- 23 hours ago
Too natural for school? Too bold for the office? Too "unprofessional” for a job interview? For many young South Africans, hair is still tangled up with race, class, beauty, identity and belonging. In this 77 Street Debate, young people take over the conversation.
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00:07This week on the 77% Street Debate.
00:12You are in an African country and Afros are viewed as exotic and straight hair is actually
00:18viewed as native, right?
00:20Which is quite a perversion.
00:21Why are you different?
00:22Why is your hair like this?
00:24Why are you always only plating like this?
00:27Apparently, we are diverse, but when it comes to black hair, we're not as diverse.
00:31You teach in an all-man, all-boys school?
00:33Talk to me about the experiences there.
00:35Very restricted, nothing to do with individualism, anything stylistic, anything that is trying
00:42to make a statement, that's not allowed.
00:50Hello there, this is the 77% Street Debate.
00:53My name is Fatou Elika Moulouchi.
00:54In South Africa especially, hair is not just a personal style.
00:58It sells as a sociopolitical ground that mirrors the country's painful past of systemic oppression.
01:05So we are here in Johannesburg, South Africa, to ask a very simple question.
01:10Ten years after the Pretoria High School for Girls hair protest, what has actually changed
01:15in South Africa?
01:16I'm going to start with you, Denio.
01:18Let's go back to your experience as a black African girl.
01:22What was your experience like with your hair?
01:25So back in primary, I only had like 4C, 4C hair.
01:29So I would only plait throughout the whole year with my hair and then use fiber only on
01:36school holidays.
01:37What do you mean by fiber, for those who don't understand this?
01:40Oh, fiber is like your hair piece.
01:42Like this one here, right?
01:44Okay.
01:45Braids and stuff.
01:46Yeah.
01:46So I would only get that during school holidays.
01:49So that was kind of different because I would get my classmates new hairstyles, different
01:53hairstyles and that was different for me.
01:55I wouldn't call it bullying, but it was kind of, why are you different?
01:59Why is your hair like this?
02:01Why are you always only plaiting like this?
02:04You get what I mean?
02:05And I had a lot of ten rough.
02:07You know, I want to ask you, Nonto, tell me, as a black girl, what's your experience with
02:11your hair?
02:12Oh, very tricky.
02:14I went to a school where black girls couldn't keep their hair.
02:18We had to cut our hair like completely.
02:21And, you know, every time we had the opportunity to do our hair in December, it was like the
02:27biggest thing ever.
02:28It was such a big deal, you know?
02:30And so growing up, I had this relationship with hair where I really wanted to finish school
02:36so I could finally get to do my hair.
02:38So it was very political and very personal as well, you know, because all the white girls
02:43could keep their hair.
02:44Shiro, Anile, when they say that hair in South Africa is deeply political, what exactly are
02:49we talking about here?
02:51Well, I think there's something that informs your choice, right?
02:54The choices don't happen in a vacuum.
02:57It might be linked to desire or being seen as powerful, right?
03:01When you enter a space, you are perceived in a certain way.
03:05And before you communicate anything, you actually want to command the room.
03:10And so you want the hair to do the talking for you.
03:13And actually, sometimes when you do not want to enter into a space and seen as desirable,
03:19if you want to be taken seriously, for example, you might actually not want to put on a wig
03:25because you want this space to take you seriously in a different way.
03:30I don't know if that makes sense.
03:31Like, I don't want to be sexualized.
03:33I don't want to be desired.
03:36So I'm actually not going to dress up in that way.
03:38I want to enter the space and be a boss babe.
03:41Yeah.
03:43And Daniela, how do you feel about that?
03:45Do you feel you always have to wear your wigs to be seen as desirable?
03:49Is that a thing in South Africa as well?
03:51Where glamour is associated to the luxury wigs that people wear?
03:56The straight hair?
03:57I have this thing of being like a boss lady, you know?
04:02You call yourself the glamour doll, by the way.
04:05And I think I understand why you say Tyana Taylor is your style icon.
04:09You kind of have the same features somehow.
04:11Look at the drip, ma'am.
04:13Pip the drip.
04:16I'm kidding.
