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00:04All right, okay, I'm talking today with Mr. Cal Abrams, former Al-Qua and first baseman for the Dodgers and
00:10several other clubs.
00:13Cal, to get started, I'd like to, if possible, ask you, how did you have to get started playing baseball?
00:20Well, I actually got started in high school.
00:24My last year with James Madison and I in Brooklyn, New York, happened to be a scout by the name
00:33of Jola Bate in the stands when I hit the longest home run in the history of Madison.
00:40And I was graduating that year and he came up to me and he said, how would you like to
00:43be a Brooklyn Dodger?
00:45Well, I don't know if you're aware of it, but every human being, every male human being who was born
00:53and raised in the shadows of Ebbets Field always wanted one thing in life and that was to be a
01:00Brooklyn Dodger.
01:01I was no exception.
01:04Did you play like any little league or organized ball, or just play like some street ball with your friends
01:09and stuff like that at all?
01:10No, I played, well, I was an all-around athlete, but in our day, there was no such thing as
01:17little league.
01:18We had stick ball, punch ball, and what have you, touch tackle, and I was good in all of the
01:26sports that I've tried.
01:27But my father says, Cal, the most money is in baseball, so you're going to be a baseball player.
01:33What positions did you play while you were in high school getting started? Did you play a lot of positions?
01:36I was an outfielder primarily, but I also played first base, and believe it or not, I even have one
01:44win, no losses as a pitcher for the Dodgers.
01:47That's great. Really? That's for the Dodgers?
01:49For the Brooklyn Dodgers, yes.
01:51How did that happen?
01:52We were 14 games ahead mid-season, and Charlie Dresson one day asked, who knows how to pitch?
02:01Who would like to help save our, preserve our pitches for the forthcoming pennant?
02:06No, I was always a kibitzer and a clown and a good-for-nots, you know, very carefree.
02:14And I said, I can pitch. He said, all right, go on out there.
02:18Of course, I wasn't used to stepping down off a mound, and after I finished the game, I had like
02:24a Charlie horse.
02:25I was limping all day. I wasn't used to that.
02:28Because there was an answer. How did your arm feel after that?
02:30No, my arm was fine. In fact, I did have a very good arm.
02:35Between Carl Farillo, who played right field, and myself, who played left, as good as Duke Snyder was,
02:46our bullpen coach, Clyde Soukforth, once made a statement that between Abrams and Farillo, they could cover the outfield.
02:56Yeah. And that was a great compliment for me. My arm was good. Farillo's arm, well, I don't know if
03:03you know about the Redding rifle.
03:05There are good stories.
03:06And he played that 297-foot wall like nobody else could.
03:11And no one went from first to third on a base hit because he'd throw them out.
03:17When you played your games for Madison High, was there a field right there you played in, or did you
03:21play a field revolving around the high school?
03:23How was that set up for you guys?
03:24You know, they had, right next to our field was a dirt baseball field called St. Anthony's.
03:34And it's very funny because last week, I live in Miami, in Florida right now, and the Miami Herald was
03:43talking about the old days in Brooklyn,
03:46and apparently the fellow who was writing it was talking about East 2nd Street and Avenue M, where I live,
03:53the Claridge Theater, where I went into the movie house, James Madison, where I went.
03:58And it was like reliving my own life. Very, very strange.
04:04Was there a specific person, you mentioned your dad, but was there someone else when you were a kid or
04:09as you got into high school who kind of directed you into baseball?
04:13My dad was my key. Right behind our home, we had a big lot with weeds and what have you,
04:21and he would call three or four of the kids that would stay out in the outfield,
04:26and he would pitch for hours while I batted, and then he had a catcher's mitt, and I would go
04:32on the mound and throw.
04:33So I got all of my initial work in baseball there.
04:38Then in high school, the manager and teacher, Artie Wunderlich, was a wonderful person who recently passed away,
04:48also gave me a lot of instruction and help.
04:53And I received a contract from Jola Bate from high school for $75 a month to play in Olean in
05:05the Pony League,
05:06but the series was on. There was only two weeks left to the year, and I had to wait until
05:13the season was over.
05:15Unfortunately, the right fielder broke his leg running around in the rocks and the holes up in Olean,
05:21so they whisked me up there.
05:23I played two weeks, and then I was drafted in World War II at age 18 for three years.
05:30Now, when I came back out of the war, because I still had a contract with my initial or name
05:37on it,
05:37I was a slave to that $75 a month.
05:41I could not go to any other team, so I had to stay with the Brooklyn Dodgers.
05:46So you were acquired by the Dodgers.
05:48Joe LeBake was a scout that signed you right out of high school.
05:50Right.
05:50You went to Olean, then World War II, so you came back. Where did you go?
05:53Okay. They all had Vero Beach spring training, all the minor league clubs,
05:58and because I was much older and stronger, they decided to skip C and put me in B,
06:07Danville, Illinois, in a three-hour league. I hit .337.
06:12So they decided to skip A and put me in AA, which was Mobile, Alabama, and I hit .345.
06:20So they decided to skip AAA and put me in the major league.
