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Actress and activist Jameela Jamil, who currently stars on 'The Good Place,' joined Charlamagne tha God for the second installment of 'Emerging Hollywood,' saying of her activism, "I'm not going to stop because people doubt me, and most people suppor
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00:01Hollywood is being rebuilt by artists not afraid to disrupt the status quo.
00:06Telling fresh stories and bringing to life characters who until now have been confined to the margins.
00:12This is Emerging Hollywood.
00:19I'm here with Jamila Jamil, because she's one of the stars of The Good Place,
00:23who's all about empowering positive body image
00:25and who isn't afraid to use her platform to call out destructive standards of beauty.
00:30What was the perfect body to you originally?
00:33When I was younger, I thought you weren't worth anything no matter what you'd achieved in your life,
00:37unless you had jutting hip bones.
00:39So that's what I thought the perfect body is.
00:41It's like when you're so thin that your hip bone is sticking out of your trousers.
00:45The look in the 90s, you know when Kate Moss was saying,
00:47nothing tastes as good as thin feels.
00:49It's like, you eating pizza?
00:51I think I was a very young kid when I first realized that
00:54there was an oppressive beauty standard on me.
00:56Also, it was very white, and I never used to see brown or black people, really,
01:00in my magazines or on my television.
01:02So at seven, did you rebel against it, or did you want to embrace it?
01:05Did you know from the beginning, like, this isn't normal?
01:08I didn't really, like, fully understand my shame.
01:12I just knew that I felt embarrassed about having a little seven-year-old tummy,
01:15which is like a completely normal thing to have.
01:17And I was growing really tall, so I was going out before I would go up.
01:20And by the time I was about 11 or 12, I had very, very bad body shame,
01:25because I wanted to look like all of the anorexic models in my magazines.
01:29And I was fully anorexic by the time I was about 13.
01:33I wasn't menstruating.
01:34Like, my body was sort of letting me know that I was dying from the inside.
01:38And it's because I got hit by a car at 17 into another car and broke a part of my
01:43back
01:44that I was able to have some sense literally knocked into me that I stopped starving myself.
01:50Where were the parents at and the grandparents saying, eat, girl?
01:52Anorexics are very, very skilled and secretive,
01:55and it's often very bright kids who are able to be successful at anorexia.
01:59So, you know, you just sort of, you lie a lot and you wear baggy clothes
02:03and no one can explicitly see your bones.
02:05You're not walking around naked with all your bones out all the time.
02:07You're able to keep it hidden.
02:09And, you know, there's a lot of stress from school.
02:11So I think parents just don't really know.
02:14And also parents, especially back then, weren't educated about eating disorders.
02:17The eating disorder number is the highest they've ever been.
02:19The self-harm are the highest numbers they've ever been.
02:21Highest teen suicide in the world.
02:22We're in chaos.
02:24What about the car accident made you realize, like, yo, I gotta wake up?
02:28Well, I was now, like, completely physically disabled and couldn't use my body
02:31and realized that, wow, this body was doing so much for me all along
02:36and I was just starving and actively, actively hurting it and trying to kill it all the time.
02:40And I took it so badly for granted.
02:42I felt great shame about that once I no longer had autonomy over myself.
02:47I was very sad to see what I had done and how I'd wasted the last couple of years of
02:51my life.
02:51And so I stopped starving myself and became healthier in what I would put into my body.
02:57But I still had an anorexic mentality that went on until I was maybe about 28, 29 years old.
03:02You had a cancer scare at one point too, right?
03:04Yeah, that's why I moved to America and became an actor.
03:06I had a lump in my breast and a doctor found it.
03:09And they make you wait a week to find out if it's cancer or not.
03:12And so I made a bucket list, which I actually call a fuck-it list,
03:15of everything I would do if I found out I didn't have cancer.
03:18And the number one thing on that list was move to America.
03:21And so six weeks to the day from the operation you could fly,
03:23so six weeks to the day from the operation I booked a one-way ticket to Los Angeles
03:26with no visa, no contacts, no friends in America, with no plan.
03:29How'd you get into the media game?
03:31I was an English teacher at the same school that Russell Brand was an English teacher.
03:36So I think there must be something in the water then.
03:38Russell Brand was an English teacher?
