- 6 ore fa
Eurodeputati si scontrano a The Ring sulle risposte alla cupola di calore in Europa
Un’ondata di calore da record sta investendo l’Europa: i politici hanno fallito nel proteggere i cittadini? L’aria condizionata è la soluzione? Benedetta Scuderi (Verdi) e Andrea Wechsler (PPE) discutono le conseguenze politiche di una politica climatica (fallita?).
ALTRE INFORMAZIONI : http://it.euronews.com/2026/07/02/eurodeputati-si-scontrano-a-the-ring-sulle-risposte-alla-cupola-di-calore-in-europa
Abbonati, euronews è disponibile in 12 lingue.
Un’ondata di calore da record sta investendo l’Europa: i politici hanno fallito nel proteggere i cittadini? L’aria condizionata è la soluzione? Benedetta Scuderi (Verdi) e Andrea Wechsler (PPE) discutono le conseguenze politiche di una politica climatica (fallita?).
ALTRE INFORMAZIONI : http://it.euronews.com/2026/07/02/eurodeputati-si-scontrano-a-the-ring-sulle-risposte-alla-cupola-di-calore-in-europa
Abbonati, euronews è disponibile in 12 lingue.
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00:08Hello and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show broadcasting from the European
00:14Parliament here in Brussels. I'm Stefan Grober. On The Ring, members of the European Parliament
00:19go face-to-face on some of the biggest issues facing the EU. Today we want to talk about
00:25the heatwave that is baking Europe and that raises some fundamental questions about the
00:30way we're dealing with climate change. Luis Albertos has more.
00:40Europe is the fastest warming continent on Earth, heating up at roughly twice the global
00:45average rate. As temperatures continue to rise, a critical question emerges. Is Europe prepared
00:50for a hotter future? The challenge goes far beyond climate policy. Cities are struggling
00:57to deal with extreme heat, energy systems are facing growing pressure and governments are
01:03being forced to find new ways of protecting societies most vulnerable. The debate is also
01:09increasingly ideological. Broader questions are being raised about consumption, health
01:14and sustainability. Should we forget climate change for a moment and just stay in our
01:20own air-conditioned homes, if we have one? Or is it time for drastic action to be taken
01:26to mitigate the worst effects of climate change? Difficult choices lie ahead.
01:33Well, a lot to unpack for our debaters, and here they are.
01:39Benedetta Scuderi, an Italian MEP from the Greens. She's a member of the committees on
01:44industry, research and energy, and women's rights and gender equality. Regarding the climate
01:49crisis, she says, in Europe we are witnessing a climate collapse and its most dramatic effects,
01:55such as uninhabitable homes, power cuts and blocked transport systems, but the right continues
02:00to deny climate change and to slow down the transition. This is not pragmatism, but a choice
02:05that is destroying us. Andrea Wechsler, a German MEP from the Central
02:11Right European People's Party. She's a member of the committees on the environment, climate
02:15and food safety, and on industry, research and energy. She says, targets and goals alone
02:21will not protect people, infrastructure or nature. The real question is how we deliver.
02:27We can lose ourselves in ideology, conditionalities and regulatory micromanagement, or we can move
02:33from debate to delivery, technology open, market open, and innovation open.
02:39So, let me welcome to the Ring Benedetta Scuderi and Andrea Wechsler. Good to see you, both of you,
02:46and great to have you here. Now, the aim of the Ring is to offer our viewers a glimpse at
02:51European
02:52Parliament debates, so you should feel right at home. Are you ready?
02:56Yes.
02:57All right. Let's start. Europe is once again facing record-breaking temperatures, wildfires and droughts.
03:05Is Europe ready for this? Is it prepared, or is this simply the new normal? Andrea, I'm going to start
03:12with you.
03:12Well, first of all, let me say that we have had 150 million people affected by the heat wave over
03:17the last couple of weeks,
03:18and we lost 1,300 people. And I think this loss shows us we are not yet prepared. We are
03:25doing everything now
03:26which is in our hands to find these issues at a European level, but no, we are not at where
03:32we need to be
03:32to protect people in Europe.
03:34Why are we not prepared? This is not the first time we had a heat wave. We had, you know,
03:39extreme weather in the summer.
03:40It's not just the summer, because we have extreme weather in the summer. We have extreme weather in the autumn.
03:45I want to remember Valencia. I want to remember the flooding also in Italy. We have extreme weather also in
03:50the winter.
