00:00Sandeep, this is extremely important.
00:04The will, the desire and then going ahead and doing it.
00:09It's remarkable, isn't it, Sandeep?
00:12Absolutely, Gaurav.
00:13You know, and this is things like you pointed out.
00:15This is things that should have been done decades ago.
00:18You know, one, it boggles the mind to realize that all of this was going on for decades.
00:23We didn't build the kind of storage capacities that would even, you know, allow us to take our share of
00:29the industrial water treaty.
00:30You know, Gaurav, we've been through this before.
00:32We know that the IWT is one of the most unequal water treaties anywhere on the planet.
00:38There is no water sharing treaty which gives 80 percent of the water to the lower riparian state and 20
00:44percent to the upper upstream state.
00:47And in our case, we have not even, you know, taken our share of that 20 percent.
00:52And what you've just mentioned is just part of all of that, building up the infrastructure to claim our rightful
00:57share of the Indus Water Treaty, Gaurav.
01:01Absolutely.
01:02So, you need to have the will and you need to be able to deliver.
01:05But Sandeep, is this the first time, and you and I have been covering this from the 1990s,
01:12whether we covered the 1993 blast case verdict or we covered the Kargil war or a series of terror attacks
01:19including 26-11,
01:20is this the first time that in a series of steps, costs are being imposed on a state sponsor of
01:28radical Islamist terror?
01:30The land surgical strikes after Uri, the Balakot airstrikes, Article 370, 5th of August 2019.
01:38And subsequently, you had two more important steps.
01:42One, Operation Sindur.
01:43Two, Indus Water Treaty being held in abeyance.
01:47It's almost now going for Pakistan's juggler.
01:50Absolutely, Gaurav.
01:51You know, Gaurav, that half-hour rampage by the Indian Air Force on the 10th of May,
01:56which completely shook Pakistan and scattered the Air Force, destroyed their air bases,
02:02you can say that the kind of damage that was caused on Pakistan's military infrastructure,
02:07that was the bill that they had to pay for supporting the terror infrastructure.
02:12That happened in a matter of, you know, a couple of minutes.
02:15Now, the other big cost is the questions that are going to be asked because of the Indus Water Treaty
02:21being held in abeyance.
02:22The fact is that the lens is now shifted on to Pakistan's mismanagement of the Indus Water Treaty, Gaurav.
02:29I mean, they have had the most bountiful share of the river waters.
02:33They have not built reservoir capacity.
02:36They have one of the poorest water storage anywhere on the planet, Gaurav.
02:40They have something like 30 to 90 days of water storage capacity as opposed to a desired storage capacity of
02:48300 days.
02:50And even the Mangala Dam that they built was built with our money.
02:53The canal that they built has been built with Indian money.
02:57I mean, despite that, they were spreading terror in our country.
03:00Now that costs are being imposed on Pakistan, there is little that Pakistan can do.
03:04And, you know, one more important aspect that I want to discuss very briefly, the last 30 seconds I have
03:08on this part of the show.
03:10For decades, Sandeep, the entire onus was on India.
03:14That, oh, Pakistanis are coming.
03:15We need to talk to Pakistan.
03:17We need to talk to Pakistan.
03:18And all conversation is about our Kashmir.
03:21Entire Kashmir is ours.
03:22But now, the entire onus is, if any conversation with Pakistan, it will be on retaking Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.
03:30So, that game has so strategically shifted post-2014.
03:34And that message is also clear.
03:36That no longer Pakistan is, no longer is Pakistan putting us on the back foot.
03:41Pakistan is on the back foot.
03:43Absolutely, Gaurav.
03:44And that, you know, the whole game has now shifted westward.
03:47It's gone into Pakistan.
03:48And, you know, given the kind of economic troubles that they are in, PO, JK is in flames.
03:54Balochistan, we know what's going on there.
03:56Khaibar Paktoonkwa is spinning out of control.
03:58Every part of Pakistan, but for Pakistan's Punjab province, is up in arms.
04:04You know, the economy is in shambles.
04:07All they have is the symbolic photo opportunities that they, you know, get with Trump, with, at the SCO, all
04:15of this.
04:15Can it pay the bills, Gaurav?
04:17That's the big question that we should be asking now.
04:20And you've taken the pleasure out of their photo cropping also.
04:23I mean, that's also no longer with Pakistan.
04:25Mecca agreement is also in doldrums.
04:27Trump is also no longer meeting them because Pakistan over-promised and under-delivered.
04:32So, you know, clearly no Acche Din for Pakistan.
04:34And that's a story we'll be tracking very closely.
04:36Sandeep, for the moment, many thanks for joining me.
