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00:00With us now, we'll go to New England. Taylor Kyle's with us to talk Patriots and Bills.
00:05Training camp, of course, well underway at this point. Taylor is the beat reporter for Patriots CLNS.
00:11Thanks for joining us, Taylor. Mike and Chris here.
00:13Thanks for having me, fellas. How are you doing?
00:15Great. Thanks for asking. You're welcome. Glad to have you today.
00:19Let's go back a year. So the Patriots end up on, I mean, a pretty magical ride last year.
00:26And to some, it was a big surprise. Maybe not to everybody.
00:30What would you say for yourself in this way, Taylor?
00:32How surprised were you that the Patriots had the year they had?
00:37I will say, I was one of the few people who thought they were actually, I had the prediction of
00:4113 wins last season.
00:43And to be fair, a lot of that was the strength of the schedule.
00:46And the fact that I felt with the infrastructure of Mike Vrabel, his staff, Josh McDaniels,
00:51being able to mentor Drake May and some of the major acquisitions they had.
00:55I thought that they would be able to beat some of the, you know, more inferior competition they played.
01:00And also, when they played more competitive teams, actually be in the game and not get embarrassed.
01:05And I will say, I didn't expect them to have quite as many blowouts as they did.
01:09So the style of winning was definitely a big surprise.
01:12But even more than that, I think the fact that they were able to stay healthy
01:15with the amount of stability they had on the coaching staff was a big reason they got as far as
01:20they did.
01:20I don't think it's, you know, saying anything crazy that they did get a little bit lucky in the playoffs.
01:25You know, you played quarterbacks who typically played much better, who I think were injured
01:30or for whatever reason played some of their worst games.
01:33And Drake May wasn't great through the playoff run.
01:36And the defense and one game at times really had to carry him.
01:39But I think by the end of the season, that might have caught up for him a little bit.
01:43But I wouldn't say it was a huge shock that they were successful.
01:46But for them to get to the playoffs and get as far as they did, that blew, I think, everybody.
01:51Yeah.
01:51I liked them, too, like by the over-under.
01:54Imagine Taylor here picking 13 wins and ending up low.
01:59Right.
02:00Pretty good.
02:01I mean, they started one and two.
02:02Yeah.
02:03It did really work out well for them.
02:05I mean, even right at the very end, Taylor, I mean, they're a Brandon Cook's reception away
02:11from probably hosting, they would have been hosting the game, but still hosting Josh Allen
02:16and the Bills in the AFC title game.
02:19Instead, they got to go to mile high but face Jarrett Stidham, which I think you would probably
02:24take 100 times out of 100, even though you've got to travel.
02:27A thousand times out of 100.
02:29I did not want to have to face the Bills.
02:32And, I mean, it was kind of a different reason.
02:34I felt that the Broncos were a more well-rounded team and Bo Nix was complimentary, whereas
02:38the Bills, I mean, Josh Allen was just playing out of his mind on a team that really, and
02:43I think personally for years, has not done quite enough on the offensive side of the ball.
02:47Outside of the run game, I love the Bills run game.
02:49But in terms of weapons and guys he's thrown to, just not quite good enough.
02:53And the defense, you know, being held together by duct tape with Sean McDermott doing the best
02:57he could to hold that unit together.
02:59So, yeah, I got to say, especially after that second pass Bills game, there was a part of me
03:03that wanted a rematch, but my brain was like, you know what, I think the Broncos are the
03:07better draw.
03:07Well, you mentioned in talking about the year they had last year, the schedule, and that's
03:12a lot of the focus here.
03:14I mean, it's the summer, so, you know, we're just easing into training camp here, but the
03:18schedule is harder, of course.
03:22Even though, it's funny, they ended up in first place, but those crossovers, I think
03:28still favor them over the Bills, in most cases, with Pittsburgh having won the division, and
03:33the Bills draw Baltimore instead.
03:35Even Seattle, by the odds, is like the Rams.
03:37Yeah, right, with the Rams, yeah.
03:38Looked like the tougher game.