03:51This is a pattern. It's a climate pattern. And we're not prepared because there's a lot of people in this
03:56Parliament
03:57and in many institutions that still think that climate change is not an issue. And if we do not respond
04:03to this extreme condition in a systemic way, we will never be prepared.
04:07If we think that is one or the other emergency now is the heat and then is the flooding and
04:12then is the extreme conditions,
04:15we will not be prepared if we don't put money, we don't give systemic solution, and we don't understand that
04:20the issue is the climate collapse.
04:22If we still keep listening to who is saying that this is not a problem and that we have time,
04:28then we will never be prepared and the conditions are going to be worse and worse.
04:31Who is to blame for this? If every year, every summer, we're kind of taken off guard by the heat,
04:36by the heat wave, with the consequences that you've described, who is to blame for this?
04:42Well, scientific evidence is clear. We do have climate change and it's induced by human behaviour.
04:47It's CO2 emissions that is partially responsible for the climate change that we have.
04:51And we now have pulled the right policy levers on a European level to tackle the clear signals that we
04:58have how we need to address climate change.
05:00So there is not this one person to blame. But what we're doing now is take responsibility in the face
05:06of scientific evidence to tackle climate change in Europe and to lead to decarbonisation.
05:12Well, it's maybe not one person, but is there one institution? Are there national governments? Is there a commission? All
05:18of them?
05:18We cannot blame one institution. It's a systemic problem. We can blame the multinational that like 57 of them are
05:27like the most polluted, the biggest polluted and we are doing nothing about it.
05:31We can blame our governments because they're still not adapting as fast. We can blame the European Parliament also when
05:37they decide to do step backwards on the climate, on climate laws, on climate regulation, climate related regulation.
05:45I want to remember the deforestation, for example, the deforestation law that we had a lot of steps back.
05:50And this is one of the first steps that we need to actually take to respond to the climate crisis.
05:55Is the parliament also to blame and not just the parliament, the parliament, the consul and the commission when they
06:00want to de-finance climate adaptation in the new MFF proposals,
06:04there is basically no money for climate adaptation and we see the situation we are now.
06:09And we also need to blame internationally people like Trump that decided to not even go to COP and to
06:16get out of the climate negotiations.
06:20This is extremely dangerous.
06:21So weakening climate policy? Many people believe that your party is sort of part of the problem, not part of
06:27the solution when it comes to climate policy.
06:29How do you respond?
06:29No, we're clearly a part of the solution. We're not part of the problem. We clearly recognize that there is
06:34a climate issue and we are tackling the climate issue.
06:36But what we are not doing is rolling back on climate legislation. On the contrary, what we are doing is
06:41to accelerate the implementation of the climate legislation that we've taken and that we've put into place in the European
06:48Union, which is the most ambitious continent.
06:50And this has been done under Ursula von der Leyen. The Green Deal is EPP policy.
06:56And we are now trying to combine the clean industrial deal with the Green Deal, which means, like, make it
07:02work now, but with technology openness and not with bureaucracy.
07:05If you take the deforestation legislation, that is that is not leading us to the effect that it's meant to
07:11have with a bureaucracy that comes with us.
07:13And this is what we're doing. This is not deregulation.
07:15Do you agree?
07:16Absolutely not. I am sorry. But the EPP is a big part of the problem.
07:23The EPP in this mandate is deciding deliberately to to side with the far right on many legislation.
07:30And one of the two main topics is climate and environment.
07:33Deforestation is not bureaucracy like fighting deforestation globally.
07:37That's that was the intent of the regulation is the main aim that we have is the main mean that
07:43we have to actually fight and stop the climate change.
07:47I mean, if we keep thinking that we're not giving answer and aligning with the far right and destroying the
07:55Green Deal, because there's many pieces of the Green Deal that have been destroyed by the EPP in this moment,
07:59without giving a direction to Europe, this is making us more vulnerable.
08:03Okay. How do you think about air conditioning?
08:06I think at some point it becomes necessary, but we also need to make our housing and buildings more efficient.
08:17And this is another thing that I will really have the EPP on board to not destroy the building efficiency
08:23directive, for example.
08:25I think also that this is a social justice issue, because air conditioning is only available for the richest part
08:31of the population.
08:32It's not available for the part of the population that is more vulnerable.
08:35And we need to provide to everyone the possibility of refreshment.
08:40Andrea, what is your position on air conditioning?
08:42Well, first of all, let me be very clear.
08:43We're neither destroying the Green Deal.