06:25But in Brooklyn, on that particular year, there were 13 outfielders trying out only for left field
06:33because Snyder and Ferrello had that sewed up, center and right.
06:39Now, Shulman, Sharman, Antonello, McCormick, Russell, Hermansky, myself, and a few other guys.
06:45I cannot remember their names.
06:48And Mr. Branch Rickey said, Cal, do me a favor.
06:51Go down to the minor leagues.
06:53Go back to Mobile.
06:54Have a good year, and I'll get rid of a lot of outfielders.
06:59So I went back and hit .327.
07:01I came back up for spring training again.
07:04The same 13 guys were still there.
07:06He said, do me a favor.
07:07Go back to Fort Worth, Texas.
07:09So I went down there.
07:11I hit .327.
07:13And he brought me up again.
07:14And then he said, go to St. Paul, Minnesota, because there was only eight outfielders.
07:20And being the third time that I had been optioned down, the next time they recalled me,
07:26they cannot send me down anymore, either trade me or keep me.
07:32And as luck would have it, Carl Farrello got beamed by a pitch from Sam, from Sal Magley.
07:42And they recalled me instantly from St. Paul.
07:46And the day I got there, I figured, well, this is my big chance.
07:50So I'm now going to be a real Brooklyn Dodger.
07:54But Carl Farrello had a head.
07:57He was an Italian with a strong, strong head.
08:00And he was playing the next day.
08:02So I sat on the bench in 49, waiting and waiting and waiting.
08:06And I was really wishing that I could have gone back to the minors,
08:09because I'm the kind of a person, as a leadoff man, I like to play every day.
08:16I like to get up five times, and I will get two hits or three.
08:22But when you keep me out of a ball game, a little staleness falls into place.
08:28And you're not as sharp as you should be.
08:31And although I did have a good pair of eyes, I could tell a ball from a strike.
08:36So 49 went and left me, and 50 was my first real chance.
08:41And by the way, mid-season, mid-July, I was hitting .477.
08:49And I was leading both leagues by well over 150 points.
08:55Jackie Robinson was second on the club.
08:57And the headlines, never forget them, Mantle, Schmantle.
09:02We've got Abrams, which I have in my scrapbooks.
09:07It was a great feeling, a wonderful era.
09:10And coming back off a hot road trip mid-July,
09:15and coming back to play three days in Brooklyn with 100 relatives and 100 friends in the stand,
09:22I looked up at the scorecard, the lineup.
09:25I wasn't playing.
09:27And I never played a game the rest of the season,
09:31except to pinch hit in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and two out.
09:35And I once went to pinch hit for Pee Wee Reese, who had two strikes on him,
09:41which is something I have never seen in the history of the game.
09:45I didn't either.
09:46Okay.
09:47Well, I didn't know at that time, because I was still basically a young, naive, innocent person.
09:54And I used to say, why are all these little things happening to me?
09:58I'm leading the league.
10:00I can end up with a 400 batting average easy, and I'm not playing anymore.
10:07Years later, I discovered that the manager, Charlie Dressen,
10:11really didn't want me to hit and be the club top person,
10:16but he wanted to win the pennant without me.
10:20He even let me pinch hit against a left-handed pitcher.
10:24I'm a left-handed batter.
10:26In those days, we had the two-platoon system.
10:29So I discovered now that he was giving me enough rope to hang myself.
10:34Instead of being the kind of a person I could look up to,
10:39you can guess the rest from that point on.
10:41Speaking of managers, what manager did you play for that you most respected?
10:46Well, let's put it this way.
10:47With the Brooklyn Dodgers, I played for three managers,
10:50Leo DeRocha, Bert Schotton, and Charlie Dressen.
10:56Charlie Dressen, I have to call him an anti-Semite.
11:02Bert Schotton was the kind old man of baseball who didn't even put a uniform on.
11:08He just sat in there with his clothes on, never did anything but put up a lineup,
11:13did never call for a steal or a hit-and-run.
11:17We did that on our own.
11:20I and Pee Wee Reese had our own signals.
11:22I would run from first on a hit-and-run.
11:25We played like no other team played.
11:27Everyone else was governed by a manager or a coach or whatever.
11:31And Leo DeRocha, I have to admit, was a super baseball manager.
11:40He knew the game.
11:41He was a rough-and-tumble.
11:44But there were certain things that he did that I cannot discuss that were very nasty.
11:50And I will never forget what he did to me at one point.
11:54But as I said, he was a good manager.
11:57And I didn't mean to limit that to the Dodgers, because I know you also played for Baltimore.
12:02Okay.
12:02You played for Chicago.
12:03And I'm starting to go up to.
12:04Fine.
12:04My theory, my opinion, a manager does not win or lose ballgames.
12:14In my estimation, a ballplayer does.
12:16Because the nine men on the field, regardless of who's the chief of the tribe, is not the
12:26one who is winning or losing the game.
12:28He can't stop a man from making an error.
12:31It's the error that caused the loss.
12:34So it's that fellow who lost the game and not the manager.
12:37It's not because the manager had a man steal and he was thrown out at second.
12:42If the man was faster, he would have been saved.
