- hace 11 minutos
La fiscal general de la Nación, Luz Adriana Camargo Garzón, habló con El Espectador sobre los avances y cuestionamientos a la investigación por el caso de la Unidad Nacional para la Gestión del Riesgo de Desastres (Ungrd), el paradero de Carlos Ramón González, quien era una de las personas más cercanas al expresidente Gustavo Petro. Además, la alta funcionaria negó cualquier relación cercana con el magistrado Vladimir Fernández, exsecretario jurídico de la Presidencia de la República.
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00:22What is your opinion about your research being compared in the public opinion?
00:27of this file with the toga sign?
00:31I'm surprised.
00:35And perhaps what I would have to say is that the criticisms are not widespread,
00:41They are very focused rather, and they have to do with a person being prosecuted.
00:48who was dissatisfied because he had not obtained approval for a principle of opportunity
00:54or a negotiation he was seeking with the research team.
00:59Mrs. Sandra Ortiz.
01:00Yes, that's right, Mrs. Sandra Ortiz.
01:03The issue of the risk management unit case is a widely known one.
01:10that we started from a line of research,
01:13I also think that's important to mention because sometimes it gets minimized.
01:17and over time what is done becomes commonplace,
01:20But we, based on journalistic information about the acquisition
01:25We started reviewing that issue with the 40 tanker trucks, and that issue didn't stay with the 40 tanker trucks.
01:31In fact, the 40 tanker trucks are already part of a process that, at least in what pertains to
01:37The prosecution has already progressed to the point of having final convictions.
01:44and some acceptances of charges and pre-agreements that are pending approval by the judiciary
01:54and which also significantly led to the referral of copies to the Supreme Court of Justice
02:00Regarding the congressmen who appeared to be involved in this part of the negotiation,
02:06who were the president of the Senate and the House.
02:08But if you remember, we're still there; we have three more events investigated in that case.
02:14We continued with the topic of what had happened with the rental of some tank trucks,
02:21which is the Maquisabana event, for which individuals have already been convicted again,
02:27the contractors, the director and deputy director of the risk management unit
02:34And Manrique also became involved in some way there, who at that time was
02:42The director of the civil service, more to address some information that was circulating there,
02:50but he also ends up being investigated and accused.
02:53And finally, I want to mention this, which is that we'll move on to the topic later.
02:56which is much more substantial and has to do with the question of whether they actually existed
03:06illegal agreements for legislative procedures between the government and the Congress of the Republic.
03:13The research team's conclusion after examining the evidence is that this did indeed happen.
03:19And so we arrive at the accusation against the two Ministers of State who are being prosecuted today,
03:27the Minister of the Interior and the Minister of Finance,
03:29and the administrative director of the Presidency of the Republic, of the DAPRE.
03:36Carlos Ramón González.
03:37Carlos Ramón.
03:38Carlos Ramón.
03:39But it's also important to point out one thing, and that is that this leads to an action
03:46from the Prosecutor's Office, from the investigation team, which is the case against 33 congressmen.
03:52In other words, 33 congressmen appear in that scenario; they are even certified copies sent to the Chamber of Instruction.
04:00from the Supreme Court of Justice and there are 20 more certified copies that come out of the collaboration
04:06María Alejandra Benavides, who is the only person in this case with total immunity
04:13through a principle of opportunity due to the importance of the information it provides.
04:19Otherwise, all the negotiations that the Prosecutor's Office has carried out are some principles of opportunity.
04:24combined with pre-agreed sentences, so that our intention is very clear
04:29It is important that such serious acts do not go unpunished.
04:32So, honestly, what I believe is that this is truly a structural investigation
04:39that has not ended.
04:41We just made a decision, which I know you're going to ask me about, which is the decision
04:45to reinforce the special task force working on the case, which was alone under the
04:52address of the prosecutor delegate of the Court of María Cristina Patiño.
04:57She will continue with the leadership, but she will focus on the case at this time.
05:02of those in a hurry, that is, the ministers and the director of the Administrative Department
05:08Carlos Ramón and a team from the Specialized Directorate against Corruption will take
05:14which has to do with all the cases of those not in a hurry, including that of Sandra Ortiz.
05:18In conclusion, the answer is somewhat that these criticisms and these publications
05:26They are due to a prosecutor who was not happy with the process that took place
05:32the prosecution.
05:32That's my interpretation.
05:35Ms. Sandra Ortiz says today that it is difficult to find out what she is saying and
05:46At what procedural stage, because Ortica says she is innocent, but nevertheless
05:51He also mentions that he tried to present some collaboration matrices, seeking a principle
05:56of opportunity that is for people who are not innocent.
