- hace 9 horas
En entrevista con El Espectador, el ministro de Ambiente designado por Abelardo de la Espriella revela que no hará control letal de hipopótamos, detalla su posición sobre la minería en Santurbán y deja clara su posición sobre la explotación de hidrocarburos en la Amazonía.
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00:07Well, hello to everyone. Thank you so much for connecting with El Espectador again.
00:12Welcome to another interview from the newspaper El Espectador. This time we're with Fabio Arjona.
00:19who is the Minister of the Environment appointed by the new president Abelardo de las Priella.
00:24Minister Arjona, thank you very much for being interviewed by El Espectador. Very kind of you.
00:28Very pleased to be with you, one of my favorite laws.
00:32Well, we think it's great because we've been quite involved in environmental journalism in recent years.
00:41Minister, I wanted to begin by asking you, if you look back on these four years,
00:46What did you like about the environmental management of Gustavo Petro's government?
00:49Very little. Really, the subject of the speech, in fact, is everything.
01:01And I think we have regressed a lot in the country's environmental management.
01:11Conservation and sustainability in general have three major enemies.
01:18The first is poverty.
01:23Human predatory actions result in basic social needs.
01:29If I am in a jungle and I am the last deer on earth and my children are hungry,
01:38God is a deer.
01:40The second is indorance.
01:44Or making decisions without information or with limited information.
01:52The third one I call environmental hysteria,
01:56which has to do with a populist-type erroneous narrative.
02:05To give you an example, Colombia demands from the Colombian economy
02:12from the export, basically, of energy and mining commodities.
02:20This government, with its environmental discourse
02:26of, whether it be the greenhouse effect, climate change,
02:31It took away that source of revenue because it slowed things down
02:35the whole issue of hydrocarbons that are necessary
02:38to reduce poverty
02:41and, on the other hand, for an energy transition
02:45which was so widely discussed.
02:47The result was that we ran out of bread
02:51and without the cheese.
02:53In practical terms,
02:56with the speech of
02:58climate change,
03:01when we all know that our contribution
03:04to what causes the greenhouse effect
03:06is less than the point
03:074%
03:09of global emissions,
03:12We weren't doing anything.
03:15simplifying or
03:17marquantizing
03:18the issue of hydrocarbons.
03:21As a result, the country has less income,
03:25we have less
03:26possibility of environmental management
03:27And on the other hand,
03:30Nothing was done
03:31in energy transition.
03:35those who stayed
03:37in a speech
03:38empty.
03:40The projects of
03:42non-conventional energy
03:43that were established
03:46They had been around for a while.
03:47and that they resisted
03:50because many
03:51who were coming
03:52such as, for example,
03:55the 16,000 megabytes
03:57that
03:57that
03:58they had planned
04:00install
04:00in La Guajira
04:02in projects
04:04wind
04:04they withdrew
04:07of the country
04:08simply
04:09due to difficulties
04:11in regulation.
04:13Remember yourself
04:14that this government
04:15It was delayed
04:15almost three years
04:16in not even
04:18name
04:19in the Regulatory Commission
04:20of Energies
04:21to the commissioners.
04:25and second,
04:26by
04:27all the chaos
04:29and the confusion
04:31that was formed
04:32with respect
04:33to the topic
04:34licensing,
04:35prior consultations
04:36and so on.
04:37Result,
04:39the companies
04:40they withdraw
04:41because
04:42They don't see security.
04:43legal
04:43in the country.
04:44There is no transition
04:46energy,
04:47we don't have
04:4716,000 megabytes
04:48which could be
04:49installed quickly.
04:51Wind power
04:52fast
04:53facility
04:54the same as the plot of land
04:56and that we had
04:57served
04:57to calm down
04:58the energy crisis
05:01that
05:02breasts
05:02neighbor
05:03with the supply
05:05energy
05:05which surely
05:06we're going to have
05:07a blackout
05:08and gas
05:09in Colombia.
05:10Double crisis.
05:11That means
05:13minister
05:14that
05:16the government
05:17petro
05:18fairly
05:18the transition
05:19energy
05:20was one
05:21of its main
05:22speeches
05:23and without a doubt
05:24despite the
05:25there have been
05:26difficulties
05:27giants
05:28but also
05:28has grown
05:30the amount
05:31energy
05:32produced
05:32because of this type
05:33of energy
05:34renewables.
05:35You
05:35will receive
05:36that source
05:37those flags
05:38or not
05:38will receive them
05:39that transition?
05:40The transition
05:41energy
05:41It needs to be promoted.
05:42What I want to tell you
05:43none of them
05:44of those projects
05:45that were installed
05:46were created
05:47of this government
05:47they were already coming
05:48from a long time ago
05:49from the government
05:50former.
05:52Undoubtedly
05:53that we have to
05:54accelerate
05:55the transition
05:55energy
05:56we need to recover
05:57our potential
06:00wind
06:00our potential
06:01solar
06:02that of some
06:02manner
06:03is moderately
06:05developed
06:06but still
06:06with little
06:07to endure
06:08our system
06:09energetic
06:09so
06:10There has been no
06:11transition
06:11energy
06:12not at all
06:13and take advantage
06:14other sources
06:16of resources
06:16neither
06:17were made
06:18such as
06:19our potential
06:21of the cabinet
06:22thermal
06:23neither
06:26potential
06:27of the cabinet
06:28thermal
06:29oceanic
06:30neither
06:31There is no
06:32issue
06:33innovation
06:34if you can
06:35talk
06:36with the
06:36generators
06:37that medium
06:38they were able
06:40survive
06:41to
06:41the topic
06:42of
06:43can
06:44at least
06:45advance
06:46in their projects
06:47your balance
06:48is highly
06:49negative
06:49he complains
06:50the points
06:52connection
06:52in the end
06:53the ease
06:54that the government
06:55must offer
06:57for the transition
06:58energy
06:59It was not at all
06:59on the contrary
07:00It was negative.
