- 9 minutes ago
The programme examines the growing global debate over AI safety after Anthropic researcher Jacob Coxon resigned, warning of existential risks from unchecked development, and looks at Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei's three-step framework for AI safeguards and international coordination.
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00:01good evening hello and welcome you're with the news today this is your prime
00:05time destination news newsmakers talking points our big talking point tonight the
00:10anthropic CEO Dario Amodai also now says AI must slow down the big controversy
00:18across the world will AI put human risk at risk fears of AI companies that it
00:25could destroy human beings genuine or hype that's our big talking point but
00:32first as always it's time for the nine headlines at nine a day after home
00:39minister Amit Shah vows UCC in all 21 NDA rule states by 2029 JDU opposes uniform
00:47civil code in Bihar top JDU leaders say they will hold a meeting with the home
00:52minister on UCC soon US president Donald Trump now wades into the controversy
01:00over increasing AI safety concerns alleges a sick conspiracy by negative forces
01:05says USA as a high IQ president that is enough to control AI hit and run horror
01:13in Gurugram car chases female biker and hits her Gurugram cops file a sewer motor
01:19FIR accused car driver remains brazen blames victim for the incident the man who
01:27assaulted retired IA officer arrested Cargill war veteran was arrested was
01:33attacked with an iron rod by a parking attendant in Gurugram
01:39six years after her death CBI registers a fresh FIR in the Disha Saliyan death case in Mumbai
01:46UBT Sena MLA Aditya Thakre actors Dino Moria Rhea Chakravarti Suraj Pancholi named in FIR
01:55they will be investigated they are not yet being called accused
02:02controversy over Tamil Nadu chief minister Vijay's London trip escalates Vijay government signs two
02:08MOUs in London for investment in Tamil Nadu AI ADMK asks why sign MOU with a company that is based
02:16in
02:16Noida is this simply a junket BJP sweeps Rajasthan local body polls wins over 4100 wards in the state
02:27across 309 civic bodies Congress is in second place
02:35Indian women's team refuses to collect Asia cup trophy from Pakistan cricket chief
02:40Mosi Nakvi after their thumping win in the final against Sri Lanka and Dubai
02:44BCCI says no question of change in India's stand when it comes to handshakes with Pakistan
02:52and Ganesh Chaturthi fervor in Maharashtra and across the country even as the Fadnavis government
02:58in Mumbai decides to curb the use of DJ music
03:14but tonight we start with a story that is now creating shockwaves across the world
03:20and spreading panic AI safety fears have now been articulated more than ever before
03:28the builders of AI are now admitting that unchecked use of artificial intelligence
03:33could kill us all by the end of the decade
03:37Anthropic CEO Daru Amadi among others has called for a slowdown warning that AI is now working to build
03:45increasingly more powerful AI that could slip out of control out of many companies
03:51his proposal has found support even from rival AI bosses including Sam Altman and also Elon Musk is admitting to
03:59this
04:00US president Donald Trump and China have dismissed these fears
04:04even so we thought today is a good day to look at what is becoming the major issue across the
04:10world
04:11what really will AI do to humankind that's our top focus tonight
04:30AI researcher Jacob Coxon's resignation from Anthropic has opened a can of worms
04:39Coxon who has also worked with open AI claimed researchers building artificial intelligence believe that AI could kill the
04:47humans by the end of the decade
04:54now Dario Amadi the chief executive of Anthropic is ringing the alarm bells in an open letter on Saturday
05:02Amadi called for a slowdown in the development of AI
05:06Amadi mentions two developments to back his call
05:12he claims AI is itself helping build a next generation of AI
05:16Amadi says this dynamic called recursive self-improvement is happening across the industry including his company
05:24left unchecked this could outrun human ability to understand and control these systems
05:29Amadi's points to another incident when open AI systems attacked an AI startup hugging face
05:36The attack went unnoticed till hugging face informed open AI weeks later
05:43The Anthropic chief executive has proposed a three-step plan
05:50One independent embedded reviewers could study systems at Anthropic and other big AI firms
05:57Two, AI companies in democratic countries agree on common safety standards and limits on the rate of unchecked AI progress
06:06Three, the US and other democratic governments coordinate with authoritarian governments and convince them to follow similar practices
06:18Amadi has got support from his competitors in the US
06:21Sam Altman, the chief executive of open AI
06:25Elon Musk, chief executive of SpaceX
06:27And Demis Hassabis, the chair of Google DeepMind have acknowledged the concerns
06:34However, US President Donald Trump has played down the threats posed by AI
06:39We're leading China in AI
06:41We're the most sophisticated country in the world
06:44And frankly, I want to keep it that way
06:46Because whoever wins, AI wins
06:48And we can quit guardrails, we can do this and that
06:51But I think you have a lot of negative forces that are bringing it up
06:54That shouldn't be bringing it up
06:57And they're bringing up things that won't happen
06:59But whoever wins with AI wins
07:01You know, it's an expression that I came up with
07:04And it's true
07:06China too has rejected the concerns raised by the tech czars
07:10The development of artificial intelligence concerns the common well-being of all humanity
07:18Spreading various threat narratives and engaging in confrontation and malicious competition
07:23Will only disrupt the global AI governance process and serve the interests of no one
07:33Amadi's views have also been disputed by smaller AI players in the West
07:37These critics are questioning how the leaders in the market can set the rules for the rest and create a
07:44monopoly for themselves
07:47Should AI have a kill switch? Even if it had, will it work?
