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Legal battle exposes social media's dark side and impact on youth. Based on Bloomberg reporting, follows law center fighting for families whose children were harmed by tech companies' algorithms and negligence.
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00:00:13O que é isso?
00:00:31O que é isso?
00:01:00O que é isso?
00:01:02O que é isso?
00:01:09O que é isso?
00:01:10O que é isso?
00:01:12O que é isso?
00:01:40O que é isso?
00:01:48O que é isso?
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00:02:03O que é isso?
00:02:03O que é isso?
00:02:05O que é isso?
00:02:05O que é isso?
00:02:07O que é isso?
00:02:09O que é isso?
00:02:09O que é isso?
00:02:22O que é isso?
00:02:23O que é isso?
00:02:25Todos os pais que estão aqui hoje, todos os pais que estão aqui por causa de um filho que eles
00:02:30tiveram perdido.
00:02:31A pais de Sammie Chapman de Los Angeles e Daniel Puerta de Santa Clarita.
00:02:38A pais como Bridgette Norring de Hastings, Minnesota, perdido seu filho de adolescente.
00:02:44Ame Neville é também aqui.
00:02:46A son, Alexandre, foi apenas 14 quando ele morreu.
00:02:52A son, Alexandre, foi um 16-year-old Arkansan.
00:02:56Depois de um casamento em 2022, ele procurou coisas como quotes inspiradoras e afirmativas positivas.
00:03:02Instead, ele foi servido em vários vídeos glamorizando suicídio até que ele se matou.
00:03:10Mr. Zuckerberg, você e as empresas antes de nós tem blood em suas mãos.
00:03:16Você tem um produto.
00:03:18Você tem um produto.
00:03:21Você tem um produto que está matando as pessoas.
00:03:24Não há um lei no livro que está significativo para proteger o consumidor americano.
00:03:28Nada vai mudar até que a porta da sala de escala é aberta para as vítimas de social media.
00:03:51As famílias que perderam mais do que qualquer um de nós podemos imaginar
00:03:54devem ter a oportunidade de vir a um tribunal de lei para descobrir o que essas empresas conhecem sobre o
00:04:01material que seus algoritmos
00:04:02expõem para predicar jovens, impressionáveis adolescentes.
00:04:07O social media está aqui para ficar.
00:04:09Bom ou ruim ou ruim ou indiferente, isso não vai passar.
00:04:11O objetivo é tentar manter as empresas de social media responsáveis legais.
00:04:16Mas é um longo prazo, e eles têm todo o dinheiro no mundo para lutar.
00:04:19Então, isso vai ser um David and Goliath thing, mas eu vou para a luta.
00:04:23Mr. Bergman, have people successfully gone after the social media platforms?
00:04:28No, this is the first case that's ever been tried in this way.
00:04:32I have tremendous respect and reverence for the judicial system and that legacy
00:04:40of standing up and arguing for the legal rights of people who have been harmed.
00:04:47I believe the plaintiffs should have the opportunity to ask questions under oath.
00:04:53I believe judges listen and I believe that ultimately we will move forward in holding these companies accountable.
00:05:01Good morning all.
00:05:02Good morning.
00:05:17Welcome everyone to our May in-person meeting.
00:05:21I want to introduce the newest member of our team.
00:05:23He's going to be our summer intern.
00:05:25Welcome Patrick.
00:05:26Laura Marquez Garrett.
00:05:27I've been here since February of 2022.
00:05:30I do, I guess, a little bit of everything.
00:05:33I'm Glenn Draper.
00:05:34I'm one of the attorneys.
00:05:35Matt and I have worked together for years.
00:05:38I came on out of retirement to SMVLC last June.
00:05:43I'm Matt.
00:05:44I'm Matt set this firm up because I think that unless the civil justice system gets involved
00:05:51and holds these companies accountable, we're going to have several lost generations of kids.
00:05:57The social media companies know what their products are doing to young people.
00:06:03They know the levels of addiction.
00:06:06They know the levels of suicide.
00:06:08But they have no legal breaks on their behavior.
00:06:17These are not easy cases.
00:06:19But we have clients whose stories are resonant, whose harms cannot be swept under the rug.
00:06:32Hey, man.
00:06:33Just want to look for what I'm thinking of you.
00:06:35In the next month or so, we're really going to get the sense of whether we get to go forward
00:06:39on these cases or not.
00:06:41You know, the defendants have done well in the past getting out of this, but they put most of their
00:06:46eggs on the Section 230 basket.
00:06:48And if that basket's not available for them, they're going to have a hard time explaining why your daughter needed
00:06:55to receive those videos.
00:06:57Okay, hang in there, man, and give my love to Brandy.
00:07:03That was Tony Roberts, whose daughter, England, died three years ago today, hanged herself after being encouraged to do so
00:07:15online.
00:07:17So, it was very real and very hard to think about somebody losing their child three years ago.
00:07:26I can't imagine.
00:07:41All right.
00:07:43All right, all right.
00:07:48Today just feels very special that everybody showed up.
00:07:54It's hard at the same time because we know we're missing someone.
00:07:58And that's why we question what happened.
00:08:15I am so glad that we had 14 years that God gave her to us.
00:08:26I am a firm believer that we'll be together again one day.
00:08:29And until then, I think he has given us a mission.
00:08:42We had no idea what the social media platforms were doing to her.
00:08:50She never shared with us.
00:08:51She never told us that she felt bad.
00:08:54We found out these things afterwards.
00:08:58This was on her phone, behind the social media life, nobody knows the real me, and how much I struggle
00:09:06to make sure everyone's good, even though I'm not.
00:09:09And when things are going wrong for me, I just become so suicidal, I look through her phone about a
00:09:21month after she passed.
00:09:23And I found a video on her phone of a lady on Instagram modeling self-strangulation.
00:09:32And exactly what that lady did on that video is what our child did.
00:09:36The social media companies know that our children are so vulnerable.
00:09:42To me, I feel that the only way that they're going to be forced to change is through a lawsuit.
00:09:48So that's why we're joining this fight.
00:09:58We have clients who are so righteous in their claims, who are so pure in their desire to make a
00:10:08difference.
00:10:10Our strength is the voice of the children coming back from the grave, holding these companies accountable.
00:10:19And those children's voices cannot be quelled.
00:10:27Are you holding it?
00:10:30I'm okay.
00:10:32What about you?
00:10:34Tough.
00:10:36Very tough.
00:10:54Randy Roberts from Louisiana.
00:10:56Thank you for being here.
00:10:58Thank you.
00:10:58It really means a lot.
00:10:59Tony Roberts, Louisiana.
00:11:01Thanks for having us.
00:11:06It's very meaningful that you're here, and I thank you.
00:11:13Riley died by suicide on March 30th, 2021, after he was targeted through Facebook Messenger
00:11:20by a sextortionist who got him to send compromising images and then blackmailed him.
00:11:28This is my son, Mason.
00:11:32He will have been gone for a year in about two weeks.
00:11:36On November the 14th, this is one year.
00:11:39I can't bring my son back, but I sure can do whatever I can to make sure that no other
00:11:45mother has to go through it.
00:11:47We have gone through it.
00:11:49I'm Brandy Roberts.
00:11:50This is my husband, Tony Roberts.
00:11:52Hi, and thank you all for having us.
00:11:55We lost our daughter, England, in September of 2020.
00:11:59This is a video of a lady with an extension cord around her neck tied to the top hinge of
00:12:05the doorframe,
00:12:05and that's how we found our daughter.
00:12:08It's on Instagram right now.
00:12:11This is our daughter in the hospital.
00:12:15I want the world to know you do not want this pain.
00:12:21Nobody, no child should have to go through what our children went through.
00:12:25Give it to me.
