- 31 minutes ago
In this panel, sponsored by Verizon Media, Hannah Hart, Hayley Pappas, Gigi Gorgeous, Joey Graceffa, Anna Akana, Eugene Lee Yang, Miles McKenna take an in-depth look behind the curtain at the inclusivity of digital content.
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00:00So my name is Alexis Fish.
00:02My pronouns are she, her, hers.
00:04I am the vice president of Pride at Valence Media
00:07and the editor of Billboard Pride.
00:11Wow, thanks.
00:14Today, oh, do we have a panel for you?
00:18Digital media, Pride, and platforms.
00:20I have been to so many conferences and summits,
00:23I can't tell you.
00:24And I don't want to hear the moderator.
00:25I want to hear the people.
00:26So I'm just going to jump right in
00:29and I'm going to tell you one thing.
00:33No, you know what?
00:35No, it ain't well.
00:35So we know the rise of queer media has directly contributed
00:39to the presence of queer stories in traditional media.
00:42And these people,
00:45they collectively reach millions and millions of people every day.
00:50And they entertain,
00:51but they also show us candid portrayals of queer lives.
00:54and they give their viewers a personal connection to LGBTQ stories,
01:00providing the kind of visibility,
01:02as I discussed in my speech earlier,
01:04we know they save lives.
01:08I'm so incredibly inspired,
01:11so incredibly inspired by what you guys do every single day,
01:15by what you people do every single day.
01:17Did you hear that?
01:18I use gendered language and I caught myself and that's okay.
01:21They put themselves out into the world as their authentic selves,
01:26both for praise and criticism.
01:29Their talent, strength and activism and your passion leaves me in awe, truly.
01:37So here we go.
01:39Let's go down the line, 30 seconds.
01:4330 whole seconds, my God.
01:45Introduce yourself and tell me the first queer content
01:51or content maker you watched online.
01:53Go.
01:54Hi, I'm Joey Graceffa.
01:55I would say the first was probably Tyler Oakley.
02:01Oh, sorry, still your answer.
02:04There really wasn't that many people.
02:05I started back in 2007, so there wasn't really a queer group of people making videos.
02:15So Tyler was definitely just one of the first that I just was like,
02:18identify with him.
02:20Maybe I don't realize it now, but I realized later that I did identify with him.
02:27I'm Gigi Gorgeous.
02:30And my first queer icon was Tyler Oakley.
02:34I also watched this guy.
02:36I don't know if there's any makeup lovers in the room, but his name was Petrelude.
02:40And he was okay.
02:41No, I was obsessed.
02:43He did.
02:43He worked at Mac and he like did drag and I was obsessed with him.
02:47And he was just out and proud.
02:48And it kind of made me get right.
02:51It was like light skin, like shaved head, super talented.
02:56Yeah, that made me kind of get creative.
02:59And then, you know, ultimately just like start doing makeup and share my story.
03:06Hi, my name is Haley Pappas.
03:09I think mine might have been pre-digital, probably some influencers in reality TV a little bit.
03:16I love it.
03:16I'm actually mentioning MTV.
03:18I think maybe some MTV shows back in the day.
03:21Tila Tequila, remember?
03:23Tila Tequila, exactly.
03:25I remember Tila Tequila.
03:27Yeah.
03:27No, but also the San Francisco cast of the real world.
03:30Yeah, I was thinking real world.
03:31I mean, and their conversation around HIV AIDS.
03:34Yeah, pretty influential.
03:35Are we going to age ourselves as talking about real world?
03:3840 and 40.
03:38Oh, I love it.
03:39I'm Eugene Lee Yang.
03:41If I had to, yeah, I really wasn't watching a lot of digital.
03:45I actually would say Hannah Hart was the first person I watched.
03:48She was out.
03:50So proud of you.
03:54But yeah, I also love, I watched a lot of friends who I went to school with start creating
03:58content who were out.
04:00Brian Jordan Alvarez does some really amazing sketch work.
04:03Yeah.
04:04So he and I went to USC together and I just, you know, that video of how gays like greet
04:07each other is still, I think, iconic.
04:10So yeah, yeah.
04:12I guess, hi, my name is Hannah Hart.
04:14I think that for me, probably the first queer influencers like in the digital, I would say,
04:22yeah, people like Tyler Oakley, Michael Buckley.
04:24There wasn't honestly like, yeah, any like cisgender, like female people I could identify with.
04:31But let's date ourselves.
04:33During the Teela Tequila Show, I remember Dani, remember that was like her love interest.
04:38And I was like, and at the time I was a closeted person and I was like, what is this?
04:43And why do I love it so much?
04:47I mean, I was rooting for them.
04:49Spoiler alert, didn't work out.
04:52Hi, I'm Anna Arcana and definitely on the internet, you were the first that I saw.
04:57And I remember being like, she's really cute.
05:01I'm straight right now because I'm so, I have so much internalized homophobia,
05:04but I was like, she's very cute.
05:07Wow, that's great to know.
05:09She's engaged, Anna, she's engaged.
05:11She's engaged, it's fine.
05:12I am, it's great.
05:15Hey, I'm Miles McKenna.
05:17Um, definitely like Daddy Tyler Oakley, like one of my first.
05:21Um, definitely Hannah Hart.
05:23Um, I'm 23, so like I started making YouTube videos when I was 11.
05:26So I was like watching and creating content, but none of my friends were creating content.
05:30Like it was definitely like a secret, like no one was really like a YouTuber back in like 2007.
05:35Until like, you know, like musical highs or whatever.
05:38Um, but yeah, I'm transgender.
05:39So it was really like a lot of blog posts for me, like on Tumblr.
05:42Like people sharing their trans experience.
05:43It wasn't a lot of video content.
05:45It was all like pictures and like progression and learning about like hormones.