06:00How do you understand the two versions of events presented by Ms. Sandra Ortiz, and why are you...
06:06Why are you so determined to criticize her so harshly?
06:10I wouldn't want to go into detail about what I think or don't think about that because of a
06:18The very basic reason is that yesterday they filed a motion to recuse me.
06:23about which I have not commented.
06:25It is a recurring recusal that has to do with whether I should step aside from management
06:36in that case.
06:37Which, by the way, I am not handling.
06:39That case is being handled by a special task force assigned for such duties.
06:47as is generally the case with the handling of all cases of constitutional claims.
06:53I do not handle any cases of constitutional support.
06:55The cases at the prosecutor's office are so, the work at the prosecutor's office is so demanding that I don't
07:01I would still have time to do legal work, to take on a case directly.
07:07I would eventually do it in some very, very special case that warrants it.
07:12I don't think the case of the risk management unit is, in truth.
07:17I think it's an important case, but it's a case that has been very well handled, and I
07:21I would have no reason.
07:23And if I had any reason or any doubt, what I would do is replace the
07:28officials who have managed it, which has not happened.
07:31I don't know what Mrs. Sandra Ortiz's motives are.
07:35What I hope is that the process will defend itself because the fight is not with the
07:44officials, but not with the evidence.
07:47But let me clarify one thing.
07:48Did Ms. Sandra Ortiz seek a plea bargain with the prosecution?
07:51It's right.
07:52Is the principle of opportunity for innocent people?
07:54No.
07:55Okay, that's it.
07:56Enough illustration.
07:58Clearly not.
08:00Let's continue talking about the risk management unit then.
08:02There is a lot of criticism surrounding two characters who apparently haven't been touched yet.
08:07or those charged by the prosecution, who are Mrs. Andrea Ramírez, protagonist of some
08:13the manner of this whole case, and Mr. Jaime Ramírez Cobo.
08:17What can you tell us about this?
08:19What I can tell you is that there is indeed a line of investigation into the two of them.
08:23which is in charge of the DEC, the Specialized Directorate against Corruption.
08:27Indeed, that is a line of investigation that is currently being pursued, because it has passed into control.
08:34of the Specialized Directorate against Corruption, which is leading that directorate and which joins
08:40with another investigation that involves the same people.
08:44The issue is that it's not just a matter of the lines of investigation that we have been bringing to court,
08:53What we were talking about, the case of the Carretanques, the case of Alquiler Maquisabana, the case of the three ministers.
09:00The working group has been working on a case-by-case basis, because simply put, in such a large case...
09:05He can't work all the time; he doesn't have the capacity to do so.
09:09That case is progressing, and to the extent that we are doing this exercise
09:14Instead of strengthening the team and dividing it, the aim is to start working much faster.
09:20In cases of non-immune persons like those, who were left behind because we were focused
09:25in the cases of those with special legal status.
09:26Okay, okay.
09:27And surely if we had done it the other way around, they would have said to us, "Why?"
09:31If there is data on ministers, you don't move forward in that direction, and instead you focus on those without immunity?
09:37So there's always a kind of tension between what's most important and what's urgent.
09:45I think both are true. So we're trying to balance things out there.
09:48in order to move forward. Now I believe that research has progressed at a very appropriate pace.
09:55One that perhaps had not been seen in cases of this size.
10:00We're talking about Carlos Ramón González. What's the status of his case, regarding the eventual
10:10request for your return to Colombia? What can you tell us about the process of
10:15former director of DAPRE?
10:16That is a very complicated issue insofar as it does not depend on us.
10:23We're making progress in the legal process. Carlos Ramón has been charged, that's it, the case is closed.
10:28in court. The extradition request has not even been answered by Nicaragua.
10:38In other words, we haven't had any reason.
10:46Why were there so many problems with Interpol surrounding the Carlos Ramón case?
10:50I don't know, but the truth is what I know I can say.
10:52Yes, it's very strange. It's very strange because the red notice, Interpol, is a mechanism that works
10:59very good and works very well in terms of the speed with which a red notice is published.
11:06And in that particular case, I do have to say that the red notice was not published promptly.
11:12And that delayed and even allowed him to move beyond Nicaragua,
11:24That's an issue that we're not clear on.
11:26We are not certain today that he is really in Nicaragua.
11:32There were these videos that everyone knew about from the party at the embassy,
11:36which is also territory that one can consider.
