- 2 days ago
Darren Aronofsky discusses the process of writing his new film 'Mother!' and casting Jennifer Lawrence and Javier Bardem in the lead roles.
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00:00Hi everyone, I'm Ashley from The Hollywood Reporter and we're here in the studio with Darren Aronofsky.
00:05Nice to see you.
00:06Thank you so much for coming by.
00:08So Darren just directed Mother, which was released a couple weeks ago and it's such an interesting movie.
00:14If you haven't seen it yet, I mean there's a lot going on.
00:17It centers on a couple played by Jennifer Lawrence and Javier Bardem and they have a beautiful home.
00:22But they get a very mysterious visit by another couple played by Michelle Pfeiffer and Ed Harris.
00:28And that just sets off many events.
00:32Yeah, it's a weird one.
00:33So it's a weird one.
00:35There's a lot going on, but I read that you wrote it quite quickly actually.
00:39Yeah, I think I write all things pretty quickly.
00:42I don't know if it was very different.
00:43It's just how long, how you're able to work on them.
00:47And I think this one was very much written in kind of this weird fever dream state.
00:53And it plays very much like that.
00:55And then when we did our normal work of trying to figure it out and trying to pull it apart
01:00and to improve on it, it actually started.
01:04It was kind of like trying to remember a dream, you know, when you wake up and it sort of
01:08fades away.
01:09So as soon as we started to work on it, it stopped making, you know, it stopped making full sense
01:15to us.
01:15And so we actually kind of respected what we had done in that first step.
01:20Very cool.
01:21Where did the initial inspiration come from?
01:24If it's even trackable.
01:25Yeah, it's hard to track.
01:26I think it's definitely a lot that was going on in 2015 when I wrote it.
01:33But, I mean, it was everything.
01:35It's just we live in this world where our phones are just constantly notifying us with the craziest news.
01:41And I just wanted to kind of capture some of that energy and figure out a way to sort of
01:48tell a story that sort of had that energy.
01:52Really cool.
01:53So there's a lot of levels of this movie.
01:55There's the relationship between the central couple.
01:58There's also a lot of biblical references.
02:02And then there's also, which you've said in other interviews, that this is, it's an allegory for how we as
02:09a human species are treating the environment.
02:11So while you were shooting this, did you discuss this with, like, all the different levels with your characters, with
02:15your actors?
02:16There was always three streams kind of feeding this river.
02:19And they all kind of braided together to make the movie.
02:23But the actors were really fully aware of everything that was happening.
02:28We had a three-month rehearsal period, which allowed us to sort of break down every scene and talk about
02:34it.
02:34And it was helpful, I think, to the actors because they could play things realistically as human characters when they
02:40just did this love story that, you know, this marriage that was falling apart.
02:44And then there was also a symbolic side of the story.
02:50And they were able to do both.
02:51Wow, look, we get a whole crowd here.
02:53I didn't realize there was going to be an audience.
02:54Yeah, we have a bit of an audience watching.
02:56So when, talking about the central relationship played by Jennifer Lawrence, who is the wife of a poet played by
03:03Javier Bardem,
03:04the whole time I was watching the movie, I kept getting more and more bothered when he would just nudge
03:10her in these almost negligent, very narcissistic ways.
03:16Did you shoot this chronologically?
03:17And, like, how did you go about crafting that relationship?
03:20Yeah, it was very, it was all chronological because the house slowly kind of has this incredible decay that happens.
03:27So everything sort of had to be built on top of everything else.
03:32And that was not just the production design.
03:34It was also the costume design and the hair and the makeup.
03:37All that stuff sort of had a, you know, started off very, very in one way and then just sort
03:42of morphed into more and more destruction and chaos.
03:46But to make destruction and chaos is actually probably harder than making something normal and clean.
03:51So all that stuff had to be designed really deeply.
03:54But we basically, we shot all of the exterior, all the stuff where there was daylight outside, we shot out
04:02in a field.
04:03And then as the film progressed, it moved more and more into night.
04:07And we went and rebuilt the house a second time on the stage.
04:10Oh, wow.
04:12And as far as the relationship, I think it was really interesting because having the three-month rehearsal allowed them
04:19to really find their characters, Javier and Jen.
04:24And Javier, it was a really interesting approach to it.
04:26He kept, you know, even though he is the bad guy in the movie, he kept wanting to put all
04:32of these good traits in so that even though he did things that were really messed up, he was also
04:38filled with a lot of love for her.
04:41And I knew he was doing that and I was okay with it because I realized, you know, the best
04:45type of bad guys are the bad guys that are complicated.