08:45We've made a clear commitment for the 2040 climate targets, nor are we destroying climate legislation.
08:50On the contrary, we're trying to make it work by accelerating the implementation of the climate legislation and by being
08:56clearly committed to the climate goals of the European Union.
08:59What about air conditioning?
09:01A big debate right now in Europe.
09:02Well, it's clearly to me one very important part in terms of an electrification strategy.
09:08We need a cooling strategy for people.
09:11We've had people, the elderly, the vulnerable, the children in schools that were impossible to survive or even to have
09:16schooling.
09:17Yes, air conditioning is one of the pillars and the solutions for the people.
09:21It's electrified.
09:23This is the way the European Union is going forward.
09:25It will be one part of climate adaptation.
09:27But this will not be enough.
09:28And that is why we're working on the implementation of the climate targets.
09:30But Benedetta mentioned the sort of social inequality when it comes to access to that technology.
09:37Do you think she has a point?
09:38Well, there clearly is one.
09:39And that's why it's so important that the Commission now comes up with a cooling strategy where we clearly need
09:43a targeted strategy that we protect the vulnerable first.
09:47And that is the elderly.
09:48That is hospitals.
09:49That is schools.
09:50And then it goes to private homes.
09:52And yes, this is our task to make climate protection for the vulnerable.
09:56How can we implement such an idea?
09:58I mean, the schools, hospitals, et cetera.
10:01Many hospitals and schools have air conditioning, hospitals certainly more than schools.
10:06Not in all countries.
10:06Not in all member states.
10:07Yeah.
10:07The point is, and again I would like to take on board the EPP on this, we need funding.
10:12And this Commission is not putting funding on this.
10:15We've been asking since the start of the mandate some funding for building renovation.
10:20We have a building renovation directive which we really want to keep.
10:23But that is again a social justice issue because if we don't have the funding, only the people that can
10:28afford the renovation will have efficient housing.
10:32And instead we want especially the people that cannot afford the renovation, the public administration, the schools, especially in countries
10:38and regions that are in more danger to be able to afford renovation.
10:43And this Commission is not putting money on it.
10:45The Parliament is also not agreeing on this because we, for example, in the European Competitiveness Fund are asking for
10:51a part of the money to go into building renovation.
10:54We've been asking it in the MFF.
10:56We are asking it in all the places.
10:59If you don't put the money, you can do all the cooling strategy you want.
11:02You're not going to have that.
11:03Should it be a European thing here or should it be left to the national governments because they're closer to
11:07the situation?
11:09Well, first of all, European money is endless.
11:12And we need to be very clear about why we put the money for the next couple of years.
11:16And yes, it would be a great wish list to have air conditioning for schools on the MFF wish list.
11:21But this will not realistically work because we will not be able to fund European air conditioning in the breath
11:28as we need it.
11:28So our avenue in the EPP is clearly to fund innovative technologies to make the technology cheaper and to work
11:36on the lowering of energy prices in order to make the operation cheaper.
11:41So energy prices down, technology cheaper, and this is going to make it more accessible.
11:46And just on a side note, in Germany, air conditioning is considered to be a heat pump.
11:50And so you can actually get subsidies by the German state.
11:54So I think given the limitations of the budget on European level, we should not put it into subsidies for
11:59air conditioning,
12:00but into innovative technologies on the one hand side and lowering energy prices on the other hand side.
12:05Let me just step in here as we're just getting warmed up.
12:09That is no pun intended.
12:10We are ready for the next round.
12:16Now it's time for you to challenge each other directly, just as you do in the hemicycle behind us.
12:23So Benedetta, this round starts with you.
12:25Yes.
12:26So my colleague has talked about the difficulties that many workers on the workplace have experienced in this heat wave.
12:34So I want to ask you if you will be available to support a cultural directive for the European Commission
12:41to protect workers,
12:43especially the most vulnerable ones, from heat waves.
12:46That means more breaks.
12:48That means understanding which are the temperature.
12:51That means changing the shift.
12:53We need a legally binding directive and we need the EPP on board because we can say we want to
12:58protect European people.
12:59That's a long question.
13:01First of all, let me be very clear.
13:03We need to protect workers and we need to use the flexibilities and the law to protect them in place.
13:08There is already a big body of law of other protections workers in place.
13:12So before we call for a new directive, our EPP approach clearly is let's make an impact assessment of what
13:17directives do we have?
13:18What national legislation do we have?
13:20And how does it fit together?