05:48And it was really like written posts.
05:50Hmm, so you've been doing this for quite a while.
05:55How, how has it changed?
05:57I mean, there's, I know we've gone from the blogosphere, from MTV to the blogosphere,
06:00to YouTube and Snap and like, how has it changed over the years?
06:06My gosh, um, yeah, there's been a lot of evolution.
06:09I think right now it's become so mainstream that it's just a whole new audience is here.
06:15Where I feel like when YouTube started, it was a place for like the outcasts and kind of like
06:20the, the uncool kids to find a place where they could connect with people like them.
06:27And now I feel like the popular kids kind of found the secret hideout and are, um, kind of taking
06:32over in a way.
06:33Yeah, I feel like it's like so saturated now.
06:36Like I feel when I made my coming out video, you know who is another person?
06:40Troy Sivan.
06:41Oh yeah.
06:41He made a coming out video and I was gagged.
06:44I was like, oh my God, he's just in his room telling, like spilling everything that he has
06:49in him, all of his truth.
06:51And that really inspired me.
06:53So I feel like when I made my first coming out video, I was like not amongst many other
06:59people that made them.
07:00So I feel like now you can go on and find like, you know, thousands and thousands and
07:05thousands of like gay coming out videos or transgender coming out videos.
07:09And like all the education is there.
07:10So I feel like it being so saturated is so nice for people going through a hard time because
07:15it's like, I'm questioning these things.
07:18Like, I don't really feel like myself or I feel different from my friends.
07:21It's like literally type it into YouTube and you will find someone to answer your questions.
07:25I remember too.
07:26Oh, sorry.
07:29In the beginning, it was so many Asian creators too.
07:32I remember like Happy Slip, Community Channel, Ryan Higa, Michelle Phan, like all the biggest
07:36creators were Asian at one point.
07:38And I remember being like, oh my God, this is the first time I've seen someone on screen
07:41who really looks like me and that I identify with and all these different verticals.
07:45So it was a very big, safe Asian space.
07:48Yeah, I was gonna say that I think the difference between like back then, like vintage YouTube
07:51to like now is a lot of the jokes, like when I was in middle school, we're like saying like
07:57that gay is like a negative term, right?
08:00Like, oh, that's gay is negative.
08:02But now like you go to any meet and greet, like kids are saying like, oh, I'm gay, like move,
08:05I'm gay.
08:06And it's like such a positive thing.
08:07And it's such like, like a mainstream joke to say that like you're queer, that you're gay,
08:11like amongst these kids where it's like, whoa, if I was 13, I could not be like
08:14spilling that tea.
08:15Like, that's not it.
08:16I think it's really, you know, it's so wonderful that we get to live and work in this space
08:23and we get to live and work in cities that are also safe spaces.
08:27And I think that like, though YouTube has become more popularized and mainstream and exactly
08:32as you said, Joey, like, oh, no, now the formula is out there.
08:34So all the cool kids are doing it.
08:36Even though that's happened, I think that we still need to encourage other independent
08:41queer creators to find their places online and find their safe spaces online,
08:45because there's a whole lot of America and a whole lot of internet out there that is
08:49absolutely not safe, you know.
08:51Yeah.
08:52And my fear is that at this point, because it's become this like popularity hierarchy
08:57or this like fame hierarchy, that people won't feel as compelled to go out there and make their
09:02shorts and make their films or tell their stories because they're worried it'll look like they're
09:07trying to get famous, you know, that's a fear I have now that being YouTube is such an established
09:13means of income is that it's losing itself as an art form, you know, or an outlet.
09:19Yeah.
09:20Well, it's interesting because Haley is an executive at Riot Films and I think Verizon is
09:24an owner of Riot Films, one of our sponsors today.
09:28You're told, we talked about this, you're mining the online universe for content creators.
09:35Yeah, I think, you know, we primarily make documentaries in both feature length, obviously,
09:40which mostly don't live online, right?
09:42Those are usually seen in theaters or maybe at home, but often short documentaries.
09:47And I think a lot of what we've seen is that, yes, obviously we want to tell the stories of
09:51creators online who are percolating and help amplify those voices.
09:56But then also, you know, we go to countless film festivals and there are these beautiful,
10:00as you mentioned, short films that often sort of live and die in these film festivals,
10:04you know, unless there is a way to distribute them online and unless there's a platform,
10:09whether it's HuffPost or others, that can help amplify those voices, otherwise they can get buried.
10:15So yeah, I can't agree with you enough that I think that they're artful and beautiful and
10:19nuanced stories to be told and, you know, we have a privilege to be able to help share them.
10:25Eugene, do you, oh, I'm sorry, Haley.
10:27I'm good.
10:29Any vintage YouTube comments you want to?
10:32I'm good.
10:33I'm good.
10:34We love you, Miles.
10:37Eugene, is there something you think we, the industry, could be doing to help LGBTQ content
10:45creators access online in a better way and find visibility?
10:50Or do you think we've saturated?
10:51What's going on in that space?
10:55That's a complex thing to sort of suss out.
10:59I think that I kind of, I was at the creator summit for the first time this year, which is
11:04where they bring a lot of quote unquote, like top tier YouTubers together at some hotel and it's
11:09just a big old clusterfuck. And no, it was, it was wonderful to meet a lot of the creators.
11:14That was really awesome. But it was interesting because a lot of us were having similar discussions
11:19of where is YouTuber popularity at. Is it allowing for new fresh voices to actually perforate through
11:27or has YouTube actually become, as we've seen, sort of parallel to traditional industries as opposed
11:34to as it was before where we were seen as sort of under traditional. Now, you know, everyone is
11:39actually working on the same space because everything's coming together through things like streaming
11:43and you know, everyone is seeing each other as like a sort of a competitive talent. So it is
11:49interesting because I think YouTube in itself is also treating its creators as star vehicles.
