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00:00Tomorrow, joining us right now on the West Her Hotline from the Outstanding Shout Podcast
00:06as well as covering the bills for Syracuse.com, he is Ryan Talbot.
00:11Ryan, welcome back to the show.
00:12Nice to talk to you again.
00:14How's things?
00:16Hey, things are great.
00:16Thanks for having me on.
00:17Yeah, man.
00:18My pleasure.
00:20Let's start with the Chargers because we'll get into the bills and I'll end up talking
00:24about 20 different guys with you and it'll be 5.30.
00:27This segment will be over.
00:29However, I'm a little bit, I hate to do this because I feel like this is such an easy lever
00:35to pull, but I really wish they would have beat the Raiders on Sunday.
00:39The Chargers, I feel like there's a good team in there.
00:42I'm not sure when or if they're going to find it, but man, I feel like we've got the classic
00:50team in a corner coming across the country on Sunday with the Chargers 0-2.
00:54Yeah, no, I don't disagree with that whatsoever.
00:56When you have a team that is desperate the way the Chargers are, they're going to be
01:01throwing the kitchen sink at the bills.
01:03The one thing that the bills have working in their favor, though, is this injury report
01:06that the Chargers are dealing with.
01:08Essentially, their free agent class is pretty much either on the IR or out indefinitely.
01:13They've lost their center, two left guards, their starting tight end and backup tight end,
01:18one of their D tackles.
01:20I mean, it's a mess across the board for them.
01:23And we've seen through these first two games, too, that the offense in Los Angeles just isn't
01:28clicking.
01:29And I think it might just kind of be a personnel fit with what they have versus what Mike McDaniel
01:35is trying to do.
01:36Yeah, I mean, it's easy to look at.
01:38We've talked some about it on our show already this year, how, you know, at their peak, there
01:44was A-Chan and Hill and Waddle.
01:46And I mean, elite level speed.
01:48I mean, those three dudes are house calls waiting to happen from almost anywhere on the
01:53field or really anywhere on the field.
01:56And there's really none of that in this Charger offense, I don't think.
02:00No, not really.
02:01I mean, they like Brennan Thompson a lot, but he's kind of buried on their depth chart.
02:04Quentin Johnson is not known for his speed or separation ability.
02:08Lad McConkie is the one guy that can create separation, but he's dealing with a rib injury
02:13and he's not going to be at 100%.
02:16So Trey Harris, I mean, you look up and down that list.
02:19Like you said, they are missing the speed and the talent that McDaniel had in Miami.
02:25So maybe a get well for the Bills defense, because as well as it's gone here, obviously 2-0,
02:30he can't do better than that.
02:31And the offense is humming and we'll get to that.
02:33But the defense, I think both games, you know, Detroit is elitely talented on that side of
02:39the ball.
02:40So I'm not, you know, I don't want to drub them hard for giving up 31 to the Lions, but
02:46still it's 62 points in two weeks and Houston could not move the ball against Cincinnati and
02:51seem to do, you know, a lot of almost anything they wanted against the Bills.
02:56So I don't know, how much of a concern do you have about the defense at this early stage
03:02of the season, Ryan?
03:04I have some concern, but the one thing that I'll say about the Bills is week one, you just
03:08never know what you're going to get from opposing teams.
03:11You can always look at film from the previous season, but I'm sure Houston came out there
03:15with some looks that the Bills weren't familiar with and vice versa.
03:18And then you have them on a short rest having to play the Lions at home.
03:21So this is a 10 days of rest situation.
03:25A lot of work and prep went into this.
03:27I do want to see a jump in the overall defense.
03:31The good news for the Bills is they finally have some pressure up front in this unit.
03:35I already mentioned the fact that the offensive line for the Chargers is a mess right now.
03:39I think this is going to be another Deion Walker game where he is just an absolute force
03:42in the middle.
03:43Dwayne Carter, to his credit, had a really nice game against Detroit.
03:47So I think you have that on the line.
03:49And then outside linebacker, Greg Rousseau has been unbelievable.
03:52You have Bradley Chubb.
03:53Now this is the game where I need to see the back end of this defense really start coming
03:58together, start playing well.