03:39So, what do you feel like, what's the way forward for them?
03:43Like, is there some regression expected because the schedule's so tough, or do you think that
03:49they'll just get out of bed and win 12 or 13 games again?
03:52Yeah, no, I think we definitely see a regression in the schedule because, well, I think A.J.
03:57Brown gives them a better chance in some of those games that, before he was acquired, I
04:00really would have considered a toss-up.
04:02I have way too much respect for the slate of opponents they're going to face to think
04:05that they get to 13 or sniff 13 wins.
04:08Maybe they squeak out 11, but even 12, I would be very uncomfortable.
04:12I think it's more likely, honestly, that they get more towards 9 than 10, especially
04:16when you consider, again, the injury luck that the Patriots were able to have last year.
04:21But I don't think we'll see regression in the quality of play in the team.
04:25I do think that as a team, we see them take a step forward and not be, you know, the
04:29kind
04:29of organization where when they make it to the playoffs, if they have success, everyone's
04:33going to be wowed and kind of think of it as a fluke.
04:35I think that they've addressed enough positions of need, especially in premium positions, although
04:40edge is still a little bit of an uncertainty, good to give Ackis back.
04:44But I think that they're good enough where if they beat good teams, people won't be surprised
04:47anymore.
04:48And it's just going to be okay.
04:49Can you maintain this?
04:51Can it go through to the playoffs?
04:53Can you stay healthy?
04:53All those things that are important for teams as they get late in the season.
04:57But yeah, I definitely think we see a step back in terms of their record.
05:00But I don't think you're going to be looking at the 2026 Patriots and thinking that they're
05:03worse than they were last season.
05:04You mentioned that May wasn't so great in the playoffs.
05:08How much, if at all, has that dampened expectations, if it is at all?
05:14Because it's only a couple of games and the body of work in the season.
05:17I mean, he was an MVP candidate, so there's no arguing.
05:19He had a great year schedule or not.
05:22But again, it wasn't great at the end.
05:25And I don't know, is that part of the learning curve?
05:27Like, how is that being, I don't know, explained if it is?
05:31Yeah, I absolutely think it was partially a learning curve.
05:34I mean, he was playing three of the best defenses in the entire NFL with, again, an
05:38offense that was solid and very well coached, but didn't maybe have the talent to really
05:43put them over the top where they could compete more consistently, especially considering
05:47that Drake May, look, one of the smartest young quarterbacks in the NFL.
05:50I could not talk enough during the regular season about how effective he was against
05:54the skies look, how good he was about picking up the blitz.
05:58I mean, he was one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL by almost every metric.
06:01But then when you get to the playoffs, it's not just good schemes.
06:04It's not just good players.
06:05It's both.
06:06And I think when you add on the fact that Drake was suffering from a shoulder injury, that
06:11combination is just tough for any second-year quarterback to really overcome.
06:14So I don't think anybody was discouraged.
06:17But I will say that if the Patriots do make the playoffs again, now with this slate of
06:21opponents, I think he'll have seen enough that you have more confidence in him in the
06:26playoffs because, you know, he's going to end up playing some of the best defenses in
06:29the NFL.
06:30But he's also going to have to prove that when the lights are the brightest, he's able
06:34to step up his game.
06:35And yes, he was an MVP candidate last year.
06:37But as someone who watches every snap of Drake May's career and nitpicks so that I can
06:42praise him when he gets better, there are still areas where he's going to have to grow
06:45and he's going to have to prove that he is a guy who, you know, you expect your best
06:49players to pay the best in the best games.
06:51Needs to show that he's that guy and not just someone who can beat up on the bad teams while
06:55making just enough plays to beat the good ones.
06:58You know, he's got to be consistent.
06:59And that's what I think people will be looking for if the Patriots get back to the playoffs.
07:02Big moment, I would think, for him last year was winning here the Sunday night in week
07:07five.
07:08And that really kind of, the Patriots had started one and two, beat Carolina big.
07:12And then now you're in the race after winning in Orchard Park there like the Patriots did
07:18big Stefan Diggs night that night for New England.
