00:00Hello and welcome to this special live recording of a Right Roll podcast at Quaglino's.
00:05We're joined by Ingrid Seward, author of the brilliant new book Catherine and Diana,
00:09who's here to share her fascinating insights into two of the world's most famous women.
00:14This is a shortened version of our live recording.
00:16If you'd like to listen to the whole episode, you can do so by signing up to Hello VIP via
00:21the website.
00:23Catherine faced the same things that Diana did with paparazzi and we all know that,
00:28but I want to go into her relationship with William and how she helps him make the decisions,
00:35how good she is to have as a companion to him, the future king.
00:40Well, I think what the great thing was that she and William were very good friends before they became lovers.
00:47And, you know, she was sort of in a way his sounding board.
00:50And during the first, I think it was the first sort of vacation from uni,
00:55he drove to take Catherine out, he drove to her house in Bucklebury and he took her to the local
01:02pub
01:03and they had a long, long chat.
01:04So, oh, actually, this might have been, anyhow, that's what happened.
01:08I can't remember the exact timing, but they were very good friends and she listened to him
01:13and she advised him and she said, look, if you're not happy doing history of art,
01:18you know, do something else.
01:20Do geography or something, which is what he did, I think.
01:23And she was such a good friend.
01:25She also, at the time, had a very handsome boyfriend.
01:28So it was very gradual.
01:30And I think that was what really stuck them together.
01:34And I think she just helped him hugely and, in turn, much later, you know, he was able to help
01:40her.
01:42Emily, you've met Catherine.
01:44You've shadowed her on countless engagements.
01:46What is the real Catherine like?
01:48Who is she really as a person?
01:49Well, I think that's a fascinating question because she is a very reserved person.
01:53I don't think she's someone who would ever have set out to be a public figure.
01:59I don't think it's something that comes naturally to her,
02:01although she's playing a bit of a blinder these days.
02:04And she is somebody who is very, very family-oriented.
02:08You know, she's incredibly close to her parents and her siblings.
02:12And she is continuing that relationship with her own family.
02:16And she's very much of the belief that everything else will fall into place as long as you get that
02:22right.
02:22And I think that's very interesting in the context of the history of our royal family,
02:27in that a lot of the problems that have come to a head have been born from family issues,
02:33it is very much the stuff going on behind the scenes that has put the wider institution at risk.
02:39Would you agree with that, Ingrid?
02:40I would.
02:41And I think that actually Catherine took lessons from Diana.
02:43Diana, and obviously William was the main teacher, but she saw that Diana gave so much of herself to people.
02:53And that was her way of sort of dealing with people she didn't know.
02:56She would say to them, oh, what did you think of that show on television last night?
03:00And what did you think of that?
03:02And she would engage with them.
03:03And then she'd tell them wonderful little anecdotes about William.
03:07That's why we know so much about William.
03:09William used to break everything.
03:11And he put a pair of shoes down the loo.
03:13Now, I don't know how he managed to do that as a little boy.
03:15But he found his father's probably very expensive shoes.
03:18And he put them down the loo.
03:20And he broke things.
03:22And she would delight in telling people about William and later Harry.
03:28And so we knew so much about Diana and her life.
03:33And I think that exposed her too much.
03:37And it wouldn't work now with the internet and everything else.
03:41I mean, Diana would have a, you know, telling everyone about her life would be,
03:45can you imagine the kind of criticism you would get?
03:48So she was in another era.
03:50And certainly, and I think Catherine learnt from that.
03:53Just give enough, but don't give too much.
03:56Because you're too vulnerable that way.
03:59And people are going to strip you bare if you do that.
04:02But Diana found this was her way of engaging with people she didn't know.
04:07And it worked for her.
04:08And it worked at the time.
04:10I think what Catherine brings as well is the kind of, sort of, steadiness.
04:16Do you think, I think basically she's able to sort of see and has learned, I think, from the past.
04:23And is obviously very influenced by William's own experience of that, being that child.
04:27And, you know, facing the banks of photographers.
04:30And having all of those stories told about him.
04:33And that's how they measure the way that they do it with their own children.
04:36But I want to cast forward now, because eventually she will become our queen.
04:42What do you think she is going to bring to the role from her very unique background in this family?
04:49I think it will be more inclusive.
04:52This is what everyone says.
04:53The monarchy has to be more inclusive.
04:55It can't be something that is just, you know, so far away and strange in a way.
05:03They have to be more inclusive.
05:04They have to be like William and Catherine are now.
05:07They get down and they talk to people and they ask them about their problems.
05:10They deflect from themselves and ask people, which is a very good way of people not asking you too many
05:17questions.
05:18They talk to them.
05:19They want to know about your life.
05:21And they're genuinely interested in people.
05:23And I think that sort of making it inclusive.
05:26Do you see what I'm, am I being clear?
05:27Yeah.
05:28Am I explaining?
05:28Absolutely.
