range we
22:00are going to get.
22:01And therefore, when I say one order longer ranges, actually, it means a lot.
22:06When we developed, I was talking, I mean, we were discussing about the radar for Virupaksha for Su-30,
22:13which is a very ideal platform for drone detection, because the drones generally fly very low.
22:19They are not of more than 100 meters altitude.
22:22And today, the LOS of drones, I'm sorry to move to drones from where you started off.
22:28Deep under them.
22:29Yeah.
22:30But drones are going to play a very critical role.
22:33That's what Joshi has brought out.
22:35And I think the drone detection and deterrence towards that is going to play a very critical role in the
22:41coming days,
22:42as much as underwater also.
22:44And I was saying, as underwater, we are looking for a little something like hundreds of kilometers in the days
22:50to come.
22:50But when it comes to drone, today, we are struggling to get about 8 to 10 kilometers range for their
22:56detection.
22:57And therefore, the reaction time that is available is pretty limited.
23:01And that is where we have to work on how to increase the ranges.
23:05And I think the airborne platforms are going to play a critical role,
23:10though, as we have seen again in the Iran war, the airborne platforms are a little vulnerable,
23:17but we have to find ways to beat this vulnerability in the coming days.
23:21But I think it is feasible.
23:23The same thing holds good for underwater, too,
23:26where we are looking for multistatic and distributed sensing systems.
23:31So that's the area where we are working on.
23:34And most of the cutting edge research across the world is in this area.
23:38One quick word about your Chinese aircraft, fighter aircraft that you all detected.
23:43What was the distance that you were looking at?
23:46It is, you can take with a pinch of salt about 250 plus kilometers.
23:51Actually, the range of a radar is defined, as Joshi Ji knows,
23:56is defined by how much is the RCS of the target.
24:00And what target we are seeing is not the stealth aircraft of Chinese,
24:04but the JF-17.
24:05So the ranges are quite high, what we got.
24:08But we have to see how this stealth is going to, you know, defeat our system
24:12and how we are going to come out of it.
24:15That is an area of resistance that we have to work on.
24:18And I also want to add about Astra microwave a little bit.
24:23Because at one point of time, because, give me a minute.
24:27Yeah, we are running out of time.
24:28And so, I want them to have their words.
24:31Yeah, a minute I will close.
24:32We were developing Uttam radar when there was one critical component
24:37which we were importing from America.
24:40The ITAR kicked in.
24:41We could not get it.
24:43Astra developed the same component within one, two years.
24:47And today the entire radar is completely indigenous thanks to Astra.
24:51Wonderful.
24:52So that brings me straight to you, Dr. Anandran, on this one.
24:54And when you take a successful DRDO or any other technology
25:00and try to, say, manufacture it reliably at scale in some senses,
25:06this whole process of technology transfer, testing, procurement,
25:10assured order, supply chains, are you only able to do that in India?
25:14Because that's the only way you can successfully move forward on the private sector.
25:18Very right questions, which is,
25:20what is resilient and sustainable growth in the,
25:25when the things are getting open for the private industry to react and act on that one
25:30to produce, what is demanding the service sector or in the public domains as a large.
25:37So the quality is one of the important paramount requirement
25:40where that all of them will appreciate.
25:43Probably that is the one of the thrust area in which everybody,
25:46every industry has to concentrate if you want to win the match in terms of its global requirement.
25:54One point I missed from that one, in addition to this one,
25:57we talk about the economy which is in the larger, the defense,
26:00which is the MODE is largely contributing.
26:03At the same time, a growth of the nation is concerned if you want to grow.
26:08It has to emulate inside itself the growth engine.
26:12That's why there's a space segment which is not touched upon.
26:15If you look at the global scenario, the time is running out.
26:19So I will just brief it.
26:21We are expecting a global economy only in the space segment
26:26because space and defense, it's inseparable in most of the operations.
26:30We are just talking about the ground.
26:33Now it's come to UAV or drone and we are going to space.
26:36Even future warfare is most of the controls are going to come from the space segment itself.
26:41So that is what the people are pitching inside.
26:44And that economy is to grow in the global stage is around $1.0 trillion economy is expected
26:51within the five to ten years period.
26:53What we are presently starting in the global side is around $640 billion,
26:59where India's contribution hardly 2 to 4 percent, less than that.
27:03So what we are aiming at, once everybody is growing to that stage,
27:07at least reaching to 10 percent itself is a big jump.
27:11And that jump to accept in the Indian industry and running for that,
27:15how to scale up in the technology front of it, it's a challenge.
27:19We are facing it.
27:20So this is what is happening.
27:22So when we talk about the technology as well as we are doing it,
27:26it's a vulnerable part for the industry to come up to a standard which is demanding
27:31from this kind of high level of technology, adding to that one supply chain requirement,
27:37where it is getting control from outside the country.
27:40We are pitching slowly inside semiconductor industry to build it up.
27:44So this is the, without semiconductor, there is no life tomorrow.
27:48Most of the things are run by semiconductor.