03:40I know.
03:40Why the hell didn't I know that?
03:41I don't know.
03:42I mean, he's done a lot of other things of note.
03:45So it's maybe fallen by the wayside, but we were both English teachers at the same school.
03:49And I was in a pub, the pub that we go to at the end of every week, called The
03:53Green Man.
03:54And a producer walked up to me and we started talking.
03:57He thought I was funny.
03:58There was this open call for this huge job to replace this TV host at the time called Alexa Chung.
04:04And it was a nationwide call.
04:05And I was like, oh, no, I think show business is dumb.
04:07And I think the people in show business are dumb.
04:11And then he said it was a thousand pounds a day.
04:12And I was like, sorry, what was that you mean?
04:15And I went for the job and got it.
04:17And I have been a TV host and a radio DJ and a writer and now an actress ever since.
04:23It seems like you're a public servant, so I can see you being a teacher.
04:27And I can also see why maybe the industry doesn't fulfill you as much.
04:31So you have to do the activism and, you know, the empowerment of other people.
04:35It's a dirty industry.
04:36I'd feel a bit dirty in it if I wasn't doing something to undo some of the damage that it
04:40does.
04:40There's also great parts of this industry.
04:42And I think entertainment is such a beautiful and important thing to do that I've been on the receiving end
04:47of how much it can save your life when you're down.
04:49But also the entertainment industry has some rotten parts of it that we're trying to slowly lift out.
04:56And I can't be part of it. I have to do something to rally against it.
04:59Otherwise, I feel like I'm a traitor to women and to young people.
05:08What does it mean to be a feminist?
05:09Feminist just means wanting equal rights for men and women.
05:14I don't think it means a battle of superiority.
05:17For me, I want feminism to mean that I am an ally to all women and that includes trans women.
05:23And I think I've learned over the last year from black women how much black women are left out of
05:28feminism.
05:28And that has taught me that I need to step up and do more to make sure that my feminism
05:32is more intersectional.
05:34And so I think feminism just means fighting for the rights of equality for all women.
05:39What are the misconceptions of feminism?
05:41That you're a feminazi, I think is the term, and that you hate men and you don't want men to
05:46be your allies.
05:47We do want men to be our allies. We literally need men to be our allies.
05:51If you look back through history, in every case of oppression, the oppressed, however much they fight to get the
05:58attention of the oppressor,
05:59they rely upon the mercy of the oppressor. And so my feminism is very inclusive of men and is not
06:05at all attacking of men.
06:06I call men out when they need to be called out, but I very much so want friends and allies
06:11in this
06:11because I think it would benefit men and women to have us all be equals.
06:15And I think some feminism can sometimes be understandably aggressive and angry towards men,
06:20but in a way that sometimes makes men so defensive and shuts them out.
06:23And I think woke bashing and cancel culture is super dangerous because it devalues progress.
06:29It's saying if you ever made a mistake or you ever thought the wrong thing or you ever weren't woke
06:32or you've made a mistake now that you've said sorry for and you're actively changing your ways,
06:36it doesn't matter because once you've committed any sin, you're done and you're out forever.
06:40I don't think that's helpful because then people are just going to stop bothering to learn if they think that
06:46there's no value in that.
06:47The male ego is very, very fragile.
06:49Yeah, but I think we could also teach maybe men that rejection isn't so bad.
06:54We could teach women to be kind in rejection, like little girls and little boys.
06:57I think we've messed up rejection and stigmatized it.
07:00I also feel like we should tell men that no is no and a woman doesn't have to give a
07:05reason for that no.
07:06You shouldn't have to say, oh, I got a boyfriend.
07:08I know, I shouldn't have to, but I endanger my life when I don't have an excuse.
07:12It's hyper-normalized to us to just have to protect your life from the second you wake up.
07:16Something has to stop. Time isn't up. I mean, time is up, but we need to keep that going.
07:21It can't just be a fashion statement.
07:23Yeah, I don't think time is up. I think we're aware of the time though, which is good.
07:26You know what I mean? I think that's what the Time's Up and Me Too movement did.
07:29It made men aware of some of the toxic behavior that they could have been doing.