11:53And I mean, the trending page, which really doesn't mean anything, is the primary example of that.
11:59You see the same people trend every single week. So I think that there's, I almost described it as
12:06digital content is, is like its own industry and it's going through the growing pains that I think
12:10even the film industry went through. I think that vintage YouTube was that great, like talkies era.
12:15And then like all the young people are coming up and doing weird things. And then, you know, recently
12:20with, I mean, even the rise of places like Buzzfeed that I used to work at, like that was the
12:24sort of
12:26vehicle in which they were trying to figure out how do we sell this? How do we market this? How
12:29do we
12:29package things? And now I think we're in this weird like golden age with like McCarthyism and there's like
12:33a lot of things that, you know, you know, you have that you go to hear from Marilyn Monroe and
12:37it's all very
12:38specifically constructed to get people to watch it. But I'm hoping that we're going to swing towards
12:44this like weird seventies, like we need to like weird Indio tours to come out of nowhere just to
12:49like bust the balls open. And that's why I try to do things like constantly we're asking how do we
12:53innovate and do different types of things online to make it feel like there's ownership there. So one
12:59thing on our end, I think is like people with visibility is to create stuff that challenges the
13:03notion that we are stuck in a place of just being popular. Like Shane Dawson's documentaries are a
13:09good example. You know, he didn't do anything like that before. And I think that's a wonderful peril to
13:14show that people are growing outside of that. I think the industry at large should recognize that and
13:19also support this idea that anyone can access those things because they should in the digital platform.
13:25Yeah. I think one of the things, um, first of all, I love you and I loved everything you just
13:32said.
13:33Uh, one of the things that I don't see anymore that, um, really kind of, uh, elevated, I guess,
13:41my career was that I remember Huffington Post would post, like I'd only made like maybe six,
13:47seven videos ever. And every single time I posted it, some food writer got it and would be like,
13:53hey, here's a new episode of My Drunk Kitchen, just so you know. And that is really what generated
13:58traffic. And I don't see as much positive media coverage of independent creators as I do see
14:06the TMZ style media coverage of people that are just doing, who knows, you know what I mean? And
14:13that's something I think that we're missing right now is that the journalism aspect is only interested
14:19in talking to the top tier as to before when it was like, oh, look, these are interesting things
14:25people are doing online. Like I still get quoted in articles that are like top 10 creators doing
14:30unique things online. I'm like, since when? Me? I've been doing this eight years. There's nothing
14:35I do is that unique. You know what I mean? Like there's no discovery through journalism anymore.
14:40It's all just reflections from the top. I would agree. And I do think that we have,
14:47as you know, HuffPost is one of our sister brands. And I think that we have a responsibility
14:50to be identifying and curating and endorsing in that way. Yeah. Yeah. Straight up. If that HuffPost
14:57food writer, whoever you are, wherever you are, hadn't just been like, oh, here's a new episode of
15:02that funny new YouTube show. I mean, and at the time, it's like 100,000 views, but those 100,000
15:07views
15:08made my career, you know? Yeah. Gigi, Eugene mentioned sort of crossing over, crossing over
15:16in traditional media using the platform of digital. Is that something that you see happening a lot for
15:25people? And is that something you, any of you, is that something you want to do? Or do you want
15:29to
15:30use this as a jumping off point? And how have you done it? I mean, for me, I, I've been
15:34doing YouTube
15:35a very long time, similar to Joey and Hannah. I mean, as everyone here. To be fair, you guys were
15:412007. I was 2011. Oh. Yeah. So we're, we're really OG. Yeah. Dusty. I feel. Dusty. I meant to drop
15:52my mic down. Vintage. Vintage, vintage. We're like fine wine. We get better with time. Yeah.
15:58Yeah. I feel like for, like, I get asked a lot because we have been doing it so long. It's
16:05like,
16:05oh, well, are you always going to do YouTube? Or like, say you're in a movie someday? Are you just
16:09gonna, you know, quit YouTube? And my answer is always like, no, because that's what, what gave me
16:15the confidence. And when I did my documentary through YouTube, a lot of people were asking me
16:20the same thing. I'm like, absolutely not. Like, you know, it's like even more reason to connect with
16:25more people because it's more saturated and it's just that much more meaningful, I feel for me and
16:31the viewers. But also whenever I see like, I mean, Lily, who is a fellow Canadian girl, just got a
16:38late night talk show, which is like maybe the most mainstream thing ever. And I'm so happy because
16:45honestly, I feel that YouTubers a lot of the time have more of a deeper connection with their fans than,
16:51you know, even like a Leonardo DiCaprio, because it's literally them turning on the camera with
16:57whether they have a team or not, and literally just talking to the camera. And it's more of that
17:02genuine connection. Like when people meet their favorite YouTubers, they like literally break
17:07down and cry because it's like they really helped them through a really hard time. And it's, it's seeing
17:13people transition from, you know, the digital space into the mainstream space. I just love it so much.
17:19Like Troye Sivan, for example, he just is like killing it so hard in the music industry. And it's
17:25like, he did stop YouTube, but it's because he's killing it so hard in the mainstream and he's still
17:31doing his thing, you know, on the cover of the billboard pride issue last year.
17:36Oh, yeah.
17:39Yeah.
17:40Anna.
17:41One thing I do find frustrating, I mean, I'm in the filmmaking vertical, so it is a little different,
17:45but the CPMs of YouTube and the business side of YouTube has fallen so drastically, it really
17:51doesn't encourage you to make really expensive, high quality content. Each of my videos cost about
17:573,000 to produce, just like a regular vlog, so I can pay my crew and feed them well. And
18:02I make
18:02only $300 on the AdSense revenue side. So I rely very heavily on outside brand deals, integrated
18:09either at the end or throughout the video, in order to like pay my crew a couple hundred bucks a
18:14day.