03:59Christian Benford's been off to a rocky start.
04:01It was a tale of two halves against the Texans.
04:04He had some bad moments against Detroit.
04:06This needs to be his best game of the season.
04:09And then you also want to see it from that safety position.
04:12I know Cole Bishop was at less than 100% and played through it on Thursday night.
04:15You would hope with these extra 10 days, he's going to be closer to
04:19100% and be able to be out there and performing at a high level.
04:21How much of Rousseau's success here early this year do you think is simply because he's
04:28in a different position as opposed to 4-3 defensive end?
04:32He's standing up more or maybe exclusively.
04:36And the angle, I know I saw a clip from the cover one guys yesterday of Rousseau talking
04:42about the angle, the attack angle is just a little different.
04:45And maybe that's working for him.
04:47I mean, I don't know.
04:49I'm not expecting him to get two sacks a week here or anything.
04:52I mean, who would think that?
04:54But I wonder if there's another level to his game.
04:58Because I mostly, my temptation that I'm looking to be fair about is to just go,
05:04well, he's just had a couple of good weeks.
05:06We know who he is and he'll end up with his 8-10 sacks.
05:10But I mean, he's already got four.
05:11How much do you think the position change, as subtle as it may be, is helping Rousseau?
05:17Yeah, I think he's been massive.
05:18I mean, he's also been getting to play off of one side.
05:20He's not having to rotate between playing on both sides of the defensive end position
05:25like he was sometimes in Buffalo, sometimes playing on the left, sometimes playing on
05:28the right.
05:28He's been exclusively in one spot that he said has been his strong point or his better
05:34spot to play in.
05:35You mentioned the angles of attack.
05:37I think that's big on it, too.
05:38And just knowing that his role is to kind of, you know, he's still very good at setting
05:43the edge.
05:44Don't get me wrong, but he's allowed to attack a little bit more in this system and in this
05:47scheme.
05:47And we've always known about the athleticism, the wingspan, everything else.
05:51But I feel like this is truly the first system where all that is unleashed and he's allowed
05:56to use all of that, where it did feel like in, you know, no knock on Sean McDermott or his
06:00defense.
06:01It felt like they wanted him to set the edge, make sure he didn't get beat on the outside,
06:05keep the runs on the inside, and then if he can get after the quarterback as well, great.
06:09But I felt like that kind of limited his ceiling where now we're getting to see what it looks
06:13like.
06:13And you're right, two sacks a week is not realistic, but I certainly think he can reach
06:17double-digit sacks this year.
06:18Yeah, and for all the warts the defense has had, you know, and all the points they've given
06:23up here in these first two weeks, obviously they've made plays, you know, when that line
06:29game got to 10 a couple times, they forced three outs.
06:33It's like they got the, it never got more tense than 10 points, and so in the Houston
06:38game, you know, it took until they were, you know, at their own 20, but, you know, Walker
06:43made a play, actually they were at the nine for that, but Walker made a play, Rousseau
06:46made a play, so it was timely.
06:48On Walker, that's the guy that I feel like I'm more ready to buy stock in as a rising
06:54commodity because last year, like the Bills sort of were very careful with him and, you
07:01know, the back injury in college probably was the reason why, I would surmise, and this
07:07year I just feel like there's, he's been healthy and threw a whole offseason and I know there
07:14was a little bit of a thing right before the opener or at the end of the preseason, whatever
07:18it was, but still, he's been there, and that's, man, that is a dude, the Bills have just not
07:25had that guy in a very long time.
07:27They haven't had impactful defenders on the defensive line anywhere at the edge or in the
07:31interior, but man, I feel like Walker, the teams that go win, I feel like have a dude
07:38that can do stuff that Walker does.
07:40Yeah, absolutely, and that's just it.
07:42We've been saying for how many years now, you've got Josh Allen on the offensive side of
07:46the ball, a guy that can make plays when you need it, but who is that guy on the defensive
07:50side of the ball, and there really wasn't anyone.
