- 2 months ago
- #considerthis
A new report by the Bruno Manser Fonds has revealed how the Upper Baram Forest Area, which is a conservation project for some of the last remaining primary rainforests in Sarawak, was terminated, and is now the site of logging under a timber concession. On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Dominic Langat, Kenyah Community Member from Long Siut, and Celine Lim, Managing Director of SAVE Rivers, and Jessica Merriman, Project and Campaign Coordinator at The Borneo Project.
UPDATE: The Forest Department Sarawak has responded to the Bruno Manser Fonds report, strongly rejecting the report’s allegations and describing its account as “selective and misleading”. The Sarawak State Government says it remains committed to balancing forest conservation, socio-economic development and the well-being of Upper Baram communities.
UPDATE: The Forest Department Sarawak has responded to the Bruno Manser Fonds report, strongly rejecting the report’s allegations and describing its account as “selective and misleading”. The Sarawak State Government says it remains committed to balancing forest conservation, socio-economic development and the well-being of Upper Baram communities.
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NewsTranscript
00:10Hello and good evening, I'm Melissa Adres. Welcome to Consider This. This is the show
00:15where we want you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of the day. A new
00:19report by the Bruno Manser Funds has revealed how the Upper Baram Forest area, which was a
00:26conservation project for some of Sarawak's last remaining primary rainforests, has been
00:34terminated and is now the site of logging under a timber concession. Joining us on the show today
00:41to tell us what exactly is, what they're seeing on the ground, I have with me Dominic Langat,
00:48who is a Kenya Community Member from Long Siot. I also have Celine Lim, who is Managing Director
00:55of Save Rivers, which is a grassroots NGO based in Sarawak that advocates for the rights of
01:00Indigenous communities, especially in relation to land rights and environmental protection.
01:06And lastly, but last but not least, we have Jessica Merriman, who is the Project and Campaign
01:11Coordinator at the Borneo Project, which has been supporting Indigenous-led campaigns in
01:17Sarawak for over 30 years. Welcome to the show. It's so good to see so many faces on set with
01:22me today. We've got something really important to talk about and I want to begin with you,
01:26Celine, if I may. For the viewers today who may have never heard about the Upper Baram Forest area
01:33or the Baram Peace Park, could you maybe begin by telling us what the, what was the original vision
01:40and what is it today? Probably I could start from the very beginning. So it was in 2009 where we
01:49had
01:49an amazing group of Penan elders coming together and conceptualising the idea of conserving,
01:58protecting some of the last remaining primary rainforests in the area. So probably my colleague
02:05will tell you a little bit more later about the project and so on. But the idea here was
02:11how would it look like if we were able to bring this concept even to the government,
02:19think of co-managing it together, co-governance. Then from Penan Peace Park, when it's original name,
02:26it then became Baram Peace Park because we wanted it to not just be the Penan but it also brings
02:34in the
02:35Kelabit, the Kenyah and the Saban. Then from the Baram Peace Park as we met with decision makers of the
02:42state,
02:42proposed the idea. Then the, then the next name was the Upper Baram Forest area. But the concept was very,
02:51it remained, which was this beautiful, amazing area with a 79,000 hectare of cluster of rainfall, primary rainforests was
03:03to be preserved, conserved. And we wanted to do it together with the government. We wanted to do it together
03:08with the forestry department or any other stakeholders that,
03:12that we were able to reach out to that can help us in this vision of protecting the rainforest. But
03:19why is it such an important part for us was for us as forest dependent community. We are nothing without
03:26the forest.
03:28So this is our identity. It is our culture. So it's not just a project per se, but it is
03:36in its essence, our life, who we are. And we wanted to share that part of us, even with all
03:42the different stakeholders that wanted to be a part of the project.
03:45So the vision was community led and conservation. So how is it that today in 2026, there is an active
03:54timber concession in that area and timber extraction happening?
04:00Part of the report will actually touch a lot on that. So in fact, the whole chronology report or the
04:08gist of the report is to talk about how did an original co-governance,
04:13community led conservation effort all of a sudden change into a logging concession activities and so on.
04:23There's a lot to expound on that in particular, but I will say one of the struggle that we had
04:33and the challenge that we had was when it comes to transparency of processes.
04:38Although we were there present in the project steering committee, there were a lot of details that were not necessarily
04:47very openly shared.
04:49So even the question of how it came to change from a conservation project to a logging concession.
04:58There were many parts of these processes we were not made aware of until, yeah, as you read the report,
05:08you will find out.
05:09I would encourage everyone to download the report, which is available on the Bruno Manta Fund's website.
05:15It's readily available and an illuminating read, I might say. May I come to you, Uncle Dominic? Uncle, can you
05:23tell me what you are seeing in your village, in your homes?
05:29What have you seen? What have you seen? What has changed in the last few years?