12:44You know, there's a lot of things.
12:45I played for Roger Hornsby, who was a superb baseball player.
12:52Superb.
12:53He hit over 400, but he was not a manager.
12:57I played for Paul Richardson, Paul Richards, who was not only the field manager, he was
13:05the general manager, too.
13:06Why?
13:07Because he was getting $40,000 from the front office for that and $30,000 for the coach.
13:13So he was doing two jobs in one.
13:15He was not a great manager.
13:18Jimmy Dykes, I respected this man.
13:22He was a great, great man.
13:24He did know the game.
13:26He was well-loved.
13:27I played for him in the Orioles.
13:30The last day of the season, I was hitting .299 point something.
13:35My first time up, I hit a triple.
13:37That put me a little over .300.
13:40And we all would love to end up hitting .300.
13:44That's the magic charm.
13:46So standing on third base, I said to Jimmy, Mr. Dykes, Mr. Dykes, do me a favor.
13:52Take me out of the lineup.
13:54Let's pull a Mickey Mantles job here.
13:58Let me stay out and hit .300.
14:00And his answer was, with a smile, Kyle, I don't care if you have two broken arms and two broken
14:07legs.
14:07You're playing the rest of this game.
14:09The next two times up, I almost killed the pitcher with two long drives that were knocked
14:15down and I was thrown out.
14:16So I ended up hitting below .300.
14:19I still respect the man, though.
14:23You mentioned some of the time that you spent in the minor leagues.
14:26Can you give me a little insight into what life was like in the minor leagues for you
14:28at that point in time?
14:29Oh, my God, when I tell people of the things that I have seen in my 67 years of living,
14:39they don't believe what I saw.
14:42For example, going through Georgia after spring training, working our way north for exhibition
14:50games, riding in the bus with our five black players sitting in the back of the bus and
14:56stopping at a little cafe which we call a Greasy Spoon.
15:01The first sign you see outside the building, no niggers allowed.
15:08I would turn around to the guys and say, would you like a drink, a sandwich?
15:11Can I get you anything?
15:13And they appreciated that.
15:16None of the other fellows ever had that common sense, is the word I'm looking for, to ask
15:23these fellows.
15:24All they were interested in was running into the bathroom, relieving themselves and then
15:28getting a sandwich and a drink.
15:32And we played an exhibition game in Fort Benning, Georgia and another one on the way to Atlanta
15:42during a barnstorming in the winter.
15:46Now, Fort Benning, we had 35,000 soldiers watching the game and Atlanta, we had a pre-sell-out
15:55crowd of 15,000 people.
15:58And the minute we loaded ourselves onto the buses, there was a telegram.
16:03If Jackie Robinson arrives in Atlanta, he will be sniped from the ballpark sign, the Ku Klux
16:09Klan.
16:10We immediately turned the buses around, went home and finished our barnstorming tour at
16:16that point.
16:17These are things that nobody knows about, and we worried, we were scared to death, too.
16:24How about for yourself being, as you said earlier, a Jewish guy?
16:29You mentioned playing in Mobile and in Fort Worth, Texas.
16:32How were the fans, the teammates, the front office personnel, supported above you because
16:37you were playing so well, or was there some anti-Semitism that you had to struggle with there?
16:40No.
16:41When I was up with the Dodgers, one of the options down to the minor leagues was to play
16:47back in Mobile, and the newspapers had big headlines, Cal Abrams coming from the major
16:52leagues to help win ball games for Mobile Bears.
16:57So I was practicing in the outfield, and a farmer was sitting there, and he called me
17:03over.
17:04And I figured, I assumed he wanted an autograph, and he says, I read in the paper, you're a
17:10Jew.
17:11I said, yes I am.
17:12He says, well what are you, Jewish Protestant or Jewish Catholic?
17:16And I said, oh my God, I'm in a territory here that doesn't, you know, that was in that
17:21era.
17:22Then, when I played for Bobby Bragan in Fort Worth, Texas, my wife and I and child, first
17:31child, flew down from New York in an eight hour flight in those days.
17:38And the president of the club, Mr. Reeves, met us at the airport and was driving us in his
17:45limo back to town to go to the hotel to sleep.
17:50And we had to pass the ballpark, which was being played.
17:53The game at night, the lights were on and shouting hooray, hurrah, and he said, would you like
17:59to go in and see Bobby Bragan and the club and see what's going on?
18:04I said, if you don't mind, we're very tired, I'd like to get some sleep.
18:07We went to the hotel and the next morning, I came down to get the paper and Bobby Bragan,
18:15our manager, was there and we shook hands and he says, Cal, this is crazy, but I have
18:20to tell you, we have to go on the road for two weeks.
18:25And the schedule was supposed to be at home for two weeks.
18:29I said, why are we going on the road?
18:31My wife is here with a baby and doesn't know a soul.
18:33He said, somebody burnt the ballpark down, all the metal, all the wood, everything burnt
18:40down to the ground.
18:41And this, I said, but you played a night game.
18:44Well, right after we finished the night game, somebody torched the stadium and we had to
18:49go away for two weeks.
