- 2 weeks ago
Shannon talks identifying with his characters and his work as an actor.
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00:03Hey everyone, I'm Natalie Heltzel with The Hollywood Reporter, and I'm joined by Michael
00:07Shannon. Hello, welcome, thank you for being here. Thanks, Natalie. So you're in the new movie,
00:12The Shape of Water, from Guillermo del Toro. Let's just jump right in. For anyone who may
00:18not be familiar with the movie, can you give us just the elevator pitch, what it's about?
00:23Yeah, it's about a cleaning lady who falls in love with a fish man.
00:28That is accurate. And I guess you know you've played a lot of the bad guy before. What was
00:38different about this one, and how did you identify? Well, you know, it's kind of a period piece. It
00:45takes place in, I believe it's the early 60s here in America, kind of a post-Cold War, not even
00:56post. Cold War hysteria, you know, and my character Strickland has captured this creature in the
01:04Amazon and brought him back to the top secret government laboratory to do experiments on him
01:12because we want to get a leg up on the Russians. We believe that this creature has secrets that will
01:18help us defeat the Russians. It's all very, a lot of intrigue, I guess. But yeah, he actually just
01:27turns out to be a really sweet creature and Liza falls in love with him. In terms of how this
01:34character is different for me, I don't know, every character is different. You know, it's all in the details, I
01:44guess.
01:45I mean, I've never played a character who liked candy before. That was a new, new thing.
01:52Yeah, it was really, was that in the script? Was it that?
01:54Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He, he, he, yeah, the candy's a big part of it. Um,
02:00Yeah, I, I, I like, I don't know, I, for me, I think, I like Strickland's, uh, sense of humor.
02:08I actually think he's pretty funny, uh, even though he's kind of uptight and demented, but
02:15he's, he's got a weird sense of humor. So do I.
02:21So I guess you kind of identify with him in that way. Um, do you feel like you have to
02:25personally identify with a character in order to play that character?
02:31Well, it's an interesting question. It calls into question the nature of identifying with something.
02:38I mean, it's a constant struggle, right? Identifying, even identifying yourself, let alone anybody else, right?
02:47Yeah, fair enough.
02:48So, I'm always on the hunt.
02:51Um, so, you have a couple of scenes that are a little bit harsh, maybe even mean a little between,
03:00particularly, particularly between you and, there's a scene with you and Sally Hawkins
03:04where your character has to be a little bit mean or intimidating to her, um, not to give any spoilers
03:10away, but, um, and then, you know, your character's a little brutal, uh, with the creature.
03:16Um, what was it like in between?
03:18Well, he bit my fingers off.
03:20Yeah, he started it. Yeah.
03:21I mean, I don't know how, I don't know how I would feel if somebody did that to me.
03:27Yeah.
03:27Or a creature did that to me.
03:28Fair enough, the first time he bit your fingers off.
03:31Yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:31But, you know, after that, it goes a little bit far. Um, but I, I was just curious.
03:35You're so judgmental.
03:38Um, I, I'm just, the audience, that's what Guillermo was feeding me to feel.
03:42Right, right, right.
03:42And you did your job, though, so there's that.
03:45Thank you, thank you.
03:45Um, but I was curious, what was it like in between takes with you and whenever you were just yourself
03:52and Sally with Sally and, you know, Doug Jones?
03:56You know, the, the, everybody's real nice to each other. Um, really friendly and supportive, you know.
04:05Um, Sally, usually after I did a take with Sally, she'd be like, oh, you were so good and I
04:12was so rubbish.
04:13I'd be like, no, Sally, you weren't rubbish, you were great.
04:16She's like, no, you were, you were amazing and I was rubbish.
04:20And I was like, no, it was great. It's all great. We got it.
04:23Um, you know, Doug was just kind of silently suffering. Um, being in that costume, it's very hard, arduous thing
04:34to do.
04:35Yeah.
04:35Um, but not because of me. I don't think, I don't think I ever hurt Doug. I don't, it's all
04:42just make believe.
04:44I hate, yeah, hopefully not. Um, did he have a, cause I, I know it was a practical costume, but
04:50his face obviously was, um, some VFX.
04:53Did he have something covering his face? Were you, um, connected, like, were you connecting with him as an actor?
05:00No, I mean, he had the face, he, he disappeared. He was that thing. He had the whole nine yards
05:06from top to bottom.
05:07Yeah. Gotcha.
05:08They did, they added very little with the computer. It was mostly 99% there.
05:15Wow.
05:16Yeah, yeah.
05:16I mean, that's amazing. It looks really great. Um, what about working with Guillermo del Toro? Uh, you've never worked
05:23with him before, if I'm correct?
05:26No, I, I never have. I, I wanted to. I, I love his movies. Um.
05:31How is he as a director?
05:33He's, he's fantastic, you know, he's a very sweet man. I mean, he has a beautiful heart. I think you
05:40see his heart in the movie, which is one of the signs of a great director, is that they can,
05:48they can communicate who they are to the work that they do.