07:53These are the questions the world will have to grapple within the coming months
07:59Bureau Report, India Today
08:05Okay, joining me now, my first guest today is a special one
08:08Vineet Nayar, former CEO of HCL
08:10Also author of Humans First, Machine Second
08:13Join us
08:14Good to have you on the show, Mr. Nayar
08:16How do you react to when you hear researchers at Anthropic
08:19For example, Jacob Coxon, who resigned in protests
08:23Going on record to say that people are building AI
08:26When they earnestly, privately believe that it could kill us all by the end of the decade
08:31No other human activity, he says, poses this level of danger
08:35Is he and others exaggerating the threat that AI poses to humankind or do they have a point?
08:44So, when we were growing up, I'm sure you heard that story of
08:47Share Aya, Share Aya, right? And the share never arrived
08:52See, you have to see what is the lemon being sold for all these years
08:59The lemon being sold for all these years is AI is more intelligent than human
09:03AI is going to take over the jobs
09:05And now AI is going to kill us
09:07So, if you watch that movie called God Must Be Crazy
09:10A Coke bottle falls in Africa
09:12And suddenly they treat it as God
09:14They worship it and they call it a devil
09:16These guys have to prevent their trillion dollar valuations
09:21Although I'm a big fan of AI
09:23But it is running ahead of its delivery
09:26So, the hype cycle is going up because of which they are setting as a story
09:31Number one, it is going to deliver something which it has not delivered but it will deliver tomorrow
09:36And now suddenly they are saying that they are ganging up and saying
09:39Hey, we are going to slow down
09:41And that is the reason we will not be able to deliver to the trillion dollar valuation
09:45No, so I don't buy into that argument
09:47I buy into the argument that AI is one of the most exciting technologies which is going to happen
09:51But I don't buy into the argument of either AI is going to lead the humans or AI is going
09:57to kill the humans
09:58So, when you have Mr. Nayyad, the Anthropic CEO Dario Amadai also backing this in a way
10:06Saying that the pace of development of AI needs to slow down
10:12The risk is that otherwise something could go seriously wrong
10:15Are you saying all of this is part of a hype machine that is frightening the world?
10:22I think so
10:23See, the fact that, you know, a lot of these companies want to list
10:26And they want to list at a trillion dollar valuation
10:29And the question I ask is, where is the use case?
10:32When internet came in, it took seven years for Amazon to came in, Facebook to come in, Google to come
10:37in
10:38And those were mega use cases which transformed the use of technology into revenue bearing activity
10:43Where is that revenue bearing activity which AI has driven?
10:47It will definitely drive
10:48It will transform industries
10:50It will transform education
10:52But where is the use case right now?
10:54So, in absence of those use case and the fact that you want to get listening
10:58Initially, you said AI is going to be brighter than the humans
11:01Then you said it is going to have more IQ than the humans
11:04Then you said that it will take over all the jobs
11:07And now you're saying it is going to kill
11:09So, basically, you want to center all the arguments of AI, Aane Walai, Aane Walai, Aane Walai
11:15But the fact is, where is that use case?
11:18Right?
11:18After electricity, there was a use case
11:20After internet, there was a use case
11:22So, it will come
11:23But it is not coming right now
11:25It is not coming tomorrow
11:26So, he may be right, he may be wrong
11:28But I would say the probability of his being wrong or they all being wrong
11:32And there's one other thing, Rajiv
11:34There are lots of young people who are developing LLMs
11:37And half the cost at ten times faster
11:39And therefore, when you bring in this kind of
11:42Share AI concept
11:44That kind of innovation really dies down
11:46So, I would take that with a pinch of salt
11:51In a sense, what you're saying is interesting, Mr. Nayar
11:54You're saying this is a crisis of a business model
11:57That these are big companies that now have these huge valuations
12:01But don't have a proper revenue model in place
12:03And therefore, are creating possibly these exaggerated fears
12:07But there will be those, Mr. Nayar, who will argue that Frontier AI should be
12:12Should, does need auditing
12:14It needs an independent safety regulator
12:17Some kind of a regulatory framework
12:19Do you agree with that?
12:20That they cannot be allowed to operate at scale
12:23Without some kind of oversight
12:27100% I agree with that
12:29Any new technology which gets developed
12:31Right, needs to pass some kind of a safety test
12:34And therefore, whatever they have promotes
12:36That there should be a watcher
12:37We have those watchers in financial services industry
12:39We have those watchers in many other areas
12:41I absolutely agree
12:42Yes, let's do it
12:43But not out of fear
12:45See, you cannot create a FUD out of fear
12:48So, first you created a FUD out of hype
12:51And then you created a FUD out of the fact
12:53That it is a solution for every ills of this society
12:55And we are going to live till 150 years
12:57And now you're going to create a FUD out of fear
13:00That concept is different to the fact that there should be a supervision
13:03Anything which is going to impact humanity in such a big way
13:07Has to have a supervision
13:08Internet has a supervision
13:10And financial services have a supervision
13:12Of course, it should have some kind of supervision
13:15But not over-regulation which is going to kill it
13:18But it is also, Mr. Nayar
13:21Whether one likes it or not
13:22Creating a concentration of power of the kind
13:24We've never seen before
13:25Possibly in just two or three large AI companies
13:29Concentration of technological power
13:31That could be deeply unsettling and unhealthy for society
13:34Because, you know, the fear is that AI wants to play a god
13:38And control every aspect of our lives
13:40How do you change that?