07:01so
07:02one thing
07:03It is the speech
07:04we're going to do
07:05transition
07:05energy
07:06and another
07:06what happens
07:07in reality
07:08then there is a
07:09huge difference
07:10between the speech
07:11and reality
07:11in environmental terms
07:13highly negative
07:14and this government
07:17is going to do
07:19an effort
07:20big
07:20to promote
07:22all topics
07:23transition
07:24energy
07:24which are
07:25fundamentals
07:26not only
07:28for the
07:29decarbonization
07:30that we say
07:31in terms
07:31global
07:32our contribution
07:34I repeat
07:35It remains
07:35little
07:36but for
07:37to have a
07:37diversity
07:38in our
07:39basket
07:39energy
07:40that we
07:40allow to be
07:41more resilient
07:42to topics
07:43like the
07:44freak
07:44of the child
07:44that we
07:45about
07:45and others
07:47definitely
07:48minister
07:48since it mentions
07:50the topic
07:50change
07:51climatic
07:51and our
07:51contribution
07:52of gases
07:53effect
07:54greenhouse
07:55definitely
07:55compared to
07:56other countries
07:56It's small
07:57but we have
07:57some goals
07:58very clear
07:59towards 2030
07:59and until 2050
08:00you go
08:01to maintain
08:02and to respect
08:02the NRCs
08:03from Colombia
08:04that were established
08:05during the government
08:06Duke
08:08They are quite
08:11ambitious
08:13well, the NRC
08:14It must be fulfilled
08:15It's already a commitment
08:16of the country
08:17And we're going to achieve it
08:18And that is achieved
08:20through several routes
08:22another of the
08:23topics
08:24of the government
08:25environmentalist
08:26with respect
08:27to the change
08:27climatic
08:28and the GNDC
08:29which said
08:30this government
08:31the topic
08:33of the
08:34of mitigation
08:36to the change
08:36climatic
08:37our
08:39major
08:40fountain
08:42mitigation
08:43based
08:44in
08:45solutions
08:45based
08:46in nature
08:47it was established
08:48since the year
08:5016
08:51December
08:52of the year
08:5216
08:53government
08:54de Santos
08:55with the reform
08:56tax
08:57of that year
08:58which established
09:00the tax
09:00to carbon
09:02and the tax
09:03to carbon
09:04it was established
09:05thanks to
09:06Colombia was
09:07in a process
09:08to adhere
09:08to the OECD
09:10more than as
09:12a mechanism
09:12collection
09:13as an instrument
09:14economic
09:15and it was established
09:17the mechanism
09:18carbon neutralization
09:21high percentage
09:23of the tax
09:24to carbon
09:25They had two options
09:27or it was paid
09:28directly
09:29to the Treasury
09:29as a tax
09:30straight
09:31or was generated
09:33a project
09:33carbon neutralization
09:34or it was called
09:35a project
09:35network type
09:36solutions based
09:37in nature
09:38and in Colombia
09:40between the year
09:4117
09:4118
09:422000
09:43until before
09:43of the pandemic
09:44turned
09:46Mecca
09:46of projects
09:48reduction
09:50emissions
09:51carbon
09:51with a lot of investment
09:54private
09:54in some
09:55territories
09:56communities
09:56in the Chocó
09:57There are four projects
09:57very interesting
09:58of communities
09:59afro
10:00the price
10:02of carbon
10:02began
10:04to have
10:04a topic
10:06interesting
10:06and what did he do?
10:08this government
10:10removed
10:10carbon neutrality
10:11or minimized it
10:14the percentage
10:15He reduced it
10:15at the minimum
10:16and all
10:16he collected it
10:17the result
10:19The final was
10:19that instrument
10:20economic
10:20It stopped working
10:22as such
10:23so
10:23where is
10:25the meaning
10:26environmental?
10:27that is to say
10:28they finished
10:28with a market
10:29carbon
10:29that was growing
10:30very quickly
10:32and what did
10:33from Colombia
10:34a country
10:34attractive
10:35for the matters
10:36this government
10:38will recover
10:39the topic
10:41of the
10:41carbon neutrality
10:43in a percentage
10:44high
10:45I wish
10:45100%
10:47of the tax
10:48to carbon
10:48to generate
10:49conditions
10:50to search
10:52solutions
10:53based
10:53in nature
10:54on the one hand
10:55for mitigation
10:56climate change
10:57but mainly
10:58to achieve
10:59the ONDS
11:01that the country
11:02has
11:03as promised
11:03that is to say
11:04minister
11:04that you
11:05is a supporter
11:06to promote
11:08and promote
11:09the market
11:09of the credits
11:10carbon
11:10not only
11:11the credits
11:12carbon
11:12but the credits
11:13of biodiversity
11:14with the best
11:15standards
11:16never
11:17besides
11:18during the government
11:19this
11:19there was a mechanism
11:20registration
11:21of projects
11:22which was RENARE
11:23the RENARE
11:24He died
11:25there
11:26We need to recover it
11:28We have to do
11:28a mechanism
11:29registration
11:30efficient
11:31of projects
11:31It is necessary to establish
11:33standards
11:37quality
11:39especially
11:40when they are projects
11:41that they have
11:42distribution
11:43of benefits
11:44to the communities
11:45no developer
11:47in Colombia
11:48from my point of view
11:49from a view
11:49private
11:50of the market
11:51carbon
11:53must do
11:54projects
11:55where the communities
11:56receive
11:57less than 60%
11:59of the resources
12:01of the sale
12:01certificate
12:02reduction
12:02emissions
12:03based
12:04in the price
12:04selling
12:05at the moment
12:06that it be sold
12:07very hypothetically
12:08before
12:09then we have to do
12:10some adjustments
12:11and it is necessary to establish
12:12the criteria
12:13quality
12:15work
12:15the mechanism
12:16registration
12:17and monitoring
12:18of the project
12:19guaranteeing
12:20that there is no
12:20double accounting
12:22to have
12:23a market
12:23robust
12:24and help
12:26to reach
12:27our
12:27NDCs
12:28But that means
12:29minister
12:29that is not
12:32I completely agree
12:33with the regulation
12:34that he is proposing
12:35the current
12:35Ministry of Environment
12:36that precisely
12:37recently
12:38weeks
12:39a couple of weeks
12:40Comments are closed
12:40It's awful
12:41It's awful
12:42and one of my first
12:43actions
12:44will be
12:45reverse that issue
12:47I think that
12:48we have to go back
12:49to put the philosophy
12:50of carbon
12:50carbon
12:51It is not from the nation
12:53that is to say
12:54We removed all
12:55the incentives
12:55so that
12:56the owners
12:57of the earth
12:5841%
12:59of the territory
13:00which are communities
13:01afro
13:01and communities
13:02indigenous people
13:04have a source
13:05of resources
13:06interesting
13:07from carbon
13:08and by the way
13:08They take care of our greatest
13:10richness of biodiversity
13:11in the forests
13:11and so?