18:15And, you know, to your point of being an executive, like, I love making short films, I love finding
18:20short films online, but there's, right now, there isn't a sustainable model unless you
18:24rely on an outside advertiser. And YouTube itself, the algorithm plays to those channels
18:29that thrive on just talking shit or stirring up drama, which there is a place for that,
18:34I understand, I love reality TV, but I feel like it really discourages true art from coming
18:39out.
18:40It's the independent, and I wonder if people are going to start talking about this, but
18:46looking to traditional Hollywood's path and looking to the mainstream blockbuster versus
18:52the independent film industry, right? There are people that save up their money to make
18:56a movie that won't even get them the $300 back, right? And I think that because the celebrity
19:03aspect has come so front and center, it's like people are forgetting that it's also
19:09a distribution model for your art, not just your talent, you know? I mean, the talent side
19:14of it, it's obviously huge, but I think people have really kind of like latched onto that.
19:18Like with The Gay and Wondrous Life of Caleb Gallo, that is one of my favorite scripted
19:23series ever. And it's not like it made like this like massive splash, but it was really
19:31good for Ryan's career. But what I'm trying to say is that people have done this before,
19:36entertainment has evolved before, and I think that we need to study more the history of film
19:41and television and find the similarities more than the differences.
19:47Yeah, agreed. And I think that it's a fallacy now to continue this sort of us versus them,
19:54traditional versus digital that has kind of, it's sort of perforated most of the conversations
19:58for the past, I'd say like six to 10 years. It's because now we've realized, and Will Smith
20:02is a YouTuber. The idea is now it's just another platform for one to express the most appropriate
20:10way to deliver a message, whether it be with online content or film or through a brand deal.
20:18I think everyone across the industry is seeing that they're accessing the same portals.
20:23What the thing I think is that I've learned that one must retain is that digital allows
20:29you those classic keywords that we throw out a lot, but then it really comes back to it,
20:33which is accessibility and authenticity. Those are things that like people really believe,
20:37you know, and that's the whole idea of like, you can't just walk up to Leonardo DiCaprio
20:39and hug him. But that's what it gives you is this feeling of true, of truth. And I mean,
20:47I decided to create a coming out video this year, which in style and in terms of production was in
20:54every way, quote unquote, traditional, utilizing my own filmmaking background. And I was actually
21:00very reticent because in my own mind, I had this prejudice of this idea of I can't put this online
21:05because I felt one gross about it or I had to like figure out what thumbnail did the best. It
21:10just
21:10felt strange to put that on that project. But then I realized like, what is this the point of this
21:15project, which is there's no definition of what a YouTuber really is. And we have to express
21:20ourselves in our most true authentic ways. And that was just my own way of doing that. I think that
21:26people could see and smell that. And looking back now, that was the best decision I could have made
21:31for that particular message I was trying to send. So I think that's just sort of where I think the
21:37conversation needs to go industry wide is, oh, you're on YouTube, you can't do this. It's more like, oh,
21:41you're on YouTube, should you do this particular idea here? And I think that's where I believe most of the
21:47deals are going to be starting to happen in the future. Yeah. Hannah, you are all exceedingly
22:01successful influencers. But I'm curious, I won't call it traditional media, but what entertainment
22:08experiences that you've had have been the most interesting for you? Uh, well, kind of tying to what
22:17Eugene was just speaking to. Um, in 2016, I had, uh, my first television show that I got to produce
22:24and star and blah, blah, blah. And it was on Food Network. And, you know, we had a great six
22:29episode
22:29run. It was amazing. And then, um, you know, we didn't do it again. Uh, and it was funny because
22:38the
22:38reaction to that was as soon as I was on Food Network, everyone was like, well, that's it. You did
22:44it.
22:44You're done. And I was like, huh? No, I'm pretty sure this is one project. Anyway, I'm still working
22:49on my podcast, my book, my this, my that, because that's what it means to live and work in Hollywood
22:54is that you always kind of have to have, there's never a moment where you have achieved a singular
23:02goal. Because as I'm sure everyone also shares, my goal is to have this be my career for my life.
23:08And I think that the people who have stories to tell and voices to share and art and support behind
23:16their words,
23:17those are the people I think that are going to last in this industry. I hope that we kind of
23:21go that direction
23:22as opposed to the, uh, like hyperbolic, like headline clickbait direction. I don't want YouTube to just like become
23:34one daily motion is basically what I'm trying to say, you know, I want it to stay like an incubation
23:38space
23:39for artists. But is it still the right space for that? I don't know. Maybe that's what everyone's kind of
23:44feeling,
23:44you know, because it's being influenced by advertisers dipping in and out in reaction to the content.
23:50How long can that really last? So I guess, um, my experiences in traditional entertainment to answer your question,
23:55uh, have only led me to reflect that you can't put your eggs in one basket ever. And that basket
24:01certainly
24:01can't belong to somebody else. You know?
24:08Um, Miles. Hey.
24:14Talk to me about the homophobia and transphobia. We gotta go there. What's going on?
24:21About all of it. All of it.
24:23Um, well, we were having an interesting conversation backstage, um, about the industry with like the acting world
24:30because, you know, I'll get job opportunities or like audition opportunities for like a queer character
24:35or like a trans character. And it's like, awesome. And I read the pitch line and it's like, awesome.
24:38And I'm like, you know, go through the script and it's like, not that awesome. And it's like, wait,
24:44it's misrepresentation, not as accurate, or sometimes the language that's used is harmful,
24:53but it's just the people that are creating it either don't know or trying to create something to, you know,
24:59in my mind, like put something out there positive for, you know, the queer youth and their audience.