18:51While I was away for two weeks, they had a typhoon.
18:54They had levees breaking and water running through the Fort Worth town and bacteria and my wife
19:02had to go for shots and I couldn't believe this was happening.
19:06After all, we were little Brooklyn, New York people, nothing like that ever happened.
19:11These are just some of the quaint stories that happened.
19:14So overall, though, your teammates and stuff were pretty supportive.
19:17You didn't have any of that sort of...
19:18No.
19:19No.
19:20No.
19:20We ballplayers, because we were Dodger minor leaguers, they played as Dodgers.
19:26We were...
19:27I had some wonderful fellas.
19:29Carl Erskine was on my team.
19:31Preston Ward, Toby Atwell, fellas who did have some time up in the big leagues also.
19:40George Shuber, and a few other people.
19:44Chuck Connors, the rifleman.
19:46He was my roommate.
19:47We had a lot of fun.
19:48Oh, yeah.
19:49A lot of crazy things happened.
19:52So in 49 was the first time that you really got a chance to spend some extended time with
19:56the ball?
19:5650.
19:5750 was the first time.
19:58But you were caught up in 49 when he was beaned.
20:01Right.
20:01He got beaned in 49.
20:02Did you...
20:03Were you up there at the end of the year when you guys battled the cards down at the last
20:07game of the season and beat them?
20:09Were you still with the team at the end of the year?
20:10In 49?
20:11Yes.
20:12And tell me a little bit if you can about...
20:14I don't recall too much of 49 though, because I was disappointed in not playing.
20:21And all I was doing every day was getting dressed and sitting on a bench and waiting for
20:25something to happen that never happened.
20:27So I was really downhearted.
20:30Only by playing do I remember what was transpiring.
20:34Okay.
20:34Let's talk for a little bit.
20:36Sure, go ahead.
20:36I was going to ask you, you know, the Ebbets Field in those days was a colorful atmosphere.
20:41Very.
20:41Do you remember your first at bat, first coming to bat at Ebbets Field?
20:45I believe I got a walk the first time.
20:47What was your impression when you came out?
20:49I loved Ebbets Field because all the people, no matter where they were sitting, were so
20:57close to the ballplay that they could almost touch them.
21:00You could hear people talking to you while you were at bat.
21:03We were not only a family as a team, but the people around us were also part of the family.
21:10And it was a wonderful relationship.
21:13But, you know, the people in Brooklyn are a very rare breed.
21:18You know, they say, out of the mouths of babes come pearls.
21:23We were playing in Brooklyn for three solid weeks.
21:27And after each game I'd come out, there would be at least 200 kids with the penny postcards
21:33waiting to get your autographs.
21:35And this one particular boy always managed to be the first one.
21:40And, you know, after three weeks I'm saying to myself, what, why does he need 21 Cal Abrams?
21:48So I grabbed him before a road trip and I said, why did you ask for my autograph three weeks
21:53in a row?
21:54He says, I needed 21 Cal Abrams to trade for one Carl Farrell.
21:58Well, these are the way outfield.
22:01We had such a wonderful rapport.
22:04Another incident.
22:07We had what we call Happy Felton.
22:10That whole game.
22:11You take three youngsters in the outfield before a game, practice with them, and pick one of the three.
22:19For this you get $50.
22:22He, the youngster, is allowed at that point to talk to a Dodger of his choice in the dugout
22:28and whoever they talk to gets $50.
22:31So there's $100 that the TV people are giving away or the Baby Ruth candy bar.
22:37And I never went on the show.
22:40Robinson was on 40 times, so that's $2,000.
22:44Hodges and Reese also.
22:46The last week of the season they said, all right, Cal, you're going on.
22:51And I said, it's about time.
22:54And I went a whole, they showed me the three youngsters and I said to one of them, I said,
23:00listen.
23:00I whispered in his ear, I'm going to pick you.
23:03Now when they ask you who you want to talk to in the dugout, you say you want to talk
23:09to me.
23:10That way I get $100.
23:12So here I'm throwing the ball up and down and finally Happy Felton says, who do you like, Cal?
23:18He says, oh, this youngster right here.
23:20What a pair of hands, great ball player.
23:22Oh, he's going to make a Brooklyn Dodgers or something.
23:24He said, congratulations, son.
23:26Who do you want to talk to?
23:27He says, call for roll.
23:29I couldn't get $50 no-how.
23:32I was one of the least priced ball players in the leagues in those days.
23:38So you mentioned the Evers Field, your love for it.
23:40Was it your favorite park overall in the big leagues?
23:42I believe it had to be, not because the money was secondary.
23:49None of us ever did get money because Branch Rickey, as I said, had a heart of gold.
23:55He knew how to hide it.
23:57The highest price that I recall was three or four of the fellows making $40,000 at that time.
24:04And the lowest minimum was five, and quite a few of us were making only five.
24:09But he always drew a million people.
24:11And that's another thing I have to tell you about Evers Field and the Brooklyn people.
24:16Monday, if there was a ball game, it didn't matter.
24:19There was enough people in there to warrant one million people in a 29,000-seated ballpark.
