- 25 minutes ago
“The idea is to make something that feels really universal and feels like a lot of people from all walks of like can identify with it and make it their own,” Justin Paul told THR.
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00:00Welcome to meet your Oscar nominees. I'm Tiffany Taylor for The Hollywood
00:03Reporter, and I'm here with Bench Pasek and Justin Paul, and they are nominated
00:07for Best Original Song for This Is Me from The Greatest Showman. Congratulations!
00:11Thank you, Tiffany Taylor. That's a pretty great name, Tiffany Taylor.
00:14Thank you guys. Very alliterative. You guys have the alliteration going on, too.
00:18Oh, I'm trying to rock it together. It's it's a fun thing.
00:21We'll join it. We'll have a band together. Oh, I'm down for that. I love you guys,
00:25and I'm a huge fan of Dear Evan Hansen, and I loved The Greatest Showman.
00:28Thank you. So talk to me about how you got involved in this project.
00:31This has been a project that we have been working on, I guess, for a really long time.
00:36Yeah, it was really the first thing that we ever got involved with in film at all.
00:40We came out to LA actually to work on Dear Evan Hansen, and while we were here we
00:44had a chance meeting, our first meeting at a big Hollywood studio, and they said,
00:48you know, we're working on this musical. Let me see if the guy who's working on it is,
00:51you know, down the hall is in that day. So we went down the hall. He happened to be in.
00:54He was like, let me see if the director is like in town that day, and the director
00:58happened to be in LA that day. And it just kind of went on from there, and we got to
01:02audition for Michael Gracie.
01:04And we kept sort of auditioning. The sort of funny thing is that we never actually
01:09became the songwriters of the movie. Every song was an audition, basically. So they'd
01:14say, here's a slot for a song, and give us what you got, and we'll let you know, basically.
01:20And so we'd write something, and then they'd say, cool, here's another song moment. So it was
01:24like sort of a competition the whole time, weirdly. But we developed a really great
01:28collaboration with Michael Gracie, the director, and he was sort of rooting in our corner and
01:33helping us.
01:34Well, and he definitely had some Barnum-esque sort of qualities about himself when he was
01:40pitching us, because we didn't have any film credits. And the biggest credit that we had
01:43at that time was we had written A Christmas Story, which had been in New York for only
01:47seven weeks. And the studio execs would be like, who are these guys that you're trying to pitch?
01:51They wanted big, famous writers and stuff. And he'd be like, oh, no, no, they won a Tony
01:57award for James and the Giant Peach on Broadway, which we wrote a James and the Giant Peach,
02:01which had been at Seattle Children's Theater and had never been on Broadway.
02:04We certainly didn't win a Tony award. We definitely didn't win a Tony. So he was doing his little
02:07Barnum thing. And in LA, I think they didn't look as closely to what they would do in New York.
02:13They were like, cool. They're like, great, they won a Tony for James and the Giant Peach.
02:15We'll listen to their songs. So it worked out in the end.
02:17And now you have won a Tony, so it did all work out.
02:21Yes.
02:21When you were writing the music, did you know who would be singing the parts and playing
02:24the roles?
02:25Not everything, but in the first couple of songs that we wrote were for the Barnum
02:29character. And from the beginning, Hugh Jackman was attached to do that. So obviously that was
02:33a dream come true for us, being movie musical fans and being Broadway guys, and that's the
02:39world that we come from. Hugh is like the song and dance man of our time. And so we started
02:46writing things with his voice in mind. And that's a really cool thing to get to do, to
02:50know his strengths and what he really excels at, and to be able to then cater those songs
02:56to someone like him. Of course it was terrifying the first time that we had to meet him and
02:59actually, like, we felt great about the songs until he came to actually sing them. And then
03:04we're like, what are we doing? And it was just us and him in a room, and we're like, are
03:08we
03:09supposed to get him notes? Do we teach him? How does this work? So we were freaking out.
03:14When you received this nomination, how did you feel? Because you actually won this award
03:18last year for City of Stars from La La Land. So what did it feel like to receive this nomination
03:22after that crazy ride? It was really, really thrilling. This was a song that we were really
03:29passionate about creating, and that this process for this film, you know, we started working
03:33on it a year and a half before La La Land was even something that we were a part of.
03:38So especially
03:39this is me, and getting that collaboration with Keala Settle, who is an incredible Broadway
03:43actress who, you know, we didn't know if she, when we were doing the workshops of this,
03:48if she would get to be a part of the film if it were ever made, if we would get
03:51to be
03:51a part of the film if it were ever made. So it really, this felt like the culmination
03:55of many, many years against a lot of odds. And, you know, we can't believe that the film
04:02exists in the world, and that Keala gets to sing the song, and that she's going to perform
04:05on the Oscar stage. Like, that is so cool to us, and so mind-blowing, and it feels to
04:10us like a theater nerd win in the biggest way possible.
04:14What can you tell us about that Oscar moment? What can we as fans expect?
04:19Oh, we're just beginning to talk about it.
04:21It's all kind of forming right now. I think the good thing is, what's exciting is where
04:26we're coming from on it, and where the folks of the Academy and the Oscar show are coming
04:31from on it, everybody is really excited about how do we capture the message of the
04:35song, and in a way that takes what it is in the movie and then brings it beyond that.
04:41So I think the idea is to make something that feels really universal and feels like
04:46a lot of people from all walks of life can identify with it and make it their own.