25:05They're like, oh, people will love this. But it's, you know, if there's not queer people behind the camera
25:09as well as in front of the camera, it's not going to be as honest, as impactful as it needs
25:14to be.
25:15So, you know, it's very interesting because, you know, we all have internalized homophobia and transphobia
25:21that we see, you know, from the media or from what we don't see in the media.
25:25You know, it's not always someone saying something to you, but it's what you're saying to yourself
25:29or you're holding yourself back in a certain way because you're not seeing yourself represented accurately or at all.
25:37That's why I think, you know, YouTube is so important because it is raw, it is honest,
25:42it's these people coming out here and giving other humans the language to put to how they feel
25:46and the confidence and the silent okay of, you know, okay, you're doing that, you're being you,
25:51maybe I can be me as well, you know. So, I mean, I grew up watching like all these humans,
25:56you know,
25:56like religiously through my early teen years and garnering that language and arming myself with that community.
26:03And even though it wasn't people that I knew personally, it was people that I felt like I knew personally
26:09because I didn't have that in my hometown and my small bubble of like my home, my school, and my
26:14place I grew up in.
26:15So, yeah, it's very, very important that these stories are being told.
26:20But when they're told on YouTube, they're, you know, it's one person being the editor, being the writer,
26:24and, you know, being that producer and that voice. But once it starts translating into traditional media,
26:29I really feel like, at least for me, it's like not just, oh, I'm taking an acting role.
26:34It's like I feel a lot of, you know, I feel like I need to really dive into what I'm
26:41signing up for
26:42because I feel like I owe it to these kids that I'm meeting, that are watching me, that I'm going
26:46to choose projects that are positive and important.
26:50That is very wise and a good thing to do.
26:52That's really good. I think that like, I was, yeah.
26:57We were at this documentary called Changing the Game that was about transgender athletes in America.
27:02And there was a quote from Alex. It said, not about us without us.
27:11Nothing about us without us. And I think that that, that was the first time I'd ever heard that.
27:17And that really resonated with me. Because I hope that the generation to come is in the writers' rooms.
27:25And that the people who are helping fund, produce, make, that everybody a part of the filmmaking, television making, entertainment
27:33making process,
27:34can feel more secure in their own personal identity and they can move up in their own entertainment ladders.
27:40And I think that by staying online and by being like this gatekeeper free, in this gatekeeper free environment,
27:47who knows who you're encouraging? You could be encouraging the next Steven Spielberg, right? To be who they truly are.
27:53So yeah. Nothing about us without us. I agree.
27:57Yeah. I think there, I mean, I just, you know, back to the notion of digital versus traditional.
28:04I think there has to be, like we are all demanding there to be more of a fluidity and a
28:09genuine conversation between those two formats.
28:11Because of just this. I think that like traditional, vintage, older formats are looking towards our generation, younger generations, newer
28:19formats,
28:21and begging to understand them. They want to understand them and emulate them.
28:24And I think that what's funny to me is what you want to emulate is just authenticity.
28:29And it's just genuine representation, right? And so then that comes down to who and how are we employing in
28:36the making of these, quote, traditional formats.
28:39And can it start to be more of a fluid dialogue among these different formats?
28:45I mean, we have the cast of Pose later, and I think that is just one of the most beautiful
28:51examples of putting the people in the rooms to write the stories of their lives.
28:57It seems so obvious.
28:59And there is a demand for it. Like there is a real financial demand in return. Like there are audiences
29:04dying to watch these shows and consume them and advocate for them.
29:08I think there's a lot more coming out. Like it's so wild. It's this transition that's happening that the stories
29:15that I'm watching on TV and in movies just feel so much more real.
29:20And like they're real stories that I can relate to. So I'm excited. I feel like the change is happening
29:26right now.
29:27Congratulations.
29:28Oh, thanks.
29:29No, that's you.
29:30We're done.
29:31Congratulations.
29:32Well, I also feel like as an actor who is also an influencer, it's incredibly interesting when I get hired
29:39for jobs where people don't know I have a digital presence.
29:42And I speak up about a problematic storyline, or I'm like, hey, this character, this moment is very misogynistic and
29:48I don't think it's helpful to the story.
29:50And honestly, I don't feel like it's a responsible message to communicate to my audience. They're always like, what are
29:54you talking about?
29:55Like, this is the story we're trying to make. And you do have this weird thing, like building on what
30:00you said off of is like, I don't want to, I represent something to the people that I talk to.
30:04I represent suicide prevention. I represent mental health advocacy. I cannot let those values down, even though I am an
30:10actor, which means I'm a cog in somebody else's story.
30:13You still feel this immense responsibility about maintaining your values in whatever it is you take part of.
30:20And I've had to bow out of projects because they're either incredibly racist or they're like, well, just like go
30:26out of frame and like we'll imply that you gave this guy a blow job for no reason.
30:29And it's, it's, it's mind boggling. You're like, I can't, I can't in good conscious do this or sign on
30:35to this.
30:35And so I do think the great part about our celebrity and as traditional and what we do becomes more
30:41blurred is we are able to take a stand.
30:43And when we do have a certain amount of marketing power, we're taken a little bit more seriously than if
30:49we were just a hired gun.
30:52Yeah.
30:53Yeah.
30:54I think I want to choose to believe in the optimism of, of art, which is that we are going
31:00to follow the unique voices and uplift those stories that we want to hear as a generation that is, is
31:09more diverse and more open.
31:11However, I do, one thing that always catches me is that with, with a, with any action is a strong
31:17reaction.
31:18And we see that so prevalent in the digital space, mostly Twitter.
31:23And you see that there is a, going back to homophobia and transphobia, we have to remember always that there,
31:30the reason we exist is because there is a need for it.
