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El exdirector de la Agencia Nacional de Tierras ha sido uno de los principales articuladores en los movimientos del Pacto Histórico tras su primer mes de retornar a la oposición. Habló del expresidente Petro y las alianzas con el uribismo en el Congreso
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00:09We welcome all readers of El Espectador to this interview space
00:14Interviews with El Espectador: Thank you so much for tuning in, and today we're here with one of
00:20the officials who resonated the most, who made the biggest splash during the administration of former President Gustavo
00:27Petro spoke about the former director of the national land agency, Felipe Harman, who is now making some moves.
00:33The threads of the historic pact party, Dr. Felipe, welcome to this space. Well, a big hug to
00:39Thank you all. Well, let's talk about the most recent things. Let's go from the most recent to the...
00:45oldest and let's start precisely with the role you are currently playing within the
00:51historic pact because we have heard that it is moving precisely within the party's leadership
00:56There's no need to exaggerate; I believe that at this moment I have certain delegated political responsibilities.
01:03I often have a very good relationship with the caucus thanks to my colleague Gustavo Petro, and
01:10specific responsibilities that have been processed in this month and a half of parliament
01:17But I am an active member of the political force; I am convinced of its vision for the country; I believe that
01:23We need to do some serious internal reflection on what the government meant, but the most important thing is...
01:28It is important to continue in political activity, organizing people and giving them hope.
01:32to that Colombian people who somehow feel identified with the
01:38transformations that have taken place over the last four years at this moment that we are recording
01:42It's exactly one month since the Esprilla government took office, and I want to ask you how that has been.
01:48transition or rather that return of the center-left, however you want to see it, to the opposition
01:55Taking into account that they had just come from four years of government with Petro as president, I
02:00I think we have a huge challenge; the huge challenge is not to rebuild a framework that...
02:05The opposition is the same opposition we used to have, like during Uribe's government.
02:11From Juan Manuel Santos's perspective, today we have to take a huge qualitative leap; we have to refresh the language
02:17and communications, the ways in which we address Colombians, but we also have to
02:22to build very serious and very solid foundations of what organization and mobilization mean
02:27social without forgetting that there are other social sectors that I believe may even be part of an oversight
02:33that we had in his government who identify as aspirational middle class that must somehow
02:39This also offers a range of alternatives and proposals to address the deepening of the
02:44The country's democratic transformation is the substantial challenge we face: to take a qualitative leap.
02:49As the leading political force in Colombia, what was or is your interpretation of it?
02:57rather from their campaign mistakes because in the end they lost by less than 300,000 votes
03:02They distanced themselves from Abelard of the Espriella, who failed during the construction of the campaign for
03:08To re-elect the left-wing project, I think we made campaign mistakes, we even made mistakes in
03:13I believe the government needs to engage in internal critical reflection, but from the outside, today it's about
03:20Essentially, it's about having a left wing that speaks to the country, that talks to the different political forces.
03:26Colombian policies that never renounce the consolidation of a national agreement that we can
03:32to make substantial progress in a democratic founding congress with broad participation from the grassroots
03:37and that the person on foot who is the community leader of the path who is the community leader of the
03:42neighborhood
03:42that he feels identified and recognized within the party structure, that is the most important thing and
03:48Today's priority is to make that deep reflection, I think those reflections, I repeat, I insist, are not
03:54These decisions, not only for campaigns but also for government, must be made internally, and to that extent, they must be made out.
03:59solid to consolidate this political force at the national level precisely how they are organizing there
04:05You speak of a congress that I understand will be like that instance where the guidelines are already set for
04:11the 2027 elections, but how is everything moving before that whole process, and well, it
04:18I'm also asking because you're a little behind all that articulation. Well, today there's going to be a
04:23A very important caucus meeting, I believe, is the call to hold that founding congress in which its delegates
04:29be chosen democratically within the framework of a broad, open election that also has all the
04:38Recognition of the bases, we are talking, I repeat, I insist, about a founding congress of the leading force
04:43so in that sense we have to consolidate a commitment that is as democratic as possible.
04:48as deliberate as possible, but with a serious strategic plan to build local power for
04:54to consolidate ourselves and somehow merge with a social movement that is also demanding today
05:01The track is asking for a line in the face of very specific situations in the national context.
05:06Okay, and the million-dollar question is: what role will Gustavo Petro play in that congress and in this party?