07:33I saw you call out Khloe Kardashian, Iggy Azalea, Cardi B and Amber Rose for promoting flat tummy tees. Why
07:41was that?
07:41They're selling products that they aren't announcing the side effects of on their posts.
07:46They're selling products with, I mean, bold claims of abilities with weight loss and aesthetic differences.
07:53They are attributing their aesthetic that is down to a trainer, a chef, a dietician, Photoshop and surgery to a
08:00powder that you buy over the internet.
08:02They don't drink them. I don't even know if these people really take these products.
08:05They definitely can't know what's in them because you would never recommend that to a 13 year old.
08:09So how do you cancel things that you don't need but keep that person?
08:15I think there's a difference. I don't cancel the Kardashians or Iggy Azalea or Cardi B. I'm not canceling them.
08:21I'm reprimanding them.
08:22It's fine to call someone out because you're offering them the opportunity of changing and doing better.
08:28What are your thoughts on plastic surgery?
08:30Each to their own. I think you can have plastic surgery, but if you are in the public eye, you
08:34have to own up to it.
08:35Do not dare have plastic surgery and alter your appearance or Photoshop your images without announcing it
08:40because then you are forcing other people to try to live up to an expectation that you yourself are not
08:45able to attain.
08:45I'm aware that some people find me annoying and a bit relentless, but until shame takes a day off and
08:50until this dangerous behavior takes a day off, I won't.
08:54I think that you are who you say you are, but do you think that being overly woke is being
09:00used as like a selling point now for certain people?
09:03Yeah. And there's a lot of like, I understand the fear of performative wokeness, but I actually don't think I'm
09:07that woke.
09:08And I actually refer to myself only ever as a feminist in progress because I'm not woke.
09:13Performative wokeness. I got to write that one down.
09:15Yeah. Performative wokeness where, you know, now we're sort of like, you know, the hashtag empower spawn and everyone's trying
09:19to use human rights as a way to sell themselves or sell a product.
09:23I think that's gross. I mean, there's so much stress that we are all under. We all just need therapy.
09:28We all need to be given a break.
09:31And we all need to be proud of ourselves. I have been a very disenfranchised person who's been very demoralized
09:36by the world around me.
09:37And I'm just trying to fix it before I bring a child into the world.
09:40So I completely understand if people distrust me. I look like the enemy. I'm slim.
09:45I fit within society's like conventional attractiveness. And I am an actress in Hollywood. Why would anyone trust me?
09:51But you're just going to have to wait and see what I do. And that's really up to you if
09:56you believe in me.
09:56I'm not going to stop because people doubt me and most people support me.
10:06In the future, what changes do you think are most pertinent for the industry to make when it comes to
10:10portrayal of women?
10:12I think we need more and more diversity and that doesn't just mean different thin women in different colours.
10:18It would also be great to have some more South Asians.
10:21Because really until recently we've had white people browning up and playing us.
10:25Or if we do get the role, we're blowing up white people.
10:29Or we are talking very similar type or stereotype and we're very loud and we're saying very silly things all
10:35the time.
10:36And we're never the love interest. We're never the sex symbol.
10:39We're just always the ridiculous, awful and embarrassing sort of stereotype.
10:43And I think it would be really cool for more people like Mike Schur to create roles for us.
10:48Or to have some South Asian creators to create authentic roles for us.
10:52So that it's not just like me, Kamail and Mindy and Priyanka.
10:55Yeah, I always wonder if those industries can blow up in America only because the population is so small.
11:01When it comes to like that group of people.
11:04I don't think that's true, especially not in England where the population is massive of our people.
11:08Well, I mean, I'm saying here in America.
11:09Yeah, here in America. No, I think there's still, there's enough for them to be represented.
11:14Definitely there's enough. We're not talking about 10 or 12 people.
11:17There's still a large and ever-growing population.
11:19And also, the products that are made in America and in Hollywood go out across the world.
11:24Like, you're educating and nourishing and entertaining the world, but you have to be more responsible.
11:31And our world is becoming increasingly beige because everyone is shagging everyone from all kinds of different places.
11:36That is a fact.
11:37And there is no more, I mean, it's just, everyone's mixed.
11:39What's next for Jamila?
11:41I don't have a plan.
11:43I think the key to my success has been being open to whatever comes in via my periphery.