13:22Because what we do not want to have is yet a call for a new directive in elements which are
13:26already largely regulated on a European level
13:30and allow the member states for flexibilities.
13:32We have northern states where you have more protection for cold weather probably and then heat waves where we have
13:38other member states.
13:40So let's keep the flexibility.
13:42Clearly commitment to protect workers.
13:44But let's not do another directive without having evaluated what the current legislation already does.
13:49All right. Now your question to Benedetta.
13:51Well, let me talk about technology openness, Madame Escuderi.
13:54If we want to really convincingly decarbonize, we need to be open not only for electrons and clearly electrification will
14:03be the main pathway for decarbonizing, but also for molecules.
14:07And what I see the Greens going for is that they do not treat all technologies that we need for
14:12decarbonization equally.
14:14Take CCOs, take low carbon hydrogen, take synthetic fuels.
14:17This is something we don't get your party on board.
14:20How will you approach renewable energies that comes from molecules?
14:25So first we need to understand what is the renewable and what is not renewable.
14:28Then we need to understand what is sustainable and what is not sustainable.
14:31that mostly I think this is a way from a certain part of this parliament, and not just this parliament,
14:38but politics, to hide the fact that we want to keep fossil fuel in.
14:43Because CCT, it's a good technology, but only if we use it in a very, very hardly decarbonizing sectors.
14:51Instead, the People Party wants to use it in things like electricity production.
14:57And we have renewable energies for that. We don't need CCT.
15:00And this has been actually approved by the parliament in the project of common interest.
15:04And for us, it's absolutely impossible to sustain something like that because it's economically absolutely non-efficient, cost-efficient.
15:12And it's also dangerous for the environment.
15:14Low carbon hydrogen is a very costly technology.
15:19And we saw it because we had a hydrogen program and that was not flying because it's just not economically
15:25efficient.
15:26And instead other technologies could be. And also low carbon hydrogen is made with gas.
15:31If you intend blue hydrogen, which absolutely doesn't make sense because gas is very costly.
15:38Hydrogen is very costly. And it's still keeping the fossil fuel in.
15:42So what will happen is that we will not have low carbon hydrogen.
15:45We will have gas inside the energy mix.
15:48And this is a strategy of the fossil lobby to have fossil fuel in the energy mix forever.
15:53We actually want to get out of that.
15:55So if we have technologies that are doing this, are cost-efficient and are scalable, the greens are all open.
16:00All right. We've heard the views from our guests.
16:03Now it's time to bring in a new voice.
16:09I would like to bring in Simon Steele, the executive secretary of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.
16:16In a statement released last week, he said this.
16:20Until humanity stops burning colossal amounts of coal, oil and gas, extreme heat will keep getting worse.
16:28And other climate impacts from mega droughts, floods, wildfires and storms will keep hammering every economy and population harder each
16:38year.
16:39He certainly has a point here.
16:41But how realistic is it that we get off fossil fuel immediately in the European Union?
16:48First of all, he's right. Burning fossil fuels cannot be the way to the future because we know the impacts
16:54and we felt it in the heat wave.
16:56The question is how fast can we work on the transformation and what decarbonization levers do we have?
17:01So first of all, the strategy in the European Union is clear.
17:04Let's get independent from fossil fuels imports.
17:07Let's try to electrify in order to get the fossils out of our system, which is also a major issue
17:13in terms of resilience.
17:14And then there will be hard to abate sectors where we have to work on alternatives.
17:18We talked about hydrogen, which will be one of the important pathways to go forward.
17:22But there will be some sectors where we need fossil fuels also as a base sort of material in the
17:28chemicals industry.
17:29And we have to be open to use it, at least in those processes where we cannot substitute it.
17:34But clearly, the majority of the policies targeted are towards defossilization.
17:40Benedetta, even if Europe acted tonight, right, or tomorrow, we cannot save the world alone, the planet alone.
17:49Now, a global climate policy is under pressure, if not under attack.
17:54You mentioned Trump earlier.
17:55How can we get the international community sort of back on track towards a, you know, a common climate policy?
18:04Well, first of all, we need to keep our own goals and to not water them down.
18:08And again, like the climate law, we're very happy that we have a climate law that is setting a target
18:13for 2040.
18:14But again, because of the EPP lining with the far right, we couldn't have a very clear target and we
18:21have it watered down.
18:22How can we expect to convince the rest of the world to have good targets, good policies, if we are
18:28the first that are doing that backwards?
18:30Second, we need to be clear on what we are financing.