00:12:26I'll take it all day.
00:12:28But when you're a parent and you look forward to dying every day so you can hold to God's promise
00:12:33that we'll be together one day again,
00:12:36I'll accept that fate, too.
00:12:40Thank you all.
00:12:45I'm Glenn Draper from the Social Media Victims Law Center.
00:12:49There are thousands of kids across the country who have been harmed just like this,
00:12:55across every income level, across every educational level, in every state in the country.
00:13:02There are tens of millions of American kids who are spending hours every day addicted to social media,
00:13:10and the social media companies are targeting them to keep them online so they can show them another ad so
00:13:17they can make another penny.
00:13:18And it's wrong that we continue to let this happen, so this has to be a top priority.
00:13:24Thank you for your persistence and for continuing to share your stories.
00:13:31I think it means more than you will ever know.
00:13:35You know, these are all beautiful children.
00:13:40When the product design kills people, and they know it kills people, they ought to be held accountable.
00:13:49Social media platforms have developed and created and programmed a very different type of algorithm that is not operated based
00:13:57on user choice.
00:13:58They are choosing what our children see, and they are choosing what will engage them at any cost, which, it
00:14:05just so happens, is extreme.
00:14:07These are children that have been addicted by these apps, and once addicted, they are being force-fed harmful, violent,
00:14:14terrible stuff to keep them hooked.
00:14:20I cannot tell you the number of young children under the age of 16 I have spoken to who will
00:14:25tell me they have been shown live suicides and murders on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok.
00:14:42Hi, Jenny. Good to see you, yeah.
00:14:46All right, so go upstairs, and I'll show you his room.
00:14:49We've got to go this way.
00:14:50Oh.
00:14:54This is Mason's room.
00:14:55Pretty much the way he left it, the only thing that's different is the carpet and then the board that
00:14:59I've made.
00:15:00Those balloons are still left over from a celebration of life, but the kids don't want to get rid of
00:15:04them, so I don't blame them.
00:15:08Mason was a happy, happy, silly kid.
00:15:11He played football. He was on the track.
00:15:14Always just smile on his face and goofy and funny and just a kind, genuine person.
00:15:24This picture was taken on October 14th. He was gone a month later.
00:15:28This was taken the night before he took his life.
00:15:35Can you maybe go back the last two weeks or so and then work up to that?
00:15:40Yeah, yeah.
00:15:40So Mason had some anxiety. He was going through a breakup, but we just thought it was normal teenage stuff.
00:15:47Tell me about Mason's social media use.
00:15:49Four months after Mason passed, I was poring over his phone, looking for answers.
00:15:55I started going through the TikToks the last two weeks of his life, and one after another, after another, after
00:16:03another were videos glorifying, promoting, normalizing suicide.
00:16:12And you had no idea that he was seeing suicidal content?
00:16:17Nothing.
00:16:18Mason never searched suicide.
00:16:20Never.
00:16:21He was searching for, my girlfriend broke up with me.
00:16:24I have a broken heart.
00:16:25He even searched for positive affirmations.
00:16:29Imagine feeling rejected, feeling that sadness, feeling like what you need to turn to is social media, TikTok.
00:16:36And you're searching for help, and what you're getting is suicide content.
00:16:41This one, it's very disturbing.
00:16:44Today, we're going to be exploring the top 10 reasons why I want to...
00:16:51My hand.
00:16:54My head.
00:16:56Are you okay?
00:16:58No.
00:16:59That's one of the bad ones, but it's not even the worst of them.
00:17:03When did the dark stuff start?
00:17:04November the 1st, and then he was gone by November the 14th.
00:17:08It was that quick.
00:17:13I remember every single second that night.
00:17:16Tell me exactly what happened.
00:17:18I am trying to give him CPR.
00:17:20I need to give him CPR.
00:17:21I'm trying to give him CPR.
00:17:23I need you to take a breath.
00:17:24I need you to see what's happening.
00:17:25He blew his head off.
00:17:27Okay.
00:17:27He blew his head off.
00:17:28How old is he?
00:17:29Mason.
00:17:30He's 16.
00:17:31I'm going to count with you.
00:17:33Okay, start counting loud now.
00:17:35One, two, three, four.
00:17:37One, two, three, four.
00:17:39One, two, three, four.
00:17:42I think he's dead.
00:17:43I think he's dead.
00:17:46I feel like TikTok just put the gun in his hand and told him pull the trigger.
00:17:50I mean, that's all the videos were telling him to blow his head off.
00:17:58And then that's what he did.
00:18:20The committee will come to order.
00:18:22Our witness today is Mr. Sho Chu, Chief Executive Officer of TikTok.
00:18:26You're recognized for five minutes.
00:18:28Chair Rogers, members of the committee, thank you for your time.
00:18:33There are more than 150 million Americans who love our platform.
00:18:37And we know we have a responsibility to protect them.
00:18:40Mr. Chu, despite whatever action you take to protect teens,
00:18:44your algorithm continues to promote harmful content.
00:18:46Wouldn't you agree that indicates there is something inherently wrong
00:18:49with the algorithm your platform employs?
00:18:52I do respectfully disagree with that.
00:18:54Um, the algorithm drives a great user experience for many, many users.
00:18:58Two-thirds of all the youth in our country are on your, on your app.
00:19:04And you know, research has shown that TikTok is the most addictive platform out there.
00:19:10It's not a fair fight, is it?
00:19:12I mean, the algorithms are on one side of the screen.
00:19:15The human brain is on the other side of the screen drowning.
00:19:18In many instances at an age where the brain's not even fully developed yet.
00:19:23We do want to be leading in terms of safety of our users, particularly for teenagers.
00:19:29Okay, the rest, I'm sorry.
00:19:48At the age of 18, um, I landed my first full-time job at TikTok.
00:19:53When I joined, there was a total hype around TikTok.
00:19:57I was actually quite proud to work at the company because, um, I was part of this big mission.
00:20:04Then in the summer of 2021, I saw a Wall Street Journal article testing how TikTok is creating
00:20:10eco-chambers, especially for young people that really have a significant negative impact.
00:20:17So I started my personal experiment, screen recording a new account, to see how much time
00:20:22it takes for me to then be personally affected by these videos.
00:20:27In Germany, we don't say TikTok is designed for you to spend more and more time on the app.
00:20:33And with every minute that you're on, there are three to four advertisement slots in your feed.
00:20:38So TikTok earns money with you spending more time on the platform.
00:20:44The algorithm identifies how much time you spend on a single video.
00:20:48You could have searched for inspirational quotes, but in the end,
00:20:51your feed is not reflecting what you search for, it's what you spend time on.
00:20:58So I could see six videos that I just swiped through.
00:21:02And the seventh one has a really sad message and I spend time on it.
00:21:10It took me 15 minutes with just a few triggers of likes and comments under different postings
00:21:16to make sure that my feed was just dark quotes, breakup content and even people motivating others to
00:21:23support self-harm or eat disorders.
00:21:28When I saw these videos over and over in my For You feed, they had an impact on me.
00:21:33And I still remember a few days where I was just sitting right before midnight in front of my feed,
00:21:38crying.
00:21:41I tried contacting a guy in London that was high in the hierarchy of the company,
00:21:45sending him my example of the screen recording and saying, hey, can you have a look into this?
00:21:51But he didn't even give me a single answer while I was at the company.
00:21:57I think TikTok as an app has a positive side when it comes down to impacting culture.
00:22:03But what I see is that the platform is really
00:22:08not a safe environment for anybody within the young audience.
00:22:26When it comes down to choosing between the safety of the kids and the amount of advertising revenue that
00:22:32they can get, time and time and time again, the companies choose profits over safety.
00:22:38And do they know that kids are going to be hurt?