07:52It was the sum of the parts in Sean McDermott's system rather than having a star player or
07:57someone you could count on to make that play, and through two weeks, Walker looks like he
08:01can be that guy, and it's not just pressures, but he's already almost, he's already over half
08:06the amount of pressures that he had his first full season last year, so that tells you how
08:11much of a force he's been in that regard, but he's getting his hands up at times when
08:16he's not getting close to the quarterback, and batted passes, I think he had three of
08:21them last week against Detroit, so it's all the little things, and you're seeing it come
08:25together.
08:25A few of the sacks that the Bills have had this season, it's because Walker's been crashing
08:30in the middle of that defense, and then all of a sudden, the quarterback has to try to
08:34escape the pocket, and it's kind of gone toward one side or the other, so he's even factoring
08:39into some of these sacks where maybe his name's not attached to it, but he's doing a little
08:43bit of everything, and it's funny, everyone was clamoring, myself included, that the Bills
08:47should go out and get a true nose tackle for this 3-4, you need this big space eater, someone
08:52that can anchor, there were concerns about his back, his height, can he really play that,
08:56he's shown, I mean, I'd go back as far as the first preseason game, where he was dominant
09:00in that performance too, this is a role that obviously Jim Leonard felt that he could not
09:05only play in, but also thrive in.
09:08Ryan Talbot on the Bills Beat for Syracuse.com, also the co-host of the Shout podcast with
09:14Matt Perino on the West Her Hotline here on WGR.
09:18So, the back end, you know, Benford, I feel like I want to trust we'll stabilize.
09:26Number two corner, we've seen some of a rotation, mostly Hairston, some Igbenosan.
09:32I don't know, where are you at there? Because I came into the season maybe thinking Igbenosan
09:39is their pick, Hairston wasn't, we'll see what happens there, it felt like the door was
09:44open. The fact that it was a rotation in week one tells you that maybe the Bills were at
09:49least curious about it. How do you feel about corner two at this point?
09:54It's still a mystery, unfortunately. We really don't know what we have there, and the one thing
09:58I'll say, though, is kudos to the Bills for starting to roll some of these players out
10:02and play a little bit more rotations right out of the gate. How many times do we see
10:06teams not do that? And then when an injury occurs, you're throwing someone out there cold
10:10that hasn't played at all throughout the season, and usually they get picked on or exposed early
10:15on in the year. So, see how Igbenosan fits in this defense and how he performs when called
10:20upon. But lean on your second-year player in Hairston. I agree with you on Benford. I'm
10:26expecting him to anchor down. I felt like the first five or six games last year, he
10:29had a lot of up and down play, and then he kind of turned it on and was looking like
10:33the
10:33player that we've come to expect at cornerback one. You know, cornerback two, I went back
10:37and I watched the Texans game, and I thought Hairston held up better than I expected when
10:42I was watching it live. They weren't really targeting him much. I have my concerns about
10:47Hairston, though. All throughout the summer, when you put him up against a physical receiver,
10:53he struggled to bring the player down. You could see them winning in those matches. Even
10:58at the joint practice, Denzel Boston was having a ton of success in that matchup. So, I need
11:03to see that in the regular season against a physical receiver. Can you lock them up? Can
11:08you play them? And can you bring them down when you do give up those receptions? IGB certainly
11:13fits a little bit better in terms of what I think the Bills are looking for from that size
11:18perspective, what they want their cornerbacks to be able to do. But at the same time, Hairston
11:22does have the footwork, the speed that you would love, ideally, in a man defense.
11:26Flipping over to the offensive side of the ball, I mean, that's where, of course, all
11:29the action has been. Players have been talking on our airwaves here, Ryan, about Deion Dawkins
11:37and Connor McGovern, to name two, about the difference, the temperament of the entire team
11:43now being led by an offensive-minded head coach. And I tell you, I thought when the move was
11:48made in the winter and on through the spring and summer, sort of felt like that's just going
11:53to be a thing that fans are probably going to lean on, whether it's true or not. I did
11:58not expect to hear the players talking about how noticeable the difference is. Now, you
12:05know, to be fair, we are talking to offensive players in these situations. It's Deion Dawkins
12:09and Connor McGovern. Josh Allen said similar things to the CBS broadcast crew before the
12:14opener, that he's excited about, you know, Brady with the, you know, with the handcuffs
12:19off, so to speak. Those aren't quotes, but you know what I'm saying. Are you, were you
12:23expecting that? And are you at all surprised to hear the players talking about how, how different
12:30it feels?