07:21With Taylor Kyles, Mike Shope and the Bulldog on WGR.
07:24So now it's A.J. Brown.
07:26And it seems everybody has an opinion.
07:28Taylor, like, what's the consensus?
07:31Everybody loves the player.
07:32He's had a great career.
07:33Maybe he's still got it.
07:35Maybe the knee is a concern.
07:37Some weird personality stuff emerged in Philadelphia, not necessarily on him.
07:42But it's there.
07:43And then I would say from the outside so far, kind of like, what's fair?
07:49I mean, it's the first week of training camp.
07:50I don't want to, maybe I shouldn't even use a word.
07:52But it's not all good so far, it seems like, the reports on their timing and how it's looked.
07:57Let's turn to you here, Taylor.
07:58What do you think of any of that?
08:00And what are your expectations?
08:03Yeah, I wouldn't say there's any kind of buyer's remorse or anything at this point.
08:07A.J.
08:07Brown has been a model citizen since he's been in Foxborough.
08:10Both he and Mike Vrabel kind of downplayed the knee.
08:13Now, whether or not they're being truthful, I don't know.
08:15But it hasn't really shown up as a concern.
08:17And Mike Vrabel is very adamant about giving veteran players rest days when he feels he needs it.
08:22And we've seen that.
08:23Like, Morgan Moses has been very limited this summer just so they make sure they're not putting too much on
08:28his plate.
08:29And, you know, eyeing his load management.
08:31But A.J.
08:32Brown's been heavily involved.
08:33So it's not like we're seeing him take, you know, entire periods off or anything like that.
08:37He left early during practice the other day.
08:40But that was something all the veterans are doing.
08:41Christian Gonzalez did as well.
08:43And in terms of the negative reports, a lot of that was the fact that early on, as expected,
08:48A.J.
08:48Brown and Drake May were having some trouble connecting downfield.
08:51Now, in the short area of the game and in the red zone, they looked almost automatic.
08:56Like, that was fine.
08:57But in this Patriots offense, it's not just about getting on the same page as your quarterback.
09:02It's also about being able to adjust to the picture that the defense gives you both before and after the
09:08snap.
09:08That's a lot to think about, especially for A.J.
09:11Brown and Romeo Dobbs, two guys who came from offenses that weren't quite as complex and didn't ask for quite
09:16as much post-snap reading and communication and understanding and things like that.
09:21So the further you get downfield, the more that chemistry matters and the less A.J.
09:26can just use his size to necessarily win because the ball needs to be in a place where he can
09:30at least catch it and then be on the same page.
09:32And it feels like that's an area where I think both of those guys have really started to show growth.
09:37A.J.
09:38Brown beat Christian Gonzalez deep last week.
09:40So you're starting to see a little bit more rapport on some of those vertical routes.
09:44I didn't ask about Romeo Dobbs, but it was a similar situation with him where he and Drake May either
09:49just weren't getting any targets together or they weren't connecting.
09:52And that's another thing we're starting to see change.
09:54So, like you guys said, it's just a process of training camp.
09:57Like, it's so early, there are going to be things that we're laughing about that we hope we're a little
10:02bit dramatic about at this point in the season.
10:03But it feels like a pretty natural progression given the offense that A.J.'s in now.
10:07That's a given.
10:08That's always a fun exercise going back after the season's over.
10:11Like, what are we talking about actually in August?
10:14I think Dobbs is a really sneaky move.
10:17Well, not sneaky, but I like it.
10:19Not high-end like Brown is.
10:21But I feel like he's good.
10:23I think he can do what Diggs did.
10:25I mean, that was 1,000 yards, not necessarily predicting that.
10:29But I like him for New England.
10:32Yeah, the fun thing is these are two veterans with Josh McDaniels who's not going to just have guys be
10:37stagnant, right?
10:38Like, last year, A.J. Brown spent 90% of his snaps on the outside.
10:42I think Josh McDaniels is going to kick him inside a lot more.
10:45I think Romeo Dobbs.