05:54So, um, it's, it's not as easy as it sounds. Yeah. But, uh, I, you know, he's very serious. He's
06:02very prepared. He works very, very hard. Um, and he, uh, he expects everyone else to do the same.
06:11But there's nothing like making him happy, you know, when you're on set and you're getting a scene done the
06:19way he wants. It's, it's very thrilling, you know, and he, he has so much enthusiasm and passion for what
06:26he does. It's, um, infectious.
06:30Does it give a lot of direction? Um, or, cause I'm just curious when you get a role, how you
06:34sort of, maybe I'll back up to where you dive in to a character.
06:39When you get a script and you start to really develop this character, maybe the way that they talk or
06:44mannerisms or things like that.
06:45How, um, how much of that do you do on your own beforehand? And then specifically with this movie, how,
06:51how much did you and Guillermo sort of collaborate on this character?
06:58Well, you know, for me, a lot of it's just about reading the script. Um, everything you need is there.
07:05If you read it closely enough, pay enough attention to it. Um, and if it's good writing, you know, um,
07:15Guillermo, uh, loves to rehearse.
07:17He loves to meet with the actors and, um, talk about their backstories. Um, he even comes up with a
07:23backstory, a history for you that he writes himself.
07:27He gives it to you and he says, this is what I was thinking. You can use it. You can
07:32not use it. But, uh, this is what I was thinking when I was thinking about the part.
07:36And I thought that was really, really special, actually. I'd never had a director do that before. So, yeah, for
07:45him, he, he, it's very important to be prepared.
07:47So that you don't waste time when you're, uh, when you're there shooting.
07:53Yeah, I wonder if he does that with all of his films and all of his actors. I've never heard
07:57of that either, really.
07:58I've heard actors doing it, you know.
07:59Yeah, yeah.
08:00You know, backstories and stuff, but.
08:02I, I'm not really sure. But, um, you know, I, I think this movie was very, very important to him.
08:10Um, I think he put a lot into it. I mean, I'm sure he puts a lot in that, all
08:15his movies.
08:16But, um, the way he always talked about it from the first time we met, I could tell that it
08:21was, um,
08:23it was something he wanted to make for a long time, something that really meant a lot to him.
08:29Yeah, I think, um, I was, uh, listening to a, I think it was a podcast that he was on
08:34or an article that I read.
08:35And he was saying that, um, you know, he had been making movies for a long time where he was
08:39sort of, uh,
08:41making it from the point where he was maybe a, what he would like as a child.
08:46And this one felt more adult for him.
08:48And he really was excited to actually see this, because I think he was also working on it since maybe
08:532011, I want to say.
08:55So it's a long time to kind of sit with something, but.
08:58Yeah. Well, it's usually, if you want to make something worthwhile, it, it requires a long time, you know.
09:07I mean, the same thing with, uh, like when I worked with Tom Ford, you know, he, he spends a
09:13long time developing his movies, his scripts.
09:17He's thinking about them.
09:19I mean, it's, it's not something to rush into.
09:23Yeah. I think there was a 10 year gap between a single man and nocturnal animals.
09:28I think so. Yeah.
09:28That sounds about right.
09:30Yeah. I mean, I don't know if he was working on nocturnal animals the whole time, but still, yeah.
09:3410 years in between is pretty, pretty substantial amount of time.
09:36Yeah.
09:37Um, so you have a theater background.
09:41Um, you're very involved. Uh, are you a founding member of the Red, Red Orchid in Chicago?
09:45Yeah. A Red Orchid. I was, I've been there, oh yeah, since it's our 25th anniversary.
09:53So we're, uh, I've been there since the beginning.
09:57Um, theater sort of, for an actor, I guess, sort of has this instant gratification, um, in a sense of
10:07having an audience there and present and reacting to you.
10:10So, um, what do you get out of, I guess, when you're filming a movie, you don't really have that.
10:18Are you thinking about the audience at all when you're in it?
10:21Are you just happy to be performing with actors and a director in this, you know, sort of contained atmosphere?
10:32Well, that's, that's hard to say. I mean, I guess it's different on every project.
10:38You know, the fascinating thing about this is that, um, Guillermo, uh, between setups for different shots, uh, he would
10:47edit on his monitor.
10:49He would start editing scenes.
10:51So you could literally see, um, you know, a lot of times what can be frustrating is when you walk
10:57away from the shoot, there's just such a long time before you get to see what you actually did or,
11:04or what it's going to be, you know.
11:06And, and with Guillermo, you got that sense right away, like...
11:10Did he show that to you, the piece he was coming to you?
11:13Yeah, you, you, anybody was welcome to stand next to him while he was doing it.
11:16He didn't, he didn't make me go away.
11:19Um, I, I don't think a lot of people watched him do it.
11:24You know, a lot of people don't like to see the monitor so much, but I, I don't mind.
11:30Because I, I just like to see how his mind is working, you know.
