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Former NFL GM Ran Carthon says he'd recommend Jayden Daniels gets surgery on his elbow to try and prevent more future issues.
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00:01grant and danny on the fan exclusively sponsored by the law firm kondori and morad
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00:26reliable heating and air conditioning products in the dmv welcome on to the show friend of the
00:31program now because it's the second time we've had him on we loved him the first time ran carthon the
00:35former general manager with cbs sports you see his analysis all over the place ran you're on in dc
00:41grant and danny how are you what's going on fellas how we doing doing very well so you had a
00:47strong
00:47take on jayden daniel's frame his size and even dating back to when he came out what the discussions
00:53were and how that's going to factor into his durability as a gm what do you remember about
00:58him as a prospect in that regard and were you concerned about his size yeah i mean i think
01:03it's kind of uh it's it's it's always a concern when you have guys slight frame right when that
01:09is regardless of position whether we're talking about a db or we're talking about a receiver
01:13or quarterback at you know for this matter i actually was watching a draft prospect receiver
01:19today who was um you know let's say six feet about 170 pounds and the first thing i wrote just
01:25watching him move around i was like oh he's thin framed right so you're always going to be concerned
01:31about the you know the thin frame guys because you know the nfl is a big man's game so to
01:36speak
01:36and so you know with jaylen coming out um being a quarterback you worried about um you were worried
01:43about his durability would durability be a concern taking hits and because he's a runner you know
01:49will he be able to protect himself and avoid those hits um you know so that was that was a
01:54bit of a
01:55concern because the thing is i mean jayden is he's not your typical dual threat quarterback right because
02:01he can throw the ball with accuracy and with timing um and anticipation but then he can also you know
02:07kill you with his legs and so um you don't want to take that away from his game and i
02:11don't think
02:12he should take that away from his game but i also think you know adding bulk um is going to
02:18help him
02:18and i was actually having this conversation with someone yesterday and we were talking about adding
02:22bulk and they were like well will that make him less athletic and i'm like no because there are
02:28different ways you can add bulk i'm not saying he needs to get in a weight room and become a
02:32bodybuilder
02:33right that's not you know that's not what i'm saying but adding additional bulk i think will help him
02:38and then i was reminded uh matt stafford's uh the earlier part of his career in detroit uh he only
02:44played in 10 games as a rookie matthew stafford and then the second year he only played in three games
02:49because of durability he was taking a lot of shots and getting hit a lot and had a you know
02:54a ton of
02:55shoulder injuries and uh those type of injuries and then it wasn't until uh going into his third year
03:00where he kind of bulked up or changed his body in the excuse me in the offseason and then he
03:06went on
03:06to play eight straight seasons of you know full seasons at that time 16 games so i just think that
03:12that would help him go along and help the durability part of jayton's game take me into the mind of
03:17a
03:17gm right now right where what considerations are you weighing and you know you're talking with the
03:23coaching staff training staff everything else but kind of what's going into the next couple of weeks
03:27couple of months or even even couple of years with regards to jay daniels being the quarterback of
03:31the team well i think i think jay daniels has shown plenty enough to say that he is you know
03:37a really
03:38good starting quarterback in the national football league when he's healthy because that when he's
03:42healthy part is going to be a part of the conversation um again it just takes me back
03:47throughout the history um i mean phil sims was injured a lot over the first five years of his career
03:54and i remember years and years ago when i was with the st louis rams and uh we were dealing
03:58with
03:59injuries to sam bradford and i remember having a conversation one time with uh coach parcells and
04:04i was like what was it about phil sims that made you want to stick with him as your starting
04:09quarterback even though he was injured for those first five years and he was like you know the one
04:13thing i knew with phil is that you know phil was tough phil worked hard he put in the time
04:20and effort
04:20in the weight room and he was like and just the playing of the quarterback his accuracy those were
04:25things that you couldn't find just walking around on the street and he was like ultimately that's
04:30what led him to make that decision and so you know for for me as like if i'm gm and
04:36i'm having
04:37these conversations with my coaching staff and with um you know without my other personnel staff
04:42it's like okay how can we devise a plan that'll be best to keep jayden upright and keep jayden
04:48available for us because obviously jayden gives you the best opportunity uh to win football games and so
04:53it will be how can we uh continue to build a team around him that a is going to keep
04:59him upright but
04:59we can maximize his ability and keep him on the field ran carth and former nfl general manager
05:05on grant and danny we've had the off season where he came back and added the 10 or 12 pounds