27:50That's what is the core.
27:51So we are pitching inside.
27:53From the industry point of view, rightly pointed out,
27:55Astra is one of the major contributors to defense as well as the space segment.
28:00And it's continued to be there.
28:02And our growth strategy as well as business strategy from that angle is growing to grow very fast.
28:08And Samira, I'm going to give you time.
28:09So don't look at that clock over there.
28:11So there is one of the, another issue that we'd like to deal with,
28:16which is that when you look at traditional defense procurement,
28:20whether it's aircraft, warships, and missiles,
28:23those development cycles run for years.
28:25And we've always seen the complaint that we're never getting these things on time.
28:29When it comes to AI software and autonomous systems that you are doing,
28:33these can change in months, right?
28:35And you said that there's almost the eighth, ninth generation that we're looking at in some of these things.
28:39So can India's procurement system move at the speed at which your technology changes?
28:46What is your suggestions on that front?
28:49Sir, you've opened up Pandora's box.
28:53I think so.
28:55All the companies in India, and especially startups, MSMEs, they have, they run, they run on limited runways.
29:03They don't run on order books.
29:04And if a procurement cycle in awarding a program takes about two years,
29:09by that time, these, this gap kind of, you know, goes in the negative side of things.
29:14So, uh, since 2018 till now, we have seen defense acquisition policy as well as a lot of thrust from
29:25the government,
29:25which is actually trying to address this very, very critical aspect.
29:30Uh, traditional systems have been bought.
29:33Uh, the procurement cycles take three to five years.
29:35We started talking of Rafals back in the 2000s, and, uh, we know that when the first aircraft came, et
29:41cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
29:42It's the same, uh, platform.
29:43But when we take a look at, uh, advanced, uh, computing, uh, softwares, swarming softwares, autonomous, uh, agents,
29:52which can be developed at a very fast scales, uh, taking a look at products in Ukraine,
29:56which have a life cycle of 15 days before they are upgraded to the next one, you know,
30:01because the other side already develops a countermeasure against that.
30:05And we kind of juxtapose this over our own procurement cycle.
30:09I think, uh, there is going to be a mixed bag in how India is going to fight the next
30:15war.
30:16Because our cycles, and even with the best, uh, you know, uh, best thoughts now, even with DAP 2026 coming
30:23in,
30:24we will be able to close, uh, through aspects like, uh, emergency procurement, fast track procurement.
30:29This still takes about a year of acquisition because the industry is still kind of developing.
30:34It is nascent.
30:34It is getting into a fast track mode.
30:362030 is the envisioned timeline.
30:39So, uh, owning a product, it will take you one year.
30:42But the relevant question would be, is that product upgradable?
30:46Is that product going to be, uh, uh, something which is, uh, top notch to fight the current war,
30:53not the war about a year back.
30:55And this is where lies the difference.
30:57And this is where the intellectual property and owning the chain, including the supply chain,
31:03including the design and development in India becomes super, super critical.
31:07And I will quickly, uh, before, so just give me 30 more seconds.
31:11I will try to also address certain issues.
31:13Why this gap is always going to be counterproductive.
31:16Uh, even if let's say somebody had that power to give a thousand crore order,
31:22because that is the significant amount because the capacity has to be created to fight the next war.
31:27Uh, just for the record, Russia launches close to 800 to 1,000 get on drones a night at times
31:34against Ukraine.
31:36Have we ever ordered 1,000 drones in one go ever, right?
31:41Does our procurement cycle permit us to buy 1,000 drones on the go beyond the capital purchase,
31:50which itself takes about two years, that would, that, that would be something very deterministic.
31:55And with our adversaries, especially the Northern adversaries, who's actually powering Russia and the fight between West and the East,
32:04this is going to be very significant.
32:06This is where founders like us are very worried.
32:09Founders like us are more worried because there has, there is no definitive direction on how this capacity creation,
32:16how this industrial base is going to go up.
32:18If founders like us do not get repeat orders, this is not going to happen.
32:24When you get repeat orders, you create a capability, a capacity.
32:27When you get a capacity, you can raise funding.
32:31That is another story.
32:32We'll talk of patients capital some other day.
32:34When you get funding, you can get in development and design mode in pushing these products out.
32:40And when finally you push these products out, you create internal and indigenous IP.
32:47You can get into exports.
32:48You can get into upgrades.
32:50You own the full chain.
32:51And this is where the difference of getting a product after one year and still be relevant for the product
32:57to be able to fight today's war becomes super, super critical.
33:01I think I would like to close at this pace.
33:05If we want to move from make in India to own in India, we need to address this very critical
33:10component sooner than later.
33:12Well, I think let's give them a very, very warm round of applause, all three of our special panelists for
33:18this.
33:19I would have loved to continue this conversation, but we'll do it outside on this.
33:22We have a very, our director general of coast guards is waiting, and that's our next excellent session that day.
33:28Thank you very much.
33:29Ladies and gentlemen, let's give them a very, very warm round of applause for this.
33:32Thank you very much.