00:22:42Their own documents say, yes, they know.
00:22:45And brave whistleblowers have come forward and specifically put the documents in the hands of the executives.
00:22:54We are gathered today to hear testimony from a whistleblower.
00:23:08In 2019, I decided to go back to work for Instagram.
00:23:13I kept thinking, well, surely the executive team doesn't know the extent to which teens were
00:23:18experiencing harm on the platform. And so I kind of made it my job to make sure that they were
00:23:24aware.
00:23:25So we did a study done by their own world-class research team that couldn't be disavowed.
00:23:31And we asked hundreds of thousands of teenagers, have you ever received unwanted sexual advances on Instagram?
00:23:38One in eight, 13 to 15 year olds. Yes, in the last seven days.
00:23:43Have you ever felt worse about yourself because of other people's posts on Instagram?
00:23:49One in five kids said yes in the last seven days.
00:23:54Once we had all of the data, I wrote that email, which is the one where you tell the executives
00:23:59that there's a critical gap in their understanding and measurement and approach to the harm that
00:24:04people are experiencing in particular teenagers. And I sent that to Mark Zuckerberg,
00:24:09Sheryl Sandberg, Chris Cox, the head of product, Adam Mosseri, the head of Instagram.
00:24:17In that memo, you disclosed to them that according to your own research, one in eight
00:24:25children, children now, had experienced unwanted sexual advances within the last seven days.
00:24:31Is that correct? That's correct.
00:24:33Those numbers are astounding. I just want to let that sink in.
00:24:36One in eight within seven days, a third of children outside of that window.
00:24:42Mark Zuckerberg, did he reply to you? He did not reply.
00:24:45Did he meet with you? He did not meet with me.
00:24:48In my 30 years in the industry, if I sent an email like this, the next day I would have
00:24:52a meeting
00:24:52with the executive team. Every time. This was the first time I sent an email like this,
00:24:59that it didn't hurt back. They sloughed it off.
00:25:02Money was more important than protecting children. I think you should ask them that question.
00:25:07These companies will only work on the things that they're incentivized to do. Today,
00:25:13they're incentivized to maximize the amount of time people spend on a product. They're incentivized
00:25:18to maximize the revenue that they make from that. And we as a society have to pay the price.
00:25:27These companies have more money than small countries. Every case, every issue, they are going
00:25:33to throw everything they have at it to distract, to delay, to continue business as usual. But you have
00:25:40public interest organizations and non-profits and scientists and researchers and parents
00:25:45coming together, trying to make change. This is something that has to get done.
00:25:49You know, if you think about what addiction does to a 30-year-old adult,
00:25:54right? Now put that on a 10-year-old or a 12-year-old. As a society, we are still
00:25:59just
00:26:00scratching the surface of what these companies have done to our children.
00:26:03So in other words, if it is addictive, is there actual withdrawal?
00:26:07Yeah, there have been a number of scientific studies now for addiction. Remarkable number
00:26:11of kids, over 50 percent, are reporting at least one clinical symptom of withdrawal,
00:26:16tolerance symptoms, or dependence. It's important to remember that kids can try as hard as they can
00:26:23to stop using social media. But they're up against brilliant people who have invested billions of
00:26:29dollars to keep kids engaged for as long as they can. AI is pushing content that they know will be
00:26:37provocative, something fearful or anger-inducing, because we know that the more kids are steered
00:26:42towards this emotional content, the longer they'll stay online.
00:26:52Yesterday, we got eight new cases overnight. So we have 1865 open cases as of last night. By harm,
00:27:02the biggest change is the wrongful deaths. It went from 70 percent to 10 percent. A huge,
00:27:09huge jump. Matt, we got two fentanyl poisoning cases in just this morning. One died three weeks ago.
00:27:15Two today? Two just this morning already, in the last hour.
00:27:19Oh. A 19-year-old and an 18-year-old, um, who died three weeks ago.
00:27:40An important theme for the fentanyl cases is that this is a Snapchat-specific issue.
00:27:45And we have to be very clear and very careful in our wording, right? But we're not saying
00:27:49people don't sell drugs on other platforms. But when you're talking kids and you're talking
00:27:53counterfeit pills, the most dangerous, that's when they go to Snapchat.
00:27:57You know, this is going to be probably the most important brief we file.
00:28:02I just saw a case come in four minutes ago where he bought drugs off of Snapchat and he survived.
00:28:09Oh, thank God.
00:28:10Um, so I don't know, I just...
00:28:11Let's try to set up that call quickly.
00:28:14Sorry, by the way, that's three fentanyl poisons in one morning.
00:28:17It's not even 11 o'clock.
00:28:19It's just, I can't believe it.
00:28:20It's insane.
00:28:23One thing that's different about the way Social Media Victims Law Center approaches these cases
00:28:29is that we try to really dig into data that's stored on a child's device.
00:28:37And an integral team member on that for us has been Jason Tanner, our forensic data manager.
00:28:44I've worked in crime labs.
00:28:46I've managed the forensics lab at Oracle.
00:28:49So I got a wealth of experience there, and that's why they brought me on.
00:28:52And I was absolutely intrigued as a parent.
00:28:56I mean, I was getting choked up about it just talking about it.
00:28:58Just because in my life, like 12 years in the Marines, four years in Secret Service,
00:29:0615 years in the discovery, this is the most important thing I've ever done.
00:29:11Hands down. Hands down.
00:29:14Hands down.
00:29:15For example, this phone right here, this is from a 16-year-old kid who OD'd on fentanyl and nearly
00:29:20died.
00:29:21The goal is to be able to capture whatever evidence I thought was compelling,
00:29:25present it to the attorneys, and help give them the ammunition they need to do their job.
00:29:30Here's Snapchat, and this is the list of chats.
00:29:33Snap is useful when you don't want people to see what you're doing.
00:29:36So you see here, chats delete immediately, or I can change that to 24 hours from now,
00:29:45delete all that conversation, right?
00:29:48This is what Snap Map looks like.
00:29:51But you can see, let's say I'm a dealer.
00:29:54I can easily locate you, and hey, I'm going to be at the park around the corner.
00:29:58You can come meet me here.
00:30:00It's like the platform was built for that.
00:30:04So let's try to log in the web version of Snapchat.
00:30:11Working in Snapchat always makes me nervous.
00:30:14Just me interacting with it would potentially make things just disappear,
00:30:18whether I wanted to or not.
00:30:19I'm going to take a screen recording of this.
00:30:24I mean, this seems a little bit suspect to me.
00:30:29Yeah, cannabinoids, CBD, THC.
00:30:32You're seeing a lot of drug-related content.
00:30:36This is this guy, Cart Plug.
00:30:39Plug means dealer.
00:30:41And this is all weed.
00:30:43How many edibles in a pack?
00:30:45Yeah, you got weed.
00:30:46How much is it?
00:30:47Is it like this?
00:30:48Is it like that?
00:30:49Here's another one.
00:30:50Can you pick up tabs six for $85?
00:30:52I mean, this is just making arrangements to purchase drugs.
00:30:56And you're seeing that over and over, various different chats.
00:31:01This is a drug menu posted by a dealer on Snapchat.
00:31:08If you were to ask me out of the hundreds of cases that I look at now to review evidence,
00:31:13if it has anything to do with drugs, it's going to be on Snapchat.
00:31:16This is where it is 90% of the time.
00:31:20Then you'll see you then slash questionnaire.
00:31:21Because this one, if I go to class, I'm going to have another one.
00:31:21And you'll see that another one is about işонari.
00:31:40So makesheir in mind.
00:31:48We have a number of lawsuits pending here in the Los Angeles County Superior Court
00:31:54against Snapchat, and we should know a lot more about whether the courts are going to
00:32:00allow us to go forward by the end of the summer.