05:33Well, when the community agreed with the proposed Ulubaram forest area, all the communities and the villages within that area,
05:50they feel that they are very, very happy that, you know, their forest and their, what do you call it,
06:02territory.
06:03It's already, maybe you can say it's something, it's going to be conserved.
06:11Okay, so a good thing.
06:13Yes, so it's a good thing for the community. Until recently, especially from the Kenya Ethnic, we were really, you
06:27know, we were not being informed that the timber license have been,
06:33given to the company that which we really, we really not suspect.
06:46Okay.
06:46So, tiba-tiba ada company datang dan ada pembalakan di kawasan kampung Uncle Dominic?
06:54Ya, pada akhir tahun 2024, tiba-tiba orang beritahu ada company pembalakan masuk. Tapi yang bagian kami kenya, kami hanya
07:11diberitahu mereka akan membalak di kawasan penan di sebelah Selahan saja.
07:18Okay.
07:18Okay.
07:19Jadi, mulai tahun ini, mereka masuk di sebelah ulu kawasan tadahana air kami, Kampung Long Siut.
07:29Jadi, apabila kami ada yang menggunakan, pakai pink dot kami kata forest wash itu, jadi kami dapat nampak yang mereka
07:45ini makin lama makin mendekati kepada kawasan tadahana air kami.
07:50Jadi, kami merasa sangat risau. Jadi, kami cuba cari jalan untuk tidak membiarkan mereka masuk. Jadi, kami simpan signboard yang
08:07mengatakan ini kawasan tadahan air.
08:10Tapi, dalam selang tiga bulan, mereka makin masuk lagi. Jadi, kami pun cuba lagi menghalang mereka, tapi kami telah dihalang
08:27untuk memasuki kawasan itu, kawasan tadahana air kami itu.
08:32Kerana mereka simpan satu, buat satu gate di sana. Jadi, kami tidak dapat limpas untuk pergi to check on our
08:43water catchment area.
08:46So, kami terpaksa buat banner dekat gate itu, sebab kami tidak dapat masuk, yang meminta mereka berhenti menabang pokok ataupun
09:01memasuki kawasan itu, sampai kami membenarkan mereka masuk.
09:10Jadi, satu malam, kalau saya tidak silap, apabila selepas kami pasang itu banner di sana, signboard semua kan, dekat gate
09:25itu, kami diberitahu banner itu telah dibuang, dibuka oleh orang kampung sendiri,
09:34yang jiran kami yang jiran kami. Dari kawasan Muboy, dari orang kampung penan Muboy, Kenyal, Longselaan.
09:44Jadi, saya pun sangat heranlah kenapa bangsa sendiri pun boleh jadi membuat kerja yang beginilah.
09:57Sebab sebelum ini, sebelum ada kompani kan, kami sangat bersatu dari segi bantu-membantu kampung.
10:06Ada antara kampung-kampung semua itu, ada yang sokong, ada yang tak sokong ke?
10:12Ya, ya. Itulah dia sekarang ini.
10:15Kami diberitahu, segelintir orang penan ini sokong kompani ini, begitu juga orang kenyal.
10:25Jadi, kami pun tidak tahu macam mana syarat mereka menyokong itu, apakah benefit mereka menyokong, kami pun tidak tahu.
10:39Tapi sedih sebab dah berpecah belah, kan?
10:41Ya, sangat berpecah belah sekarang.
10:44Ya, faham. May I bring Jessica into the conversation?
10:47Jessica, through this report, because it's been a few years in the making,
10:53what was the kind of, I guess, surprise finding, or even what confirmed,
10:59what did you learn through this report that you have been seeing on the ground,
11:03working with Indigenous-led campaigns?
11:07Talk to me a little bit about the role of foreign or international groups and NGOs
11:13like the Borneo Project in supporting the resistance of the fight or the struggle to protect primary rainforests.
11:25So, communities in Sarawak have a long history of resistance and of defending their native territorial domains.
11:33What we, as international organizations, can provide is just a small amount of, let's say, political cover and protection.
11:44As Uncle Dominik was just saying, there are a lot of conflicts that arise, even at the kampong level,
11:51between residents, between communities, between residents and the company.
11:57And so, a lot of residents are often put at real physical risk when they attempt to resist the incursion
12:07of companies like this
12:08into their customary territories.
12:10Not only that, but organizations on the ground in Sarawak also are often villainized by local government.
12:19And our role as international organizations is to try to, if we can, maybe take some of the heat
12:28off of the individuals on the ground and the individuals working to support communities
12:33by providing ourselves as an international witness, as a sort of safety net for those who are maybe less able
12:45to speak out safely.
12:48Selene, can you talk to me about what was interesting in the report was how much information was in there?
12:56But talk to me about what information is not in there?
12:59What information is missing?