13:42Is that at all possible?
13:43Is there an inevitability when you have such technologies disrupting the world
13:47That there will be fears?
13:48Are these fears rational or irrational?
13:53Not an irrational fear
13:54But if you look at the capitalist society which we have built for ourselves
13:57Right?
13:58Operating system, there are a table of two
14:02Search, there are a table of two
14:05MRP and ERP, there are a table of two
14:08Pharmaceutical, there is a table of five
14:10Financial services, there is a table of five
14:12So, therefore, unfortunately in a capitalist society
14:16The amount of money you can throw in towards innovation
14:19Creates that kind of monopoly, duopoly or fiveropoly
14:23And that is inevitable in our scheme of things
14:27But so far we have survived them
14:29Right?
14:30Microsoft came in and it was the exclusive operating system
14:33Used across the world and then Linux came in
14:35So, we have survived that and therefore
14:38I would be less worried about the fact that
14:40There are three people or four people
14:42Talking about AI
14:43And I can tell you because I work in artificial intelligence
14:47Quite extensively
14:48What is coming, the innovation which is coming behind
14:51Is at much lower cost, much faster
14:54It will not be able to solve 100% of the problems
14:56But the very fact that it can solve 80 or 70% of the problem
15:00At one tenth the cost and ten times faster
15:03Is a market disruptor
15:05So, you are absolutely right
15:06That the business model is getting disrupted
15:08On one side, they are billions and billions
15:11Or trillions of dollars of investment
15:13Is not finding a return on investment
15:15Number two, all the young people who are coming from behind
15:18Are able to do 70% of what they are doing
15:20So, where will the revenue come from?
15:22And there is no business case
15:24Like internet, like a search or like an Amazon
15:28Which is going to result into billions of dollars
15:30So, therefore, create a fraud and create fear
15:33That, you know, gods must be crazy and be able to die
15:36You know, it's interesting the way you are putting it
15:38Because if I look at the trajectory
15:41First, these big companies capture market share
15:44Build, as you said, duopolies or monopolies
15:46And now suddenly are expressing fears about
15:49After having captured these large amounts of market share
15:53About what AI could do to the world
15:54Do you believe that in general
15:57Are these large AI models
15:59The anthropics, the open AI is operating responsibly
16:02Or who's going to even ensure that they act responsibility
16:07Given the enormous transnational power they wield today
16:10Who's going to check them at all?
16:13Sir Rajdeep, whatever we don't know, we fear
16:17Right?
16:18So, when internet came in and the fact that nobody was controlling internet
16:22We had the same fear that when I put my data on internet
16:25When I send an email from there to there
16:27Will somebody pluck it out and therefore there will be no confidentiality
16:30And then the security systems and then the encryption systems came in
16:33Which prevented that from happening
16:36So, any technology revolution comes in
16:38We have a similar fear that the technology is going to eat us up
16:42Or technology, including nuclear fuels, right?
16:44Including nuclear bombs, right?
16:46But the society found a way of controlling those technologies
16:49And keeping humans above the technology
16:53And I think I have no fear
16:54See, AI, I'm very excited
16:56It has an opportunity to solve some of our poverty problems
17:00Some of our health care problems
17:01Some of our access problems
17:02Some of our education problems
17:04Very excited about it
17:05And we will, as a society, find
17:07See, as many people are working on AI
17:09Many other people are working on controlling AI
17:12On security systems
17:13And making sure it doesn't go out of sync
17:15And therefore, I think society will find a way of controlling AI
17:19And all this is hog-bossed on the fact that AI is going to take over society
17:23Take over jobs
17:24Take over intellect
17:25And kill us all
17:28But if there was one piece of advice you would give Mr. Nayar
17:31As someone who's seen the technological revolution from the frontiers
17:35First hand over the last several decades
17:37What is that one piece of advice you would give to the new cutting edge
17:41AI companies that are mushrooming across the world?
17:46I can't give an advice to cutting edge AI companies
17:49Because they are capitalist
17:50They want to raise funds
17:51And therefore, trillion-dollar valuation is important for them
17:53So, they will
17:55In India, we say
17:56They will keep doing that
18:00We don't have to be the snake dancing to the tune, right?
18:02We have to use our own rationale
18:04And say, why are they saying it?
18:06What is their incentive in saying it?
18:07And what should be my case?