11:41Yes, I mean, the truth is that it's very frustrating in judicial work.
11:47because he is a person wanted by the Colombian justice system.
11:50So that really shouldn't happen.
11:53He is not a good example for Colombian society.
11:55But shouldn't the man have been arrested there?
11:57Could he have been arrested there?
11:59The Lord...
12:00At that party, I mean?
12:02Was that allowed?
12:04I'm not sure, I think so.
12:07But I hadn't actually asked myself that question.
12:11But what I find truly regrettable is that he was at a party
12:16with people from the Colombian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
12:21In addition to the fact that Interpol was slow to issue the first circular,
12:25Then there was a misunderstanding, if you will.
12:29If you want to say it like that, that they lowered it.
12:32What is your explanation for that situation?
12:34I have no explanation.
12:35Have you asked Interpol for an explanation?
12:38The explanation we were given is that Interpol files are reviewed from time to time...
12:45And so it happens, indeed.
12:48They review at the request of, for example, the defense.
12:51In this case, if I remember correctly, that's how it was.
12:54He filed the defense request because he said it was political persecution.
12:57How can one understand the political persecution of a government official who is in office?
13:02It cannot be understood.
13:03So.
13:04But, well, that's what the defense proposed.
13:08Sure, but what I find interesting is why Interpol...
13:11Because the file...
13:12Exactly.
13:13Clear.
13:14Because Interpol, which had always been working well,
13:16Some people attribute, let's say,
13:19This happened, let's say, to the good relations that Carlos Ramón González may have had,
13:24or as head of the Administrative Department of the Presidency at the time,
13:30or later as the country's intelligence director.
13:33What do you think?
13:34I can't give my opinion on that.
13:36I shouldn't give my opinion on that.
13:38Okay.
13:38I wouldn't want to believe that's the case,
13:42because we work very closely with Interpol
13:45and we have a very good relationship with them.
13:48We do important work on the outside.
13:52The Prosecutor's Office has a series of investigative activities at the level of transnational crime
14:01with many countries, more than 15.
14:05And all this work is done thanks to the collaboration we obtain with Interpol, Europol, Eurojust,
14:13who are key allies of ours in that endeavor.
14:17And that implies relationships of trust.
14:20One sends an arrest warrant, which is a red notice,
14:26Those circulars are confidential, of course.
14:28And that's a global alert for everyone involved with Interpol,
14:33All police authorities, search for a person.
14:36How do these mechanisms work?
14:38Based on the trust that exists between states.
14:42That's how it has to be.
14:43It is therefore very serious to think that this trust is broken by influence or friendships.
14:49And I wouldn't want that.
14:50I have no evidence to say that that was the case.
14:54But our ally failed us this time.
14:56He let us down.
14:57Let's delve into the information recently revealed by Cambio magazine.
15:04I want to ask you a very specific question.
15:05Are you a friend of Dr. Vladimir Fernández?
15:09I am extremely grateful for that question.
15:11I want to tell Dr. Vladimir Fernández that I...
15:14I did not meet him until after I was appointed Attorney General of the Nation.
15:19I never had any contact with him, neither personally nor professionally.
15:23We don't even have the same specialty,
15:26nor are we from the same university,
15:29We haven't had, nor did we ever have, any chance of meeting.
15:34and to get to know each other.
15:36I met him when I arrived as attorney general
15:38and he is a magistrate of the Constitutional Court.
15:40During the time when he was legal secretary to the President,
15:44which, incidentally, is the context of the magazine
15:48the one you mention,
15:50The context states that it is Dr. Vladimir Fernández.
15:54who sat down to make the shortlist,
15:55with Dr. Iván Velázquez,
15:58whom I do indeed know,
16:00And with the President of the Republic it was very important
16:04Because that's when they decide that I'm going to be the chosen one.
16:08I want to remind you that I was not on the shortlist for prosecutor.
16:13I became a candidate for prosecutor many months later
16:16because one of the nominees was chosen.
16:19The first shortlist for prosecutor consists of
16:21Angela Maria Buitrago, Amelia Perez and Dr. Ceron.
16:26And back in September, if I remember correctly,
16:31From that shortlist, they remove Dr. Cerón from the shortlist
16:34and the trio is reconstituted.
16:37So, in other words, I'm not part of the famous sit-in.
16:40in which they defined.
16:41But people also forget.
16:43how my choice was.
16:46How was it?
16:48The trio almost fell apart
16:55because on election day
16:56Dr. Amelia Pérez resigned from the shortlist.