00:32:03We're hoping that by requiring Snapchat to face up and take responsibility for the people
00:32:10that it's injured, that they'll change their behavior, and that's what this is all about.
00:32:13We're doing this for all the other kids out there that are going to fall harm to the same
00:32:19thing today, tomorrow, the day after that.
00:32:24Amy Neville is the lead plaintiff in the Neville v. Snap case.
00:32:28She is one of the group of parents who tried to work with Snap.
00:32:31They tried to make change from the inside.
00:32:33They had ideas of how they could fix the product.
00:32:35They were told they couldn't sue, which for a long time they believed, until they realized
00:32:40that's crazy.
00:32:41There has got to be a way for us to force these companies to change those products.
00:32:48Hi, Laura.
00:32:49I'm Chelsea with Channel 11.
00:32:50Hi, Laura.
00:32:50Nice to meet you.
00:32:51I'm doing so many stories on this.
00:32:53You guys are getting so many cases.
00:32:54Sometimes three or four a day we get.
00:32:57There was a time period we were getting on average one a day consistently for weeks.
00:33:00What do you say?
00:33:01Those numbers.
00:33:02Are those people who've been harmed?
00:33:04People whose children are dead.
00:33:05Because of drugs.
00:33:07Families who've lost their kids.
00:33:08From drugs being distributed, primarily through Snapchat, I think out of 104 cases, there's
00:33:12only maybe...
00:33:13We're up to 104.
00:33:14We're up to 104.
00:33:15There's only three that did not involve Snapchat.
00:33:18If I'm a dealer and I want to sell something that I know is dangerous and I want to find
00:33:22a kid, I'm going to Snapchat.
00:33:23You just find one high school kid in your area, you add them, and then you add all their
00:33:28friends, and then you add their friends.
00:33:30Because the app suggests them to you.
00:33:32Right.
00:33:32Right?
00:33:33And since all of your messages disappear in 24 hours, it's very low risk.
00:33:39Snap could change so that they keep this data on their servers without changing the user
00:33:45experience at all.
00:33:46At all.
00:33:46All be invisible to the users so it works exactly the same way for the users.
00:33:51But if there's a problem, police could come and get it later.
00:33:55If Snap did that, 90% of this drug dealing on Snap would disappear overnight.
00:34:02I have spoken with over a hundred families of every socioeconomic status, every race, religion,
00:34:07two parents, one parent, and the only thing all these families have in common is that
00:34:12their children died of fentanyl poisoning thinking they had purchased a Percocet or an
00:34:16Oxy that they get on Snapchat.
00:34:18You know, we don't condone drug distribution of any sort or purchasing.
00:34:22These were our children who made mistakes and didn't deserve to die for it.
00:34:27From the beginning, we asked to see what has Snapchat done to mitigate and eliminate creditors
00:34:32from its platform.
00:34:34Today, we are begging Snapchat to fix their product.
00:34:37We want proof that it's been done.
00:34:39We want the death to stop.
00:34:42This lawsuit is going to change the way Snapchat and other social media take advantage of our
00:34:49kids.
00:34:51And that is the best thing that we can get out of this.
00:35:12You know, they selectively quote one section from Section 230, but Section 230 says it is
00:35:19is a policy of the United States to encourage the development of technologies which maximize
00:35:24user control over what information is received by individuals, families, and schools.
00:35:29That's to say, you know, and all of Snapchat is designed to take that control away.
00:35:35To thwart that.
00:35:35To thwart that.
00:35:36230 talks about user control.
00:35:38This case, we are alleging the opposite of user control.
00:35:41We are alleging that Snap created a dangerous situation and then manipulated these kids.
00:35:49This is the opposite of user control.
00:35:52It's hard to think of any example of American jurisprudence where a statute has been interpreted
00:35:57so differently than either its plain language or legislative intent.
00:36:02But that's where we are.
00:36:03It's just a travesty because this is not what Congress intended in the Communication Decency
00:36:10Act in 1996.
00:36:12We live in a highly technological society where access to information is critical.
00:36:17We're here to have the law catch up with the technology.
00:36:22Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act was enacted in response to the Internet being
00:36:28born when social media platforms did not exist.
00:36:32Back in 1996, you had a system where you'd get online, you'd look for what you wanted.
00:36:36You had online bulletin boards, right?
00:36:40They're chat rooms.
00:36:40They're places where you, the user, have control.
00:36:43The goal of Section 230 was to incentivize platforms to take down harmful content without
00:36:48the risk of liability if they didn't.
00:36:50The provision stated that no Internet service provider could be held legally liable for what
00:36:55users say or do on their platforms.
00:36:57Much later, young folks out in Silicon Valley would develop new technologies, but they were
00:37:01technologies we didn't understand.
00:37:02When we first launched, we were hoping for, you know, maybe 400, 500 people.
00:37:07And now we're at 100,000 people, so who knows where we're going next?
00:37:10We've gone from having around 150,000 people in the fall to right around 3 million now.
00:37:16Are you on Facebook yet?
00:37:18The site is up to 60 million users so far, with a projection of 200 million by the end of
00:37:24the year.
00:37:27When social media came out, remember, we all thought this was going to be a new beginning.
00:37:32You know, isn't it great we can go on Facebook and find our high school girlfriend?
00:37:36Or isn't it great we can connect with people around the world?
00:37:39And it was only when these products developed into algorithmically driven addictive mechanisms
00:37:46that the harms really became manifest.
00:37:50Stark warning from one of the founders of Facebook.
00:37:52The site's first president, Sean Parker, is now admitting that Facebook was designed to be addictive.
00:37:57The 38-year-old mogul admits he, along with other pioneers of social media, knew what they were doing.
00:38:03It's me.
00:38:03It's Mark.
00:38:04It's the, you know, Kevin Sisterman Instagram.
00:38:07It's all of these people, um, understood this consciously, and we did it anyway.
00:38:15Because of Section 230, because of these companies not being truthful, not being transparent,
00:38:20nobody knew what they were doing behind closed doors.
00:38:23Over three and a half billion snaps are created every single day.
00:38:26It becomes such an important part of your life.
00:38:28It's hard to imagine, you know, communicating another way.
00:38:31We are locked into these things, and kids are using them for eight-plus hours a day.
00:38:36Children are waking up in the middle of the night and going to get their cell phone when their parents
00:38:39are sleeping
00:38:40so they can be on them, because they cannot turn them off.
00:38:45For over a decade now, these companies have profited by taking what we create and post on their platforms,
00:38:51then feeding it back to us in endless streams of content that they know we can't look away from.
00:38:56Facebook is under fire tonight, following testimony by a former employee.
00:39:02Almost no one outside of Facebook knows what happens inside of Facebook.
00:39:07The company intentionally hides vital information from the public, from the U.S. government,
00:39:12and from governments around the world.
00:39:13Francis Haugen testified before Congress, and I realize this is very analogous to the tobacco industry.
00:39:20If you look at cigarette company internal documents from the 70s and 80s,
00:39:24they said things like, the base of our business is the high school student,
00:39:29and today's teenager is tomorrow's potential regular customer.
00:39:34And they knew that smokers start in their teens,
00:39:38and they actively marketed their addictive products toward minors through things like Joe Camel,
00:39:44knowing that those were going to be their lifetime customers.
00:39:47In the case of social media, you have internal Facebook documents released by Francis Haugen,
00:39:53saying tweens are herd animals.
00:39:56Kids have an addicts narrative.
00:39:58Our products make girls feel worse about themselves.
00:40:01You have the same kind of corporate misconduct,
00:40:06knowing disregard of the life and safety of others,
00:40:10and an intentional decision to put profits over people.