13:01What information is unavailable?
13:02You mentioned, alluded to earlier that there really was a lack of transparency in, I guess,
13:09even following the money trail or learning about how the concession was awarded
13:14or even knowing what happened with the structure of the Upper Baram Forest area.
13:19Tell us what you've learned in your advocacy and your activism about the lack of information.
13:28Sure.
13:30I would probably use our experience again as part of the Project Stirring Committee.
13:35And when we said yes to being a member of the PSC, it was done with much optimism and hope.
13:46In fact, we thought this would be one of the most innovative way of actually strengthening,
13:53together with the different government representatives and the community,
13:59of managing some of these most beautiful, amazing places.
14:05And being part of the PSC, I know that we have tried to practice a lot of openness,
14:12even in the conversations and so on.
14:15But we realised later, when we started asking questions, although we said that this was a conservation project,
14:26then it became like a logging concession.
14:29I must also add, in the very beginning, there was already a company that was working prior to this other
14:36company
14:36that stepped in and the logging licence expired.
14:41Now, when a logging licence expired, there is a need to have a public, open tender process
14:48in regards to whoever the new licence holder will be.
14:53We realised later that this process was never conducted, at least it was never disclosed to the public.
15:01And again, us that's being a part of the PSC that is actively involved and reminding people that we want
15:14to be actively involved, right?
15:17Then realising even, again, when this exchange happened, we didn't know this was happening.
15:24And we go back again to why we bought into this project in the very beginning was,
15:30we know that there was this thing called the core zone or the buffer zone.
15:34So this buffer zone, again, was the 79,000 cluster, hectares, clusters of primary rainforests,
15:41which we say will be excised from any extractivism activities.
15:51Then pandemic happened, back and forth, the next time we met together with a lot of the decision makers,
15:59they have changed the objective of the project without consulting us who is in the PSC.
16:06And one of the things, and the thing that was changed was because Sarawak now practises sustainable forest management,
16:15therefore there was no need to excise this 79,000 hectares of primary rainforests
16:22because the framework of SFM is enough to ensure that sustainability is practised.
16:31And the thing here is we bought it into the project because knowing that this area would be excised,
16:38that was our non-negotiable.
16:40That was the thinking, right? It was going to be protected.
16:42That's what every one of us bought into. We said yes to the project.
16:46Because it was going to be protected.
16:48So when you remove this very core purpose of the project, what else do we have?
16:54And you're not assured or your concerns are not allayed by the sustainable forest management label, no?
17:03Yes.
17:03Do you feel like the sustainable forest management rationale is sufficient to allay any concerns you might have?
17:13At that point in time, we don't even know a lot about what sustainable forest management was.
17:18What does that even mean?
17:19What does that mean that you are assuring us that that is enough?
17:22We needed to do a lot of even our own research and understanding.
17:28Oh, like this is the whole line of sustainable forest management, Malaysian timber certification scheme.
17:34So these were things that we had to learn from scratch just because it happened to the project and directly
17:43impacting us.
17:45So back and forth, at the end of the day, yeah, the core purpose of the project for us has
17:53changed.
17:53Okay.
17:54But again, there was a lot of buy-in and fanfare and engagement that we were doing on the ground.
18:00Yeah.
18:01And we also still wanted to continue to probably give the benefit of a doubt in regards to that.
18:07But the more we asked questions, the more we realized there were many information that was not made available to
18:15us.
18:15In fact, it was very hard for us to inquire, you know, who is this next license holder were, what
18:23were your processes and so on.
18:25And it was not until we had a judicial review that was filed by our Penan community, did we realize
18:35that this particular license holder was granted the license at a time where they denied that there was a long
18:45-term logging.
18:46So you wouldn't even have known.
18:47If it wasn't for the judicial review.
18:50If it wasn't for the judicial review, you wouldn't have known that there was a timber concession that was awarded.
18:54Yes.
18:55Jessica, do we know where the logs go once they leave the forest?
19:00Yeah.
19:00So to add to Celine's comments on the sustainable forest management aspect, I mean, in the first place, since the
19:081980s, when the timber boom began in Sarawak, more than 90% of its primary rainforest has been disturbed or
19:15cut down completely.
19:17Nine zero?
19:1890%.
19:18So this means that less than 10% of its primary rainforest remains intact.
19:24When you have less than 10% of a primary forest left, no amount of logging in native primary rainforest
19:35can possibly be considered sustainable.
19:37And what we're seeing now is community monitors who are from the areas most critically affected by this concession at
19:45the moment have documented that more than 5,000 tons of timber are leaving the area every month.
19:51Wow.
19:51This timber is valued at almost $2.6 million per month.
19:57Communities on the ground, those who have been able to negotiate some level of buy-in with the company are
20:03receiving a mere fraction of these profits.