13:13with this regulation
13:13it is lost
13:14the state captures
13:16puts a certain amount
13:16of obstacles
13:17And we're not going to have
13:18with that regulation
13:19a project
13:20carbon
13:21one of the first
13:22actions
13:23if this
13:24confirms
13:25I'm going to repeal it
13:29and then
13:30will be put
13:30under way
13:31a new process
13:32of regulations
13:33to strengthen
13:33the rowing
13:34to have
13:35quality criteria
13:36and to promote
13:40that there is
13:41resources
13:42for formulation
13:43of projects
13:44so you have
13:45a project
13:45carbon
13:46needs
13:46three conditions
13:47first
13:49that carbon
13:49exist
13:51second
13:52that has
13:52a size
13:53certain
13:53for the costs
13:55for
13:55so that it may be
13:57economically
13:57viable
14:00and third
14:01that has
14:01governance
14:02and so?
14:04has
14:05a limitation
14:06or a constant
14:07What are the costs?
14:08transaction
14:09the projects
14:11carbon
14:11can be
14:12expensive
14:13and those costs
14:15transaction
14:16and also
14:18It takes time
14:19a project
14:20carbon
14:21especially
14:22in community areas
14:23It is not done
14:24in 15 minutes
14:25It takes time
14:26of a process
14:27training
14:29of understanding
14:30so that it can be taken
14:32just
14:32I think there
14:33Yeah
14:34We have to give it
14:35leverage
14:36for those costs
14:37transaction
14:38especially
14:39on the topic
14:40of territories
14:41of communities
14:42That's going to be it.
14:43one of the characteristics
14:44of the new
14:45regulations
14:45that's how it is
14:46to have a market
14:48transparent
14:50inclusive
14:50I don't have it
14:51very light
14:52still
14:54but there are
14:55a system
14:55follow-up
14:56of projects
14:56carbon
14:57in Colombia
14:57that did
14:58XM
15:00which is called
15:02he
15:03Corel Register
15:04that has
15:06a topic
15:06blockchain
15:07very interesting
15:08I believe
15:08something like that
15:09or similar
15:11or if possible
15:14that same one
15:15with some
15:16modifications
15:17could be
15:18our system
15:19registration
15:19state
15:20of projects
15:21carbon
15:21for the greatest
15:22transparency
15:24and that would prevent
15:25Just to wrap things up
15:27this chapter
15:27of the carbon market
15:28of the credits
15:29carbon
15:30would prevent them from occurring
15:31cases
15:32that have been
15:35controversial
15:35like the one that happened
15:36in the Amazon
15:38in the Apaporis
15:39Yeah
15:40there have been
15:42issues
15:42of
15:43fairly
15:44for not having
15:45a system
15:45robust
15:46and a system
15:48registration
15:49they are presented
15:50these cases
15:51there is
15:51companies
15:52the Cowboys
15:53Coal
15:54that exist
15:55in Colombia
15:56that they have done
15:59projects
16:00developmental
16:01carbon
16:04deceiving
16:04to the communities
16:05staying
16:06with the greatest
16:07part
16:07of benefits
16:08that's why
16:08I'll do it to you
16:09I'm talking to you
16:10of criteria
16:11quality
16:11in the market
16:12carbon
16:13in Colombia
16:13so that they don't happen again
16:15those cases
16:15that for one
16:16because they suffer
16:17all
16:17the market
16:18carbon
16:19It doesn't work
16:19because it is a
16:20speculation
16:20to favor
16:22to one
16:23There are some
16:24very good
16:25if you speak
16:26with the communities
16:26from the north
16:27from Chocó
16:27the example
16:28from Cocomazú
16:29wow
16:31simply that now
16:32because he relaxed
16:32the market
16:33and they no longer receive
16:34what I had
16:35people
16:35because the price
16:36he fell to the ground
16:36with the measures
16:37of the government
16:38to remove
16:39carbon
16:41neutrality
16:41within the tax
16:42carbon
16:43OK
16:43minister
16:45changing the subject
16:45she likes
16:46the idea
16:46of an Amazon
16:47free
16:47of exploitation
16:48oil
16:49gas
16:49and exploitation
16:50of minerals
16:51as it has
16:52promoted
16:52this government
16:53the Amazon
16:55Colombian
16:55It's more than
16:56forty-something
16:57percent
16:59of the territory
17:00national
17:01the Amazon
17:02in its greatest
17:03part
17:03in Colombia
17:05fortunately
17:06wise decisions
17:07that were taken
17:08in governments
17:08previous
17:09I remember the decisions
17:11of the government
17:12from the ship
17:12the Amazon
17:14in Colombia
17:15a large part
17:16of the territories
17:17are territories
17:19of communities
17:19Indianas
17:20recognized
17:22and