05:10and
05:10looked visibly bigger and that was the big camp storyline already and you saw this and you mentioned
05:16this in your broadcast like when he was running around the other day he was running all over dallas
05:20he's sliding he's protecting himself the coaching that he's gotten clearly has gotten through to him
05:25and he's doing everything in his power it's a 99 grade out of 100 at avoiding contact and then he
05:31gets
05:31hurt tripping getting stepped on and just kind of falling down in his elbow popping out i mean i sit
05:37here
05:37and i just wonder how can they protect him like they did everything right he did everything right and
05:43he still got hurt yeah i mean that and and that's the part where you add in that like it's
05:49it's a freak
05:50injury you know but then you think about it well it's happened twice uh kind of same similar ways
05:55so it's like is it a freak injury or like what's going on there and so i would be interested
06:01for me
06:01personally um and i didn't really talk about this on air yesterday i'll be interested as to when they do
06:07the you know the imaging the mris and everything is it something where you go in and and it's it's
06:14a
06:14surgery right because typically because i've had a dislocation in my shoulder where um i didn't want
06:21to get the surgery but me at the nature of my position playing running back um the the doctor told
06:26me hey if you get hit on this if you carry the ball 10 times and you get tackled all
06:3110 times
06:32there's a probability that eight out of the 10 times you carry the ball your shoulder is going to come
06:36out
06:37and so the next thing for me was like okay well i don't want to feel that pain you know
06:41eight out
06:42of 10 carries that i get and so the next thing for me was to go get the anchors and
06:46the screws
06:46you know in my shoulder to keep my shoulder in place and so i'm wondering if you know once they
06:52do
06:52the imaging once they see you know what's really going on structurally in the elbow is it something
06:57that you surgically repair to kind of tighten that area up because again it's not his throwing arm it's
07:03it's the left arm and so it how much will it really affect him to get that fixed but you
07:09know
07:09the thing is is again i know everything isn't jayden's fault and i'm i don't want to be the
07:14person to say that um but again it's you always got to look yourself in the mirror and say what
07:19else
07:20could i do to make the circumstance better you know i mean there are certain things that are that
07:24are not in your control i talk to my kids about this all the time like control what you can
07:29control
07:29you can't control what happens over here what happens over there but you can put yourself in
07:34the best situation possible um when even if those things do go awry if you're on top of what you're
07:40supposed to be on top of you at least have some you know some say in it and so for
07:46jayden that's
07:46what i said going back to the to the elbow thing i'll be interested to see what's really going on
07:51structurally in there rand garthon on gnd so going back to the idea of surgery you piqued my interest
07:58with that because the doctors that have come out and spoken about this none of whom are seeing his
08:04imaging obviously but these are the people that are public or break down football injuries or
08:08whatever they say that the best way to avoid this happening again is surgery that you can brace up
08:15and that'll really help avoid it popping out but otherwise it's going to keep popping out essentially
08:19but that surgery would be the closest thing to a surefire fix right but surgery would also mean the
08:26end of his season and we already know via a shefter report and just knowing the player
08:31daniels is going to be advocating that he doesn't want surgery he wants to come back in a few weeks
08:35play through the pain it's just a tolerance issue if he braces it up my question to you is if
08:40you're
08:40adam peters who you've worked with do you do you push back and go hey man i appreciate your teammates
08:47appreciate that you want to play but let's fix this thing once and for all this is year three like
08:52let's not linger into year four with possibly still having ramifications from this thing
08:57yeah i mean i i obviously would advocate on the side of getting it done and let's let's get it
09:03taken
09:03care of um because for everything you just said let's just get it taken care of once and for all
09:09and so that way we're not dealing with it again same thing you said hey i i appreciate your toughness
09:14and your willingness to lay it on the line for your teammates and for this organization
09:19however we don't want this to constantly be a thing and let's let's be honest here like when
09:23we're when you're out there and you're looking you know as a player you're looking to take advantage of
09:28any little thing that you can find right so if you're a quarterback and you know that this db
09:34is nursing a hamstring injury nine times out of ten hey you want your receiver taken deep let's see if
09:39he can run right let's see if he's willing to open up and run or if uh if uh if
09:44an offensive guard is
09:45playing on a gimpy ankle or a knee you're going to want to try to create some things that make
09:49him
09:49have to move laterally and so it'll be the same thing if jayden goes out there and tries to play
09:53through this injury they're going to be guys want to take shots on that elbow they may not say that
09:57publicly but they'll want to take shots on the elbow because you know if jayden daniels is in the