05:13It's going to be
05:14Our top leader as a political collective, there is no doubt about that, from there on it
05:20They will develop the necessary and sufficient structure to have a party of the size that
05:26We understand, but here nothing will be done except react to the work and actions of
05:33current government but also to build different and distinct proposals and alternatives with the people I believe
05:38that we can never give up on, and that is more the proactive task we want to develop from the
05:44historic pact today, but then let's say Petro is going to be its political leader, the political leader of the pact.
05:53What role or what place will Iván Cepeda, who is, let's say, the senator you have, occupy then?
06:01via
06:01opposition statute and that in the last elections it received 12.67 million votes and
06:08Iván is and will continue to be an important figure in the party; he is an ethical and moral role model for the party.
06:15Indeed, the process of the founding congress is what will direct or choose the
06:22national leadership, departmental leadership, and a roadmap with a serious alliance policy
06:28To be a local power, I think that today the country is proposing more spaces for the construction of
06:35proposals spaces for us to speak to Colombia spaces for our alliance policy not
06:40not only limiting ourselves to those of us who work within the government framework, but also opening ourselves up much more.
06:45I believe that today the challenge we have as a political force is the responsibility to be open.
06:52greater that allows us to build and consolidate consensus among different groups to safeguard the
06:59Democracy, which in our opinion is in serious danger under this government, has been...
07:05Having spoken a little about division on the left, you can see this in the first month, the first few months of
07:14I believe that this return to opposition means that the left is a deliberative political project.
07:19A passionate, controversial figure who genuinely holds opposing views that fascinate people.
07:25Discussing them is certainly true here, except for other parties that are simply united by collusion and so on.
07:34Well, everything here generates a passion and an impetus that I think is important, rather.
07:41to catalyze those scenarios within an important space that will be the congress where they are resolved
07:47democratically address its contradictions, that the party leadership should be based on core principles and principles
07:52strategic lines of the country and that from there we can continue consolidating this process but
07:58I don't believe, nor could I say, that there are major internal divisions; there will be differences.
08:05conceptual interpretations of the political moment, but that's part of supplying them internally, but with
08:12You have the responsibility of what it means to lead the country's leading political force.
08:17Several open fronts: not to oppose, to defend the reforms or the legacy of Gustavo Petro via
08:25Congress, and well, let's say the different forms they seek to adopt and that they have already adopted, but also
08:32They are targeting him, and we have mentioned him briefly in those regional elections of 2027.
08:37What exactly are you targeting, or which cities/departments are you specifically targeting?
08:45We are the leading political force in the country and we want to be the main political force in the
08:51territorial to do so is not only about looking inward as a pact with all our
08:56capacity for electoral mobilization, but also being with others, we must speak from the alliance for life
09:02with other political sectors, with other agreements within the framework of a broad front also for the
09:07democracy in this country, and I am completely sure that beyond simply those of the
09:13territories where we believe we did very well in the presidential election we can do
09:18bets so that within the country we improve our correlation, also being with others
09:24By organizing conversations with other political sectors, speaking under different dynamics, I believe that
09:30Indeed, today we are open to that political capital that we built in the presidential elections.
09:37build a better correlation that guarantees people's rights in governments
09:42departmental and local because do you think the map of the presidential elections was painted Pacific coast and
09:50Part of the south of the purple Iván Cepeda, but the center and the northwest, a little of the northeast, sorry
09:59a
09:59It was little by little, then, tinged with the orange of the folds; I think it's part of a political culture that is
10:05ha
10:05Built into the history of Colombia, we practically saw that, you say the plebiscite, the scenarios of
10:13President Gustavo Petro's presidential campaigns... well, everything has been happening more or less...
10:18a process that has been underway since 2010, in which that matrix of culture is being configured.
10:24politics of our regions now I think today there is a great opportunity because we have
10:30has been consolidating not only as a political force but also with the decision and the will to be
10:35talking to others and speaking with other expressions with whom we didn't speak before is essentially about that
10:40We want to talk with progressive sectors, with centrist sectors, with liberal sectors.
10:46to talk with political sectors of different kinds on regional initiatives that allow us to coordinate.
10:52But first, getting our house in order, and getting our house in order means arriving at a consolidated congress.
10:57in which our natural base, our leadership, and our activists have a place, but that
11:02We believe that the geographical division of the political geography of Colombia will change, and it will change.
11:09substantially with a serious commitment to local organization to also strengthen the
11:15Leadership within the country will have much more weight in the Andean region and much more in this
11:21territorial work in Antioquia and in other departments where, in the last
11:27The competition didn't go so well for us, well, we've been active for a month now, as I mentioned earlier.