17:23territories
17:25of
17:26parks
17:27national
17:29we have the parks
17:30national
17:30larger
17:31in
17:32yayajepa
17:33poris
17:33puree
17:34chiribiquete
17:38churumelos
17:39we have a
17:41important area
17:42of areas
17:43protected
17:44national
17:44and areas
17:44protected
17:45regional
17:46the topic
17:48oil
17:49exists
17:49in Putumayo
17:51outside
17:52of the areas
17:53protected
17:53from the time
17:54from Ecopetrol
17:56deposits
17:57oil tankers
17:58that have been
17:58exploited
17:59and that have served
17:59a lot
18:03Ecopetrol
18:04Earth Energy
18:05and others
18:05I'm not a friend
18:07of exploitation
18:08of hydrocarbons
18:10in the Amazon
18:10plebs
18:11For example
18:11alluvial
18:12in territories
18:14Indianas
18:14It is not possible
18:15suddenly
18:16in areas
18:17foothills
18:18one might think
18:19in something
18:20but
18:21not at all
18:22in the territories
18:23forbidden
18:24and high
18:25sensitivity
18:26environmental
18:26almost all
18:27the Amazon
18:28It is high
18:29sensitivity
18:30environmental
18:30but there will be
18:31what to see
18:31case by
18:32case
18:32clear
18:33But that means
18:34minister
18:35that you
18:37I would give him
18:39continuity
18:39to the process
18:40that precisely
18:41recently
18:43the ministry opened
18:44environment
18:44the process
18:44of consultations
18:45previews
18:45to declare
18:47the entire Amazon
18:47community
18:48excluded
18:49of those activities
18:49extractive
18:50or it would stop him
18:52and not
18:52would continue
18:52I believe
18:53that
18:56regulate
18:56It's not governing
19:00when you
19:01you do that kind of thing
19:02of
19:02of
19:04exclusions
19:05what you are
19:06promoting
19:07It's a huge
19:08illegality
19:11in the case
19:12of hydrocarbons
19:13Well, it's difficult.
19:14that there are hydrocarbons
19:15illegal
19:16for all that
19:16how it carries
19:17an activity
19:18extraction
19:19of hydrocarbons
19:20but in the case
19:22of the minerals
19:23metallic
19:24gold
19:25and so on
19:25because it is the earth
19:27nobody's
19:27if we do
19:29that guy
19:29of things
19:30what we are
19:30is promoting
19:31to that the
19:33illegality
19:34arrive massively
19:35so we stayed
19:36without the bread
19:37and without the cheese
19:38so
19:39a topic
19:40mostly
19:41of origin
19:42populist
19:44we are going to declare
19:46the Amazon
19:46free
19:47of
19:48exploitation
19:49mining
19:49low
19:52on paper
19:54but in practice
19:56You'll see
19:56that what you're going
19:57to contribute
19:58to illegality
20:00so
20:00We have to do
20:01a fair balance
20:02that is to say
20:03It's open
20:04that there is
20:04those activities
20:05legally
20:06in territories
20:07unprotected
20:07not committed
20:09OK
20:10That doesn't depend
20:12of the ministry
20:12of environments
20:13It depends on the proposal
20:14that he does
20:15the sector
20:16of mines and energy
20:17speaking of
20:19hydrocarbons
20:20minister
20:20one of the topics
20:22centrals
20:23environmental
20:24likely
20:25one of the only
20:26that
20:26of those that were discussed
20:28in this campaign
20:29was
20:29fracking
20:31There are some
20:32researchers
20:33that
20:34suggest
20:35that the state
20:36It doesn't have it yet
20:36that capacity
20:37to monitor
20:37the impacts
20:38of this practice
20:40another sector
20:41of the industry
20:42has asked
20:43quicken the pace
20:43and the same
20:44president
20:45of the spurge
20:45says he's going
20:46to have
20:47fracking
20:48in Colombia
20:49you
20:49where is
20:50for
20:50the state
20:50It does not have
20:51ability
20:51to monitor
20:52control
20:53of ignorance
20:54300,000
20:56hectares
20:56devastated
20:57through mining
20:58illegal
20:59in it
21:00lower Cauca
21:05a few years ago
21:06searched
21:08a panel
21:11independent
21:12of experts
21:13so that
21:15analyze
21:16which would
21:16the conditions
21:17for
21:19use
21:21fracking
21:21in Colombia
21:22and they exist
21:23some terms
21:23reference
21:27us
21:28we are
21:29in the face of a crisis
21:30energy
21:30serious
21:31the ministry
21:33of the environment
21:34He is not responsible
21:36fracking
21:36It's going to be
21:38responsible
21:39about what
21:40eventually
21:41when it is proposed
21:42have the best
21:44characteristics
21:45and minimize
21:45the risks
21:46control
21:47fracking
21:48several years ago
21:49in the United States
21:50monitored by the EPA
21:53and
21:54He does it very well.