04:18Right now I think we have the privilege to choose whichever hairstyle that we have.
04:23When you have a wig on, it's just, you're playing around, you know?
04:27So after matriculating, I thought, okay, so I've been having my natural hair for so long.
04:34I'm into the beauty industry.
04:36Why not experience this?
04:38Explore.
04:38Because we do get those articles or blogs saying this kind of hair affects you.
04:44How, how, how.
04:44Frontals affect your scalp or whatever.
04:47So I had to see it myself and I did.
04:49I'm so happy.
04:50I do wear wigs whenever.
04:53But whenever I feel comfortable with my own hair, I do wear it.
04:56Yes, I do have a choice.
04:57Okay.
04:57She said something is shifting.
04:59Okay.
04:59Before I continue, a little bit more on that.
05:01Yeah.
05:02I do respect what Dina was saying from her personal perspective, but I don't think we
05:06all have the privilege to wear our hair the way we want.
05:08I think I'm going to start with the wigs.
05:10I think there's a class issue as well.
05:13So I've seen comments where people have wigs on and people are like, it's not male.
05:17It's not melting properly.
05:17It's not perfect.
05:18It's not HD.
05:19Your edges are not edging.
05:21Oh, especially like you get on social media, you see Americans hating on South African women,
05:25but you don't look at class.
05:27You don't look at how much it costs to buy a wig in a certain space.
05:30Also wigs represent something in different spaces like Anele was saying.
05:33Do you also think that this Eurocentric view, this on straightened hair, does it serve
05:38as a currency to proximity to power?
05:41Yeah, I do think it does, but I want to take a little bit back from South Africa's perspective
05:46on the hair politics.
05:47If you can remember, in South Africa, there used to be the pencil, I can't remember what
05:53they call it.
05:53The pencil test.
05:54Thank you so much.
05:55The pencil test during apartheid that they used to put into your hair to determine whether
05:59your hair was acceptable or not.
06:01And that spoke to a lot around identity as well.
06:04So we come from that history.
06:05And I think when South Africa turned into a democracy or a rainbow nation, what has become
06:11so strange is that we said we're embracing our diversity, but for some reason our policies,
06:16whether in the workplace or even in schools when you talk about the Pretoria Girls High,
06:19never changed.
06:20Apparently we are diverse, but when it comes to black hair, we're not as diverse.
06:24Alright, let's demystify it a little bit more and let me just come to you, Ronwyn.
06:28We talk about the problem here in South Africa and the whole pencil test.
06:33Has South Africa gone beyond the pencil test?
06:36Is the problem now manifesting in different ways now?
06:40So, from my own point of view, I think nothing has changed.
06:45Because there's always a certain way how a woman should look.
06:50It hasn't changed.
06:52And you know, for instance, I've got dreadlocks.
06:55Right?
06:55There's always a perception.
06:57I've had a couple of people just come and hug me because they want to smell if my dreadlocks are
07:02clean.
07:02You know, because there is a perception that someone who's got dreadlocks is pretty dirty.
07:08There's quite a lot happening there, but I just want us to go back a little bit.
07:13Because between the period of 2012 to where we are now, a lot has happened in fighting for black women's
07:20liberation.
07:21Where was hair in all of this, even before we come to what happened in 2016,
07:25when the girls went out, you know, to protest for their dignity?
07:29I think we've made a lot of progress when it comes to how black women's hair are perceived.
07:35In fact, the words that we used to refer to Afro hair was that it was exotic hair and it
07:41was not allowed in school.
07:42Which is very interesting because exotic means something that is not in its natural environment.
07:48And yet you are in an African country and Afros are viewed as exotic and straight hair is actually viewed
07:55as native.
07:56Right? Which is quite a perversion.
07:58Something very strange.
07:59So now I think there is space, there is room, or there is at least a conversation in my son's
08:05school.
08:06Interestingly enough, they are allowed to grow out dreadlocks.
08:10Is it possible, Aniele, for an African girl with the Afro to be considered a glamour icon in South Africa?
08:18Yes, 100%. I think there's definitely been a shift, right?
08:23Zozi Beanie was Miss Universe, the first Miss Universe that did not wear a wig.