12:31A little bit surprised about how vocal they've been, for sure. And I thought that this was
12:36going to be an offense that aired it out more than what we've seen the last few years.
12:39I know that Joe Brady has been the play caller all along, but I do feel like there is a
12:45directive from Sean McDermott and be a little bit more balanced. We want to play, you know,
12:49time control. We don't want to have to throw this defense at, which at that time was an
12:53aging defense. A lot of older pieces out there too long, they'll get gassed. So I think he
12:59had kind of a message from up above saying, here's what I want this game plan to look like.
13:04And I think any head coach would do that. But now that it's Joe Brady show, they're going
13:08for the jugular and they're going forward early. I think that the Detroit game is a good indicator
13:13of that and kudos to Detroit for even making that a game. But the bills go out and they
13:17score touchdowns on the first four drives and they're aggressive. And you see how much they're
13:22just trying to put up points and pour points on and pretty much say, try to keep up with
13:26us if you can. Now a team like Detroit has all the weapons in the world to do that. But
13:31if the bills can get out to these hot starts in these next few weeks, we've talked about
13:34the Chargers and their struggles. New England's going to be without AJ Brown. The Rams looked
13:40a lot better last night versus week one, but there's going to be these opportunities down
13:45the road where the bills don't play some of these teams that have explosive wide receivers
13:49that can go score for score. And I feel like you're going to be able to make these other
13:53teams one dimensional, which will then lean into helping Jim Leonard in this defense.
13:57Yeah. Get out to a 21, nothing lead and you never catch all the way up. I already mentioned
14:01like it got, you know, to their credit, got it to 10 a couple of different times, but
14:05just, you know, that was it. That, that was as far as it got. Um, there's a lot of familiarity
14:11on that side of the ball. Of course, everyone is, you know, everyone's back. There's a new
14:17starter at left guard. Uh, but there is the impact of DJ Moore and we'll see what we learn
14:22about him tomorrow for Sunday. Um, seems at least possible at this point that he could miss
14:27the game. Um, and you know, that impact we'll have to wait and see, I guess, but also Dalton
14:33Kincaid, as much as he's been here, it's year four for him. I feel like this is a player that
14:39we have not seen. I mean, he's playing 70% of the snaps, which is up almost 30% from
14:45last
14:45year and the year before. And those are two very impactful players at the skill positions
14:52that should really change your passing offense. Yeah. 100% starting with DJ Moore, you know,
14:58you saw the effects of that in week one and how they're, they were able to utilize Cole
15:03Shakira downfield a little bit more, and they were able to target Dolan Kincaid. When you
15:08have a true number one, I feel like that does help with the everyone eats mentality because
15:12it's a lot easier for your, you know, B plus players to be able to get open and create
15:18matches where you can win where in the past few years, the bills haven't had that difference
15:24maker at wide receiver one. And I think it's been a little bit easier for opposing teams
15:28to game plan against Buffalo. Dolan Kincaid, the big thing for him is just all about health.
15:32This is the first year he's been completely healthy all throughout the summer. He bulked
15:36up, he added a lot of muscle to his frame, upper body, lower body, and that's allowing
15:41him to stay on the field for more snaps. You, you go from about 30% to like you said,
15:4670% or so. And when he's out there on the run place, he's still not necessarily getting
15:51in there and making these big key blocks. He's on the outside sometimes, but he's holding
15:55up a lot better than he ever has before. And it does remind me a little bit of Dawson
16:00Knox and his career trajectory with the blocking. Knox was not known as a blocker coming out
16:04of Ole Miss. It took a few years for him to get it. And then he could stay on the
16:08field.
16:08And now you've upgraded from the pass catcher in Kincaid and now he's bulked up and he's able
16:13to be out there more. The predictability isn't there as much anymore for opposing teams.