10:02game he's a threat and if he's not then you have a better chance at winning and so for me
10:08as you
10:08know if i were uh if i were ap or if i was uh dq or any of the guys
10:12that are going to be a part of
10:14making this decision i would err on the side of like hey let's get this fixed because and then
10:19also with that it's like you're advocating for the player you're doing what's in the best interest of
10:23the player and so sometimes with these you know with players these guys are they're warriors right
10:29and and the number one thing you talk about in the in the game of football is toughness guys that
10:34are tough you never want to have that label attached to you that you're not tough and then a lot
10:39of these
10:39guys play through a lot of you know a lot of injuries they put their body through a lot of
10:43pain and
10:44stress you know just because they're tough and they want to lay it on the line of their uh for
10:48their teammates and organization and sometimes you have to protect them from themselves ran you you
10:52referenced your own uh you know reluctance at the time to get a procedure on on your own shoulder
10:57and then you obviously sat in the different chair there as a gm did you ever have any of those
11:01tough
11:01conversations where you have to kind of explain that to to the player the agent and everybody's
11:06who's involved and kind of what goes into that and is i mean you just mentioned the balancing act
11:10where it's i understand your toughness it's not a toughness contest let's do the smart thing here
11:14had you ever have some pushback or take us through some of those convos oh yeah you definitely have
11:18pushback again it's the warrior mentality guys will the guys are warriors that want to lay it on the
11:23line but again if you if you approach this thing from from the right standpoint which i've always
11:28tried to insert as much uh humanity into the position as possible because again i've i mean i had a
11:36less than stellar career i played for five teams over three years and where sometimes you were just
11:40a product in the assembly line um sometimes you know one thing when i got in the front office i
11:45was
11:45like i always want to bring a human element to this thing and advocate for the player and do us
11:50in the
11:50best interest of the player and so having those tough conversations that that's a part of it and but
11:56having those tough conversations is also a sign of respect that you have for that player and then those
12:02players understand that so yeah you're going to get pushback but then when the guys know that you
12:07have their best interest at heart and they'll they'll ultimately relent and say hey okay i get it
12:12and sometimes i've had guys say hey what would you tell your own kids and i and i would always
12:17tell
12:17guys hey listen everything that i'm telling you is what i would tell my own children you know and so
12:22um again it's it's it's initial tough conversations but when guys know that you have their best interest at
12:28heart they'll ultimately listen to you rand carthin talking jaden daniels with us on gnd all right keep
12:36the gm hat on for a second because i want to talk about his future he has looked the part
12:41this is what
12:42a franchise quarterback a second contract a 10 12 year guy in your org that can lead you to the
12:48promised land looks like in the early part of his career heck even in this dallas game he was unreal
12:54in the first half before the injury but it's a lot of injuries i'm of the belief now that you
13:01table
13:01any thoughts about an extension unless really period even if he were to come back in a month and stay
13:07healthy for the rest of the year i'm now at a point where you can't extend him at the end
13:11of this season
13:12doesn't mean you won't eventually but you still have two more years you've got the fifth year rookie
13:17deal you could tag him you know there's a lot of ways you could keep him around and i would
13:21eventually
13:21pay him you just might have to pay more money but like i just think i've closed the book on
13:26an
13:26extension after this season with this injury again do you think it's too mature to say that like could
13:31they still pay him 70 million 65 million a year at the end of this season if he comes back
13:36in five
13:37weeks and doesn't get hurt again well i think i think a lot of what when we're talking about paying
13:42these quarterbacks i think uh the part of it that we don't we talk about the stats right and how
13:48their yards and you know uh touchdown interception ratio how all those things you know take into
13:54account but also what what comes into account is the the team success right and what type of team
14:00success are we having we saw as a rookie jayton daniels led the commanders to the nfc championship
14:06game and everyone in the dmv was like okay we're back we have our guys in the next two years
14:12have been
14:13injury uh feels so far um so yeah i think you table those those conversations um as of now but
14:20i think you have the understanding with jayton and his representation like hey we're going to table
14:24these conversations not saying that we're done having conversations or we don't want to have the
14:30conversation but our number one priority right now is getting him back on the field and experiencing
14:35team success with jayton and then we could pick up the conversation and let's let's be real with you
14:41know with the fact of the matter you know if he's healthy and he's performing like i believe everyone
14:46believes he can perform and the team is having success you already know that that price tag is
14:51going to come with a premium anyway right because that's just the cost of doing business and um we