18:09My case should be to use the technology at $20 a month or whatever it is
18:16And find use case to solve problems which are not solved
18:19So, corporates should look at business cases
18:22Not using subscription
18:24But look at business cases of using the technology to transform their business
18:28Entrepreneurs should look at the next Amazon, the next Facebook, the next Google
18:32So, all of us should not worry about the technology
18:34All of us should worry about if the technology comes
18:37Because it is going to be available to everybody
18:39It's not Rajdeep, you will have the technology and I will not have the technology
18:42Technology will be available to everybody
18:44And that is the reason I say in my book, Humans First, Machine Second
18:49That there are 30 ways you can prosper
18:52Leveraging the technology to transform your business
18:55And transform your children's life to do something which has not been happening before
19:02You are saying 30 ways which you can prosper from AI
19:06Give me one, give me one where AI far from being this force that will destroy humankind
19:12Will actually take humankind to another level
19:15Give me one good example
19:19Very good, so with AI two things are going to happen
19:23One, knowledge which you took 23 years to get in colleges
19:26You will be able to get in 23 days
19:28Second, the experience of 30 years, you can get it in 23 months or in 30 days
19:35Now, imagine all our organizations are structured around experience and knowledge
19:40I am a general manager because I have 20 years of experience and I have this plethora of knowledge
19:45With all the knowledge and all the experience going into AI, what does it mean to hierarchy?
19:51What does it mean to organize and structure?
19:53So therefore, all these tools are going to be available with young people
19:56They will have the experience and they will have the knowledge on the click of a button
19:59So what happens to the organization? Massive innovation is going to happen
20:04Massive time is going to be unlocked and these young people with the experience and the knowledge
20:08Without waiting for 30 years suddenly have that and therefore what are they going to do with the time?
20:13They are going to reinvent, they are going to try and make something happen
20:16And that is what the book is about, that you can use that time to innovate, to reimagine
20:21And to do something which has not been done so far
20:24But what's the biggest downside, Mr. Nayar?
20:27Surely there's a downside, many concerns over jobs, there are concerns over defense security
20:33Over how AI could infiltrate surveillance systems, bust our privacy
20:39They could pose threats to national sovereignty, what according to you is the biggest downside?
20:46Yeah, I think there are three downsides
20:48First is there is going to be a short term pain
20:51In jobs, we are going to have less jobs, right?
20:53Because if we are not going to be ready to create new opportunities
20:56Number two, security threats, you are absolutely right
20:59That with new technology coming in, the security industry always is a little behind
21:04So therefore, the defense industries, the capitalist industries, the organizations have to get ready
21:10But the third, the biggest problem is our education system is not ready
21:14Our education system to be able to adopt AI and transform AI from knowledge giving education
21:21To building curiosity, to building experimentation, to building problem solving, we are wrong-footed
21:27And therefore, the question is, are our built-in people going to be ready for the new AI world coming
21:33in?
21:33So those are the three, I would say, not downsides, but initial five-year pain, three five-year pain, which
21:39we are going to see
21:42Mereen Nayar, thank you very much for joining me here on the news today
21:46Good to have you on the show
21:53Okay, let's widen the debate then on this critical issue
21:56Will AI put human race at risk as some are fearing?
22:00Are the fears of AI company researchers genuine or not?
22:05Is it time for a global safety AI network?
22:08And should there be a kill switch that can, in a way, effectively stop, if at all possible, some of
22:16these technologies?
22:17Those are some of the questions I want to raise
22:19Joining me now, special guest, joined by CP Gurnani
22:23Former CEO at Tech Mahindra, co-founder and vice chairman of INOS joins me
22:28Also being joined by Kareen Ben-Simon
22:31She's in Tel Aviv
22:33She's VP Global Partnerships at DREAM
22:35It's a sovereign AI and cyber unicorn valued at 3 billion US dollars
22:41And Lalitesh Katragada is also joining me
22:44Founder of Indiehood.com and an AI expert
22:47Good to have all of you on the show
22:48So I want to go first to you in Tel Aviv, Kareen
22:52How are you seeing this entire controversy that's now snowballing across the world
22:56Started with an anthropic researcher quitting the company
23:00Saying AI companies are gambling with our lives
23:03And pose some kind of a risk to humankind
23:07Do you think it's an exaggerated fear?
23:11So I believe that eventually government in order to be able to defeat this race
23:18They have to employ and deploy also sovereign AI capabilities
23:23You have to be able to control the data
23:26You have to be able to own the data and the infrastructure below it
23:31So regardless of any, let's say, innovative or attacker's capabilities
23:36You will have to make sure that you have the necessary measures
23:40AI based because if not, it's not like an equivalent race
23:46To be able to protect your entities and your data and your government
23:52Critical infrastructures with AI
23:58Now, so are you saying that there should be
24:00Governments will have the power to have some kind of a kill switch
24:03A safety or security mechanism that can shut down an AI system or machine
24:10If there is an emergency or some danger that's seen
24:13Is that what you're saying? Is that feasible?
24:16So I'm saying that eventually each government
24:19When they deploy or when they use AI
24:22They have to put the necessary measures
24:24Each government choose on how to do it
24:28But they will have to have the necessary measures
24:30In order to protect and to make sure that everything is in place
24:35So I think that eventually we'll have to make sure that
24:38The government has the ownership of the data
24:41And they have also the capability to understand and to control
24:45What is happening in their AI stack
24:49If you decide to put a kill switch based on your, let's say, internal models
24:53Because that's the controls that you provide
24:56But we want to make sure that at least we know what we have inside of it
24:59In the entire AI stack
25:05You know, C.P. Gudnani, you're hearing what Kareen is saying
25:09That governments will need to have some kind of control over data
25:13Do you believe that's at all feasible?