16:18When he was out there in the past, oh, the Bills are going to be throwing the ball.
16:21You had that feeling. Now, at least it's not as sure of a thing because you can have him
16:27out there more and then he can exploit so many different mismatches with his ability
16:30to get downfield.
16:32Yeah. I mean, when they go to those three tight ends, that's right. He's on the field.
16:36I think, man, I think Ryan Paganetti had, had the breakdown and it was stark. It was like
16:42the percentage was in the nineties. I feel like it's a throw Kincaid's on the field. And I mean,
16:47in the NFL, I'm sure every team they played was aware of that. So if they can mix in some
16:54running
16:54plays with Kincaid out there, I think it's only going to make this whole thing better. Heck,
16:59we even saw them use four tight ends at one time in the game against Detroit. So who knows?
17:04They're, they're dressing for, and, um, you've seen Knox in the backfield. I think a lot of us
17:08thought Hawes would be the backfield guy, but Knox was taking, you know, quite a few snaps back there
17:14as well. These first two games. So they've really got like a mix and match thing going there. And I
17:19want to give the bills a lot of credit for being sort of on the front end. Like when you
17:23see the
17:23Rams, like McVay gets all this credit for being the genius that he is. And I'm not throwing stones.
17:27I'm just saying like you're, you're in a camp with them as far as how you're using personnel and
17:34three tight ends. I think that's, that's where you want to be leaning. And it's really the bills
17:39and the Rams are the only two teams that are up near 40, 39, 38% of 13 personnel. And
17:44the rest of
17:45the league is not even above 20, I think. So, um, I think it's to their credit that they've sort
17:51of
17:51spun in that direction because really if Kincaid is healthy, that is, I would want them to use 13,
17:58maybe even more than they are using it already. If he stays healthy.
18:02Yeah. I don't disagree with that. And they love Latu as well. I mean, who is his tight end
18:06four. He is a great pass catcher. Needs to work a little bit on his blocking as well.
18:10Haas has been a little bit forgotten, at least from a statistical standpoint early on, but
18:14they have four guys in that room that they believe in. And they showed that by keeping all four on
18:18the
18:18initial 53 and rolling out with them, keeping them active, uh, each game so far. And you're right.
18:24Being ahead of these trends, being ahead of the curve is a lot better than playing catch up or
18:28trying to do that because like, you know, uh, within a few years, there's going to be something
18:32new and there's going to be ways to beat that. And at least if you're ahead of the curve, it
18:36gives
18:36you that at the advantage early on here. And it allows you to continue to think about other ways
18:41that you can mix and match your personnel, uh, to exploit other defenses. And how, you know,
18:46any conversation about the bills receiving core, I feel like would be incomplete without
18:50some mention of Keon Coleman who like, you know, he had to, he had to be called on, on Thursday.
18:56Once more went out, um, a little bit more than maybe we were expecting. And I feel like
19:02that was a really good night for him. And it's another thing I want to give the bills some credit
19:07for, cause it would have been pretty easy to just kind of throw your hands up and take a sixth
19:11round
19:12pick or a six, seven pick swap or whatever is in vogue these days in these trades, um, to just
19:18offload Coleman, but you know, maybe he still serves a purpose here.
19:23Absolutely. And we've heard it all, you know, all throughout the winter, the spring, it was
19:27Brandon Bean saying, we still believe in Keon Coleman. It was Joe Brady that when he got the
19:32head coaching job, he said, I told Keon Coleman, the best thing for his career is if I became the
19:36head coach of this team, uh, in terms of unlocking his utilization and to Keon Coleman's credit,
19:41I do feel like he has matured both on the field and off the field, uh, after some rocky starts
19:47here in his first two years, some missed meetings, things like that. You saw him put in additional
19:51work in the off season with Stevie Johnson, who was as good as anyone at separating off the line
19:56and you know, one workout or a few workouts with one player isn't going to change everything in
20:00someone's arsenal. But this summer we talked about him a lot at training camp where the wasted motion
20:06in his movements weren't there. I felt like his route running was a little bit disastrous in his
20:12first two seasons. There's a lot of wasted movement, wasted steps. I thought opposing cornerbacks
20:16kind of, uh, were able to keep up with him fairly easily. And he wasn't winning the 50,
20:2150 balls, the back shoulder plays at that point, but now he's creating a little bit more separation.
