00:00These are the days that I live for, right? When something goes right, even though I was really
00:05worried about this trial reading out, which is what? This trial is taking some mutations,
00:12identifying mutations in the tumors of patients who've had them removed. So you have melanoma,
00:18you're lucky enough to have been caught early, you do surgery, you debulk the tumor, you use that
00:23in their labs and their AI systems, et cetera, to identify what they call neoantigens, things that
00:29are more prominent in the tumor cells than not. Put that in a vaccine, mRNA vaccine, give that back
00:36to the patients, and at the same time, administer the Merck immuno-oncology drug that unleashes T
00:43cells if they find those mutations. So why were we worried? It's a new technique, it's really hard,
00:51this is a disease where you get a lot of good response, even as it is, with therapy, with the
00:57removal of the tumor, with Keytruda itself. This is against Keytruda alone, right? That immunotherapy.
01:03So, and they say, although we haven't seen any numbers, that it's worked out here. So I think
01:09what's going on with Moderna, I'm going to speculate here, right, is that there is some
01:13major short covering. That squeeze is quite massive, right? 135% last time I looked. You're
01:19seeing it jump in other RNA names, Arcturus, BioNTech, up 23 and a bit percent, because
01:26they're all trying to do the same thing. The question really is, how good is this data? We'll
01:32find that in the next few months, I'm pretty sure. And then, can you say it's going to work
01:37in other tumors? And I think that's a bit of a leap of faith. It's going to take some,
01:43melanoma is the easiest step forward. So, but still, let's celebrate today.
01:48Sam, I'm so curious about the share movement of Moderna. Can you tell me a little bit about
01:54whether or not you feel like the share move justifies this news? We're looking at Moderna
01:59reaching its best day on record. Tell me a little bit more about how you see this moving, fitting in.
02:06Just to remember, though, in the heydays of the COVID vaccines, this thing was traded at 400,
02:12I think, even. I don't know what the chart up here. Over 400. But those were funny days,
02:18weird days, right? Nobody knew how to size this. Here, there is speculation, a lot of conversation
02:24in our industry chat with investors, that there is short covering going on. And you might just
02:31see, actually, the stock's taken a little bit of a step back from the 135% up that it reached.
02:37There will be some short covering. I think the better way to look at it and see the impact of
02:41this is maybe looking at Merck. But even there, I think there could be some short covering and some
02:45relief rally that actually maybe Merck has got the ability to get through this Keytruda
02:50patent expiry that's coming up.
02:52So, availability. When do you think this new drug or this new application can be approved and get into
03:00the marketplace?
03:01I love the way that you struggled with that, Paul, because this is not a drug.
03:05It is, you go in and you have to have it prepared for you. It takes weeks. They take your
03:11tumor,
03:12you go home, you get whatever therapy you get. And in the meantime, they're trying to identify what's
03:18different in your tumor to develop this vaccine for you. So, it's a personalized new antigen therapy,
03:24INT. So, individualized new antigen therapy. So, what do we call this? So, it's got to be funky
03:31manufacturing. I'm pretty sure they'll fix it and figure it out. This is Merck we're dealing with,
03:36not just Moderna alone. So, that's how this works. And how will it be priced? I don't know. I'm pretty
03:43sure, depending on the efficacy benefit or the benefit magnitude, they'll price it accordingly.
03:48I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back at, I don't know, $300,000, $400,000, $500,000 a year.
03:55$300,000, $400,000, $500,000?
03:57Yep. That's what these drugs are being launched at these days. I can't tell you for a fact because the
04:02company's never talked about that.
04:03So, what, I mean, when you talk about a number like that, how does insurance play into that? Don't you
04:09have
04:09to get insurance to buy off on this too? Yeah, it's very hard for insurance. Insurance can start
04:15not paying up for your GLP-1 because the benefit is so far away. But in cancer, they tend to
04:21just
04:21accept it, right? And that is a conversation that pharma companies need to have. At what point do you
04:27stop constantly raising the bar on the price, right? Now, let's be honest and fair here. They are making
04:34significant difference to people's ability to live.
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