31:32And, you know, you can create a film and you can just walk out of the press room whenever you
31:36want.
31:36But when something happens in this country, when someone like Tucker Carlson or whatever fucking spews bullshit up his mouth,
31:44we are choosing to engage openly, not only with our content, but also with our, our being.
31:51And I think that's the kind of beauty that digital provides and that I don't think any of us want
31:56to lose, even if we end up winning an Oscar or having a Food Network show.
32:01Like this is something that's really important to especially our generation, which is we're not going to let that bullshit
32:06slide, you know, because kids need to hear that because other kids are being raised in households that are hearing
32:12the exact opposite.
32:13And so, yeah, I think that it's a, it's, it's going to be a very eye opening, intense next 50
32:22years in the industry, particularly with, I think these rising voices.
32:24But I think the whole point is that it's still a fight. It's still an uphill battle. And I think
32:29that everything is there for a reason.
32:31And we are here representing people who just never had that voice until someone could get on a keyboard.
32:38And I think that's unfortunately what like the youngest generation might not see is that they see us on this
32:43panel up here in cute clothes and they think, oh, yeah, they're done.
32:48They're good. You know, Beyonce's number one. So I mean, you know, racism doesn't exist. Like these are conversations that
32:53happen because they haven't seen it.
32:55So we have to be out here not only representing, but educating. And that's been a huge, huge, like realization
33:02for me, particularly someone who, when I first entered online, I was like, I don't want them to know anything
33:05about me.
33:06I don't want to even be on Twitter. I don't want to say anything. I want to be this distant,
33:09mysterious void.
33:10And I realized that's just not the times we live in now. And we need to enact the power and
33:16the tools that we have our disposal, which is these digital platforms.
33:22What's there? What scares me about that is that as what you were talking as to what you were talking
33:29about earlier about AdSense and revenue not being enough to pay for it.
33:34Like right now, I'm rebuilding, not rebuilding, but maintaining my channel in a way that I haven't been able to
33:39dedicate my time and attention to because I was working on my third book available for preorder now, mydrunkkitchenholidays.com.
33:46Thank you. But I've now I've got some time and I'm like, OK, so what do I want to make?
33:51What is heart dough in 2019 that I'm putting a lot of just income into that and putting my investment
33:57into that?
33:57I haven't made money off the channel in a minute. And so what scares me is that the only way
34:04to sustain yourself as a the only way to sustain yourself online is through brand participation.
34:10And so it still puts the power in the hands of the brands. So every time you support an artist
34:19or every time you hear the click, like, subscribe, all that stuff, the mentality you should have is I'll do
34:26it.
34:26So maybe they don't have to be so reliant on brands and so reliant on navigating the advertising world.
34:32The more I support them as an individual by doing this one simple gesture, I'm giving them my vote.
34:39I'm saying, yes, I believe in this. I like this. I want to see more of this.
34:44And it's hard. I mean, I've got a timeline for how long I'm going to just kind of throw money
34:49into this and we'll see what happens.
34:51But, yeah, you really are beholden to the deals that you get.
34:57I mean, what have your brand experiences been? We actually spoke about, I think, was it Lay's?
35:03Oh, phenomenally positive. I love brands. No, it was great. No, it was great.
35:08No, really. I've, you know, with that same kind of, like, sense of self-value and sense of having your
35:13values.
35:14One of the things that I've, in my work with UTA and with my management, we've always said, like, okay,
35:20is this aligned with Harto?
35:21Is this aligned with our goals? Is this aligned with our values? And we've passed on opportunities that weren't.
35:26But fortunately, I've had a lot of great brands that I've worked with and a lot of great partnerships that
35:30have enabled me to
35:31either produce content together where I have a little series that's distinctly for the brand, Subaru, Barilla,
35:37or do something where I was just straight up, like, endorsing these Lay's potato chips, Taste of America guys, in
35:452018.
35:48And it sold out of their stock.
35:51They were like, these chips are gone now.
35:53And I was like, cool, can you tell every other advertiser you know?
35:57You know?
35:58That's really what matters is people investing in their, if you have any leftover budget,
36:03go find a creator you want to support.
36:05You know?
36:06Like, they need it real bad and they will work real hard for it.
36:09You know?
36:11Yeah.
36:12Yeah, it was very interesting to see brands around World Pride this year.
36:16Just see the support.
36:18And, yeah, it was a fascinating experience as someone who's been to a lot of Prides.
36:22But they need to be around all year.
36:24That's kind of the point.
36:26And, you know, I...
36:27All over America, not just target market.
36:29Yeah.
36:29And I imagine...
36:31Sorry.
36:31I imagine now that as someone who is usually widely known to be part of a comedy cast with
36:36three cisgender straight white guys who are universally appealing, we get deals.
36:41You know?
36:42Like, they're just, like, funny dudes.
36:44They're like, you see them on Comedy Central, you see them on my channel.
36:46Like, they're great, by the way.
36:47They're amazing.
36:47But those deals we locked down are part of, like, entertainment.
36:50We craft, like, brand deals.
36:52It's very easy.
36:52But if it was just me, I always assume if it was just me, a queer person of color who's
36:56in YouTube, already I have some advantages being cis.
36:59I'm, like, dressed like a fucking tennis coach right now, right?
37:02Like, you know, I'm trying to explore...
37:04It was hot today, guys.
37:07My shirt is see-through, man.
37:08It's hot.
37:08I'm trying to learn how to do makeup.
37:10I'm trying.
37:11But, you know, it'd be so much more limiting because it's just like, what am I going
37:15to do?
37:15Wait until every June rolls around so someone's going to pay attention to me?
37:18They're going to be like, oh, we need a drag queen to pump up this vodka.
37:21Or we need someone who's in the trans community to represent, I don't know, like, a shoe.