04:49But I, you know, in the back of my head is like, at some point, you're going to have to
04:52be the jerk.
04:53You realize that.
04:54And I kept reminding him.
04:55I said, at some point, you know, you're not going to get away with this.
04:58And so we pushed that all the way to the very end.
05:01But I think that's what allowed the relationship to sort of bounce back and forth.
05:06Yeah, it was really cool.
05:06As a viewer, I kept feeling as torn as probably.
05:09The push and pull.
05:10Yeah, as probably someone who was married to someone like that might feel that way.
05:13That's the idea.
05:14That was really cool.
05:15So moving on to the other couple, they get a visit by Michelle Pfeiffer and Ed Harris, whom you've explained
05:22in other interviews that they're somewhat of like an Adam and Eve character in this house of an Eden-like
05:29Mother Earth situation.
05:31Talk about casting them.
05:34Yeah.
05:34Yeah.
05:34Well, it started with, I think we did an order.
05:39Jen was the first one we cast, and then I had to find someone that could work with her and
05:45could sort of be on the same intensity level.
05:47And it's hard to find any male actor that can sort of stand up to Jennifer Lawrence.
05:54But Javier has that kind of volcanic emotion that was really interesting to me.
05:59So that made sense.
06:01And then I had to find a guy, because the first person that shows up is the first man who
06:06shows up.
06:08You know, who could be the first man, you know.
06:10And also someone that you would believe would hang out with, that Javier would hang out with.
06:15So someone, you know, that felt on equal footing.
06:18And Ed Harris, you know, is carved from granite.
06:23So he was perfect for it.
06:26And then we started thinking about the wife.
06:29And I had heard rumors that Michelle was thinking about coming back to acting after taking some time off.
06:38So I immediately reached out.
06:40And it was great.
06:42It was funny.
06:43At first she was sort of like, you could feel like she was putting a foot on the ice to
06:47see if it was solid, you know, before she started to act again.
06:51But we just, we got along really well.
06:54And, you know, she just came alive in a way I just, I hadn't, it's been a while since we've
07:02seen her.
07:03And she really gets to do something really fun in this movie.
07:07Yeah, absolutely fabulous.
07:08And all the little digs as well.
07:09So with all the different layers.
07:11Yeah, just to, that stuff is so hard to do.
07:14Yeah.
07:14Like to be in the moment and insult someone, you know, like unconsciously, but to pull that off realistically, if
07:21you think about that.
07:22Like people do that all the time, but it just sort of, we all know people that say the wrong
07:26thing.
07:27But I guess Larry David does it every day.
07:29But, you know, I think he's in on the joke.
07:33Her character wasn't in on the joke, wasn't aware that she was saying it.
07:37Definitely.
07:37So with all the three different layers of this movie, when an audience member goes to see it, do you
07:43want them to get all three?
07:44Are you disappointed if they don't?
07:46You know, as a filmmaker, I think my job is just plant the seeds and give everything water and light
07:53to grow.
07:54But it's definitely, it's up to the audience to take away what they want to take away.
08:01So it's amazing how many different impressions people are getting.
08:05And they're all fine.
08:07Awesome.
08:07Great.
08:08So also with the environmental aspect, which is very important to you for a very long time.
08:12It's important to all of us.
08:13Of course.
08:14Yes.
08:15But, I mean, does it feel any differently knowing that it was being released amidst all of these natural disasters?
08:23And even more so after, you know, Trump and the Paris Agreement's decision.
08:28Yeah, I mean, it's funny because I did write this in the eighth year of Obama.
08:31And it's coming out, it came out in the first year of Trump.
08:36So you could just see how frustrated I was even back then.
08:41I think it's a really scary time.
08:43I mean, it's terrifying what this hurricane season, which is, you know, definitely, it's increased in its intensity because of
08:55what we do.
08:56There probably still were earthquakes, but you don't get once in a generation things like this happening right after each
09:03other.
09:04And, you know, within 12 years of each other, you have Katrina, Sandy, and then, you know, all these Harvey,
09:11Maria, and Irma.
09:11And it's just, and also, I mean, no one even, I wasn't really fully aware until I went to TIFF,
09:18you know, British Columbia was dealing with the worst forest fire in the history of Canada.
09:22So, and L.A., of course, was dealing with their worst.
09:24So, you know, I think it's awful, but I'm only encouraged that now people can have, you know, unfortunately been
09:34the victim of it.
09:35And that may lead for people to act, which is desperate.