08:27But we also have someone called Zizo Beta, who was Miss Teen, South Africa, decades ago.
08:34And she had dreadlocks.
08:36So I do think that beauty and the definition of beauty is very wide.
08:42Personally, when I make choices around my hair, because I believe in having choices as well, I've worn wigs multiple
08:49times.
08:50But I have to declare that I am uncomfortable with relying on wigs and depending on wigs because I do
08:59think it sends out the wrong message to young women and also to my boys.
09:04I have two boys and I want them to find black women attractive in an Afro, black women attractive with
09:12locked hair,
09:13which is one of the reasons why I decided that I wanted to be a natural hair bride.
09:17I'll come to that. Don't ruin it for me!
09:22You know, I just want to come to NIO and I had to take my time with this because I
09:26think we need to understand what the black girls are going through.
09:29How does it differ from the black boys? You teach in an all men, all boys school. Talk to me
09:36about their experiences there.
09:38Do they have to cut it short? Can they not do certain things? Just explain that a little bit more.
09:43I like to say if it's fun, you can't have it.
09:46You can't be cool here, you know?
09:49No, no, no, no. The whole point is that you're not supposed to stand out, you're not supposed to try
09:52and do something, make a big style decision with your hair.
09:55It's supposed to be very conservative and you're supposed to focus on the educational aspects.
09:59So, very restricted, nothing to do with individualism, anything stylistic, anything that is trying to make a statement, that's not
10:07allowed.
10:07He's in a very strict school for boys, I understand.
10:10Let me just come quickly to Prince. I wish you could see the back of his hair, very nice long
10:15hair, he's got their dreads.
10:17And you did tell me that when people see you, before they say anything, they, you know, approach you and
10:23give you this respect of your majesty.
10:25I do think the crown is so huge and beautiful. And for you, what does hair say about your heritage
10:32and just spirituality?
10:33When it comes to hair, hair is, that's you, resembles you. And then hair is an energy. And let's take
10:43it for instance, if I bring a woman home and she is in a corn row to introduce to my
10:52mom.
10:52What assumption comes to my mom's head? She's a local girl and she's very obedient. So hair represents you a
11:00lot. And then you have to, but the first thing you have to know is on hygiene.
11:05Because they said, um, cleanliness is next to godliness.
11:10We're talking about tidiness, cleanliness, and Ronwin mentioned in the beginning, how people are curious to see, or even, you
11:18know, smell her hair, because they want to know if it's clean or not.
11:21Who decides what's clean here? What's tidy here? Who even decides what's acceptable?
11:26Why do we have this in this 2026 as we speak?
11:31I think again, it goes back to our history. I find it very interesting that for women particularly, assumptions are
11:37made when you walk into the door based on your hair already.
11:40You know, he was talking about the school and the boys. And the first thing that came to mind was
11:44how, who determines what professionalism is?
11:48Who says that if my hair looks a certain way, I can't focus on education and succeed. I have a
11:52boy now who's busy. He's been asking me, why can't I grow my hair?
11:55I really want dreadlocks. We are now growing it. But I am actually anxious because I don't know how he's
12:01going to be treated because I've been treated different ways because of how my hair looks.
12:05Whether it's natural or when I have a weave on, when I walk in a room. If I'm having it
12:09natural, some people say, jar lady. There's a specific type of African man who gives me this type of misogyny.
12:17It's that idea that I respect you, but actually your hair represents that I can control you.
12:21Let me just come to that because he mentioned, she mentioned how sometimes men approach her and you know, this
12:26whole sexualized thing.
12:27And you're raising black boys. You're making an intentional effort of putting your black hair out there, your Afro hair
12:34out there so that your boys can understand what this is about.
12:36What is the reasoning behind that? And of course, as well as you were a bride and you decided to
12:43put out your natural hair, this is something that you don't see often.
12:47What is informing all these intentional decisions?
12:50I do understand for a lot of people to feel glamorous is to have the straight hair, but I've always
12:56felt more glamorous with my natural hair actually.
12:59So I decided I actually am going to be a natural hair bride and I had flowers in my hair
13:05and I just felt beautiful and badass.