25:16I've had Vineet Nayar today on my show
25:18He says these fears in any case are exaggerated
25:20Even when the internet first came
25:22There were all kinds of fears about what internet would do to our existence
25:26Now it's AI companies and maybe this is a valuation game
25:30How do you respond?
25:32So let's take a step back
25:35The first time in the history of technology
25:39Three companies agreed with each other
25:43Elon Musk, OpenAI and Anthropik
25:47So you cannot say that the incident that happened at OpenAI
25:55Is not a warning signal
25:59Number two, we also saw the three steps that the three companies have suggested
26:09One is on-site auditor
26:13One is lab being coordinated
26:18And number third, agree with China on testing and limits
26:24Now, this kind of collaboration
26:29More to re-emphasize that AI is now running faster
26:39You know, Anthropik founder has said
26:44AI is now generating new AI
26:47I think we need to take it very, very seriously
26:52And there are only two or three ways of looking at it
26:57Number one is control the usage of AI
27:01I mean, let's not assume that this is a machine
27:06Which can be given to every individual
27:09And allowed to function on its own
27:13Number two is control the use cases
27:18Because if you run a use case
27:21Then you are basically saying
27:24I define the input and I define the output
27:27So, I can only repeat
27:30That current
27:34I mean, they are using the word slow down
27:38I would say
27:41Can we hit the pause button
27:45And till we are able to
27:47But you see, it's very interesting
27:50Sorry, sorry to intervene
27:55You are saying we could maybe hit the pause button
27:57But these are the very same companies
27:59That have built these large market valuations
28:02They have got large market share
28:04Now, suddenly they are recognizing the dangers
28:06And the fears of AI
28:08I mean, they have been at this for years now
28:11Suddenly, AI becomes so dangerous
28:13Did they not know this earlier?
28:16As you have noticed
28:19Some of these events have been a wake-up call
28:24You heard about the open AI experiment
28:28The people who are not connected
28:32People who are working in isolation
28:34And the agency AI I am talking about
28:38Agency AI working in isolation
28:40Is able to create fake accounts and fake narratives
28:46I don't think the authors of this software
28:50Knew about it
28:52And if they knew about it
28:54I would say
28:56That at least now
28:58The three of them are agreeing
29:01They are agreeing that
29:02They have a monster in hand
29:10So, you know, Mr. Gurnani is saying there's a monster in hand
29:16Lalit Katragada, how do you respond?
29:18Do you believe there's a monster that's been created
29:21A Frankenstein that's been created that could devour its own?
29:24Or do you believe that's an exaggeration?
29:26That actually AI is an enabler
29:28And we've got to look at the positives
29:30While also being conscious of security concerns that may be raised
29:35There's a danger now that these fears could sort of create a
29:38Fear mongering could create a sense of hysteria once again
29:43Yeah, I think there's a little bit of all of that going on, Rajdeep
29:50See, if you take a step back, compared to the internet
29:53This is the first time in human history
29:55Where we have machines that can learn
29:57Learn not just what they are taught
29:59But learn things they have not been taught
30:01So the risks are definitely higher
30:03But if you look very closely
30:05The fourth AI company in the world
30:09Where the AI system, Gemini, is run by Demis
30:13Demis has sort of agreed
30:15But also said that some of these threats are highly exaggerated
30:20He believes the risk is in the sub 1% and so on
30:24But having said that, I think there is no doubt
30:26We need to have regulation
30:28And the first point that Karina made, I completely echo
30:33The risks of code that you don't control
30:36The risks of data you don't control are very high
30:38So the Indian, I think the regulation needs to recognize that
30:42And in the long run, maybe medium term
30:44Indian companies, whether they are customers of the software
30:48Or producers of the software
30:49We need to have our own code
30:51And we need to have our own data
30:54But most importantly, I think we need to focus a lot more on security
30:57Than we have been
30:58But having said that, I am an optimist
31:00I think this AI era is going to create an era of plenty
31:04And I think we should not lose sight of that
31:09But you know, Lalit, if China, US, which are the two big powers that are in this major AI war
31:17or AI race
31:18And they gain enormous economic and strategic advantage out of it
31:22Can we really have a global safety regime?
31:26Yes, Karen, you want to step into that?
31:28Because, you know, China and Washington, will they agree to these red lines?
31:34Or will national security competition make us an AI arms control regime?
31:39I mean, who's going to really bell the cat?
31:41Which governments are going to agree to this?
31:43Will China in particular agree to have the kind of control over AI?
31:47And disclose that to the world?
31:52So I think that when we had the same issue with cybersecurity
31:57Let's say the offensive side had always
32:01Was always, you know, like a very advanced
32:03Very innovative in their techniques, etc.