11:32a period of considerable political activity, especially in Congress, with many elections against the polling stations.
11:40directives from the president of the Senate and there arose a phrase from Petro Uribismo: Petro Uribismo already exists
11:48No, I believe that the conversations with the Democratic Center have been frank, open, and in
11:55The framework of our great difference is neither Uribismo, which has renounced its ideological platform, nor Petrismo
12:02Having renounced his ideological platform, the thing is that without renouncing our differences we can
12:08finding common ground as a basic matter the separation of powers as a basic matter
12:16respect for the dignity of Congress as a fundamental issue, autonomy, and care for what
12:22The rule of law means that these basic issues enable us to put ourselves in a position to...
12:28We agree tactically, but that doesn't mean we're merging into one party, nor that we are...
12:33This is not, by any means, a pact for impunity, nor does it have to
12:37see
12:38with the cases that President Uribá or President Petro have pending in the commission
12:46not accusations, but rather a constructive dialogue amidst the differences and amidst
12:51Through the mechanisms they involve, we can build temporary consensus on issues
12:57very specific, hence the doubt you mentioned about respect for institutions.
13:04the separation of powers, but it is those two points that were heavily criticized about former president Petro
13:11Don't you remember those strong clashes you had with several presidents of Congress back then?
13:16How can we land right now, whether in campaign or government? We had those differences.
13:23You could even say there was quite a strong clash, but right now we are defending the institutions.
13:29I believe that, apart from the fact that we have to do an internal reflection on what happened in our development
13:38with the Colombian institutions, that is, we need to engage in self-critical reflection, I think that too
13:44We must openly state that our political behavior is not necessarily limited to what
13:50Whatever the government of President Petro may have done or not done, today the situation is different, today the circumstances and
13:57The circumstances are different, and whether or not we made mistakes in government at the time is another matter.
14:02Whether we had controversies or not, it's not going to reduce the political scope we have today, and
14:07responsibility that we have as the leading political force, now, while it is true that we
14:13We had substantial differences with Congress because there is an element that we put on the
14:20table always and we will be supporting the progress of democratic transformations of
14:27country and if that means Abelard or that or on the contrary that we have a tactical agreement
14:35We have no problem discussing a specific situation with the legal system for a particular case.
14:42In other words, today, as a political force, we have every possibility of talking with all the forces.
14:48policies of this country, even within the framework of consensuses that transcend our differences, I'm going to give you a
14:55For example, due to circumstances associated with the earthquake, even the government itself should convene a
15:04I call upon all political forces, including ourselves, to consolidate the basis of a national agreement that
15:10lead the self-build program, lead the reconstruction program, that is, we are not
15:17A closed, sectarian left wing that only talks amongst itself; we don't want to talk to the country, we want to
15:24We are open to speaking with the country, with the country's political sectors, and we are open to generating those [methods/actions].
15:29developments, that's precisely what I wanted to ask you about, amidst all this earthquake situation
15:36which in the end will be a juncture that took over a large part of the government whose proposals were
15:42thinking, or have you thought about, or have you already presented, precisely for the reconstruction of those
15:47territories, also considering that many of those territories have a very strong and very marked political force
15:53It's important that today we're talking about precisely that; we want to make the broadest possible call to organizations
15:58From grassroots organizations to community action boards to community councils, absolutely all organizations
16:04For the peasant women of those regions, this purpose is very important in order to build a proposal
16:09from the popular field, from the popular sector that brings together what the proposals and ideas have to be
16:16Main roads for reconstruction, why? Because you can't rebuild if you don't know how it was built
16:22clear
16:23I'm going to give you a specific example.
16:26Quibdó is a city in Colombia where 83% of the construction was done through self-construction.
16:31So I can't think that it's under the traditional model of my house and Camacol that it
16:36I'm going to rebuild
16:37I have to understand that it is its popular base and the form of popular organization that effectively
16:43It can concretely resolve the reconstruction issues, but it is very important that the country...
16:50Focus on this; we're talking about 481 affected municipalities, and it's very important that we can embrace
16:57the people of Buenaventura that we can build with their community organizations, which is what we did
17:04the government's plan to empower the Community Education Board to execute public resources
17:08for community councils that will directly manage public resources that we can
17:12to find there a window of opportunity for reconstruction we are officially going to
17:16We will develop a proposal, we will present it to the country, we will hold hearings
17:21with the social organizations of these territories and from there we want to put it into dialogue with the
17:28other initiatives that the different forces and sectors of Colombian society may have
17:32And how to make sure that was heard by the president, for example?