37:26Because that would be cool.
37:28So it's really, unfortunately, also up to the brands to realize that we also just need
37:34to have that visibility all year round.
37:36Because pride is not limited, and people's queerness is not limited to, like, a finite
37:40time every year.
37:41And what I'm worrying now is that the more enthusiastic they get, the more it gets concentrated
37:45in that one 31 days.
37:48And that I think is something that I think is what is the frustration we have had online
37:54about this whole idea of changing a rainbow flag back and forth.
37:57And I think, I don't know, but we have the power in that, I think.
38:00I think we have the power to encourage them to consider that there's value in these voices,
38:06regardless of it's pride or Christmas time.
38:08Hey, Queer Christmas.
38:10Get on it.
38:18Oh, they're plotting something.
38:22So, I want to talk about how you are so visible on your channels, in your spheres of influence.
38:32And I want to talk about the safety.
38:34Do these platforms need to do more to better protect queer and marginalized people?
38:43I won't force anyone to begin.
38:47Probably, yeah.
38:48Yeah.
38:49I would say yes.
38:49I mean, I think to accept that it's a real problem and to accept that it is targeted.
38:57It might not be targeted intentionally.
39:00Someone might have not physically typed in, hate gay content, enter.
39:06And then the algorithm went off and took it.
39:08But it definitely has been shifting and influenced by the amount of content that's put out online.
39:13And I think that if the solution had been, oh, no, well, we started tagging and flagging this stuff
39:20to fight back against hate speech.
39:22And it's like, well, the result is you're actually demonetizing sexual education and health channels
39:26and people, anybody that has any of these words in it, even if they're positive.
39:32And then it's silence.
39:34Yeah.
39:35So, I think that the first step is admitting that there is a problem and the solution is unknown.
39:43Yeah, just making sure the algorithms aren't inherently homophobic or transphobic.
39:48Because even outside of the YouTube space, like on Instagram, there's a big thing right
39:50now where a lot of transmasculine people, their pictures are being censored and taken down.
39:57I know a lot of guys post-top surgery that cannot post pictures of themselves because
40:01it will be taken down.
40:02They will get strikes against their Instagram.
40:04Even pictures where they're wearing shirts, like it's very strange because what we're coming
40:09to the conclusion of is there's a lot of people who are transphobic and they're reporting
40:13pictures because they're like, I don't like this trans person who's just out here being
40:16a trans person.
40:17So, a lot of their pictures are being taken down.
40:19Like, I was on Tinder, like two years ago.
40:24And I log on one day and it says like, error code, like A303.
40:28And it was like, your Tinder is like gone.
40:30Like, you can't use Tinder anymore.
40:31You've been like taken off.
40:32And I was like, what?
40:33Okay.
40:35So, I Googled it.
40:35I was so overwhelmed.
40:36Yeah.
40:37Yeah.
40:37I was like, I didn't know it was that hot.
40:38Guys, cool.
40:39I was like, they just like, you gotta get this guy out of here.
40:42But no, I Googled it and I found all these forms of trans people being like, this popped
40:47up for me.
40:47Like, what do I do?
40:48This popped up for me.
40:48What do I do?
40:49And the conclusion from the community was like, oh, do you have that you're trans in
40:53your bio?
40:54And my answer was yes.
40:55And it was like, oh, well, people are gonna flag that.
40:57And then if you get so many, you're reported, you're gonna be taken down.
41:00And it's like, no one looks into that.
41:01No one sees what's really?
41:03Okay.
41:04I'll try to find love elsewhere.
41:06I did.
41:06It was great.
41:07I'm in a relationship.
41:08It's a happy story.
41:09But yeah.
41:09No, but it's a lot.
41:10So making sure these platforms aren't, you know, unintentionally homophobic and transphobic.
41:16And then we can talk about, you know, comments and hate speech.
41:20But it's like if the platform as a base level isn't helping the creators, it's like, what
41:25are we doing?
41:26Also, white nationalists radicalize online.
41:28Like, we know now they go down the YouTube hole of this hateful content.
41:32They radicalize and they almost always take action of some form.
41:35And I know that companies don't want to necessarily be responsible for that.
41:39But I think you have to.
41:40We have a mass shooting every fucking day.
41:43Like, at a certain point you have to realize, is it worth human lives to allow this kind
41:48of content to exist on our platform?
41:50Yeah.
41:51Yeah.
41:53Exactly.
41:54It's interesting because, you know, the leaders of these companies, whether it be digital or
42:00anything, what bothers me is this diplomacy that they're employing with the language around
42:05it.
42:05We know that they're doing their best to try to, like, fix things.
42:07And we know that the top people at YouTube are not trying to hurt people.
42:10But the fact that people are getting hurt because of the general centering on the majority, because
42:16of that, then the algorithm then hurts the queer community.
42:19That in itself is a signal that the minorities are still minorities and that we are still being
42:27essentially relegated to, you know, be the ones who received the brunt of not only problems
42:34from the official side, but problems from the hate side.
42:36Those are the people who get hurt in the end, particularly with the Carlos Fox Rider recent
42:42discussion that opened up this huge dialogue.
42:44But in the end, you have to ask who's the person who's getting actually physically endangered.
42:49And that's what it really comes down to.
42:51And then I've thought about it for a while and I know that, yeah, you are trying everything
42:54you're doing, but we have so many massive companies these days.
42:56We see scandals every day.
42:57Then we find out someone's being funded by someone very conservative that are controlling
43:02every aspect of our lives, even if we don't, we're, I don't know, riding on a fucking bike
43:06in an exercise class.
43:08You don't know, oh shit, this goes to someone who's fucking funding Trump.
43:12Like this is everywhere.