24:28And that meant that they loved the game and they wanted it to go on and on.
24:33And when they moved out in 1957, a lot of hearts were broken.
24:37A lot of people were angry, and they still are.
24:40They still blame Peter O'Malley, who had nothing to do with it.
24:46It was his father, Walter O'Malley, who did it.
24:49And yet the Brooklyn people still dislike intensely Peter O'Malley, the O'Malley family.
24:56When you got up to the big leagues, was there a player who kind of helped you out or took
25:01you under his wing at all,
25:03an established guy who kind of showed you the ropes at all?
25:06No.
25:07As a matter of fact, I was considered a loner because, number one, the religion had something to do with
25:15it.
25:15Number two, as much as I liked all the fellows on the team, they were all clicked off.
25:22Hodges had his associate.
25:25Hermansky had his.
25:26Jackie Robinson had his.
25:29And I would be rooming on the road by myself because they had doubled up with other fellows.
25:35So I was more or less a loner.
25:37But I spoke Spanish, and Mr. Rickey decided that if he ever gets Spanish ballplayers,
25:47he would have them room with me so that I could teach them English while we were playing.
25:53And, of course, as I said before, I enjoyed life.
25:57I was a happy-go-lucky person.
25:59I clowned around a lot.
26:01And I think that's what kept me going.
26:04The motivation was there by laughing a lot.
26:08A man one time said to me, a ball player from the opposing club said, I wish I had your
26:13nose full of nickels.
26:15And I was leading off that day, and I said, I wish I had to fill up pennies and I'd
26:19be a millionaire and then get a base hit.
26:21But this made me feel super, you know.
26:25But with the Spanish boys, we would go into a restaurant, and he would say in Spanish, how do you
26:33get the waitress to come over and I want apple pie with vanilla ice cream.
26:38And I loved that.
26:39So I said, well, her name is Screwball.
26:42He'd say, hey, Screwball.
26:44And when she comes over, you say, give me apple pie a la commode.
26:49And he'd yell it out, and she'd laugh, and the people around us would laugh.
26:53And so then he would look at me and say, you no damn good.
26:58We're on the Pullman Burt's of a train.
27:00And he says to me, as we're all going to retire, how do you say it to the guy?
27:05Good night, sweet dreams.
27:06I'll see you in the morning.
27:07And I would say something very nasty.
27:10And he would yell it out, and they would look at him.
27:13And again, he would say, you no damn good.
27:15And this is what kept me going.
27:17You mentioned Branch Rickey.
27:19If you could tell me a little bit about some of your dealings with him personally.
27:22How were they?
27:23Oh, terrific.
27:25Number one, one year I had a fair year.
27:30And we were going to spring training.
27:32And I decided I would wait until spring training to sign.
27:36Now, they gave us transportation on the train to Vero.
27:40And we got there.
27:42My wife and I put our luggage in the room.
27:44I walked across to his office.
27:47Hello, Mr. Rickey, how are you?
27:49I'd like to sign a contract, but I'd like to talk to you first.
27:53I'd like a $500 cost of living increase.
27:59Not because I was a great ball player and had a good year, but because I need to eat.
28:04My family is starving to death.
28:07And he says, with no, his eyebrows, thick, bushy eyebrows still down.
28:13Did you unpack yet?
28:14I said, no.
28:16He said, good.
28:17Get back on the train.
28:18Go back to Brooklyn and wait until I call you.
28:21I went back to my wife.
28:22I said, May, I didn't sign.
28:25And he said, go back to Brooklyn and wait.
28:28My wife said, number one, I'll divorce you.
28:31Number two, we haven't got ten cents to pay for our fare back.
28:35Number three, go kiss his big toe and sign for whatever he gives you.
28:39That's the way we had to play our games in those days.
28:43Not like today.
28:44No arbitration, no union, no nothing.
28:48Tell me a little bit about the 50 season.
28:51It was a pretty exciting season.
28:54The Dodgers had a very fine team.
28:56You had been playing quite a bit, as you mentioned earlier.
29:01And then there was that famous play in the last inning of the season
29:05where Richie Ashburn threw you out of the play.
29:07Give me some of your reminiscences about the season.
29:10Well, the season was going along very, very well.
29:13And we were very hot.
29:14We were doing a great job.
29:16But, unfortunately, we ended up tied with the Philadelphia Phillies.
29:23And the ninth inning, I got a base hit.
29:28Pee Wee Reese was to sacrifice me and bunted the ball so perfectly that he got a hit.
29:34Now, we had a man on first and second.
29:37Nobody out.
29:39Ties score on the winning run.
29:43The next man up is Duke Snyder.
29:47The catcher, Stan Lapata, gave Robin Roberts the pitcher to pick me off at second base.
29:57That sign was flashed to the outfielder, Richie Ashburn, who immediately started to charge in to back up a bad
30:07throw at second getting me so that I could not advance the third.
30:12Nobody knew about this except Richie Ashburn.
30:16Our coach, Milton Stock at third base, had seen the outfielders and their present positions.
30:24And then he was watching Duke Snyder.