32:05It didn't mean that the defense or the defenders had regulations and had global collaboration
32:13And had relevant, let's say, measures, security measures to make sure that
32:18Again, we minimize the race between attacker and defenders
32:23It's the same for AI
32:25Even when we discovered a dream, an autonomous AI cyber attack recently
32:31That targeted government entities in Asia
32:35We were able to understand how it operated
32:38And also shared the best practices with the government customers that we have
32:43With the global ecosystem
32:44Because, again, you have to make sure that you identify the necessary countermeasures
32:49So it doesn't mean that even if there's, you know, like a war
32:54Or let's say attackers on the one side
32:59You have to make sure that you empower the defenders
33:02Leveraging AI capabilities
33:03Right
33:03What we do also with Dream
33:06We provide this empowerment for the cyber defenders
33:08In the cybersecurity field
33:20Okay, we're getting some breaking news at this moment
33:23In the big hit and run case that has taken place in Guru Gram
33:27The girl Sia's family, she was a biker who was hit by a speeding car
33:32Had arrived at the Guru Gram Sector 46, 56 police station
33:36They have alleged that the daughter was not merely hit
33:39But there was an attempt being made to kill her
33:42Remember, a young woman biker was chased on a city road yesterday
33:48Rammed by a speeding car and left injured
33:51The shocking incident in Guru Gram once again putting the spotlight
33:55On whether India's roads are really safe from hit and run accidents
33:59These are not isolated incidents
34:01We've had deadly crashes involving luxury cars
34:04Reckless stunts on public roads
34:07Underage driving
34:08And now this case of hit and run
34:10Where a woman biker was hit in the heart of Guru Gram
34:14By a speeding car
34:15Take a look at what happened
34:19I told her to go a little further
34:22I told her to go a little further
34:23And she said
34:24Bye Kroko
34:25And trust me
34:26They all were drunk
34:28And in the midst of cutting
34:29I'm going to kill her
34:31I'm going to kill her
34:32I'm going to kill her
34:33I'm going to kill her
34:33When she was killed
34:34My friend was trying to chase her
34:37She was actioning
34:38I told her to go a little further
34:41Okay, let's
34:45Let me go across to Arvind Oja
34:48Our reporter who is tracking this story
34:51Arvind
34:52What has said to the CIA family
34:55And why did they find F.I.R. file for this time?
34:5824 hours before this incident
35:00Now they are filing F.I.R. file
35:01And what are you saying?
35:04Look, the CIA family is the father of the CIA
35:07We talked about it
35:08She said
35:10My daughter didn't tell me anything
35:13It's very possible that children are scared of this
35:14But when the video on the social media
35:16It was viral
35:18She told her
35:19She talked about her daughter
35:20After her lawyer
35:21She reached the police station
35:24She filed a complaint
35:26And she filed a complaint
35:28Before this incident
35:28F.I.R.
35:29The police did it
35:32When the video on the social media
35:33It was viral
35:34Until the police
35:36There was no complaint
35:38But
35:39But
35:39The police said
35:42The police said
35:43First of all
35:46The CIA family
35:47That it was not accident
35:49The CIA
35:50That it was not accident
35:51That it was not accident
35:51The CIA
35:53The CIA
36:04The CIA
36:04That it was not accident
36:05That it was not accident
36:11Okay, Arvind Noja are saying
36:12That
36:13The parents are now
36:14Or the family is now
36:15Claiming that their daughter
36:16Was deliberately hit
36:17By the speeding car
36:19It was not an accident
36:20Let's just play that full report
36:31A young woman on a bike, chased on roads, rammed by a speeding car and left injured.
36:38She was out on a ride with members of a local biking group on Gurugram's Golf Course Road.
36:45In a video posted on Instagram, the biker shared that a car began aggressively tailing
36:51her motorcycle and occupants demanded that she pull over.
36:55But she kept riding and the car continued to pursue her.
37:06A fellow biker then tried to position himself behind her, using his own motorcycle to shield
37:13her from the pursuing car.
37:16But the car driver then allegedly attempted to cut in front of her bike, striking her at
37:21high speed and fleeing the sea.
37:23It was a terrible thing.
37:28I was afraid to kill a car, which is funny.
37:34It's a good crime.
37:36The person who was in the car is not a criminal.
37:43However, they tried to kill such a car in the road.
37:47It was a big crime.
37:49It was a crime as a police officer.
37:50It was a crime that the people of the car were not currently in the car were the police.
37:52It was a criminal.
38:03India today has spoken to the accused Kalyan, who has instead blamed the victim, saying she was driving erratically.
38:45But look beyond this one case.
38:49In February, a speeding Scorpio crushed a 23-year-old boy in Delhi.
38:53In May 2024, a Porsche killed two people in Pune.
38:58In July that year, a BMW hit-and-run killed a woman in Mumbai.
39:03In July 2025, a drunk Audi driver ran over five people sleeping on a footpath in Delhi.
39:11This is not simply about reckless driving.
39:15It is about the entitlement syndrome on India's roads.
39:19Unchecked entitlement may begin with a traffic violation.
39:24But time and again, it ends with lives being lost.
39:29Bureau report, India today.
39:35Okay, let's turn from there, from the big story in Gurugram to the big story that happened in Mumbai today,
39:40when the Disha Salian death case, the CBI today chose to file an FIR, which has named several high-profile
39:48individuals who will be investigated after Disha's father filed a complaint.
39:53Remember, Disha allegedly, according to the Mumbai police, committed suicide in 2021.
40:00But now, the FIR names the likes of Shiv Sena, UBT, MLA, Aritya Thakre, his father and party chief, Uddav
40:09Thakre, actor Rhea Chakrabarti, and others.
40:12Disha's father has claimed that she was gang raped and murdered, and it was not a case of suicide.
40:18The FIR goes beyond these names, probing allegations of delayed autopsy, missing evidence, and what they claim is a false
40:26suicide narrative, or at least what Disha's family claims.