17:36I hope that in a democracy, those who currently hold power can, in due course.
17:43Executives listen to all sectors, especially those with significant recognition; no, it's not about...
17:50The point is not to recognize either governors or mayors, which is indeed the basic expression of
17:56State power, popular power, the power of the people, which must indeed be listened to, and today we are not.
18:02I think that's the substantial challenge in reconstruction programs.
18:07Well, going to his management at the ANT, because that's precisely one of the major issues he seeks to defend.
18:16he
18:16The project of the historic pact is the issue of agrarian reform, the handover of land first if desired.
18:22Please give me a brief summary of what you accomplished during your several years in office; we're talking about a
18:27self-management of 700,000 hectares of the effective delivery of more than 360,000 hectares of the titling of more than
18:34a
18:34One million eight hundred thousand hectares, those are some of the management links to put it in
18:40Numbers that are certain beyond the specific conditions of each of them have now been discussed a lot
18:46precisely that in that administration there was no or that in that delivery papers were missing, documentation was missing, one or not
18:54There was proper titling of the "chimbo" bridge of the vice president of the republic of this gentleman is that
19:02Because the final title was not secured, there was no agrarian reform.
19:08That is absolutely controversial for several reasons, the first of which is because we, who are we...
19:15We bought those properties as a whole from two state entities, not from one entity in particular.
19:21The state that calls the SAE and another state entity that is the reparations fund and around them
19:26These two agreements are received by the current administration, meaning they are the ones who will have to implement them.
19:35Those responsible for finalizing those real estate deals are the heads of those government entities.
19:41of the species, and there I do have a concern; my first concern is that they have just
19:47I have to put lawyers from the firm of that type in both the SAE and the victims' unit, and I have
19:54that
19:54concern for a specific reason when we see the intertwining of mafia powers that
20:00They are found in the SAE and are in the repair fund. What worries us is that this
20:06An anticipated critique of the two agreements is an effort to hand that land back to them, and that makes us
20:12This is concerning, and we want to make it public because of what it means; everyone here knows the relationship.
20:19For example, a man known as Barbe had a conversation with Mr. Abelardo de las Priegas; we...
20:26We took away three estates, they want to return them to Barbe, they're putting on this whole charade for
20:32Returning them to Barbe, that is the concrete task of which the peasant movement and we, from
20:37Outside, as civil society, we have to monitor and make visible; well, that's one of the big pending issues.
20:44Within this framework of the agrarian reform promoted by the Petro government, the jurisdiction
20:48Ultimately, those legal foundations were not established in the agricultural sector, and there is also a gap there, or if a
20:56The gap that you have to fill through Congress, what will happen with that project if taking into account
21:02that the majorities, not being in government, could not be consolidated for that last one
21:07debate and right now the majority is held by the Abelardo de las Priegas government, remember that
21:12There is a ruling from the Constitutional Court in a lawsuit I filed that told them yes or no in
21:17In 2027 there is agrarian jurisdiction or with the contentious administrative procedure or with the
21:26approval of its ordinary law, that is, there is already a court order, the substantial challenge that it has
21:32The Superior Council of the Judiciary will have to determine how it will structure and convene from the outset.
21:37By 2027, the functioning of the jurisdiction will no longer depend substantially on
21:42Congress also depends on other branches of government; the key and essential thing is that it is fulfilled.
21:47that ruling and that we can move forward with the protection in what that process clearly implies.
21:54It is important to establish a structure of agrarian judges that will progress and overcome that enormous
22:02Debt to the agricultural sector, technically speaking, could be said to mean that next year, in one way or another, this will be the case.
22:08is
22:08We are going to have, or a substantial advance is being made on the issue of agrarian jurisdiction, I understand.
22:15Well, Dr. Harman, I don't even know if I should leave one last message for our audiences before closing this space.
22:22or openly state that we are going to the congress of the historic pact that we are convinced will be
22:29a serious proposal for strengthening the progressive political project that we clearly need
22:36to make sufficient and necessary reflections to correct difficulties and errors, but that
22:41Indeed, today that political force, which is the largest in the country, the biggest in the country, cannot lose its
22:47perspective of political power and send that message to the grassroots of unity and political action
22:52concrete steps to sustain not only the transformations we made but to deepen them
22:57through the articulation and unity of the people, well again, thank you very much, Dr. Harman, for
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