21:55has been
21:57in some
21:58of those
21:58sites
22:01I think that
22:02there is no
22:02none
22:02barrier
22:02technology
22:03insurmountable
22:04to do it
22:05properly
22:05not in all
22:07the sites
22:08logically
22:09there are territories
22:10in 90%
22:11more than
22:12territory
22:13national
22:13It is forbidden
22:15for fracking
22:15because
22:16are
22:16areas
22:17sensitivity
22:18environmental
22:19or there isn't one
22:19gas
22:20of shale
22:21only
22:22are
22:22in some
22:23sites
22:23very specific
22:24from the point
22:25from a view
22:26of
22:30implementation
22:31they do not exist
22:31barriers
22:32technological
22:33to do it
22:33properly
22:35OK
22:36but
22:37believes that
22:38the state
22:38has the ability
22:39to decrease
22:40those risks
22:40that can
22:41introduce
22:42of course
22:42for that
22:43we have a
22:44licensing unit
22:45environmental
22:46and surveillance
22:47if required
22:49in these cases
22:51fracking
22:52we would have
22:53an audit
22:54international
22:55of the highest level
22:56who will support us
22:57in these
22:58first
22:59if they occur
23:00the projects
23:02on the side
23:04of the IAIA
23:05which is the
23:05International Association
23:06Environmental Impacts
23:08what we would do
23:10would be to call
23:11to the IAIA
23:12that supports us
23:12in the monitoring
23:14and teach us
23:15during the march
23:17which are
23:17the best
23:17practices
23:19and standards
23:19follow-up
23:20because of the implementation
23:22She has to do them
23:24who
23:24does the activity
23:27OK
23:29other
23:30conflict
23:31socio-environmental
23:32that is being talked about
23:33a lot
23:33here in Colombia
23:34and that has
23:34popularized
23:35a lot
23:35in recent years
23:36It has to do with
23:37with mining
23:37what is done
23:38gold mining
23:39what is done
23:40in Santurbán
23:40which also
23:41a year ago
23:42was declared
23:43as a subject
23:44rights
23:45and the delimitation
23:46It is still pending
23:47you
23:50How will it move forward?
23:52in the delimitation
23:53from Santurbán
23:54Or do you have any plans?
23:55the delimitation
23:56from Santurbán
23:57It's an order
23:58of the court
23:59to the minister
24:00current
24:00They just finished
24:01to declare
24:01an act of contempt
24:02with the
24:03with the delimitation
24:05It has to be done
24:06taking into account
24:07environmental criteria
24:08but also
24:09social criteria
24:11all mining
24:13that is around
24:14from Santurbán
24:15occurs
24:15from the colony
24:17And it's not mining.
24:19formal
24:21It's mining
24:22informal
24:23suddenly
24:24It is not illegal
24:25but if
24:25informal
24:27and the names
24:28of those municipalities
24:30one is called
24:31California
24:31and the slope
24:33It's 30 degrees
24:35I mean
24:35which is not
24:36because of the flatness
24:37It's because of the image.
24:38of gold
24:39of California
24:40the other
24:41is called
24:41betas
24:42It must be
24:42for a reason
24:43related
24:43with mining
24:44so
24:44There is a topic
24:47from the colony
24:48gold
24:49in those places
24:50What there is is
24:51to delimit it
24:53one of the ways
24:55that I would see
24:57if there is any kind
24:59of use
25:00gold
25:00formal
25:01outside the moor
25:03after being
25:04delimited
25:05What will it be?
25:05one of the first
25:06shares
25:07that I will take
25:07as minister
25:09of the environment
25:09to have it ready
25:11as one
25:11of the topics
25:12early
25:13to do
25:14to solve
25:15that conflict
25:17a
25:17the company
25:18What are you doing?
25:19exploration
25:20gold
25:20in
25:22exploration
25:22in Santurman
25:24It is a company
25:25Canadian
25:25which is called
25:25Iris Mining
25:28Iris Mining
25:30It has a mine
25:31gold
25:32the second largest
25:33from Colombia
25:34formal
25:35because
25:35I mean
25:37that 85%
25:39of gold
25:39that is exploited
25:40in Colombia
25:40It is illegal
25:42and criminal
25:4385
25:45the second mine
25:47gold
25:47of the country
25:48formal
25:48It's from
25:49Iris Mining
25:50Iris Mining
25:54has grouped
25:5534,000
25:57people
25:57what they were doing
25:58informal mining
25:59and illegal
26:01around
26:02of their activity
26:03and has formalized it
26:0434,000
26:09That's the secret
26:10best kept
26:11from mining
26:12in Colombia
26:12Nobody knows him
26:13That's an example.
26:15which must be repeated
26:16because formalization
26:18makes people
26:19earn more money
26:20they take advantage
26:22of the facilities
26:23that the company has
26:25of the industry
26:26and
26:27formalization
26:28entails
26:29that it complies
26:30with some criteria
26:31minimum environmental
26:32for your benefit
26:33that is to say
26:34minister
26:34Yes, I understand.
26:35You are a supporter
26:36to formalize
26:37to the miners
26:39who are in California
26:40and in Betas
26:41and allow
26:42that this company
26:43Canadian
26:46take another step forward
26:47towards exploitation
26:48delimiting
26:49delimiting the for
26:50delimiting the for
26:51delimiting the for
26:52first define the for
26:53to delimit the for
26:55through criteria
26:57of biodiversity
26:58clearly
27:00among other things
27:02who helped
27:03to the statement
27:04protected area
27:05from Santurban
27:06It was me
27:07international conservation
27:10at the time
27:11He brought forward the studies
27:13so that
27:13outside protected area
27:14then more than me
27:15Santurban hurts me
27:17now
27:19It's clear.