40:30Take a look at this report.
40:45A fresh probe has now opened a new chapter in the death of actor-manager Disha Salian.
40:53After Bombay High Court directed the CBI to probe Disha Salian's death, following a petition filed by her father, the
41:01central agency recorded Satish Salian's statement on Friday.
41:07The CBI has now filed an FIR based on Satish Salian's statement, in which he alleged his daughter was gang
41:17raped and murdered.
41:28India today has accessed a copy of the CBI FIR, and the document mentions several high-profile names, including political
41:39figures, actors, and police officials, whose alleged roles are now to be investigated.
41:49The list includes Shiv Sena UBT MLA Aditya Thakre, his father and party chief Uddhav Thakre, actor Riyadh Chakrabarti, her
42:02brother Shauvik Chakrabarti, actor Suraj Pancholi, and Dino Moria.
42:08The FIR also mentions former police officials Sachin Vazay and Parambir Singh, along with former Maharashtra Home Minister Anil Deshmukh.
42:21The CBI probe is not just about the people named in the FIR, the agency is also examining serious allegations
42:28about how the original investigation was handled.
42:34From a delayed autopsy report to alleged suppression and destruction of evidence, claims of a false suicide narrative, and the
42:46alleged fabrication of evidence during the investigations.
42:51The statement of Satish Salayan has been recorded, and as per the statement, FIR has been registered, though the complaint
42:59alleges names of Aditya Thakre, Uddhav Thakre, Dino Moria, Riyadh Chakrabarti, Suraj Pancholi, and several others.
43:07But CBI will be probing the case, will conduct their probe, and only then they'll be naming accused in the
43:16case.
43:16As of now, CBI also went on to mention that it is a suspected offence.
43:25Bureau Report, India Today.
43:31Okay, it's Ganesh Chaturthi, and I want to wish each and every one of you a happy Ganesh Chaturthi, the
43:36festival of the elephant god, and it is nowhere bigger than in Maharashtra.
43:41But this year, the festival also is seeing some controversy over the use of DJs and disco music during Ganesh
43:49Utsav, often at very loud levels that many citizens say disturbs them.
43:53The Bombay High Court has stepped in and said that the noise levels must be kept down.
43:58The Maharashtra government, too, is acting.
44:00But there are those who are saying public celebrations should not be policed by the state.
44:07Take a look at this report.
44:12Even as Maharashtra gets busy welcoming Ganpati Bappa, the state is divided over the use of DJs and loudspeakers during
44:19the festival.
44:25Vidyanand Bappat and many other activists have been campaigning for a ban on DJs in Pune.
44:30The campaign took an ugly turn recently when Bappat was manhandled by an organizer.
44:36The police had stepped in to lower the tensions then.
44:45They have disallowed the use of some types of speakers.
44:52Meanwhile, the Mumbai police are strictly enforcing a cap of 50 decibels between 10 p.m. and 6 p.m.
44:57during Ganesh Utsav, in accordance with a Bombay High Court order.
45:07Amplified DJ systems, mixers and heavy Dolby setups are completely banned during processions.
45:15Authorities encourage traditional instruments like Dhol Tasha instead.
45:35On the ground, devotees have mixed opinions on the issue.
46:02Ganesh Mandals in Mumbai can use loudspeakers and amplifiers from 6 a.m. to midnight on four designated immersions.
46:08September 15th, 18th, 19th and 25th.
46:12The High Court in August 2016 had directed the implementation of the noise pollution regulation and control rules of 2000.
46:20According to that order, the sound limit has to be kept below 60 decibels in residential areas.
46:26With Mustafa Sheikh and Omkar Wabli, Bureau Report, India Today.
46:33Okay, so should we be stopping or should governments be banning the use of DJs and loud music during Ganesh
46:41Utsav or is that part of a public celebration?
46:44Joining me now is the person who's triggered that massive debate in Maharashtra.
46:49Vidyanand Bapat, he's a resident of Pune, he's someone who's been taking a campaign on this and was even physically
46:55attacked for taking on that campaign last week.
46:58Good to have you, Mr. Bapat, on the show.
47:00You've been campaigning against the use of DJs, loudspeakers, even the Dhol Tasha during Ganesh Utsav.
47:07And there will be those who will say festivals are meant to be public celebrations.
47:11You cannot now put these kind of restrictions on the way festivals are celebrated.
47:19No, this argument seems ridiculous because in today's times, all these public festivals have become a cause of the public
47:27nuisance.
47:28And there is no tangible benefit which is seen by celebrating festivals at places, especially streets.
47:37So if they want to celebrate this on the ground, on soundproofed auditoriums, then that's okay.
47:46But if they are about to celebrate it on the streets, then it will become only the cause of the
47:51news for evidence of the public exit.
47:58But already, Mr. Bapat, the government has said that there will be restrictions on the use of DJs, for example.
48:05But the Dhol Tasha, there are some traditional ways in which you celebrate, particularly on the big days of immersion.
48:12The first big day will be tomorrow.
48:14On those days, the Dhol is part of the celebration.
48:17So some amount of noise, according to...
48:20There will be those who say some amount of noise is part of Ganesh Utsav.
48:27Yes, traditionally, it might be the case that playing off a tradition, such as the Antasha's, might be part of
48:36any festival celebration.