11:35Is acting still just as fulfilling, you think, um, on a film set without an audience?
11:40As, as it is in theater?
11:43Um, it can, it can be.
11:51It's very different.
11:52It's like, if you're at work on a film set, you'll have one or two scenes, maybe three scenes that
12:01day that you're trying to get exactly right.
12:05So it's, it's very stressful because I want, you know, I'm kind of a perfectionist and, um, it's hard to,
12:13when something's over and you're pretty sure you're not going to shoot anymore on it, um, to just walk away
12:21and be at peace.
12:22You know, I think, wow, that was, that was good enough, I guess.
12:26You know, it's just hard, it's a hard thing for me to do.
12:29But, you know, I sure like seeing, um, the end result and, and knowing that it's, um, you know, with
12:38theater, it just disappears.
12:40You know, I mean, it lives on, I guess, in people's memory of it.
12:43But, it's, it's a different experience, yeah.
12:48Do you watch your own movies?
12:50Do you watch a lot of movies in general?
12:53I don't get to watch a lot of movies, but I, I usually, I'm always interested to see, uh, something
13:01I worked on.
13:01I usually go to the premiere, see, uh, I'm just interested to see everyone else's contribution to the thing.
13:10See how it turned out as a whole.
13:12Yeah.
13:14Um, what's been a movie from the last year that you really liked?
13:20Hold on.
13:23A movie from last year I really liked.
13:26The Florida Project.
13:28I saw that too.
13:29Yeah.
13:29I was very impressed with that movie.
13:32Yeah.
13:33Um, did you see Tangerine?
13:35I didn't.
13:36And I'm not, I'm kind of a anti-iPhone guy.
13:42So, I wasn't clamoring to see a movie that apparently had been made on an iPhone.
13:50And that prejudice may have been, led me not to see Tangerine.
13:55Yeah, it's fine.
13:55I think the podcast I was listening to, you were mentioning about your flip phone.
13:59Um, but, you know, the guy made the movie with an iPhone.
14:03I know, I, well now I'll go back and look at it.
14:06Yeah.
14:06Did he make Florida Project with an iPhone?
14:08I don't think so.
14:08Uh, just Tangerine.
14:10I believe just Tangerine.
14:11I could be wrong.
14:12Right.
14:12Um, but, uh, if we can, I think we still have a few minutes left.
14:16I know you have Waco coming up.
14:18Um, can you maybe tease a little bit about that, if that's okay?
14:22Well, it's a matter of public record, I believe.
14:25Well, David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, and, um, their horrible ordeal they went through.
14:33Um, because I think you also said, um, I watched an interview where you, maybe a couple times
14:40you said that you're kind of a fan of true crime.
14:41Oh, yeah.
14:42So, did this sort of fall in there, uh, with your...
14:46Well, it's interesting, it was interesting for me because I got to play a gentleman that
14:50I don't think a lot of people, uh, knew about his contribution at the time, a fellow named
14:56Gary Nessner.
14:57He was the head negotiator for the FBI.
15:01And, uh, he's still, uh, I've met him, we've become friends.
15:07He's a very sweet man, and, uh, he really tried so hard to resolve that situation peacefully.
15:19Um, and I just think it's a great project because there are some people that don't know anything
15:26about it.
15:26Uh, it's been long enough ago, uh, long...
15:31Did I say that right?
15:32No.
15:33It's been long ago enough.
15:37There you go.
15:38I didn't catch it, but yeah, that's right.
15:40Um, that, uh, there's some people that don't know anything about it, and even the people
15:44that do remember it.
15:45And I think there's a lot of details that got swept under the rug, you know, so, uh...
15:51Yeah.
15:51Yeah.
15:52I'm really curious to see it, too.
15:53I mean, I'm a true crime fanatic myself, and, uh, I do not know enough about that one,
15:58so I'm definitely going to tune into that.
15:59Cool.
16:00Um, and you did mention earlier about your, uh, theater company celebrating 25 years, and
16:06I believe you're directing, um, is it you're directing a play?
16:10I am.
16:10Um, yeah, that's what I'll be doing in December.
16:13Okay.
16:14It's, um, it's a play called Traitor.
16:18It's a modern, uh, adaptation of an older play called, uh, Enemy of the People by Henrik
16:26Ibsen.
16:27And, uh, yeah, I'll be directing that.
16:30When does that run?
16:31In January?
16:31In January?
16:32That opens in January.
16:34January and most of February.
16:37It'll be there.
16:38You're a busy guy.
16:39I know.
16:39Uh, so you've got the play, you've got Waco, you've got, uh, The Shape of Water.
16:44I think that's all the time we have for today.
16:46Thank you so much for chatting.
16:48Um, December 8th, go see The Shape of Water, and, uh, all of the other various projects that
16:52Michael Shannon's working on.
16:53Thanks, guys.
16:54Thanks.
16:55And, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
16:59uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
16:59uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
16:59uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
16:59uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
17:00You
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