20:05And they have been able to capture that this timber is being delivered to Sinyang Company.
20:15Now, we have not been able to confirm whether this timber is then being sold by Sinyang.
20:23Sinyang is a saw mill.
20:25So Sinyang is a major timber company that has been operating in Sarawak for decades.
20:30It's one of the big six timber companies.
20:33Because of the complete lack of transparency in the supply chain, we have not been able to confirm that this
20:39timber is then being sold by Sinyang into the international market.
20:42But community monitors have been able to establish that this timber is being delivered to Sinyang-owned mills.
20:50Do you think that it's leaving the country? Do you think it's in the export market?
20:54It's entirely possible, just as we can't confirm, we can't deny that it is.
21:00Okay.
21:01We know that a majority of the export of Sarawak's timber is going to Japan, which is why we've just
21:07come from Tokyo, where we have also launched this report there in conjunction with our partners and authors, Bruno Manser
21:13Fund.
21:13Uncle Dominic.
21:15Uncle Dominic.
21:16Ada yang mengatakan bahawa kalau orang kampung melawan, kalau orang asal melawan company-company pembalakan ini atau melawan kerajaan, dilabelkan
21:31sebagai anti pembangunan.
21:34Adakah Uncle Dominic rasa itu satu label yang sepatutnya ada?
21:39Macam mana, how do you see Uncle Dominic the issue of logging in primary rainforest?
21:48Itu kehidupan untuk community Uncle Dominic?
21:53Ya.
21:53Bagi saya, logging ataupun pembalakan ini adalah satu yang really touch your personal rights.
22:09So, whether you agree or not, it's your right to decide whether you want or not.
22:15So, if you feel that you are benefited or something beneficial to you, okay, no problem.
22:21But for the majority of the communities who rely on the forest resources for food, for medication, for clean water,
22:33so I think we cannot label them as anti development because they are really depending on the forest resources for
22:43their livelihood.
22:44Angku masih lagi percaya in the vision of the Baram Peace Park, the original vision of conservation and protection?
22:50Ya, masih lagi.
22:51Ya, masih lagi.
22:53Itulah, sampai sekarang kan kami telah merancang beberapa aktiviti di dalam kampung masing-masing yang menyesuaikan UBFA ini mengikut apa
23:06yang kami rancang dalam UBFA ini di mana hutan ini akan diurus oleh community tempatan.
23:15Ya, jadi kami sudah merancang.
23:18Ya, kami sudah merancang ataupun sedang bermula dengan aktiviti seperti persediaan untuk ekotourism.
23:24Ya, ada yang buat forest trail, sudah walking trail semua ini kan untuk tourist.
23:33Begitu juga on transportation, on rivers and all this, sightseeing, all this.
23:39Ya, jadi apabila pembalakan ini sudah masuk, jadi semua ada yang rasa terampal, macam hilang kepercayaan sudah terhadap program ataupun
23:53apa yang telah dipersetujui oleh kerjaan dengan community begini.
24:01Selene, may I end with you, in the time that we have left, tell me very quickly, in a couple
24:06of minutes or so, why is it so important that the community be engaged, be empowered to be part of
24:13this and lead it because this is their life.
24:17What are you seeing and why is it so important? I know you're very passionate about this.
24:21I want to go back to what my counterpart Jessica talked about when she shared that 90% of the
24:29primary rainforest in Sarawak has been blocked and the only remaining 10%, most of it is in indigenous territories.
24:39We are taught in our customary governance that we are part of the environment. What happens to our environment happens
24:49to us. We have a duty to steward, to care and to be responsible to our ecosystem.
24:56We are definitely not the masters of the ecosystem. And again, the fact that these forests still stand today is
25:05because of our people and the adat.
25:08And why is it such an important thing to bring forest protection right smack center of it all now is
25:16because we have the fire in Kalimantan.
25:18We have the planetary crisis that's happening. Climate change is making a lot of this natural disaster even worse than
25:27a few generations ago.
25:30So I want to put it out there again. It is a non-negotiable that forest is important. Taking care
25:38of the last remaining 79,000 hectares of primary rainforest in Upper Baram will impact us who even stay in
25:48the city.
25:48Whether we like it or not, there is a cause and effect that will impact all of us. It is
25:58a collective duty. And for us personally, we are not only protecting the forest because it's within our territories, but
26:07by protecting the forest, literally it's the lungs of the earth.
26:13And if that's a way for me to put it out there that the forest cannot be touched anymore, how
26:21could you touch another remaining 10% when you need it?
26:25The last remaining.
26:26The last remaining.
26:27I want to thank all of you so much for coming on the show and for highlighting this to us.
26:33It's so important and I'm grateful for your time and your insights. Thank you.
26:37That's all the time we have for you on this episode of Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris signing off for
26:42the evening. Thank you so much for watching. Good night.