20:25He's getting open. You saw it against Detroit. They really counted on him in some pivotal moments
20:29on third downs late in that game. And he came through time and time again. How about the conference
20:35here? Did you feel like maybe a little order has been restored seeing the chiefs bills and bangles
20:39up at two and Oh, I mean, the Ravens are one in one, so they're not all the way up
20:42there,
20:43but it, it feels a little bit familiar. And I, I, I want to say I, maybe I kind of
20:48like it.
20:49Yeah, no, I agree completely. I think the bangles are maybe the biggest threat to the bills in
20:53general, this year out of the AFC, we've talked about the offense for so many years and how much
20:58talent there was, but it was kind of the same thing, uh, in Cincinnati that it's been in Buffalo.
21:02The defense lets up too many points, gives up too many points and the bangles just could never do
21:06much with that. Well, they go out this year and they had Dexter Lawrence and Jonathan Allen,
21:10Boy Mafe, Brian Cook in the secondary. They, they put some legitimate talent on that side of the ball
21:16and you're seeing how it's paid off, how much they were able to stop the Texans, uh, run game and
21:21make
21:22big plays against that unit. It's not just a one-sided offense there in Cincinnati. So I think
21:27they are as legit as it comes. Uh, the chiefs have had two very good showings, especially in their
21:32first game, back and forth game with the Colts, obviously in on Sunday night football, but they did
21:37enough to win that game. It's the, you know, the same pecking order, but boy, there's a lot of
21:42talent in this conference. You can talk about Jacksonville, Denver, um, that list goes on
21:47Houston as well. So it's going to be a gauntlet. Right. Although I don't know, are you, I don't
21:53know how much of, um, of Drake may in the Patriots you saw on Sunday, Ryan, but there's still, there's,
21:59I'm just seeing and reading from media to like Mike Giardi with Boston sports journal is a pretty
22:05regular guest with us. Um, wrote a little piece today. Like something just seems off about May
22:10the ball just doesn't, the interception he threw on Sunday against Pittsburgh was underthrown kind
22:16of badly. Um, which was the case with much of what happened in the opener in Seattle guy. I wonder
22:22if
22:22there's something, something there. Cause he doesn't look right at all. I mean, I know AJ Brown is missing,
22:28but he just looks weird to me. No, I agree completely with that. It's the velocity of
22:33throws. It seems like it's off versus past years. So maybe it's an elbow, maybe it's a shoulder,
22:38maybe it's nothing at all, but it's weird to see what you've come to expect from him in terms of,
22:44of the way he delivers the football. And you're right. Some passes that just aren't getting out
22:47there and an easy interception for Pittsburgh in that game, opposing teams are still trying to
22:53heat him up, get after him as much as possible to show that he can beat that. I think that
22:57gets to
22:57him a little bit as well, but the Patriots offense certainly does not look right right now.
23:02The defense carried them in a week two. They had them in that game and in week one as well.
23:07So I
23:07still think they're a threat from that perspective, but there are certainly some questions about Drake
23:12May. Any, uh, upcoming appearances for the shout podcast. Do you want to pub while, uh, while you
23:17got a chance here, Ryan? Yeah, we'll be live on Saturday night, uh, ahead of the chargers game,
23:22uh, at the Miller's port location. Then we'll be at the, uh, airport location ahead of the Patriots
23:29game. So we have two live shows coming up. Excited about them both.
23:33Sounds good. Thanks a lot, Ryan. Big fan of the work, both at Syracuse.com and the podcast with,
23:38uh, with Matt. Thanks for making the time for me today. Really appreciate it.
23:41Oh, absolutely. There you go. That is Ryan Talbot, Syracuse.com on the bills beat. Like if you're,
23:46you know, just looking for as much variety of coverage as you can find, uh, I would recommend
23:52Ryan. I, I always feel like I get something out of reading, uh, his work and Perino's work, uh, as.
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