11:49And so I'm just open to whatever comes.
11:51I have a community called I Weigh, which is nothing to do with weight.
11:54It's just called I Weigh because it's changing the way in which we value women.
11:57We no longer want women or men or anyone to be valued by a measuring scale, by a weighing scale.
12:04I Weigh, for example, my career, my financial independence, my activism, my lovely relationship, my wonderful friends, my sit-down
12:11chat with Charlemagne.
12:12These are the things that contribute to who I am as well as all the things that I've struggled with
12:16and overcome in my life.
12:17I'm turning I Weigh into a company, into a lifestyle company that's actually about your actual lifestyle.
12:23It's about being smarter and happier, not thinner and younger.
12:26I'll continue with my activism and maybe people will continue to hire me for acting roles.
12:31So what are your guidelines when choosing projects?
12:33My guidelines when choosing projects are I don't want to do nudity and I don't pick parts which I think
12:40are uninteresting or a cliche about women.
12:44So I'm not just going to play like the nagging, annoying girlfriend.
12:46I want a role that's actually challenging and nuanced.
12:49What I love about The Good Place is that you have two women who have very complicated existences and a
12:56very complicated relationship with each other.
12:57Nothing about them is a cliche.
12:58And I think that's really cool and I think we just need more of that rather than the same old
13:03stereotypes that have been used to pigeonhole women.
13:05You think you write your own show?
13:06Yes.
13:07I'd really like to write my own show.
13:09I have a couple of different ideas that I have just with interesting, diverse cast, people of different sizes, people
13:15of different backgrounds.
13:16And again, The Good Place, you don't get more diverse in so many ways than on that set.
13:22It's just, it's really cool to be a part of it and none of us are tokenized.
13:25Yeah, I feel like when you want to tell the story that you want to see, you have to write
13:29them.
13:30Often, yeah.
13:30Like who else is going to do that?
13:31You said something interesting though.
13:33You talked about, you said none of y'all are tokens.
13:35Like I don't want token diversity either.
13:37Where they're just putting certain people in certain places just to say that they're there.
13:40Yeah.
13:41I'm not interested in that.
13:42I also feel very passionately about not taking disabled roles.
13:45I was asked recently to play maybe the part of a deaf woman and I said, I was literally asked
13:51to play the role of a deaf woman and I said no, even though I was deaf as a child
13:53until I was about 12 on and off.
13:56I had lots of operations and I said no because I don't want to take one of the only roles
14:00for a deaf woman when there's a great deaf actress out there in the world and she could have that
14:04role.
14:04And I think we need to take more responsibility for that.
14:06I understand when actors are like, we want to be able to suspend disbelief and I'll fight for the deaf.
14:12I think someone said for the right to be able to suspend disbelief.
14:15It's like, okay, fine.
14:16But before you do that, can you please fight for the deaf for there to be more roles for disenfranchised
14:21people, for marginalised people.
14:22Let's fight for the death for the actual diversity first, for more gay roles that aren't just about being gay,
14:28for more disabled roles that aren't just about being disabled.
14:30Let's fight to the death for that and then there'll be so many roles like that, then it'll be alright
14:35to share them with able-bodied straight white actors.
14:38Gotcha.
14:39But that's something that I feel very passionate about in Hollywood and I'm trying to not be a part of
14:43erasure.
14:43What's your dream project?
14:46My dream project is something with probably Kristen Wiig and Steve Carell, something like that. Comedy. I really love comedy
14:54and it's something that I grew up watching and I'd love to do more of that.
14:58I'd also love to create my own comedy and so I think that's something that I'll next go onto is
15:03starting to create my own content.
15:05How do you deal with rejection? Like when you write something and you think it's fire and then you present
15:09it and they're like, nah, that's not what we're looking for.
15:11I just have high hopes, low expectations and that's been my key to happiness.
15:15I see trying as winning and everything else on top of that is just cake and so I think we
15:21need to put more emphasis on that so people actually try and live their dreams and don't hold themselves back
15:26because they're so scared of failure.
15:28So you're living your dream right now?
15:30Yeah.
15:30Jamila, it was a pleasure to meet you.
15:32Thank you very much for having me.
15:33You are a winner. Thank you for joining me.
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