00:40:14And so, for the first time, I thought that the way to attack these social media companies
00:40:22is as product manufacturers to try to adapt product liability theory to social media
00:40:28and, on that basis, provide for the first time a legal handle
00:40:34from which injured people can hold them accountable
00:40:38and, hopefully, incentivize them to design and produce safer products.
00:40:55We're just opening our actual office.
00:40:57We're going to have our monthly meeting.
00:41:00There are four major hearings between now and November,
00:41:04so the next two months.
00:41:05It's going to determine whether or not these cases can go forward.
00:41:09Up until now, social media companies have been very successful
00:41:13in getting cases dismissed at the pleading stage,
00:41:17before there's been any discovery,
00:41:19before plaintiffs have had any attempt to gather evidence.
00:41:23If we can get discovery,
00:41:25we could uncover unethical or illegal activities.
00:41:27It would deter these companies from engaging in wrongful conduct going forward
00:41:32because they would know that their internal decisions could be scrutinized.
00:41:41Oh, look at us all.
00:41:42Oh, my God.
00:41:44We're a real law firm.
00:41:45Can you believe this?
00:41:46Hey, how you doing?
00:41:48All right.
00:41:50What court deadlines do we have this week and the next week?
00:41:53We do have a deadline.
00:41:55It's 10 days before the hearing in SNAP,
00:41:57and it includes a discussion of discovery.
00:41:59And then in the Buffalo case,
00:42:01our response is due the 14th of October.
00:42:06The Social Media Victims Law Center does not have a lot of power.
00:42:10We don't have huge law firms behind us.
00:42:12We don't have a lot of money.
00:42:14But we have brilliant staff
00:42:16that have decided to devote themselves to making a difference.
00:42:22These efforts to hold social media companies accountable,
00:42:24it's all-consuming not just because so much needs to be done,
00:42:28but because, and I know I speak for the whole team here,
00:42:30our whole team,
00:42:31because there's nothing else we would rather be doing.
00:42:34Before I started doing this work,
00:42:36I was an equity partner
00:42:37at one of Seattle's finest, most reputable firms.
00:42:40I had the corner office.
00:42:42I loved my colleagues.
00:42:43I loved my job.
00:42:44I met Matt in January 2022,
00:42:47and by February of 2022,
00:42:50I was at the Social Media Victims Law Center.
00:42:56I have asked myself before,
00:42:58am I risking my children's college funds?
00:43:00Am I risking, you know, economic stability?
00:43:03Am I going to make it more difficult to my wife?
00:43:05But the way I look at it is,
00:43:07all the money in the world,
00:43:08if my children are in harm's way,
00:43:10if my children are harmed,
00:43:11if I can't protect them,
00:43:12it doesn't matter.
00:43:15Historically, if your child was sleeping soundly in their bed,
00:43:18you knew your child was safe.
00:43:20These companies have upped the stakes.
00:43:22They're now in your children's bedroom.
00:43:23Right?
00:43:24It's invasion of your home.
00:43:26These kids have no safe place.
00:43:55Last year, I was probably on the road 38 weeks ago.
00:43:58going into middle schools,
00:43:59going into high schools,
00:44:00talking about the dangers of fentanyl,
00:44:02and also social media harms.
00:44:04I think we're probably okay to get started, yeah?
00:44:07Okay.
00:44:07We are going to be talking about the fentanyl crisis.
00:44:11This is the number one killer in Orange County of 17 and under.
00:44:14It's three years in a row now.
00:44:16We had to learn this the hard way
00:44:17after we lost our 14-year-old son, Alexander.
00:44:21This would have been his high school.
00:44:24He would have been 18 this May.
00:44:30Alexander, by all accounts,
00:44:32was a pretty adventuresome kiddo
00:44:33who loved to learn about things.
00:44:40He was obsessed with the Civil War at one point in his life,
00:44:43and we would go to Civil War reenactments.
00:44:45That was his idea of a good time.
00:44:50You're not going to look, Alex.
00:44:52I don't really care.
00:44:53I know what happened.
00:44:56As he got older,
00:44:58I wasn't all that concerned
00:45:00about Alexander's use of social media
00:45:01because I wasn't losing him to it
00:45:03for hours at a time.
00:45:05He ate meals with us.
00:45:06We'd watch TV together.
00:45:08He was out skateboarding every afternoon,
00:45:11and we would spot-check his phone
00:45:13maybe every week or so.
00:45:15But we were looking for sexual predators and bullies
00:45:18because that's what the social media companies
00:45:20told us to look for.
00:45:22I don't keep it a secret
00:45:23that this kiddo wanted to experiment.
00:45:25That was the space that he was in,
00:45:27but we thought we were prepared for that,
00:45:29and we talked about drugs with Alex.
00:45:31We had all these safeguards in place,
00:45:33and yet we still ended up here.
00:45:36Some things I want to point out,
00:45:37there's this, you know,
00:45:38we think kids are partying and taking drugs,
00:45:40and that's where these things are happening.
00:45:41But Alex died right down the hallway from me.
00:45:44You know, it was supposed to be that,
00:45:45you know, you say goodnight,
00:45:46and you think your kids are safe,
00:45:47and it's just not the times
00:45:49that we're living in anymore.
00:45:50We give our kids these smartphones.
00:45:52We let them have these apps,
00:45:53and that is the equivalent of dropping them off
00:45:55in the worst neighborhood in our area
00:45:58and saying, good luck tonight.
00:45:59I'll see you later.
00:45:59Your kid, when they're on a social media platform,
00:46:03is exposed to more predators
00:46:06than you ever knew existed.
00:46:11We have Instagram cases
00:46:13where children have been blackmailed
00:46:17by criminal gangs,
00:46:18and they've caused several suicides.
00:46:21In an effort to extort $50 from your kid,
00:46:24they're going to scare your kids so badly
00:46:26that they kill themselves.
00:46:29In the case of 17-year-old Jordan Demay,
00:46:32one night in March of 2023,
00:46:35he was contacted by extortionists
00:46:38posing as a teenage girl.
00:46:40They messaged him on Instagram
00:46:42using the hacked account of Danny Roberts.
00:47:03Generally, when we respond to suicides within the first couple hours,
00:47:07usually we can figure out the reason why it occurred.
00:47:11But in this particular case, the obvious answers were not present.
00:47:17You've got someone like Jordan Demay,
00:47:19the former prom king,
00:47:21the football star, the basketball star,
00:47:23and you wonder, how can this happen to someone?
00:47:27When you start reading these transcripts
00:47:29and looking at the interaction
00:47:31between the suspect and Jordan from Instagram,
00:47:34I mean, I guess you can see why.
00:47:37Jordan thought he was talking to a girl
00:47:40by the name of Danny Roberts,
00:47:42and it wasn't until the extortion started
00:47:46that he then realized
00:47:48that who he thought he was talking to was not reality.
00:47:54It's just kind of like a banter back and forth,
00:47:57and then eventually they disclose
00:47:59that they want to trade some pictures.
00:48:03So at the point that Jordan had sent
00:48:06some naked images of himself,
00:48:08a suspect account came back with this statement.
00:48:12I have screenshotted all your followers and tags
00:48:15and can send this nudes to everyone
00:48:18and also send your nudes to your family and friends
00:48:21until it goes viral, dot, dot, dot.
00:48:24All you have to do is to cooperate with me,
00:48:27and I won't expose you.
00:48:29Are you going to cooperate with me?
00:48:30Just pay me right now.
00:48:34They don't want to give that victim time to think.
00:48:36They're going to put that pressure on until they comply.
00:48:39Jordan responded with,
00:48:41I'm killing myself right now because of you.
00:48:45The perpetrator says,
00:48:47good, do that fast,
00:48:49or I'll make you do it, I swear to God.