14:56were talking about this on the show yesterday at what point does the quarterback uh market bubble when
15:02is that bubble going to pop right because we i mean you have right now we had them all up
15:06on the screen
15:07and you know right now baker mayfield is making more than josh allen and that's not a knock on
15:14baker mayfield it's just what the market is and so you know at some point now josh is going to
15:19come
15:19back to the fold patrick mahomes is uh making 64 a year dak prescott's making 60 so where do you
15:25think josh is going to come in next and he's going to he's not going to want you know 64
15:30.25 just to
15:32say he he's the highest paid this guy has an mvp probably on part of win another mvp maybe even
15:38get his team to the super bowl finally and if he's able to do that then that first number is
15:42probably
15:43going to start with a seven and so if jayden daniels is now healthy he's going to put his
15:48numbers up against say a dak prescott and say yes dak has had impressive statistical years but i've led
15:54my team to an nfc championship and dak has not and you know when i'm healthy my team is winning
16:00you
16:00know football games so again that's going to that number is going to start with a six so we know
16:04that
16:05no matter what if the guy's healthy that number comes with a premium and then on the big on the
16:10big um you know the grand scale of things from a macro level i mean i would hope everyone would
16:15be willing to pay that if you know for sure that you have a franchise quarterback so last year in
16:20town here in dc we learned you know some interesting lessons when it came to negotiation terry mclorin and
16:25that entire saga and the question i kept asking was what's the walkaway point for the team
16:30because everyone's best interest is him to be here and him to play here and him to produce
16:34didn't work out he got hurt a bunch and etc hadn't got off to a great start this year but
16:37i digress
16:38and my point was if the agent is just ludicrous and is asking for way above market for a guy
16:43that's
16:43north of 30 then at some point you have to go i'm not doing that anymore the question i ask
16:47here is
16:48what's the walkaway point for the team right now no one's in any hurry there's still plenty of season
16:52left this year next year and beyond but what's the point where they kind of go you know we can't
16:56do
16:57this anymore put yourself in the gym shoes there from an injury standpoint or for anything to say
17:00we you know what we it's no longer worth it to us to be in this business what's the walkaway
17:04point
17:05look like well i'll say this every every negotiation i've ever done you know i bought my my number one
17:12thing that i come into it with i come i come into it with my walkaway price and say hey
17:17we're going
17:17to do everything in our power to get a guy signed where it's a win-win situation but at some
17:23point
17:24we can't do this and whatever my walkaway price is i'm like hey this is the walkaway price you set
17:29that hard from the very point um that you start the conversations and you let the agent know up
17:34front you don't give them the exact number but you say hey i have a walkaway price and you have
17:39to be
17:40okay with that organizationally no matter how much you love a guy and just say hey this is what i
17:45believe because nine times out of ten where the organization is from a walkaway price there are other
17:50there are a high majority of the other teams around the league that feel the same way and so
17:55that number is gonna eventually dwindle down from the agent standpoint because it's the agent's job
18:00to push for the highest number possible right i've had a negotiation i won't say which but
18:05had a negotiation where we came in with a number that i thought was really respectable especially from
18:12a starting point and then the the agent damn near doubled on his counter right and i i literally
18:21stopped and i went like once i got the proposal i called the agent i was like hey man listen
18:26like i
18:27get it you got a job to do and you got to push back so we can meet i was
18:30like we got to do all the
18:31i was like but there's no way in hell that i'm going to take this counter you just gave me
18:37to ownership
18:38and say this is what you counter back i was like because everyone is going to look at you as
18:42being
18:42delusional i was like so i'll give you another opportunity to come back with something that's
18:46more reasonable that i would feel more comfortable taking to my boss and saying hey this is what they
18:51counter back i was like because this does not make you look smart did they give you another number
18:57yeah they gave me another number that was still ridiculous does not make you look smart is a great
19:00line it was it was it was less ridiculous than the first one you know what i mean but but
19:06that's what
19:06that's what agents have to do i mean we are i mean we've all bought cars and you know had
19:11to
19:11negotiate with people um and so i we know how the game goes but i think if you have if
19:16you do the
19:17right market analysis and understand where the markets are going and you set your hard number uh
19:23as your walk away price first and then i just think you just have to stick to it rand awesome
19:29information great insight we love having you on thank you anytime fellas be good there's rand carth on
19:35former general manager in tennessee with the titans of course cbs sports let's go around the nfl next
19:40our fastest 16 minutes break down all the games outside of commanders cowboys from week two this is
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