18:33And again, I mean, I understand that we say that we want to phase out fossil fuel.
18:38But then if in the negotiation, if in the files, we don't say that no European money are going into
18:45technologies that are financing fossils and that all the MFF is actually going to phase out fossil fuel as an
18:52aim.
18:52Of course, it's not happening in the next seven years, but that needs to be the aim of also the
18:56MFF.
18:56I want to ask.
18:57Then we are not going into the right direction.
18:59OK, Andrea, the EPP has been mentioned again.
19:03No, I mean, we are not watering.
19:04Is that cooperation with the far right coming to haunt you?
19:07No, it's absolutely.
19:07No, we are clearly standing by the climate goals.
19:11We fixed 2040.
19:12And yes, we have an offset to 85 percent because this is also reaching out into other countries and to
19:18allow for quick wins.
19:19We can do it perfectly here in the European Union with 90 percent in Europe.
19:24And this will be very hard to achieve.
19:25And it's better to have the 90 percent with an offset in other countries.
19:28Article six in the in the Paris agreement, which allows for it.
19:32It's foreseen in the international community.
19:34I think this is a very pragmatic way forward with still reaching the 90 percent, but giving flexibilities to achieve
19:41it.
19:41OK, are you happy with this answer?
19:43Absolutely not.
19:44We can do both and we should do.
19:47All right.
19:47Let's take a break here on the ring.
19:49We'll be back with more after this.
19:51Stay with us.
20:01Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
20:04I'm Stefan Grobe and I'm joined by Benedetta Scuderi from the Greens from Italy and Andrea Wechsler from the European
20:10People's Party from Germany.
20:12Today, our topic is the sweltering heat that Europeans are suffering from right now.
20:17One aspect is the heat in our big cities.
20:20European cities can be up 10 degrees hotter at night than surrounding rural areas during heatwaves.
20:27In Paris, for instance, nights are typically four degrees warmer than nearby countrysides.
20:32in Madrid and Rome heatwaves show 10 to 15 degrees surface temperature gaps between city and rural areas.
20:40Even Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin now see more tropical nights and stronger nighttime heat.
20:47should cities be legally required to provide more green spaces?
20:53I think the problem with Europe that has been the last mandate is that we had a lot of legal
20:57requirements but we had no financial support with it.
21:00And this is extremely unfair.
21:01What is happening now in the next MFF is also that cohesion funds are going down.
21:07So that means that cities in the most vulnerable regions are actually going to suffer over cuts of funds.
21:11How we can make a legal requirement to a city that is already extremely underfunded?
21:15We have a requirement from Europe and then we say, but then you see how to do it.
21:19then European citizens are going to hate us.
21:21We need to do both.
21:22We need to do regulation.
21:23We need to accompany people and cities to do this.
21:26And we need to give the right financial provisions.
21:28Seeing there, I'm different.
21:29I say, no, we do not need legal regulation because this is something that the municipalities,
21:34the nation states in terms of subsidiarity can deal with on local level.
21:38And they need to see what is possible to fund, where do the funds come from.
21:42And at the same time, every region, every city is different.
21:44We have very different elements in the city.
21:47So let them do their job on the ground.
21:49They do an fantastic job.
21:50That's an interesting question.
21:50Is it becoming a question of inequality?
21:52Absolutely.
21:53And this is a cohesion matter because it's inequality within Europe.
21:57That's why, of course, we don't need a very strong regulation.
22:00But we can have regulation of consumption of soil that, for example, we propose.
22:04And again, the EPP has watered down saying like, no, let's not put it binding.
22:08So we still have a very high rate of consumption of soil.
22:12And Europe has done nothing about it.
22:13While we know that consumption of soil is very bad for heat waves and flooding.
22:18That doesn't mean that we need to say to the city how to do it.
22:21But we can say, OK, now we need to reduce the consumption of soil.
22:25And now we need to remake green some areas.
22:28And we can provide you with the financial support.
22:30That means more on resources.
22:33That means also maybe taxing the richest part of the population that's becoming richer and richer.
22:37And maybe doing some public debt as well, common debt.
22:40Thank you so far.
22:41And now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round.
22:49And here we want to do something different.
22:51I'm going to ask you a set of questions.
22:53And you can only answer with yes or no.
22:56OK?
22:57Andrea, I start with you.
22:59Simple question.
23:00Is Europe winning the fight against climate change?
23:02Yes, they're on their way.
23:03Uh-huh.
23:04Bernadette?
23:06No.