27:20which also
27:20There is an activity
27:21that can enter
27:22to the moor
27:23inclusive
27:23is coming in
27:24to the moor
27:24on many occasions
27:25what does that have to do with it
27:26with that informal mining
27:29from which he lives
27:30all those people
27:30So I think
27:32that we have there
27:33a collision course
27:35but that needs to be resolved
27:38memory
27:39minister
27:41does
27:43It's 2026
27:44when it started
27:45the period
27:45by Juan Manuel Santos
27:47which also
27:47he wanted to give
27:47an impulse
27:48to exploitation
27:50of hydrocarbons
27:51and minerals
27:52also
27:52a boil
27:54of conflicts
27:54socio-environmental
27:55You are not afraid
27:56that it happens
27:58something similar
27:59with this momentum
28:01to exploitation
28:03of natural resources
28:04Well, I think
28:04that the country
28:06He has to learn
28:07to work
28:08in the middle
28:08with the communities
28:10I believe
28:10that the topic
28:12a large part
28:12For example
28:13the topic
28:13from mining
28:14gold
28:14They have collapsed here
28:16several projects
28:16very interesting
28:17for the country
28:18Santurbán
28:18is one of them
28:19Santurbán
28:20This is the fourth owner
28:22Santurbán
28:23first
28:23It was a company
28:24Canadian
28:24that had
28:25support
28:25inclusive
28:26from the IFC
28:29and when that
28:30arrive
28:30the delimitation
28:31the statement
28:32of the reprotected
28:33so
28:33They did not advance
28:36in changing
28:36technology
28:37because I already had
28:38something and left
28:38They sold it
28:40then they sold it to her
28:42to a company
28:43Brazilian
28:44belonging
28:45to
28:45Aike Batista
28:47the millionaire
28:47this former millionaire
28:49because since
28:49He is Brazilian.
28:50that had
28:51Company X
28:53Aike Batista
28:55used
28:55funds
28:56bottom
28:57sovereign
28:58from Saudi Arabia
29:01And since he didn't pay them
29:02and a fund
29:03sovereign
29:03of the country
29:04were obtained
29:04that assume
29:05the project
29:05and that's when
29:06The Arabs arrived
29:07and finally
29:08is in the lead
29:10of a company
29:11which has a little
29:11more robust
29:13technique
29:13to do
29:14the use
29:15of gold
29:15so
29:16let's say
29:16has had
29:17many topics
29:18but also
29:19there have been
29:20other interesting ones
29:21attempts
29:24the colossus
29:25in Tolima
29:27that I believe
29:28which was a bad
29:29approach
29:29of
29:31the company
29:32in this case
29:33I think it was
29:34Anglo
29:34Gold
29:34Ashanti
29:37for mining
29:39in Cajamarca
29:40and community
29:41in Cajamarca
29:42You have to use
29:43the strategy
29:44of Mr.
29:44of the rings
29:47Did you see the movie?
29:48clear
29:49Well
29:50if you have been
29:51over there
29:51in New Zealand
29:52near Oakland
29:53where they filmed
29:55the earth
29:56of the hobbits
29:57before doing
29:58the first film
29:59ten years earlier
30:00They began to prepare
30:01the locations
30:05so that when
30:06I've already come to film
30:07the trees
30:08were big
30:08it will be noticeable
30:09that the house
30:10of the hobbits
30:11It had vegetation
30:12natural
30:12etc.
30:12etc.
30:13with mining
30:14That's right
30:16you have
30:17some time
30:18transaction
30:19can you
30:20arrive
30:21to burst in
30:22and say
30:23I have
30:24a project
30:24miner
30:25I'm going to do it
30:25there
30:25no way
30:27you're going to find
30:29with a huge
30:29so
30:30is the way
30:30of approach
30:32the costs
30:33transaction
30:34of a project
30:34miner
30:35They are tall
30:36the resources
30:38between a title
30:38miner
30:39and an exploitation
30:41mining
30:41there is a difference
30:43enormous
30:43and the times
30:45They are also
30:45significant
30:46So I think
30:48that the country
30:48has to be
30:49a country
30:51that has
30:51miners
30:52to pass
30:53to be a country
30:54miner
30:55He has to learn
30:56those lessons
30:59is a supporter
31:01that we may be
31:01a country
31:02miner
31:03So let's take advantage of it
31:04our resources
31:06I don't think so
31:07the main source
31:08income
31:09mining
31:10But if we have
31:10resources
31:11That doesn't mean
31:13that we are going to destroy
31:14that's it
31:14where it is formed
31:15the topic
31:16of environmental hysteria
31:18the fact
31:18that I say
31:19that
31:20I hope
31:20Colombia
31:20want resources
31:22of its mining
31:23to invest
31:24in its sustainability
31:25long term
31:27does not mean
31:28that I am
31:29promoting
31:29whatever
31:30mining
31:31everywhere
31:31That's part of it.
31:33from reading
31:34which is sometimes done
31:35and a narrative
31:36that need to change
31:37we need to teach him
31:39to the people
31:39that all this
31:40It has some processes
31:42that cannot be done
31:44to the topa tolondra
31:45whether you are
31:46an investor
31:47in Colombia
31:49It is a country
31:50that has
31:51a rootedness
31:52territorial
31:53very strong
31:54where you
31:55you can't help
31:55to arrive
31:56to burst in
31:57now
31:58in the case
31:58of Saint Urban
31:59everyone
31:59Vote for mining
32:01because it is its main
32:02row
32:03of the local economy
32:06It's already been done
32:07in one of the municipalities
32:08It's already been done
32:09the part
32:10room
32:11missing rest
32:12so
32:13I believe
32:14that this
32:15It's a question
32:15of taking it
32:16professionally
32:17do it
32:18with the best
32:19information
32:20possible
32:21be totally
32:23transparent
32:24in all
32:24the processes
32:25and take into account
32:26that the limitation
32:28is the alteration
32:29what can you do
32:30on sustainability
32:31and about the environment
32:32and always
32:33respecting the processes
32:34prior consultation
32:35But of course
32:36on the one hand
32:38now then
32:39prior consultation
32:42have
32:43blurred
32:44the topics
32:45prior consultation
32:46in Colombia
32:46and has become
32:48on a topic
32:49transactional
32:51in what sense
32:52as if
32:53a topic
32:54negotiation
32:55How much will you give me?
32:55if I leave you
32:56you understand
32:57prior consultation
32:59Okay
33:00300 million
33:01of pesos
33:01He gives it to me.
