00:00So what's keeping you busy?
00:01So what's keeping us busy?
00:02A lot of things.
00:03I mean, the demand is still there very much for all sorts of alternative investments.
00:08We're very focused on secondaries.
00:11We're a market lead in that space.
00:13We've raised a big fund.
00:14But also the other activities, direct private equity, private credit infrastructure, all of that.
00:19Why has secondaries picked up quite substantially, I would say?
00:23Yeah, it has indeed.
00:24And I mean, I'll give you a couple of statistics, data points.
00:27We raised a $30 billion platform last year.
00:32We closed that fund.
00:33That makes it one of the largest closed-end pools of capital globally.
00:37And the market itself doubled in size from 2023 to 2025.
00:43It was roughly $110 billion.
00:44It doubled to $230 billion.
00:46I think there's no other private market class that grows that much.
00:50The third element is if you look at total exit volume of private equity buyouts in these past years,
00:56if you look at 25 alone, roughly 600 were exits, of which more than 200 were secondary.
01:03So it's just a big, important, integral part of overall exit activity and liquidity for LPs.
01:09What do you see in terms of the appetite from institutional investors on buying and selling these secondaries now?
01:15Yeah.
01:15So it's become really – it's not a niche anymore.
01:19So the sellers really like to tap into that market because the underlying assets are being more difficult to sell
01:26overall.
01:27In COVID, many people bought into the companies at higher valuations.
01:31Now it takes a bit of time to digest those.
01:34And therefore, we see also a lot of first-time sellers, also from Asia.
01:40We've done many, many transactions from sellers here out of Hong Kong, out of greater China, out of other parts
01:46of Asia.
01:47What do you think is driving that pickup in – I mean, is it because you're getting so much deal
01:52activity,
01:53you're seeing valuations almost double every couple of months on some deals.
01:56Is that what's driving just the – the preference for earlier exits, I guess, is the way to put that?
02:00It is really liquidity, and especially in private equity because private equity compared to infrastructure or credit,
02:07you know, clients have been investing in that since decades.
02:10Right.
02:10And many are at their target allocation.
02:13And then, you know, they either cannot invest anymore for the next two, three, four years because they're at their
02:19target,
02:19or they say, well, we're selling some of these assets, therefore we get new liquidity in,
02:24and we can do new investments and get free co-investments, or they say we're overweight a certain region,
02:30we want to be more Europe, or we want to be more Asia, and they're reducing their U.S. allocation.
02:35I see.
02:36These are the different reasons, yeah.
02:38How has fundraising been in greater China?
02:40I believe you've raised about close to $16 billion.
02:44That's right.
02:45What's been really driving that, you think?
02:48So we've, in fact, last year had our best year even.
02:51Out of the $16 billion, roughly $4 billion was raised last year.
02:54So it's really huge.
02:55And we're seeing two things.
02:58One is definitely interest for the broader secondary platforms, but also an increased and renewed interest in Europe.
03:05Of course, there were investments in Europe before.
03:07As you know, our roots are European.
03:08While we're a global firm, our roots are there.
03:11And we've seen greater China clients investing into infrastructure, into buyout, into private credit.
03:18They were amongst the largest investor base, in fact, for the infrastructure fund that we just closed last year.
03:24We closed a $20 billion platform, making it the largest European platform in infrastructure.
03:31So we're seeing that still now.
03:33That's great.
03:34Very happy about it.
03:35I mean, you guys opened an office here, I guess, if I could say, in terms of just solidifying your
03:39footprint.
03:39What are your plans specifically there?
03:40Where do you want to take your presence here in Hong Kong?
03:42So we're 15 people now here, and we're seeing directly that there's huge growth.
03:49I mean, I want to add, though, that we've been in the market for more than 10 years already.
03:54We have clients here in Hong Kong for a long time.
03:56We've done investments, and our Asia footprint started in 2005 when we started the first office in Singapore shortly after
04:05opening our office in Beijing and then opened Tokyo, Seoul, now Hong Kong, and also Sydney.
04:12So we have now six offices overall.
04:15And, I mean, Hong Kong still is the financial hub for Asia.
04:20It is one of the financial capitals of the world.
04:23And you see the energy, and, you know, we want to be close to our clients.
04:27Of course, that's very important.
04:28But also, you know, doing fund investments, buying secondary portfolios.
04:33We also, in fact, did more than 20 direct private equity investments, usually co-investments, so minority investments alongside some
04:40other general partners in the region.
04:43But, yeah, I'm pleased with the growth that we've seen these past 12 months.
04:47It's above our expectation, and it will remain and even become one of the key offices for Ardyn in the
04:53future.
04:53That's sure.
04:54What about for private credit?
04:56Do you see there's a lot of interest still investing in that space despite some pressure in some segments of
05:01the industry?
05:02There's been some bad press there.
05:03Yeah, exactly.
05:04I mean, there's a lot of noise about it, you know.
05:05And you have to, you know, differentiate a bit between private credit in the Americas, in Europe, and Asia.
05:13What we're seeing, I mean, in Europe, really, the market is not as mature as in the Americas, but it
05:19is more mature than, let's say, in Asia.
05:21We have a credit fund where the loss ratio is 0.02 percent and the default ratio is 0.3
05:28percent, so very low.
05:29And you need to be experienced in that market.
05:31We're doing this since more than 20 years.
05:33We've seen all cycles.
05:34We've seen the great financial crisis.
05:36Default rates in the Americas are a little bit bigger, but the market is also more mature.
05:40And in Asia, you know, it's a more, it's a younger asset class, but we see a lot of demand,
05:46just to say that, because it is, you know, it makes sense.
05:50There is a lot of demand for private credit.
05:52And when you really look into the quality of the underlying assets, of course, software has been a big topic.
06:00But, you know, there's winners and losers.
06:02And so clients globally, out of Asia, but also globally, there's still good interest for private credit, I can say,
06:09for sure.
06:10Well, in terms of that, things like deal origination in Asia, specific markets that you think are growing faster than
06:17others, because structurally, we're more banked in Asia compared to, say, the U.S., right?
06:23So I guess that runway isn't as long.
06:25But just talk to us about how you look at markets and where growth is.
06:28Yeah, you're totally right.
06:29I mean, in the United States, it started after the loans banking crisis and savings bank crisis.
06:36And in Europe, it really grew in the past 15, 20 years, while here it emerged more 5 to 10
06:42years ago.
06:42And sectors that we're seeing in Asia and private credit is that you finance mid-cap private equity firms, but,
06:50of course, also in infrastructure, real estate.
06:54And there is definitely good growth.
06:57I would expect high growth rates going forward out of Asia, out of Hong Kong, out of Singapore and other
07:02markets.
07:02You mentioned about when it came to the concerns around software and the credit credits.
07:08I mean, have those concerns died?
07:10I mean, I don't know what the conversations are around that now.
07:13Yeah.
07:13I mean, software, you really have to differentiate between software that is impacted and other software that's very integrated, where
07:21AI is not hindering the growth, but boosting it, rather.
07:25So what happened on top is that some of these open-ended evergreen structures, you know, were invested in private
07:33credit.
07:34And the combination of these two things, then, you know, that was not a great combination.
07:38But if you look at close-end private credit funds, you know, they're doing very well.
07:43I mean, there are credit cycles, of course, you know, as always.
07:47So you will see some higher default rates at certain times.
07:51But overall, the asset class, long-term growth, we see still very high, and we're a big believer in the
07:58asset class.
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