00:48:52I mean, once this starts,
00:48:54it just doesn't slow down.
00:48:56That's the scary part of this whole thing.
00:48:58It was roughly six hours from the time of initial contact
00:49:01to the point where Jordan had killed himself.
00:49:20His bed is how he left it the last day he was here.
00:49:25It still smells like him in here.
00:49:30A mix of, like, teenage boy sweat and cologne and whatever.
00:49:40The way that his age group of kids interact
00:49:45was through social media.
00:49:49I remember he came to me and said,
00:49:52I can't talk to any of my friends because we don't text.
00:49:56We don't have each other's phone numbers.
00:49:57Jordan spent most of his time on Instagram and Snapchat.
00:50:00They're communicating on those platforms
00:50:02all the time throughout the day.
00:50:04Social media provided a place for these people
00:50:08using this hacked account to contact Jordan
00:50:12and basically gave them a safe space to commit a crime.
00:50:21There's a lot of things that went wrong that night,
00:50:24but ultimately, Instagram is the reason it happened.
00:50:30Social media is the reason it happened.
00:50:45Social media is hyper-competitive
00:50:48amongst the different social media platforms.
00:50:51What they're selling is your kid's attention,
00:50:54and every minute that your kid is on TikTok
00:50:56is a minute that they're not on Instagram or on Snapchat.
00:51:01They have the most sophisticated minds on Earth
00:51:04working on this to help them design these features,
00:51:08and this is true about all of the platforms,
00:51:11but it's particularly true about Snapchat.
00:51:14Snapchat has features that can incentivize your kid
00:51:19to be on more.
00:51:20One of them is the SnapScore.
00:51:23The more people you communicate with,
00:51:25the higher your score gets.
00:51:27Kids like to compare their SnapScores.
00:51:30If you've got a higher SnapScore,
00:51:32that means you've got more friends on Snapchat.
00:51:34Well, how do you get more friends on Snapchat?
00:51:37One way is you accept the quick ad recommendations
00:51:41that Snapchat sends you.
00:51:44They have incentivized kids to accept these friend requests,
00:51:48and the friend requests include all manner of people
00:51:52that you don't want your kids talking to.
00:51:56So we are on our way to go see Michael Brewer.
00:52:01Michael was 13 years old
00:52:03when he took a fentanyl-laced fake Percocet pill
00:52:10that he purchased from a Snapchat dealer,
00:52:13and he was literally dead and was revived
00:52:20and suffered some pretty egregious injuries.
00:52:26This testimony is going to show the judge
00:52:28that Snapchat's full of it
00:52:30when they say that we don't know how it works.
00:52:32We know how it works.
00:52:41I bet this is them right there, actually.
00:52:54Hi, Michael.
00:52:55I'm Glenn Draper.
00:52:56Very nice to meet you.
00:52:57Guys, you're welcome, too.
00:52:58Yeah, thank you for doing this.
00:53:00I really appreciate it.
00:53:02We're going to make a difference.
00:53:04Come on in.
00:53:07Michael is pretty unique
00:53:09in our Snapchat fentanyl cases
00:53:12because he's still alive.
00:53:18He is somebody that could tell us
00:53:21this is how it really happened.
00:53:23Let's get through.
00:53:27Let me just tell you how it'll work tomorrow
00:53:29during a deposition.
00:53:31You'll be under oath,
00:53:33which means you'll be sworn to tell the truth.
00:53:36That's really the most important thing,
00:53:38that you tell the truth.
00:53:39Okay?
00:53:41Yeah.
00:53:42What did you like to do before you were injured?
00:53:45I liked playing football.
00:53:46Uh-huh.
00:53:47I liked playing video games.
00:53:50I liked beating up my brother.
00:53:54You were 13 years old.
00:54:03So, you're at the head of the table here.
00:54:09Stand by.
00:54:13If you could raise your right hand,
00:54:15do you solemnly swear
00:54:16that the testimony about to give in this matter
00:54:17shall be the truth that will truth to nothing,
00:54:19but the truth shall be fine.
00:54:20Yes.
00:54:22Michael, when did you first open a Snapchat account?
00:54:28Around 10 or 11.
00:54:31How long after you started on Snapchat
00:54:34did you start to receive this drug-related content?
00:54:37Um, when I was, like, 12 and a half,
00:54:44I got this guy who, on my quick ad,
00:54:51his name was, like, Mary Jane and the tree emoji.
00:54:57When I quick added him,
00:54:59he originally, like, responded two days later,
00:55:04saying, what, what you want.
00:55:08And then I, I was, like,
00:55:13what?
00:55:13What do you mean?
00:55:15And then he sent me a photo of his drug menu.
00:55:21After that, quick ad.
00:55:24Five or six out of ten were dealers.
00:55:28How often were you receiving drug menus
00:55:33in your stories feeds on Snapchat?
00:55:37Every hour, there were new drug menus.
00:55:41What happened leading up to Christmas Day of 2020?
00:55:59Did he bring the drugs to you?
00:56:03Yeah.
00:56:04When did you take one of the supposed Percocet pills?
00:56:09Michael, thank you for, uh, talking with me this afternoon.
00:56:10I was pretty late on Christmas Eve,
00:56:13like, 10, 11 p.m.
00:56:17I kind of backed out after 30 minutes.
00:56:22My mom woke up in the middle of the night
00:56:26and I was foaming at the mouth.
00:56:31I was cold to the touch.
00:56:34Michael, thank you for, uh,
00:56:36talking with me this afternoon.
00:56:38Thank you.
00:56:40Thank you.
00:57:14I want to thank our attorneys
00:57:15for having the vision, uh, right away for this case
00:57:19and believing in us
00:57:21and, and what we had to say
00:57:23after the many times we've been told
00:57:24you can't sue Snapchat.
00:57:25But look, here we are.
00:57:26We're right here in front of the courthouse steps,
00:57:28moments away from going in.
00:57:30Snapchat's product is broken.
00:57:32It's defective.
00:57:33They've known for a long time.
00:57:35They won't fix it.
00:57:36Because of Section 230, uh,
00:57:39the doors to this courthouse were closed to them.
00:57:41The entire American legal system
00:57:43was closed to them, um, for years.
00:57:46And these parents kept fighting.
00:57:48If nothing else today,
00:57:49they have already proven Snapchat wrong.
00:58:02It's just a few of us up against
00:58:04the most powerful, richest companies in the world.
00:58:07But we're just asking,
00:58:09look, judge,
00:58:09allow us to go forward with the case.
00:58:12It's simply whether we have the opportunity
00:58:14to even try.
00:58:16Representing people like these parents
00:58:18is very motivating
00:58:20and gives us purpose for doing it.
00:58:24I think this is a fight
00:58:25I've been training for for 30 years.
00:58:27So hopefully I'm up for it
00:58:29because I don't have another 30 years to train.
00:58:34All right, let's go to war.
00:58:52The main thing that it comes to order,
00:58:54the department's second is now on the back.
00:58:56Good morning, all.
00:58:58Good morning.
00:59:00These cases ask some very profound questions
00:59:05concerning the 2023 world of interconnectedness.
00:59:12Big picture abstractions aside,
00:59:14these cases involve,
00:59:16for some dozens of families,
00:59:18a terrible loss.
00:59:23All right, defense.
00:59:25Are you prepared to proceed?
00:59:32Thank you, Your Honor.
00:59:33I'm Jessica Grant on behalf of Snap, Inc.
00:59:35I think Section 230 immunizes
00:59:39Internet service providers like Snap
00:59:41from any claim,
00:59:43whether it's strict products liability,
00:59:45whether it's negligence,
00:59:47any public nuisance, etc.