30:27And Roberts missed the pick-off sign and instead threw the ball home.
30:33Snyder had a line drive past my head and a shot.
30:38And I knew in my own mind that if everyone were playing his rightful position, I would have scored simple.
30:45I was very fast.
30:47I started on my horse.
30:48I'm running toward third base.
30:50And the first sign that Milton Stock had flashed was to go ahead with his right hand.
30:58Then when he discovered where Richie Ashburn was when he spotted him and seen that he had already thrown the
31:07ball home and that the catcher already had the ball,
31:11he gave me a sign that I will never forget the rest of my life.
31:15He put his fingernails of his left hand in his mouth while he gave me a half sort of a
31:21go-ahead sign from third.
31:24I had already rounded the base as hard as I could.
31:28And when I got like 10 to 20 feet past third base, here was a catcher up the baseline with
31:37the ball.
31:37I could not stop and go back.
31:39I was out.
31:40So the only thing I could do was run into him and try to knock the ball out.
31:45Unfortunately, I didn't.
31:47And I was out.
31:49Kofrillo got up and popped a foul for the second out.
31:54And then Gil Hodges hit a long fly up against the wall for the third out, which I could have
32:00scored from third base had I stopped it there.
32:02And we would have won the game.
32:04In the 10th inning, top of the 10th, Dick Sisler hit a home run over my head.
32:10And when we got up, we couldn't catch them.
32:12And that's the way that season ended.
32:14So I lost some money that year.
32:17The next year, the same thing happened with the Giants.
32:20And Bobby Thompson hit a home run against Ralph Blanca.
32:23So I lost some more pennant and World Series money.
32:26And the year after that, 1952, in the middle of the season, they traded me to Cincinnati and won the
32:34pennant.
32:34So I lost three years in a row.
32:37As I said before, money does not agree with me.
32:40But after you traded, you had one of your finest seasons after that.
32:43Yes.
32:44After the seasons, and I started playing for different ball clubs, they were good enough to say,
32:50Well, Kyle, you're worth a little more, so we're giving you this and this.
32:55So I did make a few extra dollars as I proceeded through Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and the Chicago White Sox.
33:03When I reached the White Sox, I was there two weeks.
33:07And they told me that I was going to play center field because they knew I was a great outfielder.
33:14And I liked it because the White Sox were always a pennant contender.
33:19And there I could get some extra cash.
33:23Unfortunately, they bought Larry Doby from Cleveland.
33:26They called me in the office and they said, Well, Kyle, look, we can only keep one of you.
33:30If you were the owner, who would you keep?
33:33I said, I would keep the leadoff man because he gets on first base, he's got good eyes, he's fast,
33:38and he can score runs.
33:40And they said, That's true.
33:41But a home run hitter is what the people would rather see.
33:45So, unfortunately, I was sent to Miami.
33:50Larry Doby had the worst year in home run production that year.
33:54And not that I was happy.
33:55Here I was in the minors again.
33:57And I could see the handwriting on the wall that there's no way in the world I was going to
34:02go back up into the major league.
34:05And the condition that arose at that point which made me decide to retire was when the minor league club
34:13came to me and said,
34:14You're a great ball player, but we can only offer you X number of dollars in the minor league.
34:20And I said, I have a family.
34:21I cannot take this after making a much more profitable amount of money.
34:28So, that's when I voluntarily retired.
34:31And because I was nice enough to get out of the game gracefully, I've been rewarded with little perks now
34:38and then.
34:39But the true perks have come 35 years after I left, such as coming to the old timer game here
34:47today, getting on cruises and doing baseball talk.
34:52So, I'm very happy with what my life has set out to be.
34:57And I'm happy doing what I'm doing now.
35:00How was it when you were traded from the Dodgers to Cincinnati, being with a club that was always a
35:05pennant contender going to,
35:06I believe Cincinnati at that time was a 6th place club.
35:09Did that really shock you?
35:11Was that like a blow to your psyche at all?
35:13No.
35:13Did you get a chance to play?
35:14No.
35:16There was a situation there that nobody really understood.
35:20First of all, Branch Rickey left the Dodgers and went to the Pirates.
35:25Branch Rickey had already put a $1 million price tag on me for sale a long time ago.
35:33Now, when he called the Dodgers, they said, fine, we'll sell them to you.
35:38Give us a million dollars.
35:39He said, you're crazy.
35:41I'm not going to give you a million dollars for Cal Abrams.
35:43Well, he called Gabe Paul in Cincinnati and said, if you buy Cal Abrams, I promise you I will make
35:51a big trade with you in the winter, which happened.
35:56But the funniest thing is, I'm playing in Cincinnati.
36:00We've got three games.
36:02First day, I put my Dodger uniform on.
36:04I go out.
36:05I do a good job.
36:06Second day, I do the same thing.
36:07Third day, I'm putting the uniform on.
36:09Somebody taps me on the shoulder.
36:11Take the uniform off.
36:12Go next door.
36:13We just traded you.
36:15That's the way they did business in those days.
36:17So, now I'm playing with Cincinnati.
36:20They said, you'll play right field for us.
36:22I'm in right field.