05:29Do you think that Catherine will be the linchpin that keeps the royal family together going forwards?
05:35I certainly do because I think she keeps William together and I think, you know, her illness, her cancer absolutely
05:43rocked him.
05:44Well, we know it does because he said it did.
05:47And the thought of losing her was just unbearable.
05:50I mean, he lost his mother.
05:51He didn't want to lose a, you know, anyone, you know, another mother, the mother to his children.
05:55And he would have done anything, anything.
05:57And I think that that has made their togetherness a real cement.
06:05And I think she will just be wonderful.
06:07If you can get through that, I think, you know, her strength is so admirable.
06:13Yeah.
06:13I want to talk about, oh, yeah.
06:15I think it deserves a round of applause for that.
06:18Going back to Carol, which we've spoken about, I love the role that she plays, you know, in the Wales
06:25family.
06:25She is their only living grandmother.
06:28And I've loved this year, one of my favourite royal photos is after the Three Peaks.
06:32They took a family photo and Carol was there and so was Michael.
06:36You know, she is very integral to the Wales family.
06:39What do you think her role will be once her daughter is queen?
06:44Oh, that's very difficult.
06:46I think she will be in the background, but she will be in the foreground, if you see what I
06:51mean.
06:51I think she's a very determined and clever lady.
06:54I really have huge admiration for her.
06:57I think we all do.
06:58And I think she's pushy, but she probably needed to be.
07:01The right amount.
07:03She's pushy.
07:04But I think she will keep in the background and come forward when wanted, rather than pushing herself forward.
07:12And that's really what she's done since Catherine married William, isn't it?
07:16That she's been in the background and come forward.
07:19For instance, when Catherine was ill and they, you know, she took over.
07:24She took over helping with the children and the school and the cooking and, you know, making food for William
07:31and looking after him too.
07:32And I think she's a very strong and determined person.
07:37I mean, Catherine has said several times in some of the engagements how difficult this has been for the family
07:42as well.
07:42You know, her diagnosis.
07:44So I can assume that when she's also talking about her parents.
07:47Because it must be so hard for, you know, parents to see their child go through what she did, obviously.
07:53Now, I want to talk about the two women together, because they both have held this role as Princess of
08:01Wales, but from very different backgrounds, different personalities.
08:06For Catherine, and you've touched on this already, what kind of pressure do you think that brought for her, knowing
08:12that she would eventually inherit that title?
08:15Which, of course, was kind of held in abeyance, wasn't it, for Camilla?
08:17That was something that just wasn't entertained.
08:19She was Princess of Wales, but it doesn't, it's, I don't know what the correct word is, but she, it
08:25was, I suppose, held in abeyance, or she just didn't take the title, quite rightly, so it would not have
08:30worked at all.
08:31No.
08:31I think that, what was the question we did?
08:35Do you think that, for Catherine, that brought a specific kind of pressure?
08:38Because it's, A, one thing to marry the future king, but it's quite another thing to then inherit the title
08:44that his mother so completely owned and is still so closely associated with.
08:50I think Catherine lives very much in the present, because she's had to.
08:55And I think that's, again, how she, you know, got through her illness.
08:59And I don't think she would give it a lot of thought, because even if you think about it, what
09:04can you do?
09:05There's nothing you can do.
09:06You don't know what's going to happen.
09:08Maybe we won't even have a monarchy.
09:10We don't know.
09:11And I think that she just wants to be what she is now, the Princess of Wales.
09:19And I don't know how much she thought about it before, but I guess she, you know, we all thought
09:23it would never happen.
09:24We never thought the queen would die.
09:27We were, you know, we just, you know, I think they live very much in the present.
09:31But I don't think she would have worried too much, because she had William at her side.
09:37Always William is there.
09:39She wasn't on her own like Diana was on her own.
09:42When I say Diana was on her own, obviously Charles was there, but mentally Diana was on her own.
09:47Yeah, very different experience, wasn't it?
09:49Do you think Diana and Catherine would have gotten along?
09:52I mean, did they have, besides the obvious, of course, do you think they had anything in common?
09:56I think they had, they both love fashion.
09:59I think, I do, when I very first met Catherine, it was a polo match or something.
10:04And she said, oh, and she was, you know, polo matches, well, I don't know if you do,
10:09but anyhow, they have all these beautiful clothes for sale in, you know, in sort of the side shows and
10:14things.
10:15And she was really digging into those.
10:17I mean, and she and Diana both loved clothes, and they both look completely stunning in them.
10:23But I think probably their main link would have been children.
10:26Both absolutely have a magic with children.
10:30And I think that's, they would have talked about that.
10:34I mean, I just feel children, clothes, Charles, maybe.
10:38I don't know.
10:40Families, yes.
10:41I think they would have had a lot to talk about.
10:44To catch the rest of the episode, sign up to Hello VIP via the Hello magazine website.
10:49Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.