10:48Dobbs, for the Packers, was more of an X receiver, but not the traditional one where you just see them
10:54outside the numbers winning one-on-one.
10:55He was really close to the numbers, so it was almost more like he was a slot receiver in some
11:00ways because of the area of the field he was working in.
11:03But in this system, they're going to play every receiving position.
11:07There's going to be certain packages where they're in kind of funky spots as well to give defense a different
11:12look.
11:12And you can do that because these are two guys that have been in the NFL for a long time.
11:16So once they're able to understand the route tree and be on the same page with Drake May, it's just
11:20about, okay, now how do we put them in the best position to succeed and to stress out the defense
11:25so they can't really get a beat on where these guys are.
11:27So the Romeo Dobbs signing I was already excited about because, like you mentioned, I think he can do a
11:33lot of the same things that Stephon Diggs was doing.
11:35But we're also going to see those guys move around the formation.
11:38And it's going to be tough for offenses to not just defend them but actually find them on a snap
11:42-to-snap basis.
11:43Did I see something today about Brown and a dislocated thumb that he played through at practice today?
11:50Oh, yeah.
11:50So that one was pretty – I was looking right at it.
11:53So Christian Gonzalez went for a two-hand jam on A.J. Brown.
11:57As soon as he made contact, you saw Brown trying to pull up, and Drake May throws the ball anticipating
12:02a fade.
12:02Christian Gonzalez picked it off.
12:04But A.J. Brown stayed in.
12:06He caught, I think, three slants.
12:07He was heavily involved still.
12:09But I will say Christian Gonzalez has been a thorn in his side.
12:14This is the best summer that I've seen from Christian Gonzalez so far, not only as a professional off the
12:19field but on it as well.
12:20He's a really tough dude to complete a pass on if you don't have a perfect throw.
12:25He and A.J. have gone back and forth.
12:27I think Gonzo's won more of those matchups.
12:29And there was even a play late where there was a tunnel screen near the goal line that the Patriots
12:33love.
12:33It's usually a walk-in touchdown for them.
12:36Christian Gonzalez has seen that a lot.
12:38And he recognized it, fired downhill, and broke up a play that, again, is usually a completion at least.
12:43So that's been a really fun back and forth.
12:45But A.J. Brown showed his toughness early on to be like, yeah, my son might be out, but I'm
12:50good.
12:50I'm still going to stay in there.
12:52One last thing on receivers from me, anyway, Tyler.
12:56From following you and a couple of other Patriots reporters, it feels like Kayshaun Boutte has been sort of a
13:02spare part.
13:03And they're not really sure what's going to – what's the endgame there?
13:08Like, does he have a role or are they going to spin him off?
13:12So, on paper, he does have a role.
13:14And he's still mixing in with the first offense.
13:16He really was their ISO or X receiver from last season.
13:20But, obviously, A.J. Brown does that.
13:22But even when A.J. was in Philadelphia, you would see packages where A.J. is the one near the
13:27tight end,
13:27kind of close to the formation on run plays, where Devontae Smith would be the X receiver,
13:32kind of outside the numbers.
13:33That's how we've seen it work out when Kayshaun and A.J. are on the field together.
13:37Once again, A.J. to the tight end side, Kayshaun Boutte is that, you know, ISO outside receiver.
13:42But it feels like over the past few practices, Kayshaun Boutte's participation with the top offense
13:47is starting to dwindle in favor of more snaps for Romeo Dobbs.
13:51And, look, at the beginning of camp, you could see that Drake May and Kayshaun Boutte had not missed a
13:56step.
13:56They picked up right where they left off.
13:58And at the time, it felt irresponsible to move Boutte because Drake wasn't connecting with A.J. Brown or Romeo
14:03Dobbs.
14:04But as that rapport has started to build, I mean, Kayshaun Boutte is mostly repping with a second offense.
14:09And for a guy who was only catching a couple of passes a game last season, and he's in a
14:14contract year,
14:15it makes the most sense for Kayshaun to go somewhere where he has more opportunities to make the most money
14:19he can.