13:08Yeah, like a princess.
13:10And obviously, you know, having sons, I also wanted them to feel that a black woman is most beautiful in
13:18the choices that she makes.
13:20Even if that means having an Afro out or having her hair locked.
13:25Yeah.
13:25And you have micro locks here. How long did they take?
13:29This took three days.
13:32No.
13:33And let's talk about caring for black hair, Nonto.
13:35How is it like for you? I know you also have your natural hair, even though you are having you
13:39with the fiber right now.
13:41How is it like for you?
13:42It is so difficult.
13:43One of the reasons why I even have this is because it's just so hard to take care of my
13:48natural hair.
13:49But at the same time, it's like I refuse to put on a wig or a weave because that's just
13:55not how I wear my hair.
13:56I would rather struggle with this Afro until I get to a point where I'm able to take care of
14:02my own hair.
14:03Oh, my God. I think that's something that a lot of us can relate to.
14:06Caring for our hair is not easy.
14:08I also remember how I struggled when I was a kid, not to talk of now, in fact, when I
14:12don't have time to do this.
14:14So how is it like? Is the care very accessible to everyone?
14:19Can, you know, the girl in the township have the means and effort to be able to invest what it
14:25takes to have this Afro looking all beautiful and healthy?
14:28Thank you. I think it's hard and it's hard mainly because the products, they're made too expensive.
14:35The salons are made too exclusive.
14:37When you walk into a normal black owned salon with my hair, they look at you like, oh, this is
14:43going to be a lot of work.
14:44I wanted to say at the same time, we need to actually sort of hold the beauty hair care industry
14:51accountable for its perpetuation of the stereotypes,
14:55for its perpetuation of the relaxer, for its perpetuation of the type of products that they put on the shelves,
15:00for its advertising.
15:02We need to keep it accountable. Every salon you go to in Johannesburg, it's wigs, it's weaves.
15:08It's a certain type of hair that is being advertised.
15:10Every salon you go to, we do need to call them to account because they are in South Africa and
15:15they're African and they have perpetuated to the system.
15:18All right. And by the way, we have our lovely guests join us right now.
15:23Eva, how are you doing? How was your morning? Like, of course, we didn't see you in the beginning.
15:27Hectic, hectic. So I had an appointment with my hairstylist and then she didn't pitch, so I had to wear
15:32the wig.
15:33So yeah, that's why I'm late.
15:35So what did you want to do with your hair?
15:38I wanted to, you know, rock my natural hair. I have very big hair. I have long, big hair.
15:43But obviously, salons open at nine, so yeah. And if I go to the salon at nine, then it means
15:49I'm done around one.
15:50So are you saying it's easier to wear the wig? Would you prefer to be wearing the wig on a
15:54daily basis compared to lighting out your natural hair?
15:58Yeah, I mean, for this one, I mean, you know, you can just wear and go. It's not glued on.
16:03But with the blue ones, it's very difficult because now the hair is on you and then for you to
16:09remove it, you have to, it takes hours. It's your hairline.
16:13So it's a whole thing. But this one is like the easy one because you can just wear and go.
16:16Let me just come to you quickly before you leave because she's leaving very soon.
16:22You mentioned to me some time ago when we had the call that your relationship with your hair is a
16:27love-hate relationship.
16:29Talk to me about that.
16:30So it's this whole texture conversation around the different textures.
16:34One of the things that I've learned about my own hair is that it makes its own rules, right?
16:39And I can't always control it. Eva was talking about how much time it takes to get her hair, her
16:43natural hair, to a point where it's acceptable or considered beautiful, even to my own face, right?
16:47Like what I have right now, it's not considered what would be, you know, to walk on stage with or
16:53what is acceptable as beautiful, right?
16:55But I did it on purpose, right? Just to make a statement.
16:57And for us to ask ourselves, why is this considered not acceptable?
17:00And I think the love and hate comes from the fact that it takes so much time, like we say,
17:04to get my hair to that standard.
17:06Sometimes I have to use heat. Sometimes I have to use product to actually get it to a point where
17:11it's blown out and looks a little bit more like how short it is now.
17:14If I had to do this, it's actually way much more.