36:24Ted Kuzusi was our first baseman.
36:27I have to tell you this one incident, which makes me feel good.
36:31And Jackie Robinson got up.
36:33He hit a line drive to me on a base hit.
36:37And it was one of those perfect jobs where the ball gets into your glove very quickly.
36:42And I didn't care who was watching.
36:45I decided this might be an error.
36:48It might be the wrong thing to do.
36:50But I know what Jackie Robinson does.
36:52He rounds the base hard.
36:54He can stop on a dime.
36:55If you bobble the ball, he can continue.
36:58I took the ball without thinking.
37:00And I flung it as hard as I could directly at Ted Kuzusi.
37:04The ball hit him in the chest hard.
37:08And it rolled on the ground.
37:10It didn't bother him though.
37:11He's so strong.
37:12Meanwhile, Jackie had stopped on a dime.
37:14And when he knew he was out, he was scrambling to get back.
37:17Of course, he was safe because Kuzusi was watching to see that he touched the bag.
37:23And when he got himself up and brushed himself off, he turned around and looked at me in the outfield.
37:28And his pearly white teeth were flashing.
37:31And I knew he was talking to me and saying, you're a god damn good ball player.
37:35It was an honor and a good feeling that I got.
37:39But as I said, I didn't know I was going to Cincinnati.
37:43It was really to go to Pittsburgh.
37:46And true to his word, I did end up with Pittsburgh at the end of the season.
37:50And he traded me for Gus Bell, who was a heck of an outfielder.
37:56What was it like when you went into Pittsburgh at that point in time?
38:00They were, again, another team that was struggling.
38:04How did you get a chance to play a lot with them?
38:06And tell me a little bit about Fred Haney, if you would.
38:09Fred Haney was a wonderful guy.
38:11He was okay.
38:11We had Ralph Kiner there.
38:14We had Frank Thomas.
38:16And I had a wonderful relationship with the ball club and the people.
38:20We made some great friends in Pittsburgh.
38:23But that wasn't to be my home for the rest of my baseball era.
38:29Although, I hit 280 and had 15 home runs as a lead off man.
38:36So when I went into Branch Fricke again and said I'd like some more money, he would look down at
38:42the statistics and said to me, quote,
38:45I can't give you more money because you hit 15 home runs.
38:49I didn't ask you to be a home run hitter.
38:51You're a lead off man.
38:53I wanted you on first base.
38:56And that's what happened.
38:58You're a lead off hitter.
38:59Could you describe to me your hitting style?
39:02Okay.
39:03I was the type of a hitter who didn't break his wrist until the last moment.
39:09That way, my bat was always level and going through this way, and then I broke my wrist.
39:14Therefore, when the bat met the ball, it was slightly on an angle that the ball would ricochet toward center,
39:24left center, and left.
39:25A lot of people would say, Cal is not a pull hitter, but he's getting his base hits by hitting
39:32to the center and left side of the field.
39:35One year in Fort Worth, I was batting 384 at the end of the season with a month to go.
39:45And Mr. Rickey flew down, and he said, Cal, I want you to be a home run hitter.
39:50I want you to play.
39:51You're going to be in Ebbets Field.
39:52It's a short right field fence.
39:54I want you to turn your whole body around and face the pitcher, literally face him.
40:01And when that ball comes, I want you to pull it.
40:03It was such a hard situation for me to stand this way, looking at a pitcher and still pull the
40:10ball.
40:10I was missing it.
40:12I was striking out, and with maybe 20 days left, my average dropped way down.
40:17I said, that's it.
40:19I'm going back to my old stance, and I ended up hitting 327.
40:25Got many hits one after another.
40:27What was your strategy as a leadoff here to really work the pitcher, get him deep in the count, or
40:33just look for whatever you could do?
40:34What was that sort of strategy for you?
40:35Well, as I said once before, I did have a good pair of eyes.
40:39And the umpires, knowing this, bore down a little better than they would with the average ball player.
40:45If a ball was two inches inside, they knew it was a ball, and I was taking it.
40:50It was a ball.
40:51And they knew that if it was a strike, and I didn't swing, they're going to call it a strike.
40:55But I was not a guess hitter.
40:59And for this reason alone, I never swung at foolish, stupid pitches like I have seen so many times in
41:08the past.
41:09If a man is thinking fastball with two strikes, and the pitcher throws a curve in the dirt, and the
41:18man swings at it, to me, that is not a good ball player.
41:22That is not a good ball player, and they don't deserve two, three million dollars.
41:26But I very, very rarely ever swung at a pitch in the dirt.
41:33And I very rarely swung at bad pitches.
41:37The only time I would swing at a bad pitch was when there was a super, super speed, and the
41:44ball was rising.
41:45We had a few fellows that could throw hard, a ball fellow.
41:49And if they threw it, like, letter high, if I stepped into the ball and swung, it wasn't letter high
41:56anymore.
41:57It was shoulder high.
41:58And then I said, okay, from now on, watch that rising, watch the step, and you will not swing at
42:05that.
42:05I talked to myself.