33:02I bring the people
33:04I believe
33:05that there is a problem
33:07of origin
33:09not so much
33:10in the sector
33:11miner
33:11but for example
33:12in the sector
33:12transport
33:13of roads
33:16us
33:16we live
33:17most
33:18of the population
33:19He lives in the Andes
33:22Bogotá
33:2325%
33:24of GDP
33:25from Colombia
33:25has
33:26a population
33:27significant
33:28one kilo
33:29charging
33:30from here
33:31to Cartagena
33:32to Santa Marta
33:34to Barranquilla
33:36or to Buenaventura
33:38which are
33:38our ports
33:39main
33:40now
33:40to Urabá
33:42Okay
33:43three times more
33:44that from there
33:45to Tokyo
33:47because?
33:48because our
33:50infrastructure
33:51road
33:55this
33:56to the rear
33:57of the planet
33:5870%
33:59of the countries
34:01of the world
34:03They have better
34:04infrastructure
34:05road
34:06that Colombia
34:06There is an indicator
34:08from the World Bank
34:09that I saw a few years ago
34:10I don't know if they will be
34:11updated
34:12but
34:12USA
34:13For example
34:13It has 28,000
34:15kilometers
34:15of roads
34:17federal
34:17per million
34:18of inhabitants
34:19we have
34:19like 700
34:20and the region
34:212,500
34:21Jorge and I
34:22We're in line
34:24of the world
34:25the roads
34:26can be a factor
34:27of alteration
34:28environmental
34:29but they are
34:30also a factor
34:31competitiveness
34:32then we have
34:35the problem
34:36how we do it
34:38and we're not doing it right
34:40We didn't get it right.
34:41the projects
34:42It is not possible
34:43that the route of the sun
34:45is not completed
34:47and it's not because
34:48hiring problems
34:49corruption
34:50that has existed
34:50in some cases
34:51It's because of problems.
34:52planning
34:53of projects
34:56the warrior
34:57buga
34:59fundamental
34:59for the economy
35:00of the country
35:0020 years unemployed
35:03by topic
35:04of consultations
35:04And we will continue
35:06So
35:06in my land
35:08There is a road
35:09to the sea
35:09extremely important
35:11one step
35:11by Lorica
35:13It is suspended
35:14and it's a neck
35:14bottle
35:15then we have
35:16enormous necks
35:17bottle
35:17in competitiveness
35:19And I think that's a problem
35:20of conception
35:21of projects
35:22sectorial
35:22which is a topic
35:23that from the
35:24Ministry of Environment
35:25we're going to
35:27talk a lot
35:28with the Ministry
35:28Transportation
35:29to see
35:29How do we fix it?
35:31how it's done today
35:32a project
35:32and why
35:33Problems arise
35:34in the Ministry
35:35Transportation
35:35the ANI
35:36or the National Agency
35:38Infrastructure
35:39or the roads
35:42conceive a project
35:43He does some studies
35:44engineering
35:45choose a route
35:47He does some studies
35:49financial
35:49deep
35:50something environmental
35:52makes a bid
35:55awards
35:55and tells him
35:57to the dealer
35:58Now go
35:59and take it out
36:01the license
36:03and surely
36:04many things
36:05were excavated
36:06and there were no
36:07in account
36:07has been seen
36:08in all
36:09the projects
36:09roads
36:10and the difference
36:11of doing it
36:12there
36:13to have had it
36:14in account
36:14before
36:15It's the same
36:16difference
36:16that is between
36:17a diagnosis
36:18and an autopsy
36:20then we have
36:22what to learn
36:22to conceive
36:24both environmental
36:25as social
36:27our projects
36:28roads
36:29because until now
36:29It is a limitation
36:30to competitiveness
36:32we here
36:34in Conservation
36:34International
36:35jointly
36:35with other partners
36:38we design
36:39a software
36:39alarms
36:41seasons
36:41about projects
36:42roads
36:42which is called
36:43Tremarcos
36:43where you
36:45in a project
36:46road
36:46from A to B
36:47you put the shape
36:48or you set the layout
36:49and tells you
36:50What problems?
36:51environmental
36:51you'll find
36:53at the screening level
36:54of some characteristics
36:55that's not all
36:56It's not a study
36:57environmental
36:57But if it gives you
37:00a screening
37:01so that you can decide
37:02that you have to
37:02deepen
37:04in the last
37:05years
37:06Thanks to the support
37:07of a corporation
37:08autonic
37:08the CDC
37:10jointly
37:10with the University
37:11of the Andes
37:12we raise
37:13Tremartus
37:14which is called
37:14the first version
37:15to a topic
37:17which is called
37:17Today Tapir
37:20with intelligence
37:21artificial
37:21that you set point A
37:22to point B
37:23And you ask him
37:25Which is the best
37:26environmentally friendly layout
37:28possible?
37:29He'll draw it for you.
37:30That needs improvement
37:32We need to delve deeper into it
37:34But that will save you
37:36many of the conflicts
37:37that you have today
37:38clear
37:38but only to close
37:40that chapter
37:40of the prior consultations
37:41If I understand correctly
37:42what you
37:44I'd like
37:45I would aspire
37:45is to modify
37:46that process
37:47in the case
37:48of projects
37:50road infrastructure
37:51of any kind
37:53of projects
37:54and one of the main
37:55modifications
37:56It's that you shouldn't
37:59delegate
38:01the process
38:02consultation
38:03preview
38:04to the promoter
38:05of the project
38:06So who
38:07Should I do it?
38:08The government!
38:10directly
38:11if the government
38:12He's going to want
38:14develop
38:14an infrastructure
38:15whoever does it
38:17has to assume
38:18directly
38:19the process
38:19consultation
38:20if you delegate
38:21in a third
38:22You are delegating
38:23a function
38:24inherent
38:25to the actions
38:25government
38:26Why?