00:59:49And you started your comments,
00:59:51and I want to echo them, Your Honor,
00:59:52by something that I think
00:59:54needs to be acknowledged in this courtroom,
00:59:56which is that we all feel empathy
00:59:59for the plaintiffs and their losses.
01:00:01This case is no doubt tragic.
01:00:04Although we all feel empathy for the losses
01:00:07that plaintiffs have suffered,
01:00:09the legal theory,
01:00:10or the theories,
01:00:12that are being put before you
01:00:15have been tried many times before
01:00:17all of these cases.
01:00:19The content here was created
01:00:21by the drug dealers.
01:00:23Snap, its only role,
01:00:26was an intermediary for the exchange
01:00:28of those two messages.
01:00:29So, quite frankly,
01:00:30if those same communications
01:00:31had happened via text,
01:00:33via email,
01:00:34on the phone,
01:00:35would AT&T be liable
01:00:37for that drug deal?
01:00:39No, of course not.
01:00:40Can I interrupt you, please?
01:00:44I hear you.
01:00:46I understand your argument.
01:00:47But I'm thinking to myself,
01:00:51maybe the better way
01:00:53for some or all of these issues
01:00:56to be decided
01:00:57is on an actual factual record
01:01:00where the court receives evidence
01:01:03from witnesses and documents,
01:01:07and the court gets an inkling
01:01:09of what's true and not true.
01:01:12You don't need any discovery
01:01:14or any evidence.
01:01:15These are pure legal questions.
01:01:17Nothing will change the fact
01:01:19that the harm here
01:01:22is 100% dependent on the content.
01:01:25OK.
01:01:27Plaintiff side.
01:01:34Your Honor,
01:01:35we are in the midst
01:01:36of a fentanyl crisis.
01:01:38This is the largest killer
01:01:39of young people,
01:01:41according to the CDC.
01:01:42Snapchat is involved
01:01:44in more of these cases
01:01:46than all other products combined.
01:01:48The design of the Snapchat product,
01:01:51which is separate and distinct
01:01:52from virtually every other
01:01:54social media platform,
01:01:55facilitates drug dealers
01:01:57to evade legal responsibility
01:01:59and evade and hide
01:02:01the evidence of their crime.
01:02:03For that reason, Your Honor,
01:02:04we believe that Section 230
01:02:06does not immunize SNAP,
01:02:08and at the very least,
01:02:09we ought to be able
01:02:10to conduct discovery
01:02:11to learn more about
01:02:13the nature of these products,
01:02:14the nature of how they interact
01:02:16with each other,
01:02:17and what SNAP knew
01:02:19and when it knew it.
01:02:22Let's take a break, OK?
01:02:24That would be fun.
01:02:24See you soon.
01:02:28And I cannot believe
01:02:30that she would say
01:02:32that Section 230
01:02:33immunizes them
01:02:35from any lie-by-law,
01:02:36any lie-by-law.
01:02:38You know that's not true.
01:02:39Yeah.
01:02:41There she is.
01:02:59We've alleged that Snapchat
01:03:01is involved in more of these deaths
01:03:02than every other social media platform
01:03:04put together.
01:03:04Yeah.
01:03:05He gets that,
01:03:06so his point is,
01:03:06do we need discovery now
01:03:07on that issue?
01:03:09She gave me a real
01:03:12gift
01:03:12with the telephone.
01:03:15What?
01:03:15If the telephone company says,
01:03:17hey,
01:03:18here's a drug dealer,
01:03:19here are you,
01:03:20hey,
01:03:21call you up,
01:03:22there's a drug dealer.
01:03:22I mean,
01:03:23this is not a passive intermediary.
01:03:26I think we just keep pushing him
01:03:28where he's already headed.
01:03:36OK,
01:03:36we are back on the record.
01:03:39What would you say
01:03:40to Ms. Grant's point
01:03:42that one could say
01:03:44the same thing
01:03:45about Verizon
01:03:45or AT&T
01:03:46because these same
01:03:50communications
01:03:50between drug dealers
01:03:52and minors
01:03:53could occur
01:03:54on a cell phone?
01:03:56I don't believe it
01:03:57to be analogous,
01:03:58Your Honor,
01:03:58unless Verizon
01:03:58and AT&T
01:03:59give drug dealers
01:04:00the phone numbers
01:04:01of vulnerable kids
01:04:03who might be
01:04:04potential customers.
01:04:05If, hypothetically,
01:04:07I get past
01:04:07the 230 argument
01:04:09and now we are
01:04:09in the world of
01:04:10quote,
01:04:12products liability.
01:04:13Is there binding
01:04:14California authority
01:04:15that says,
01:04:16Judge Riff,
01:04:17you've taken a notice
01:04:18to follow the law,
01:04:19this is the law,
01:04:20follow it.
01:04:21I think there's
01:04:22a well-trodden path
01:04:23for you to follow
01:04:24in terms of
01:04:24if you're following the law
01:04:25and the great weight
01:04:27of authority.
01:04:28No one has held
01:04:29that these apps
01:04:30are products.
01:04:31They've held
01:04:31that they are
01:04:31intangible services.
01:04:34But maybe you could
01:04:35share with me
01:04:36what exactly
01:04:37are you suggesting
01:04:38that SNAP
01:04:39would be liable for?
01:04:40I'm not suggesting
01:04:41anything.
01:04:41Plaintiffs are suggesting
01:04:42a pretty detailed
01:04:44collection of legal theories.
01:04:46Right.
01:04:47You know,
01:04:48negligent failure to warn,
01:04:49strict liability failure
01:04:50to warn,
01:04:51that the risk of harm
01:04:53outweighs the benefit
01:04:54of the design,
01:04:56et cetera, et cetera.
01:04:58And, I mean,
01:04:59that's their theory.
01:05:00Well, that's their theory,
01:05:01but of course
01:05:02we have to look
01:05:02at the actual facts.
01:05:04I mean,
01:05:04you can have a product's
01:05:05liability theory.
01:05:06What is causing the harm?
01:05:09I know.
01:05:09And, again,
01:05:10that's why I asked
01:05:11the question
01:05:13and I'm struggling.
01:05:16Judge,
01:05:17Snapchat could leave
01:05:18every bit of content
01:05:20regarding drugs
01:05:21on its platform
01:05:23and not be subject
01:05:23to liability
01:05:24because that's not
01:05:26what we're talking
01:05:26about here.
01:05:27We're talking about
01:05:28the manner
01:05:29in which it is designed.
01:05:30What we have here
01:05:31is essentially
01:05:31a virtual equivalent
01:05:33of a video arcade
01:05:35with a room in the back
01:05:36where kids go
01:05:37to buy and sell drugs
01:05:39and Snapchat
01:05:40is aware of that
01:05:41and profits
01:05:42from kids going
01:05:43to the video arcade.
01:05:44For that reason,
01:05:45Your Honor,
01:05:45we believe that
01:05:46these cases
01:05:47should be permitted
01:05:48to go forward
01:05:49and explored
01:05:50through discovery.
01:05:52I need to think
01:05:53a lot more
01:05:54and decide
01:05:54what I'm going to do.
01:05:55I just don't know
01:05:57what I'm going to do yet.
01:05:59Thank you very much.
01:05:59You're free to go.
01:06:18This judge is very smart.
01:06:20He gets the gravity
01:06:21of what's at issue.
01:06:23I would say
01:06:24I'm cautiously optimistic,
01:06:26but, you know,
01:06:27I think, you know,
01:06:30I don't think
01:06:31we're out of the woods either.
01:06:33I just want to say
01:06:34I think it's fantastic
01:06:35that all of us
01:06:36could be here together
01:06:37because I think
01:06:38there's power in numbers.
01:06:39Yeah.
