00:00As with everything Live Golf, there's a lot of subterfuge, there's a lot of cloak and dagger.
00:06No one knows anything, to quote William Goldman talking about Hollywood.
00:11They have an investor, they won't say who it was, news broke that it's BC Partners.
00:16They are aligned with this sports management agency called GSE Worldwide,
00:22which has funneled a bunch of top players to Live Golf, including Bryson DeChambeau.
00:27So this makes sense, but the framework of the deal is obscured.
00:34They have a term sheet, they have it shared.
00:36This is always how it goes with Live Golf, you never get the full picture.
00:41So we're all waiting to find out.
00:44The question is, they will get a cash infusion here.
00:47How much and how long will it sustain the tour?
00:50Because the business model is not working right now.
00:52It's just a startup that has been incinerating cash for four and a half years now.
00:58So they're going to slash the purses, they're going to terminate the payouts that they owe the players.
01:05But even at that point, can they make enough revenue just to keep the circus going?
01:10That is the unknown right now.
01:12I'm going to read from that statement and all of its vagaries here.
01:15Live Golf has an agreement in place with a lead investor, signed by the investor, approved by the board to
01:20anchor the transaction,
01:21play a key role in supporting the path forward for the league's next era, driven by and for the players.
01:25We anticipate finalizing terms in the coming weeks with the goal of entering a transaction in September.
01:31Could you just explain the predicament that Live Golf finds itself in?
01:35So still a fairly new league here.
01:37You mentioned the cash burn that we've seen play out here since its inception.
01:42How badly is it doing?
01:44So the predicament for Live is that the business model needs big stars.
01:49But the big stars want guaranteed money.
01:51They don't have the money to give.
01:53So can they keep the stars?
01:54And can the tour exist without the stars if there's no guaranteed money?
01:58It's this circular problem.
02:03There's no doubt there at this point it seems likely that there will be a Live Golf in 2027.
02:09The era of decadence is over.
02:11These guys are no longer going to be living like Louis XIV.
02:14It's going to be a nice little golf tour with smallish purses, with a very small footprint, playing 10 events.
02:23As a game-changing, disruptive force, those days are over.
02:27So Live 2.0 appears that it will have some foothold in the golf world.
02:34But how relevant it's going to be will depend on if they can hold on to their biggest stars, which
02:42is really Jon Rahm and Bryson DeChambeau.
02:45And they're offering them equity in this new league to stay.
02:50But, you know, cash is king.
02:52And whether these guys want to, in the prime of their careers, want to pledge themselves to a B-list
02:57circuit where there's no guaranteed payout, that is a big ask of players who have, you know, a finite amount
03:02of time to make their hay as professional athletes.
03:06So there's so many questions.
03:09I think we can say that there will be a Live Golf in 2027.
03:12But what it's going to look like, who's going to play it, and if anyone's going to pay attention, those
03:17are the big questions.
03:18And, like, who is watching it?
03:20Because I will admit I'm not the biggest golf fan.
03:22You're not.
03:23Shush.
03:24I will confirm.
03:25Shush.
03:25Confirm that.
03:26But it just didn't seem like there was really a need for this to be disrupted.
03:30Like, no one was asking for this.
03:32No one was, like, clamoring for this.
03:33And when you look at the ratings, I mean, the PGA Tour's audience on an average day is, like, 17
03:40.78 times larger than Live's final round when it comes to TV audiences.
03:44What was the goal here?
03:46Well, it was an exercise in soft power by the kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
03:50Live was never really about golf.
03:52It was about sports washing.
03:54It was about a regime that wanted to launder its reputation and wanted a foothold in the Western world.
04:02And golf was a useful vehicle for that.
04:04And that is the starting and the ending point of what Live Golf has been.
04:09Everything else is just noise.
04:11Now, with the Saudi Public Investment Fund divesting, now Live has to stand on its own just as pure competition.
04:18And that's where, as you know, they've struggled.
04:21When Live has played international tournaments, they've done pretty well.
04:24When they go to Australia or South Africa or Korea, they've been cagey about picking markets that have not had
04:30big-time golf.
04:31And when they take the show on the road, they have created some energy in those markets, and they have
04:36had good turnouts from the fans, and they've created some positive buzz.
04:41But they're looking at playing five international events and five domestic next year.
04:47The tournaments in the U.S. have been utter disasters because, as you say, the sports fans in the United
04:53States were not clamoring for another golf league.
04:55They barely support the PGA Tour, which is a proud American institution that's been around since more or less the
05:001920s.
05:01And so for Live to try and play half its schedule in the U.S. to me seems like a
05:07miss.
05:07They should go completely international, and then they have a chance to succeed.
05:11But, you know, the BC Partners is based in the U.S., and so the people who are putting the
05:16money in, they want to have some tournaments here.
05:18So it's just a struggle for Live Golf.
05:22Even when they had some of the best players in the world, they couldn't attract an audience here.
05:27Now they've lost Brooks Koepka.
05:29They've lost Patrick Reed who are already coming home to the PGA Tour.
05:32There's a good chance to lose more players next year.
05:34So that is the ultimate question.
05:37For Live to succeed as a standalone entity without the endless cash infusions of the public investment fund, it has
05:43to generate interest among fans.
05:45And that's been an uphill battle from day one.
05:49Alan, let me linger lastly here on that, this kind of schism that we've seen in golf.
05:53And you mentioned that Live 2.0 is going to be this kind of dressed-down, smaller league compared to
05:58what its aspirations were and what it was for a time.
06:02I imagine the PGA Tour is feeling pretty good about this, and I'm wondering just in terms of competition here,
06:07where there is any whatsoever.
06:10I mean, the case before was, as you mentioned, players could go to Live and make a lot more money.
06:14If this is a slimmed-down version of what they'd aspire to be or were, how do they make that
06:18case to players?
06:19Is it just inevitably going to lead to more defections, do you think?
06:21Yeah, there is room for Live Golf.
06:24I mean, four years ago before Live Golf arrived, there were only four events on the PGA Tour where the
06:30purse was bigger than $10 million.
06:32Like $10 million used to be an incredible purse, and that's kind of what Live is targeting for next year.
06:38So it could be the second or third-best tour in golf, potentially.
06:43But the problem is because of this battle for the soul of the sport, and Live has been somewhat radioactive,
06:53there are not pathways of movement.
06:56In professional golf, it's much like baseball.
06:58There's the big leagues, there's AAA, there's AA.
07:01And so you play in Asia, then you play in Europe, then you come to the PGA Tour.
07:04That's the dream if you're a young, aspiring player.
07:07And Live is frozen out of that system now.
07:10So you can go and play these tournaments, but you're not going to have the ability to upgrade and to
07:16move freely.
07:18And that's really its problem.
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