14:20So my prediction is that he ends up traded.
14:24I'm not sure when.
14:25But obviously, with it being this point in the season, injuries happen.
14:29Trade value can fluctuate based on that.
14:31So I don't think the Patriots are in a rush because they don't need to trade Kayshaun.
14:35And if, God forbid, somebody in that room got injured, you would be really glad that you had somebody who
14:40was so productive with Drake May.
14:42But if there's no injuries and everything kind of continues trending the way it is,
14:46I just don't see a reality where Kayshaun Boutte is on the team, at least after the trade deadline.
14:51Interesting.
14:52I mean, there is value in a guy like that.
14:54Not even just for depth, but as a wide receiver, three different sets, different skill set than the other guys.
15:01But, you know, it depends on what you can get, maybe, like if there's action for him.
15:05With Taylor Kyles, beat reporter for Patriots CLNS at TKyles39.
15:11Mike Shope and the Bulldog here.
15:12What do you see in terms of the running backs this year?
15:15Really interesting.
15:16And as a fantasy player, myself, Taylor, sometimes kind of maddening the back and forth, which one is it going
15:23to be this week?
15:24I was at that game in week five and, you know, Henderson, so exciting as, you know, the skill set
15:30wise and his youth.
15:32But Stevenson falls into the end zone, I think, twice that night.
15:34And like, oh, well.
15:35And the playoffs, holy cow.
15:37I mean, Henderson in that Denver game barely played at all.
15:39But just a couple examples.
15:40Do you see the Patriots wanting to, you know, balance that differently this year?
15:46I think on paper they'd love for the carries to be closer to a 50-50 split than anything.
15:52But the reality is that Ramondre Stevenson, now, I understand he's not the most explosive player in the world.
15:56And, yes, he's got fumbles.
15:58I don't know how many players at that position are more well-rounded.
16:02You're talking about a guy who is an excellent receiver out of the backfield, even if he doesn't get the
16:06attention he deserves in that capacity.
16:08And for my money, he's the best pass-blocking running back in the NFL in a system where running backs
16:13are asked to essentially be six offensive linemen a lot of the time in the way they pick up blitzes.
16:18And sometimes literally stand in gaps next to offensive linemen to shut down some of those looks where you'll have
16:24a linebacker, you know, up on the line of scrimmage to try to create some kind of disruption.
16:27So, those are two reasons that it's hard to take Ramondre off the field.
16:31But then on top of that, he's also one of the toughest tackles at the position, has excellent vision, and
16:37is just very, very durable.
16:39Whereas Travion, he's really more of a boomer-buck kind of player, and that's what I think he's working on
16:44in part this year.
16:45Is it not being that inconsistent where, yes, he has 100 yards, but 70 of those came on one play?
16:51I think he wants to have better vision, better consistency on the inside running.
16:56And also, this is really what's going to affect how much he plays, it's the pass protection.
17:00Last year, it felt like he knew where to go, but technique-wise, he just lost too many times.
17:06And with Ramondre being as good as he is, I think the Patriots just defaulted to the guy they could
17:10trust while letting the rookie kind of continue to learn behind the scenes.
17:14So, if Travion can close that gap, maybe we see more of him, but I still think it's going to
17:18be Ramondre as the lead dog in this backfield.
17:21But also, one thing I have to acknowledge is those two have been almost impossible to cover by the Patriots
17:28linebackers.
17:28They're winning deep.
17:29They're winning underneath this check down, guys, with people on their back.
17:33So, I mean, this is one of the more well-rounded running back duos in the league.
17:36It's really just going to be up to Travion to be able to, again, close that ground as a pass
17:41protector
17:41and earn those spots where, I mean, if you can't be trusted on play action to pick up a blitzer,
17:46they're not going to put you out there.
17:47There was a lot of debate last year's draft about whether Will Campbell could play left tackle at the NFL
17:54level.
17:55We know injuries played a part in how last season went for him, and it was pretty uneven at the
18:02end.
18:02What are the early returns going into his second year?
18:05He looks really good.