38:27about what?
38:28that many times
38:29the consultation
38:30about a project
38:31certain
38:32well, many communities
38:34They have cravings
38:36or they have deficiencies
38:39historical
38:40lack of response
38:42from the same state
38:43to those deficiencies
38:44and a project
38:45certain
38:46He can't solve it
38:47therefore
38:48the state
38:49is the one who should
38:50lead
38:51that process
38:52consultation
38:53not being the referee
38:54like today
38:55appears with the ministry
38:57from the interior
38:59I think the process
39:01consultation
39:02It's a topic
39:02so important
39:04which should be
39:05a project
39:06dialogue
39:07permanent
39:08for me
39:09It's a decision
39:10logically
39:10I would think
39:11an organization
39:14an organism
39:15of the state
39:15dedicated
39:17to dialogue
39:17permanent
39:18and to the process
39:19of consultations
39:20not everything
39:22It will be resolved
39:23with a consultation
39:24if you don't have
39:25a preparation
39:26preview
39:27That's why
39:28many topics collapse
39:29Why ask a question?
39:31quick
39:32what creates
39:33These are conditions
39:34and as the dealer
39:36It has a limited time.
39:37for implementation
39:39of their activity
39:39creates a conditioning
39:41that ends
39:43converted
39:44in a matter
39:44transactional
39:47minister
39:48we already
39:48the last questions
39:49punctual
39:50that we are
39:50running out of time
39:53in your hands
39:54It's going to have
39:55the task
39:56to implement
39:58the management plan
39:59and control
40:00of the hippos
40:01which is a topic
40:02from a great conversation
40:03here in the country
40:04What is your position?
40:06forehead
40:06to this
40:07this problem
40:08which represents
40:09this species
40:10invasive exotic
40:13invasive
40:14with major problems
40:16and we have
40:17a significant number
40:19of hippos
40:21well
40:21It's a topic
40:24let's say
40:24There are several trends
40:27on the one hand
40:28the agreement
40:29of biological diversity
40:31in which Colombia
40:32is a signatory
40:34on topic
40:35of the species
40:36introduced
40:36one of the alternatives
40:38It's lethal control
40:41how it was done
40:42in the album
40:42with the goats
40:45They conducted a check
40:46lethal
40:47with the goats
40:47and it was an operation
40:48gigantic
40:49which cost
40:49millions of dollars
40:51I believe
40:52that with a goat
40:52is possible
40:53but with a hippopotamus
40:54It's complex
40:56given the characteristics
40:57It is a mammal
40:59quite robust
41:00has found
41:01some conditions
41:02in Colombia
41:02interesting
41:03because it doesn't have
41:04climate stresses
41:06that finds
41:06in their native environment
41:08which
41:09has contributed
41:10to prosper
41:11causing enormous problems
41:15hippo
41:16asolva
41:17wetlands
41:17shifts
41:18native favor
41:19can be aggressive
41:21even if we say
41:22the hippos
41:23in Colombia
41:23They're not like in Africa
41:24so aggressive
41:27like in Africa
41:27that they already have
41:28a behavior
41:30a little bit suddenly
41:30due to some situations
41:32less rugged
41:32and also
41:33he doesn't have to fight
41:33with other predators
41:36in some stages
41:37of his life
41:39so
41:40for me
41:41I think that
41:42lethal control
41:42It's not going to be
41:43a solution
41:45we have to look
41:46another solution
41:47smarter
41:48We're thinking about it
41:51but from now on
41:52I rule it out
41:54for reasons
41:55of sensitivity
41:58to launch
41:59that signal
42:00towards lethal control
42:01So be it
42:03recommended
42:03and be a
42:05of the shares
42:07recommended
42:07by the same
42:08agreement
42:09of diversity
42:09biological
42:10in one of the successions
42:11so
42:12we'll talk
42:13of the hippos
42:13after
42:14when we have
42:14a solution
42:15a bit
42:17less aggressive
42:18towards people
42:19But for now
42:20lethal control
42:21which is a
42:21of the recommendations
42:22what has he done
42:24a group
42:24researcher
42:24scientists
42:25It won't work
42:26of hippos
42:28OK
42:29I mean
42:29that control plan
42:30for now
42:31management plan
42:32and control
42:32of the hippos
42:32at least in that action
42:33It's going to be paused
42:34No
42:35paused no
42:36We're going to work
42:37because the problem
42:38continues to grow
42:38and before a year
42:40government
42:41we need to have
42:42a solution
42:43This has been delayed
42:45eternally
42:45for 30 years
42:47since they killed
42:48the first hippopotamus
42:51who had a reaction
42:52equivocal
42:53because
42:54what was presented
42:55in the press
42:56They were soldiers
42:57that they were watching
42:58control
42:59of the hippos
43:00and appeared
43:01on the front page
43:02then
43:03I said
43:04as conservation
43:06international
43:06that the control
43:07lethal
43:07It was an alternative
43:09and?
43:10I wish it would be used
43:12before growth
43:14excessive
43:15of the population
43:15which becomes
43:16in invasive
43:18everyone
43:19I lifted up
43:20kicking
43:20because it was
43:21a position
43:22a little strong
43:24But if there had been
43:25done at the time
43:25we wouldn't have
43:26the problem
43:26that we would have today
43:27and that's it
43:28there is no point
43:30return
43:31control already in place
43:32lethal
43:32It shouldn't be
43:33with this population
43:34so important
43:35we'll see
43:36How do we solve it?
43:37that I can guarantee you
43:39and announce
43:40from now on
43:41the thing is
43:42He doesn't speak
43:43lethal control
43:43with the hippos
43:44further
44:04Thanks for watching the video.
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