17:17I remember someone telling me once that they kind of feel small when they let their natural hair out because
17:24it's actually short.
17:26And they want to wear big earrings and look a little bit more, you know, present because the hair doesn't
17:31just do that.
17:32Do you feel the same way, Danielle?
17:35It's the love and hate relationship also because my hair is so nice, I'm telling you, my hair is so
17:39nice.
17:40But it's also a length issue.
17:42I believe that if it was more, okay, it does have the volume, but the length.
17:48I do have the length of my mind on how it should look like, but it's not getting there.
17:55And I'm just like, okay, so I still have to play then and put on the wigs because apparently when
18:01you have your cornrows for too long, they do grow.
18:03And I'm talking from experience, judging from the time I cut my hair and now my hair has so much
18:11growth.
18:11But it's because of what? The wigs.
18:16It's not easy.
18:17She's talking about the length, you know, and do you think the media, social media, in fact, now is playing
18:25a huge role into these beauty standards?
18:29Of course, but this thing started when we were young, you know, in school people were like mocking people with
18:35like short hair.
18:36You know, I've always had long hair, so I never had problems.
18:39The only problems I have is like the maintenance and the time, you know, I just like to, you know,
18:44get ready and go.
18:45I don't like spending time at the salon. That's why I don't do braids. If I do braids, it's like
18:49a wig, a wig, you know, a braids, but with like on a wig.
18:53It's so for you, it's about time.
18:55Danielle, if I may just come to you, do you think you're perceived differently when you wear your wig compared
19:00to when you wear your afro?
19:02Like when you walk into spaces, even how men see you, how people approach you, what do you think?
19:07Men perceive me as a slay queen.
19:10I don't till today. Tell me a definition of a slay queen.
19:13I mean, like if only one person could define what is a slay queen to me, I'd be so happy.
19:19You know what I mean?
19:20So I'm just a girl, nothing more than that.
19:23She's just a girl. Emma, she just mentioned slay, and I know that's a big thing on social media.
19:29You are in that domain. I mean, what does it say about the dating life, you know, how you are
19:35perceived as well?
19:36I mean, men also contribute, especially when it comes to hair, right?
19:40But I know that when I have my afro on, that's the time, you know, most of the time, that's
19:45when I get, you know, asked.
19:46Yeah, men ask me out with my, I don't know why, but like, yeah, I don't know why.
19:50People always ask me out when I have my afro on.
19:52But like, my thing is, I know that braids and natural hair is not really considered beautiful.
19:59You know, most men prefer, especially now, like an install. You know, they call it frontal.
20:05You know what I mean? And the thing is, it's crazy because they don't even know how much that is.
20:09It's like, like I said, this one is just a way and go, right? That's why it's expensive because...
20:13That's glueless, yeah?
20:14Yeah, you can, and also, you know, the quality honey.
20:18So...
20:20So it's not, so it's not a week that you, you have to like, always install it.
20:2430 inches?
20:25I don't remember, but it's, you can see.
20:26But it's a bone straight.
20:28And that is very expensive, girl.
20:31This one was 18K.
20:32Okay?
20:33So, the installation I'm talking about, it's like, with the glue, ear to ear.
20:37Yes.
20:38You can only do that for a day.
20:39And it's like, 1K to 1.5.
20:41Imagine, every two days you have to do that.
20:43That's like, how many times?
20:45And where do the edges go?
20:46It will steal your hairline.
20:48That's why I don't do that, like, a lot.
20:50You know?
20:51Most, if you can go to most of the ladies, like, and just say, can I see what's underneath?
20:55They don't have a hairline.
20:57Because the glue eats your hairline.
20:59And that's a thing we need to talk about.
21:01People are not talking about that.
21:02You want the wigs on the girls and everything, the installs.
21:05But the consequences, we're not talking about that.
21:07The hairline is gone.
21:09It's gone.
21:09It's gone.
21:10I mean, Nia, as a man, how do you see the different hairstyles?
21:15When you see a woman in a wig, and when you see a woman in their natural hair, what does
21:21it bring?
21:21Like, what does it trigger in you?
21:23I have the good sense to keep quiet.