18:07He is rarely losing in one-on-one situations.
18:09There is some chemistry still to be built with him and Elijah Vera Tucker when there's more line games,
18:15and they're not trying to win one-on-one.
18:16They're trying to win some scheme.
18:18But that's to be expected still very early on.
18:21Elijah Vera Tucker was very limited back in the spring if he comes off of a season-ending injury.
18:25So, when it comes to working in tandem, I think there's still places where that left side can improve.
18:30But it's also fair to say that the Patriots don't have the most dangerous edge group in the NFL.
18:35So, I think that's helping make Will Campbell look pretty darn good.
18:39But at this point, he's done just about everything you expect.
18:41And I would anticipate that he has a much better second season than he did as a rookie.
18:46Boy, I'm imagining from this conversation what a game would look like between the Patriots versus the Patriots.
18:52Because maybe you shut down A.J. Brown, but both running backs are catching the ball and producing.
18:56And, you know, the edge rushers aren't much, so Drake may have time.
19:01Trying to think how I'd, you know, put a lineup together in Fantasy Bulldog if the Patriots were playing against
19:05themselves.
19:06Hey, you want a fantasy tip?
19:09Yes.
19:11Draft rookie Eli Raritan.
19:13No kidding.
19:14I was just about to ask you that.
19:16Here we go.
19:18Go ahead.
19:19I'm sorry, let me go.
19:19I'll go, I'll go.
19:20I'm sorry, I got excited.
19:22Take all the time you need on this one.
19:24Yeah, so I actually pegged Eli Raritan as the one player I needed the Patriots to draft this year.
19:30So when it happened, I'm doing backslips, like I'm celebrating on my podcast, all that good stuff.
19:34And he's actually showing why I was so excited.
19:37Because when Eli was at Notre Dame, they didn't take him off the field.
19:40They used him like a true in-line blocker.
19:42And on top of that, I think he was targeted on about a 10 or a dozen passes downfield.
19:48He caught every single one.
19:49And you can see, it's a lot of the basketball background he has, where he can use his physicality and
19:55his body to get open.
19:56But he also has very strong hands.
19:58He's had some drops at times.
19:59And I'm not going to put too much on him, because tight end is probably the second hardest position to
20:03play on offense in the system after quarterback.
20:06Just because you're not only doing everything a receiver has to do, you're also expected to block.
20:11But Raritan's been a favorite target of backup Tommy DeVito.
20:14He's taken advantage of his opportunities with Drake May and shown some chemistry.
20:17And he's also been awesome as a blocker.
20:19Like, I don't know if he'll out-snap Hunter Henry.
20:22But there's going to be packages where he's going to be the only tight end on the field because they
20:26trust him so much as a blocker.
20:28And speaking of Ramondre Stevenson, today he had McFlows a touchdown run in the high red zone because he ran
20:33right behind Morgan Moses and Eli Raritan.
20:35And Raritan did a great job against an edge defender to create a nice crease.
20:39So I am very, very excited about what Eli Raritan's going to do.
20:42And it seems like he's doing just about everything he can to earn a role on this offense.
20:46We don't know each other that well, but I was not joking when I said I was about to ask
20:51you about him.
20:52What I wrote down was, because Bulldog maybe would laugh, he knows how fantasy-obsessed I am.
20:56I have no ulterior motive for asking you this, Taylor, but how does rookie tight end Eli Raritan look to
21:02you?
21:02That's literally what I wrote down for this conversation.
21:05And in Pros vs. Joes last night at Expert Draft, we picked him.
21:09My partner really wanted Eli Raritan.
21:10So as soon as we're done, I'm going to the Discord to report this to them.
21:15Hell, die well on the same page, brother.
21:17You know ball.
21:18Or maybe just Davis does.
21:22I'll happily take the credit.
21:25All right, Taylor Kyles with the Patriots.
21:26Thanks for your time, Taylor.
21:28Enjoy the rest of camp.
21:29Thank you so much.
21:30Have a great one, guys.
21:32You too.
21:32You too.
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