09:39Yes, definitely.
09:40So I want to talk about that house.
09:41It's epic.
09:42It's beautiful at the beginning of the movie.
09:44Can you talk about coming up with the style and all of the different finishes?
09:49And, I mean, I definitely felt affected when something would get ruined.
09:54I guess it started with Scout.
09:56You know, when I wrote it, I didn't really have it in my head.
09:59That's not in the script, right?
10:00That, like, every little detail.
10:02No, no, no, no.
10:03No, but I think that's the fun of filmmaking is it is a collaboration.
10:08And you do bring in all these other crafts people and you basically, people put in their input and then
10:15you put it through the filter of does it make sense for the movie?
10:18And that's where, that's where, that's how things grow.
10:21And on this one, we were scouting for an actual house because we were like, well, maybe we can find
10:26a real house.
10:27That will be the cheapest way to do it.
10:29Of course, that didn't happen.
10:31But what we did stumble on was these octagon Victorian homes, which was a style of architecture back then.
10:39And it was actually developed by a phrenologist, which are the people that used to feel people's heads to tell
10:45what they were good at.
10:46And his theory was that the octagon was the perfect shape for the brain.
10:51And that was, like, enough of a crazy idea for us to say, oh, that's kind of cool.
10:55Let's build on that.
10:57As a filmmaker, it was great to have an octagon-shaped house because, you know, when you shoot into a
11:02room, you can shoot a diagonal wall, not just a flat wall.
11:05And also made all these weird-shaped rooms so that you could have lots of entrances and exits.
11:11And it kind of all became a labyrinth.
11:14And because the entire film takes place in a house, it needed to be a character that we slowly revealed
11:21and slowly got to know.
11:22And I think the audience, you know, even though the camera is never wide, it's always over Jen's shoulder, they
11:27start to kind of feel the architecture of the house and where she is.
11:30And all the rooms have different noises and sounds and creaks, and each door has its own creak, so that
11:36we try to help the audience orient themselves.
11:39Wow.
11:41But, so, you know, and then the idea of the number eight has all these kind of mystical things and
11:47lots of different cultures.
11:48And so we tied that into all of the allegories and, you know, planted little Easter eggs throughout the film
11:56of that.
11:57Yeah, it just adds a whole other layer right now.
11:58Yeah, and it just, it's cool.
12:00It's instead of just a normal house, it's something different.
12:03Cool.
12:03So this movie, the publicity and the marketing for this was very specific.
12:09You only released a few images through your own Twitter.
12:13Very few clips came out, and then we're talking a lot about it afterward, which is, it's not very normal
12:20for a director to talk about a movie, you know, a few weeks after it's come out these days.
12:26So was that always the plan to kind of roll it out this way?
12:30Did you have input on that part, and was that part of it?
12:34I don't know, I think it's a very weird film, and I think how you sell it is very, it's
12:42just very different.
12:43And I think, you know, we could have maybe leaned into this is just different, but I don't know if
12:48that would have affected people in a different way of how they feel about it.
12:54But I thought the kind of experimentation they did definitely reflected back on the type of film it is, because
13:02the film is kind of experimental and different.
13:04And so, you know, them doing a campaign that was different, I like that.
13:10Cool. I want to talk about the ending, so if you haven't seen the movie yet, just kind of stop
13:15listening for a second.
13:16But was there ever a question about the ending being too extreme in any way?
13:21I mean, not when I'm in charge.
13:24Okay, good.
13:24I mean, we, you know, I think the whole purpose of the film is how extreme it goes.
13:29You know, I had the same thing in Requiem for a Dream when the MPAA gave it an NC-17,
13:36you know, and we didn't accept the rating, because the type of shavings they wanted actually undermined the purpose of
13:44the film, because the film was how far you go to feed your addiction.
13:47And this was the same thing. It's about, you know, how far we take our insatiable need for everything, and
13:57especially love, and how that can be destructive.
14:01Got it. Is there anything that you cut out that just didn't make the move for whatever reason?
14:06Very little. There are a few things, but mostly the film was so linear, and so everything's built on top
14:13of everything else, that it was tricky to, like normally when you are cutting a movie, you can take a
14:23scene and go, oh, what would happen if we put this three scenes earlier?
14:25How does that affect stuff?
14:28But this one, everything from the hair to the makeup to the costume was just progressive.
14:34And so, there was very little stuff that came out, and very little that kind of shifted around.
14:40Got it. So this movie has definitely sparked reactions all over the spectrum.
14:45Do you, are you someone who reads reviews, or like, you know, scrolls on social media, and kind of sees
14:50those things?