23:07No.
23:07All right.
23:08Should new homes be legally required to withstand extreme heat?
23:11No, it's not another mandatory requirement.
23:14We go for decarbonisation.
23:15And this is one of the main levers for housing.
23:18OK.
23:18They already are for European directive.
23:20So I hope this answer doesn't mean that EPP wants to backtrack us on that.
23:24OK.
23:25Has climate policy become too ideological?
23:28Yes.
23:30Yeah, from the far right, because they are attacking it without knowing it.
23:34OK.
23:35And one more.
23:37Is there anything that you have heard over the past half hour from your opponent that you agree with?
23:45A lot of things, actually.
23:46We all agree that we need to fasten up on climate prevention, adaptation, mitigation,
23:52that we need to provide the correct funding.
23:55I think we have a different view on regulation, on the role of Europe and the role of European budget.
24:04But there's other things that at least me and Andrea agree.
24:06I'm not sure the whole group of Andrea will agree.
24:10Andrea?
24:11Well, I think in the targets we are absolutely aligned.
24:14And it's a question of how we implement it, even in the small targets, about air conditioning.
24:18I think there is a strong alignment.
24:20So let's make this work.
24:21There's always the argument that when it comes to climate policy that says politicians haven't brought the public on board.
24:30Yeah.
24:31Is that something you agree with?
24:33I absolutely agree with that, because there's been a lot of targets.
24:38And I've said this before.
24:39That was the problem on our last mandate.
24:41There were a lot of targets that I really agree with.
24:43But there was not enough guidelines guiding and funding to actually achieve those targets.
24:50So if you say to someone, this is it, now you need to renovate your house, you need to buy
24:54an electric car, you need to do this, they will not be able to do it.
24:58But instead, if you say, okay, like, let's say to the member states that they need to renovate all the
25:03public housing that are inefficient,
25:05and we give them part of the money and they need to find the other part of the money,
25:09then the part of the population that is in the most difficulties will have a better house, the targets will
25:15be met, and actually the most inefficient building park will be renovated.
25:19If we did San Fernando, we would have the people on board.
25:23If we just say, what to do, no.
25:24That's the very different approach from us.
25:26Like, we would not put it down from Brussels on the people and give them funding for it.
25:30But we want people bottom up to have a business case to understand that if they install a heat pump,
25:36this is going to be beneficial economically for the environment.
25:40Let them be part of the solution and not paternalistically, from the top, from Brussels, bring it down to the
25:46people and give them funding.
25:48Have you ever been to the south of Europe or to the eastern Europe?
25:51Oh, yes.
25:51Oh, yes.
25:52I've lived in Italy for two years.
25:54Do you see the condition of some people living there?
25:56I know.
25:57Do you think they can afford to put a heat pump?
26:00And that would be the first vote.
26:01Energy prices in Italy are one of the highest.
26:03That is not about the energy prices.
26:05I know, I know, I know, I know.
26:06But this is not the case.
26:07But the problem is that in some places of our continent, and not just in some regions, but like in
26:14the suburbs where the most vulnerable people live, people cannot afford to put a heat pump.
26:20So we're going to be like, oh, we give you a business case and you do it.
26:24They cannot afford to pay the rent.
26:26They cannot afford to pay the food.
26:28And we want to give them a business case?
26:30No, we need to give support.
26:32We need to give financing.
26:33And we need to want a euro pass at once.
26:36So that has no differences.
26:38Instead, if we say, you do it on your local level, we will just increase inequalities and differences.
26:44Does she have a point here?
26:45No, well, I do see the point which she's trying to make.
26:49But eventually it will not work if you partner realistically make, you know, you're now forcing the people into transformation,
26:55even though they're in vulnerable areas, even though there is energy poverty.
26:58And it's taking them on board and having investments being made in those local communities is massively better.
27:05And if you talk about Italy, it's one of the most fossil fuel dependent energy systems.
27:09I know.
27:09That's why here we have to change and then electricity prices go down and then you do have a business
27:14model.
27:15All right.
27:15I think we cannot solve the problem today, but thank you so much for a very interesting conversation.
27:22Then this brings us to the end of this edition of The Ring.
27:25Thanks again to Benedetta Scudeli and Andrea Wechsler.
27:29Thanks to our audience at home.
27:31If you'd like, you can continue the conversation by sending us your comments to the ring at euronews.com.
27:38That's it for today.
27:39I'm Stefan Grober.
27:40Take care and see you soon on Euronews.