43:13And at the very least, when you are a company, especially digitally, that champions diverse voices,
43:20maybe it's about time with your power and you all come from the fucking Bay Area to actually take a
43:26stand.
43:27We might need to fight a little bit of that fire with our own fire.
43:30And I know that we want to kumbaya and shit and be like, let's be diplomatic.
43:34Cause you know, I do believe in equal rights for voices, but we are also at a time where
43:38I think that we have to be hyper aware that the endangerment of, of other communities is not erased.
43:45And I think that it erases it by saying that everyone should be okay to talk about what they talk
43:50about online.
43:50And I think that's a, that's a logical fallacy that at the very least own up to the fact that
43:56people are getting hurt.
43:57Yeah.
43:57Like own up to that shit.
43:59It's exactly, it's what systemic oppression is.
44:04And we can, you know, people are like, oh, the algorithm is skewed this way.
44:07Yeah.
44:07We started flagging stuff cause I hate the algorithm is skewed this way.
44:10Cause there's more people doing this than that.
44:12And you're saying, so you expect independent queer children, creators, et cetera, to so oversaturate
44:20this space where by the way, they are unsafe and not welcome.
44:24And so it's on them to just upload as much happy, positive queer shit as they can find.
44:29And then the algorithm will skew.
44:31And it's like, no, it, they're not uploading.
44:35They don't feel safe because they are not safe.
44:36That's how systemic oppression works.
44:39If the statistics are being controlled, the statistics are skewed.
44:42Because the other people who are now oversaturating the space are not in danger.
44:47If I was a queer kid growing up today, I don't know if I would post to YouTube.
44:50I really don't.
44:51I don't know if I would want that.
44:52Every time I get a video on the main page trending, I turn off comments on my phone.
44:57Because I don't like hearing dyke all the time.
45:00So, can we talk about it?
45:03Take a deep breath.
45:10Oh, a minute left.
45:12Tell me what you need to tell us.
45:16You've, you've got to.
45:16Escape the night?
45:17Make it, make it.
45:20Switching topics.
45:23Oh, gosh.
45:2330 seconds what do we need to know what we didn't know about you're doing what
45:27organizations do we know need to know about you have a viewership right now
45:32that might not be watching you on your channels you might be more industry
45:36leaning right now what do you need to say I mean high traditional I'd love to
45:40make a movie I'm I'm just a storyteller at heart so I just love to tell stories
45:48and um I yeah I'm I'm kind of switching into a more like immersive experience
45:54for my escape the night show I created an escape room that I'm super excited
45:59about it's going to be all this month of August that people can come and
46:03experience what it's like to be in my show which is really cool so that's my
46:08next project but I'd love to make my books into a movie so there's that yeah
46:15they need to be made into a movie oh I didn't know it was a real escape room
46:18by the way yes major um I don't know I just want to say thank you for having
46:23us um this is fab and I'm gg gorgeous
46:31oh you just whatever you know use your voice
46:37I just want to say I appreciate the tone that this panel took
46:40I think it um we do these a lot quite often and I think it's important to
46:47especially in today talk about the power that digital has
46:52and where we can enact not only our influential power but our collective
46:57power as a community and I am guilty of being someone who's always said I'm going
47:02to be the the plan to diplomacy and try to bring
47:06everyone together by not quite ruffling feathers or being incendiary and I just
47:13think we're at a point where the people who need to hear it need to hear it hard
47:18and the people who are fighting against it are too far gone to understand basic
47:23human logic so for me it's just a vow that I hope all the panels I go on about
47:28digital are like this and that every piece of content I make or tweet I say or
47:33film I produce is not going to back down because this is a fight that's going to
47:38continue and I don't know why I'm so riled up right now
47:40maybe it's because these pants are so tight they're so short
47:43I've never shown this much I have such hairy legs I don't know if y'all knew
47:46um but yeah take this fucking far right America
47:52take all this leg
47:55sorry I'm so mad right now okay calm down
47:58I would I would agree I think we all share a similar rage and and fear right
48:04now things feel scary I also appreciate everybody's sort of awareness around the
48:11intersection of these different industries and how widespread all of our
48:16various responsibilities are you know from where I sit on this panel working for a
48:23company as large as Verizon Media I feel very cognizant of that responsibility
48:26and you know I'm appreciative to work at a company that does value um initiatives
48:33like this right and that is committed year-round but I think that that's
48:37something that needs you know the responsibility and the burden shouldn't
48:40just be on creators of course it should be on every individual and every
48:45company and politician at every level and I am
48:48so grateful for Gen Z and hopeful about Gen Z and terrified of the older
48:54generations and just ready for things to get moving um sorry if it's morbid
49:02I would say that ruffling feathers is not something to be afraid of
49:17I remember a day when no one from this traditional side of the world would give us the time of
49:23day
49:23and where we were really looked down upon is just the kids in your bedrooms making
49:27shit and I remember craving the validation and the credibility of all of you guys so much to take me
49:36seriously and some people did I remember HuffPo picked up one of my videos and finally finally I
49:41felt like okay I'm accepted now like what you guys say matters so much like I love consuming
49:48traditional journalism I love consuming magazines I love looking to you to know who should I be looking
49:53out for what voices should I be supporting what artists are out there that stand for something
49:58new and unique and fresh and so I look forward to seeing the kind of things that you bring to
50:03the
50:03public's attention hi um yeah I don't know if there's anything I can say it's that you know I'm queer
50:11and I'm transgender but I also possess a lot of privilege I'm white and I'm male passing and I've had
50:17uh I've been given a lot of great opportunities in both the digital and the traditional space uh the
50:24thing I could say it'd be just you know don't just give opportunities to people that look like me
50:30that's it
50:36thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything you do and thank you Alexis
50:41this was great thank you for letting us talk
50:47thank you
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