16:59And I also want to remember Dr. Amelia Pérez
17:02resigned from the shortlist
17:03and he went out and crossed Bolívar Square
17:05And he entered the palace, the Nariño house.
17:09Faster than anyone,
17:11without going through the filter that everyone else goes through.
17:13I don't know where he went.
17:15Why am I telling you all this?
17:16Because the truth is, all of this...
17:18This is from Cambio magazine,
17:19It has a context that relates
17:22to a very old article from another magazine
17:24which meant that probably
17:27what was there, which is evil,
17:30It's bribes to choose the prosecutor.
17:33Oh my God.
17:34So, since when?
17:35In other words, this whole framework
17:37from the risk management unit,
17:38which is, in a way, what has been hinted at
17:40And that's why that magistrate appears.
17:43who was close to the President of the Republic
17:45because he was his legal secretary,
17:47That's where this whole story comes in.
17:50But this whole story doesn't add up.
17:51with the way it actually happened
17:53my choice, by God.
17:56I don't know him either.
17:57Nor do I have any connection to the presidency.
17:59I didn't even make it to the first round,
18:01Nor am I the candidate to be elected
18:03by the Supreme Court of Justice,
18:05definitely.
18:06That was perfectly clear.
18:07Absolutely, I had no calling
18:09if she is chosen from that shortlist
18:11And what happens is that when you know
18:14or it's assumed that I'm going to be chosen,
18:16that trio intends to dissolve.
18:21So that's one thing.
18:22But then, if I understand you correctly,
18:25the suggestion you mention
18:27what the magazine does about that
18:29that money supposedly
18:31It was to buy off the prosecutor's office,
18:33How do you receive it?
18:35No, I take it as a real affront.
18:40Furthermore, because that calls into question
18:45the choice made by the Supreme Court of Justice,
18:49the full court of the Supreme Court of Justice.
18:51That's truly daring.
18:53It's daring to say that in the magazine
18:55that the context cannot be forgotten
18:57that was happening in those days,
18:58which was the prosecutor's choice.
19:00Please, where is that leading?
19:03And on what basis is it pointed out
19:04That theory is far-fetched.
19:09But for the sake of argument, one might think
19:12And why that chapter
19:16that the magazine mentions
19:18around some chats
19:19between Mr. Sneijder Pinilla,
19:22Olmedo López and at the same time
19:24Mr. Vladimir Fernández
19:26about an alleged delivery of money?
19:30Did you give him the chats?
19:31Yes, yes, but my question is
19:33Beyond that, my question is
19:36Was that chapter investigated?
19:39Were copies made of that chapter?
19:41Mr. Vladimir?
19:43That is, regarding what was reported by Cambio magazine,
19:47What did the prosecution do?
19:47It is very clear that for Dr. María Cristina Patiño
19:52and for the team handling that case
19:56That did not warrant the comparison of copies.
20:00But also, being that
20:04conduct that should be investigated
20:07by the Commission of Inquiry
20:09and the Chamber's Accusation,
20:11perfectly those who support that thesis
20:12They can go there and do it.
20:14Of course, because it involves certifying copies
20:15for the judicial officer
20:17Yes, it has a binding effect.
20:19I can't be certifying copies
20:21as a researcher, for example,
20:23like the prosecution,
20:24because suddenly there could be a crime.
20:26No, I have to have a conscience
20:28that there is criminally investigable conduct there
20:31And that is consciousness.
20:33that research team does not have.
20:36So, the issue of having to make certified copies
20:38just in case
20:39It is a topic that is not legally valid.
20:45That shouldn't happen.
20:47Just now that you mentioned,
20:48Did you see the chats?
20:49Are you saying there's nothing in those chats?
20:51Well, I don't see what Ver magazine says.
20:53I don't see it.
20:55In all honesty.
20:56There's a beta version left.
20:58Or one would think that it would remain as something to be investigated.
21:01What you're telling us is
21:02Should the Accusation Commission then
21:04review the topic on your own initiative?
21:06No, whoever has that theory should report it.
21:08and accept the consequences of the complaint
21:11because making false accusations
21:12It has criminal consequences.
21:16But my question, beyond time,
21:18That is my question today, September 2026,
21:21Does the Prosecutor's Office still hold the same position?
21:25that there is no merit to investigate?
21:28The person leading the investigation,
21:29who is Dr. Patiño,
21:31He continues in the same position.
21:33She finds no merit in making certified copies.
21:36That's not a decision, either.
21:38that depends on me.
21:39I am not leading that investigation.
21:40It is directed by Dr. Patiño.
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