14:50I mean, it's impossible in today's world to escape it.
14:53I used to not read anything, but now it just, it's amazing how much all types of media are getting
15:00through the thing.
15:02So I have a sense of what, what's going on, but I don't think that's really my job.
15:07My job is to make it, and then to release it, and then, you know, maybe talk about it a
15:12little bit.
15:12But once again, it's, the work is in making the films.
15:17Do you have a favorite reaction you may have accidentally read?
15:20I don't think anything's gotten that specific.
15:23Oh, no, there was, I think, someone told me, Rex Reed said it was the worst movie of the century,
15:28which I was pretty proud of.
15:31That made me happy.
15:33You know, I like, I like the really, you know, upset ones.
15:38You know, the movie, I don't think Rex Reed's really liked anything I've ever done.
15:42I think he called Black Swan an ugly duckling.
15:44So, you know, I like it when they come after it, because it means I'm definitely inspiring him to write
15:51nasty stuff, which is cool.
15:53Do you think that movies sometimes play it too safe?
15:56Like, are you considered extreme?
15:58You know what I mean?
15:59Yeah, absolutely.
16:00Should everyone be pushing their boundaries a bit more?
16:01Of course.
16:02I mean, for me, film is art, and you have to, that's the only way I know how to do
16:07it,
16:07is, like, put everything that I can into it and express as much as I can of my, of being
16:14alive on the planet.
16:16I don't, I mean, there's definitely a room for just, there's totally a room for, you know, blatant entertainment.
16:23You know, I'll watch Rudy at 3 a.m. any night it's on.
16:26But, you know, there's also a place where you have filmmakers just, you know, doing their shit.
16:34Got it.
16:35And then, what's, is there anything that you've kind of tried new on this movie that you'll probably take with
16:41you to your future projects?
16:42I think we were a lot looser on this one, and, you know, it was the quickest one we ever
16:47did from pen to, you know, the DI.
16:51Yeah.
16:52It went really quick.
16:53And there was something nice about working more collaborative with my fellow artists in trying to bring this to life
17:06as it came.
17:06Because there would be things on the page that were very, very thin, and then we'd have to figure out
17:12exactly what that meant.
17:14And that was, like, many different departments contributing and just sort of finding the right line as we move through
17:20that adventure.
17:22Got it.
17:22And then one more question.
17:24So, when this screened at the Toronto Film Festival, the viewers were handed an adaptation of the Lord's Prayer, which
17:32I believe was your decision to kind of preface that.
17:35Well, I liked it.
17:36I had the idea that, I just had the, I don't know exactly where it came from, but I thought,
17:43you know, reinterpreting, you know, making a prayer for the kind of force that gives us life would be really
17:55interesting.
17:56And I was talking to Rebecca Solnit, who's this great writer that I'm friends with, and we traveled to the
18:02Arctic together and got to know each other pretty well.
18:05And I mentioned the idea, and she said, oh, I'll give it.
18:06I don't think she actually even said that.
18:08She just sent it.
18:09She's like, oh, I couldn't resist.
18:10And she sent it, and it was beautiful.
18:13And I just decided to share it.
18:15Really cool.
18:16But is there any recommendation to anyone who hasn't seen the movie yet, like, anything they should do beforehand to
18:22preface?
18:23Read The Giving Tree again.
18:24Oh, my gosh.
18:25The Giving Tree.
18:26Yeah.
18:27It'll take you a few minutes, but it's beautiful.
18:29Yeah, definitely.
18:30Oh, I don't know if it's beautiful.
18:31It's awful.
18:32Mm-hmm.
18:33Was that-
18:33Awfully beautiful.
18:34Like, how involved was The Giving Tree in your writing process?
18:38Because-
18:38I think it was afterwards we realized that we were connected to it.
18:42But I do remember reading it to my son and just getting to the last page going, what?
18:47Mm-hmm.
18:48You hadn't read it before that, right?
18:49Yeah, that was true.
18:49I don't think I was read it as a kid.
18:53But I don't know what year it was written, actually.
18:55Anyone?
18:56No idea.
18:57We'll flash that on the screen.
18:58We'll flash that, yeah.
18:59But anyway, when I read it, it's a pretty upsetting book.
19:04Yeah.
19:06Lovely, upsetting children's book.
19:08Amazing.
19:08Very deep.
19:09Awesome.
19:09Well, thank you so much for stopping by.
19:12Mother is in theaters now.
19:13And for more entertainment news, head to THR.com.
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