00:00A new front is opening between Washington and Europe, this time over international justice.
00:05Donald Trump is calling on every country belonging to the International Criminal Court to quit,
00:11accusing the Hague-based tribunal of being anti-American and out of control.
00:16Trump is intensifying his long-running campaign against the world's only permanent court
00:21for prosecuting genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity and aggression.
00:27Washington is also preparing sweeping sanctions aimed at crippling the court and its judges.
00:33At the United Nations, Trump, as usual, did not mince his words.
00:39The United States is equally opposed to the out-of-control institution known as the International Criminal Court.
00:46We will never allow U.S. service members or anyone else to be investigated or given show trials
00:53by an anti-American tribunal with no jurisdiction over us.
00:57They're an evil group of people.
00:58I call on all nations that are members of the ICC to officially resign from this rogue institution immediately.
01:07For the ICC, Trump's threat is existential.
01:11For Europe, the dispute goes to the heart of the international rules-based order.
01:16So, Europe is pushing back.
01:18Here's EU Justice Commissioner Michael McGrath in a statement to Euronews.
01:22The EU is strongly committed to the fight against impunity.
01:27Attacks or threats against the court, elected officials, personnel and those cooperating with the court are not acceptable.
01:36Now, the fundamental question is this.
01:39Can a court designed to prosecute the world's most serious crimes operate independently
01:44when one of the world's most powerful countries is determined to undermine it?
01:49To discuss this, I'm now joined by Chloé Riedel, a French socialist in the European Parliament,
01:54where she sits on the Justice Committee.
01:57Good morning, Chloé, and thanks for coming on the show.
02:00Thank you for inviting me.
02:01So, Trump says the ICC is an out-of-control institution that is going after Americans.
02:08What's your argument?
02:10This is the key word, out-of-control.
02:12Trump hates that.
02:14And what is out-of-control, of his control, he wants to erase it.
02:18So, for one year and a half now, he's been attacking the International Criminal Court,
02:23sanctioning its judges, up to 12 judges, and those attacks are unacceptable, unacceptable.
02:29And I just saw the comments from Commissioner McGrath,
02:33but we've been hearing that for one year now, just press communiques and tweets to condemn the existential threats
02:42that Trump is now waging on ICC.
02:46So, we need to act now.
02:47These threats, I mean, could make it very difficult for the ICC to operate.
02:54What measures can Europe do to prevent that from happening?
02:57European Union, the European Union has the means to protect the court through what we call the blocking statute.
03:04This is a statute that could block the effects of the American sanctions against the court.
03:12Because now, the judges that are sanctioned at the same level as, like, Al-Qaeda terrorists, okay,
03:19just because they wanted to defend international law,
03:23encounter a number of difficulties in their daily lives.
03:27And this also, you know, threatens their work at the court,
03:31but they are determined to pursue their mission.
03:36So, we need to help them by activating this blocking statute.
03:39Ursula von der Leyen has refused to do that.
03:43Even so, we gather the majority in the European Parliament in favor of the activation of this blocking statute.
03:50What message does it send, the whole dispute here, to countries like Russia
03:55when the West is obviously divided over international justice?
04:01Well, I don't know what you call the West anymore,
04:04because I know what is the United States and I know what is Europe.
04:09And I just, you know, regret that Europe doesn't protect a court.
04:15The only international criminal independent permanent court that is, that has, you know,
04:23that is in the European soil in The Hague and doesn't do anything to protect it.
04:30So, we have a responsibility, a historic one, because the court is, you know,
04:35the successor of the Nuremberg Tribunal.
04:38We cannot, I think that today the ICC has become the symbol of a world fighting against imperialism,
04:47fighting for international law.
04:48So, if we are serious about fighting impunity, we need to defend this court.
04:55So, now we are waiting, as a European Parliament, as a majority of members in the European Parliament,
05:01we are waiting for Europe to act.
05:02You alluded to that at the beginning of your answer.
05:05Are we witnessing here a fundamental break between the United States and Europe
05:10over the rules governing the international system?
05:15For sure, because we need to say why Trump sanctioned ICC in the first place.
05:21Because ICC was investigating on Palestine and on Israel-alleged crime in Palestine, in Gaza,
05:29and because ICC was also investigating action from American army in Afghanistan, right?
05:37They stopped this investigation, but they were doing that.
05:39So, the United States cannot handle that.
05:43And so, he decides to attack what he cannot control.
05:47It's his own world.
05:49And we cannot accept this way of behaving.
05:53We built this court 25 years ago for future generations,
05:58because of what happened in the 20th century, you know.
06:02We don't, here in Europe, we didn't forget the lessons of the 20th century.
06:08So, I think that now we need to act more than with just words, you know, but with concrete steps.
06:17Yes, Chloé Riedel, member of the European Parliament from the French sources.
06:21Thank you so much for coming on the show this morning.