42:07And I considered myself a good hitter, not a great hitter, because if I was a great hitter, I would
42:15have been pulling balls also.
42:18When was your strategy on an 0-2 pitch? Anything special?
42:22Two strikes?
42:24Well, if you started out, let's say the pitcher started out with a curveball, and it was a strike.
42:30And then he threw another curve, and it was a strike.
42:34The next pitch, no matter what it was going to be, was going to be a waste.
42:38It could be a fastball on the outside part of the plate, or a good curve.
42:43But very rarely can the guy get three strikes in a row on three curves.
42:48I don't know too many pitches that could do that.
42:50So now it's two and one, one and two.
42:53Next could be a fastball.
42:54I might swing it, foul it off.
42:57Next pitch could be a slow curve, which I would time and punch over the shortstop.
43:03I would not, I don't try to kill a ball.
43:07I don't try to hit home runs.
43:10And yet in Little Rock, I hit a 600-foot home run.
43:15Of course, in those days we had what they call a 98 baseball, and the air in Little Rock, Arkansas,
43:24is very clear and crisp, and the balls travel an awful long way there.
43:32How about on a 3-0 pitch back then?
43:36Being a lead off here, would they ever turn you loose?
43:38No.
43:39No.
43:403-0, they did not want me to hit.
43:42And there were a lot of times that I had quite a few walks.
43:46I was a walker and a singles hitter.
43:50Eddie Stanky, who preceded me, was a superhero because he would, with two strikes, keep punching the ball foul until
43:59he finally got a walk.
44:01I didn't have to do that.
44:02I had the eye, and I had the hitting ability, so I wasn't worried about that.
44:07I was also very fast, and I knew a lot of times when I hit a ball at the more
44:13chop to the shortstop, I'd have a base hit.
44:16Not like today.
44:17I see them thrown out by two steps.
44:20So I figured, well, these fellows are getting so much money, they're reading so much, they're so big and strong,
44:25they can't run as fast as we did because we were hungry.
44:30How about once you were on base, did they give you the green like to steal a lot? Was that
44:34part of your game strategy?
44:36When I played with the Brooklyn Dodgers, we as a family would give our own signs.
44:44Pee Wee Reese would give me a sign by picking his nose, and I would run on a hit and
44:50run, and he hit the ball at second base.
44:53Duke Snyder and Reese and Hodges, they had their own signs too.
44:58There has never been a ball club, as far as I know, where the baseball player himself was the manager,
45:07where the whole team did their own hit and runs, taking, hitting, so on and so forth.
45:14And today it's so obvious where the coach at third looks into the dugout, he gets a sign, maybe the
45:22manager isn't giving it,
45:23because everybody's watching the manager, so he has a man with a towel around his shoulders, over sitting on that
45:30end of the bench,
45:31giving the signs, and it's fluctuating from back, forward, back, forward, and all this.
45:36To me it's ridiculous, and it isn't necessary for the manager to, you know,
45:42all right, take this one, take this one. It's not right.
45:47We did our own thing. Also, when a man is on second base, if he can catch the catcher's signs,
45:54we would give the sign to the batter, this is a fastball, or this is a curveball.
46:00Because there are quite a few ball players who cannot hit fast pitches and curveballs, you know, they're off stride.
46:09So if he knew a fastball was coming, he would get into it better.
46:14Do you feel that, I don't even know if you had him back in your day playing like a hitting
46:18coach or your manager or something like that,
46:20could they help you or hurt you as a hitter once you made the pros during your time?
46:23No, the only one that hurt me was Branch Rickey that one year by turning me around to face right
46:29field.
46:30Other than that, no one had ever come to me because, in all honesty and modesty, I was a hitter.
46:38I hit well enough. I was like a Pete Rose when he hit the left field because he could hit
46:46the right field too.
46:47As the years went by, I started to pull a few balls. I had a couple of home runs deep
46:53in right and right center field.
46:55And I was very happy to do it. I guess maybe it was because it was a change up or
47:01a pitch off stride pitch to get me off balance.
47:04But I did it.
47:06What do you think causes a slump for a major league hitter?
47:11I don't think that there can ever be a true answer to that.
47:15It's just going constantly every day, day in, day out.
47:20You know, sometimes you can overtrain for a fight.
47:23Sometimes you can be playing too much and you're over.
47:28There's something about you that is missing one thousandth of an inch.
47:34It could be the eyes. It could be the wrist. It could be the swing. It could be the stance.
47:39I went to one ball club. I believe it was Detroit.
47:45And when I was leading off, I touched the plate, looked at the pitch's mound.
47:50And I said, hey, this rubber is a little cockeyed.
47:56And everybody told me I was wrong.
47:58But then when they looked, they said, sure enough, the rubber is there straight ahead.
48:03But the point of home plate was facing almost like shortstop.
48:08And when I stood at that plate, I was very uncomfortable.
48:12And the umpires were calling certain balls strikes when they were really balled.
48:18So I made sure that they knew and I had them turn it around.
48:22You feel things. You sense things.
48:33Because you don't go down.
48:35You know what I would say?
48:38You sound like.
48:39You sound like.
48:39You just said, you were that?
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