21:26Please.
21:26We want to hear your opinion.
21:29Yeah, I really don't mind.
21:31I think black is beautiful across the broad spectrum.
21:34So I don't have a discrimination on hair.
21:36Like, do you have a preference?
21:38No, I'm quite open.
21:40Braids, weaves, it's all cool.
21:42But you must choose.
21:43That's a diplomatic answer you're giving me.
21:47You wanted to tell me something.
21:49So considering we are talking about preferences here, I was like, let me also kind of like jump in.
21:55So I kind of have a preference.
21:57I don't think I can date a man who doesn't have hair.
22:00Because for me, it's like a, it's like a, like, even if I probably date, even if I date a
22:06white guy, I would date him with a man pony.
22:08You know, like, like Samson, Samson?
22:11Yes.
22:11It shows that you are, you are a man.
22:14I can't do the clean, the clean look kind of guy.
22:18I can't because that's, it doesn't work.
22:21It doesn't.
22:23Yeah.
22:23All right.
22:24So we are getting there.
22:26Let's just wrap it up quickly with where we are now.
22:29We've established a problem.
22:30We've established, you know, the things that continue to perpetuate this problem.
22:34There's the school.
22:35There are institutions, workplaces.
22:36But let's talk about what happened since the girls had their protest in 2016.
22:41That's 20, that's 10 years to where we are right now.
22:44What has changed?
22:46I think it's fair to say there has been some kind of change.
22:51But I think there's also still room for growth and improvement.
22:54I think the policies and rules in schools have, you know, kind of let go a little bit of these
23:00strict rules around hair.
23:03Girls can now braid.
23:04And I think even in Pretoria, if I'm not mistaken, Pretoria Girls School, I think they changed the code of
23:08conduct.
23:09And girls can now wear their braids.
23:11So I do think we are moving somewhere.
23:14Whether the pace is slow or not is probably the question.
23:18I do think girls feel more confident to embrace their hair and how they look like.
23:24But I think we can get farther than where we are or further than where we are.
23:29I know that other countries like the U.S. have the Crown Act, which of course is there as a
23:34form of legislation to encourage this openness to all kinds of hair textures and styles.
23:40It doesn't get more political than that.
23:42But do you see something similar happening in South Africa or what is there that can happen to make this
23:47even better?
23:47To be honest, I think we spend too much time on hair.
23:51As black women, we need to just free ourselves.
23:55So I wonder if introducing legislation of this kind is actually going to create more of an attachment to hair.
24:01I think we spend a lot of time being beautiful and wanting to be beautiful.
24:06I honestly sometimes wish that we would spend so much less time being invested in the beauty politics.
24:16Because I think it just takes away from you as an individual and it also makes us very competitive.
24:21Against each other.
24:23Against each other.
24:23Yeah, okay.
24:24Against each other.
24:25One last.
24:25Is it possible for black women to move away from this question of hair being associated to trauma, struggle, discrimination,
24:36to the space of beauty, love, fun, and just luxury, imagination?
24:42Is that possible as we speak now, Daniil?
24:44I think it has to start with acceptance, you know, because there's always going to be noise.
24:51You do it or you don't do it.
24:53So I think it's up to an individual.
24:56It's your choice.
24:57You get what I mean?
24:58And I feel like I'm repeating it again.
25:01I feel like now we do have the privilege.
25:03We do have the rooms, you know, so it's generally up to you.
25:08Absolutely.
25:09I think it's possible for women to move from that space and embrace their hair without attaching it to politics
25:16or anything like that.
25:17Just express yourself.
25:19Feel beautiful in the way that you look and accept your hair for what it is.
25:24Lovely.
25:25I think we have it.
25:27That was quite a lot.
25:30It's mind blowing what can come out of a conversation like this.
25:34And I think from what we've heard, hair is clearly deeply political as we speak right now,
25:39because it can determine who is considered desirable, who even gets the opportunity.
25:44But that can clearly change.
25:45And it starts with all of us here and you.
25:48Thank you, too, for watching.
25:50Bye-bye.
25:50Bye-bye.
25:52Bye-bye.
25:52Bye-bye.원
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