01:06:39And I do feel like,
01:06:41you know,
01:06:41for the judge,
01:06:43just to take a look
01:06:44at all of us
01:06:44and know that,
01:06:46you know,
01:06:46the pain
01:06:46that we're all enduring.
01:06:48And thank you.
01:06:49Thank you.
01:06:53In that courtroom,
01:06:55we had a fair judge
01:06:56that was listening
01:06:57to both sides.
01:06:59And that's a beautiful thing
01:07:01about our system of justice,
01:07:02that at that moment,
01:07:03those families
01:07:04were equal
01:07:05to the billionaire companies
01:07:07that they were arguing against.
01:07:08And I got to be
01:07:10their voice.
01:07:13and that's something
01:07:14I'm going to be
01:07:15very grateful for,
01:07:16no matter what the outcome.
01:07:37Hi.
01:07:40Hi.
01:07:40Hi.
01:07:45We're here to bear witness
01:07:46to the captains of industry
01:07:48sitting in front of Congress.
01:07:50The last time
01:07:51something like this happened
01:07:52was 1994
01:07:53when the executives
01:07:54of the tobacco companies
01:07:56were called before Congress
01:07:57and were asked under oath
01:07:59whether nicotine is a dick ring.
01:08:01Gabble, guys.
01:08:02Everyone back.
01:08:02Gabble.
01:08:06Social media
01:08:07is a very powerful tool.
01:08:09But we're here
01:08:10because every parent I know
01:08:12and I think every parent in America
01:08:14is terrified
01:08:16about the garbage
01:08:17that is directed at our kids.
01:08:22And each of your companies
01:08:23could do a lot more
01:08:24to prevent it.
01:08:26We approve the content
01:08:27that is recommended
01:08:28on our service
01:08:28using a combination
01:08:29of automated processes
01:08:31and human review.
01:08:32We made these choices
01:08:34after consulting with doctors
01:08:35and safety experts
01:08:37who understand
01:08:38the unique stages
01:08:39of teenage development.
01:08:40The existing body
01:08:41of scientific work
01:08:42has not shown
01:08:43a causal link
01:08:44between using social media
01:08:46and young people
01:08:47having worse mental health outcomes.
01:08:48Mr. Zuckerberg,
01:08:49did I hear you say
01:08:50in your opening statement
01:08:51that there's no link
01:08:52between mental health
01:08:53and social media use?
01:08:55Senator, what I said is
01:08:56I think it's important
01:08:57to look at the science.
01:08:58Really?
01:08:59Let me just remind you
01:09:00of some of the science
01:09:00from your own company.
01:09:02Here's some information
01:09:02from a whistleblower
01:09:03who came before the Senate,
01:09:05testified under oath
01:09:06in public.
01:09:06He worked for you.
01:09:07I know you're familiar
01:09:07with these stats
01:09:08because he sent you an email
01:09:09where he lined it all out.
01:09:11I mean, we've got a copy
01:09:12of it right here.
01:09:13It's been years
01:09:14since I sent that email,
01:09:15years since I've had
01:09:16that conversation
01:09:17and things have not changed
01:09:19because Mark feels
01:09:21that the company
01:09:21is doing enough.
01:09:22Mr. Zuckerberg,
01:09:23why should your company
01:09:25not be sued for this?
01:09:28Senator, I view my job
01:09:30and the job of our company
01:09:31as building the best tools
01:09:33that we can
01:09:34to keep our community safe.
01:09:35Well, you're failing at that.
01:09:37Well, Senator,
01:09:37we're doing an industry
01:09:38leading effort.
01:09:39We build AI tools that...
01:09:40Your job is to be responsible
01:09:42for what your company
01:09:43has done.
01:09:44You've made billions of dollars
01:09:45on the people
01:09:45sitting behind you here.
01:09:47You've done nothing
01:09:48to help them.
01:09:48Until they get compelled,
01:09:50it's not going to change
01:09:51because of the hubris
01:09:53of the people
01:09:54who run these companies
01:09:55who really feel
01:09:56that they're doing
01:09:57a good enough job
01:09:58or there's all of these kids
01:09:59that are proof
01:10:00that they're not.
01:10:02Mr. Spiegel,
01:10:03there are a number
01:10:04of parents
01:10:05whose children
01:10:07have been able
01:10:07to access illegal drugs
01:10:09on your platform.
01:10:11What do you say
01:10:11to those parents?
01:10:13I'm so sorry
01:10:14that we have not been able
01:10:15to prevent these tragedies.
01:10:16We proactively look for
01:10:18and detect
01:10:18drug-related content.
01:10:20We remove it
01:10:20from our platform,
01:10:21preserve it as evidence,
01:10:22and then we refer it
01:10:24to law enforcement
01:10:25for action.
01:10:26None of those efforts
01:10:27are keeping our kids
01:10:28from getting access
01:10:30to those drugs
01:10:31on your platform.
01:10:32This is about making sure
01:10:34this doesn't happen
01:10:35to other children.
01:10:36I know
01:10:37because I've talked
01:10:38to these parents.
01:10:39We need to stop
01:10:40buying the BS
01:10:41that these social media
01:10:42companies are telling us
01:10:43and take back
01:10:45the power from them.
01:10:46You made
01:10:47a conscious decision
01:10:49that growing
01:10:52this business,
01:10:54expanding your revenue,
01:10:56that was the priority.
01:10:59The children were not.
01:11:01Their own policy states
01:11:02that they don't allow
01:11:03self-harm.
01:11:04They don't allow
01:11:05child trafficking,
01:11:07drug sales,
01:11:09and things like that
01:11:09on their platforms.
01:11:11And every one of them lie.
01:11:13To all the victims
01:11:15who came and showed us
01:11:17photos of your loved ones,
01:11:18don't quit.
01:11:19The damage to your family
01:11:20has been done.
01:11:22Hopefully, we can take
01:11:23your pain and turn it
01:11:24into something positive
01:11:25so nobody else
01:11:26has to hold up a sign.
01:11:55And so here we are today
01:11:57with all of the respect
01:11:59in the world
01:11:59for every parent
01:12:00that has lost a child,
01:12:01for all the respect
01:12:02in the world
01:12:03for every youth
01:12:04that is speaking up
01:12:04about these things.
01:12:06These companies
01:12:07need to listen.
01:12:08This is what
01:12:09the work is about.
01:12:17So, hold on.
01:12:18It looks like
01:12:19the whole team
01:12:19is going to log on.
01:12:21Matt, I haven't read
01:12:22the whole thing yet,
01:12:23but so far so good.
01:12:24I haven't read any of it
01:12:25because we win or lose.
01:12:26I think we won, man.
01:12:28Is that a slam dunk
01:12:29or what?
01:12:29It's a slam dunk.
01:12:31The statute and regulations
01:12:32that issue
01:12:32may be ascertained
01:12:33through the discovery process.
01:12:35We've just made history.
01:12:37We just made history.
01:12:42In our system of justice,
01:12:45we have and want to have
01:12:47a wide open door
01:12:48to the courthouse
01:12:49so that people who claim
01:12:52to have suffered a legal harm
01:12:55have a place to go
01:12:57to seek a remedy.
01:12:59This is really happening.
01:13:00We are really moving
01:13:01into discovery.
01:13:02This lawsuit is moving forward.
01:13:04This is another small step
01:13:05in moving the mountain
01:13:06to changing these things.
01:13:07and we have a lot of people
01:13:37and we have a lot of people
01:14:06A CIDADE NO BRASIL
01:14:36A CIDADE NO BRASIL
01:15:06A CIDADE NO BRASIL
01:15:31A CIDADE NO BRASIL
01:16:06A CIDADE NO BRASIL
01:16:07A CIDADE NO BRASIL
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