48:38But in today's times, our style changed the lot.
48:42We work 24 by 7 because we work for US, UK and Australia based clients.
48:47And since last few years, we are working from, so the demarked line with resident industrial and commercial areas have
48:55been blurred.
48:56So it causes a lot of nuisance to all IT and ITA sector employees who are working from, and they
49:04are working 24 by 7.
49:06So even if it is a tradition, should now be discovered, just like discontinued the Sati tradition, then child rights
49:13tradition, and we have traditions which were violating the rights of racism to live, to live, and...
49:25No, no, but you see, if the principle is one person's celebration is becoming another person's nuisance, where do you
49:33draw the lines?
49:34And who will draw the lines?
49:35I mean, the fact is, forget about Ganesh Utsav.
49:37We have weddings that are celebrated loudly.
49:40There's so much of urban noise around us in almost every festival.
49:43Who is going to draw the line?
49:45Who is going to say, this celebration which you are doing has crossed the limit, it is becoming a nuisance?
49:50Who should decide that?
49:53There is an objective criteria, we can say, any artificial sound amplifying equipment.
50:00So as long as there is no use of any artificial sound amplifying equipment, whether it's electronic or one being
50:07operated manually, such as Doha and Tasha,
50:10it can be called a peaceful celebration, but if there is a use of simplifying equipment, manual or electronic, then
50:18we can call it a celebration.
50:21No, but who will decide it?
50:23No, no, but Mr. Bapad, who will decide?
50:26No, no, Mr. Bapad, who will decide it?
50:28Who decides?
50:29Does the government, does the police decide?
50:31Does a society, if you are a cooperative society, do the members decide?
50:35Who decides?
50:36In a public celebration like Ganesh Utsav, who should decide that this celebration which is taking place is now a
50:44nuisance?
50:46We all can agree on this objective definition.
50:49As long as there is no use of any artificial sound amplifying equipment, it can be called as peaceful celebration.
50:56And if any such equipment is being used, it can be called noisy.
51:00So that is an objective definition.
51:01We all agree on it.
51:06But, you know, Mr. Bapad, as you've seen, what you've come out with and the campaign you've started has also
51:12triggered opposition to the point where you were physically attacked last week while you were speaking to the media.
51:18Now, does it mean that the moment you start questioning cultural, religious traditions, that you find yourself in a very
51:29dangerous space?
51:29There will be those who will say, who is Mr. Bapad to, in a way, decide how Ganesh Utsav is
51:36to be celebrated?
51:37This has been going on from Lokmania Tilak's times.
51:40And because it's a Hindu, there will even be those Hindutva Vadis who will say, because it's a Hindu festival,
51:45that's why Mr. Bapad is getting away by saying all this.
51:48Would you dare say it about any other community?
51:53Yes, we are openly saying so about all festivals of all religions and not just religious festivals, but any pretext
52:00under which a few people used to make noise pollution and traffic construction.
52:04So, this objection is not tenable, so this objection is not tenable, but I think all institutions are all picks.
52:13And the specific question to the Targa Ganesh festival or Hindu festival is because almost 80% of the population
52:20in India is the one which is denied or certified by law and do.
52:24So, that's the only reason.
52:26And that do not have any specific reasons to target Hindu festivals.
52:35Okay, I'm going to leave it there, Mr. Bapad.
52:38Good to hear you.
52:40As I said, you're giving one perspective to it.
52:42It is a contentious issue, but it's an issue worth debating.
52:45I mean, surely, one has to be very conscious during public celebrations to realize that one person's celebration could well
52:53become someone else's nuisance.
52:55Achieving that kind of balance in many ways is one way to ensure everyone enjoys Ganesh Utsav.
53:03I appreciate you joining us there, Mr. Bapad.
53:07Yes, thanks, Gaurav.
53:09Okay, I want to leave it there because the fact is, it is Ganesh Utsav.
53:14It is a time to celebrate.
53:16It is the Lord who hopefully will remove all obstacles.
53:19I hope you had your modaks, the sweet that is there during Ganesh Utsav.
53:23And I wish all of you peace and prosperity.
53:26I leave you with our images, Sergio Gaur, U.S. ambassador to India, visiting the famous Lalbaqsa Raja in Mumbai.
53:35And also other celebrities out there celebrating Mumbai's and Maharashtra's biggest festival.
53:41Thanks for watching.
53:42You stay well, stay safe.
53:44Good night, Shubhra 3.
53:46Dhanpati Bappa Morya.
53:47Have a great day.
53:48Bye for now.
53:49Namaskar.
53:55Dhanpati Bappa Morya.
54:20Namaskar.
54:21Namaskar.
54:22Namaskar.
54:23Namaskar.
54:24Namaskar.
54:25Namaskar.
54:26Namaskar.
54:27Namaskar.
54:28Namaskar.
54:29Namaskar.
54:30Namaskar.
54:31Namaskar.
54:31Namaskar.
54:32Namaskar.
54:32Namaskar.
54:33Namaskar.
54:34Namaskar.
54:34Namaskar.
54:35Namaskar.
54:36Namaskar.
54:36Namaskar.
54:37Namaskar.
54:38Namaskar.
54:38Namaskar.
54:39Namaskar.
54:39Namaskar.
54:40Namaskar.
54:40Namaskar.
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