04:51So we're figuring out how to manifest that on stage exactly, but one thing I can tell
04:55you is that Keala Settle is a Broadway performer who sings eight times a week on Broadway, so
05:00she will deliver a live performance like nobody else.
05:04Every time we see her, she's like, guys, I have one goal for the Oscars, and we're like,
05:08what is it? She's like, I just want to melt Meryl Streep's face off.
05:11We're like, all right, Keala, calm down, calm down. But we'll see if she's successful,
05:16because she's going to go for it.
05:18That's awesome. Well, This Is Me is such an empowering song. So what has it been like
05:21to see the positive fan reaction to the song, and just the positive fan reaction to The Greatest
05:25Showman overall?
05:26It's been really amazing. When you're a songwriter, I guess your goal, I think, is to become as invisible as
05:33possible in the process.
05:33And let the words and the music really pour through Keala's soul, and it becomes about her and that character
05:39in that moment.
05:39And what's been so amazing for us and for Keala is that now so many other people are making the
05:45song their own.
05:47And it's a message and a song that's personal to us and personal to me, personal to Keala, in the
05:53sense that, you know,
05:54anyone who's ever sort of felt like they weren't good enough, or they were not lovable, or they felt like
05:59they were
05:59broken, or they felt like they didn't deserve to be loved, it's a song that really is about declaring that
06:06you are lovable
06:07not despite your flaws, but because of your flaws. And to see so many people embracing that message and owning
06:14that for
06:15themselves has been really, really beautiful and emotional. And, you know, you do a little search on YouTube where we
06:22get these
06:22videos that people send us.
06:23People are sending them and posting them. I mean, Keala is, like, maybe the most generous about it. She posts,
06:27she reposts so many people's
06:30performances. And what's cool about that is it's not her, you know what I mean? She's doing the same thing
06:34of getting out of the way and just sort of letting the song and the music and the lyrics sort
06:38of speak to people and they can claim it the way they want to claim it and use it the
06:42way they want to use it. So she, I mean, check out her Instagram.
06:45It's like her, you know, Twitter or whatever. It's just great performances and such interesting, unique covers of the music.
06:53Yeah, and I think also when you create a song or she sings a song that you feel like is
06:59personal to you, you're not sure if there are other people that will identify with it. And this is a
07:03song about, you know, feeling a little bit, you know, ugly or, you know, as we said, broken.
07:09And you sometimes feel like you're very alone in that feeling. And when you shine a little bit of a
07:15light on it, it's very scary to put yourself out there.
07:17I think for her as a performer, there's another video on YouTube of the first time that she ever performed
07:21the song live and she was so nervous to do it.
07:23And taking that risk and sort of showing the sort of ugly parts of you and the vulnerable parts of
07:29you, it, I think, allows other people to realize that the things that they're scared of showing, they don't have
07:35to be alone in that.
07:36And, you know, you're shining a little bit of light in a very dark place and you're realizing that so
07:39many other people are huddled there too.
07:40And there's a sense of that you don't have to be alone in feeling like, you know, you might not
07:46fit in with the world and that there's a community of people that can identify with that feeling.
07:54And bringing people who feel that way together is, I don't know, a really, really overwhelmingly positive and exciting thing
08:01to witness.
08:02That feeling of you are not alone that you're speaking to, that's what Dear Evan Hansen, your musical, is so
08:06much about.
08:07And I feel like that's why that musical is so inspiring and the music of it is so wonderful because
08:11you listen to it and it's so relatable and uplifting.
08:13So why do you guys think that might be a theme throughout the music you've written for these different shows?
08:18What are you saying about us?
08:20We're just trying to give ourselves, it's like a pep talk, I guess.
08:24I don't know.
08:27It's just giving ourselves catharsis constantly.
08:29No, I don't know.
08:30I mean, I think that we are definitely attracted to stories of redemption, stories of hope and optimism in the
08:37face of odds, stories of second chances.
08:42I think that's, you know, and maybe it's a little bit corny, but I think it's the way that we
08:46view the world, or at least the way we want to view the world or we hope that the world
08:50is.
08:51And, you know, we can be at times as cynical as anybody out there, but we're sort of living in
08:59a pretty cynical time, I think, and a dark and sort of treacherous time as well.
09:04And so I think in those moments we're really attracted to stories that uplift and moments where we can write
09:12music that uplifts or that even if it goes to a dark place ultimately brings us back up and sort
09:18of out of the darkness or out of the shadows.
09:20Well that's why I think people love The Greatest Showman and your musicals so much because you leave The Greatest
09:24Showman and you can't help but feel good.
09:25Like you walk out and you want to sing and dance.
09:27I went home and like listened to the music in my apartment and was singing and dancing around because it
09:31just makes you feel good and people want to feel good.
09:33I mean we were working on Dear Evan Hansen and The Greatest Showman sort of in parallel tracks at the
09:36same time.
09:37And Dear Evan Hansen obviously goes to a little bit darker place and a little bit more of a psychological
09:43subject matter.
09:46And so for us it was sort of our refuge to then sort of take a moment to pause on
09:53Dear Evan Hansen and then go to work on The Greatest Showman where it was like this is so fun,
09:57this is joyous.
09:58It was, you know, we'd sort of be in the mire of what Evan is going through in that story
10:03and then pause and then go work on something that Hugh Jackman was going to sing and dance to.
10:08It was a nice balance during that period of writing.
10:11And sometimes the celebration of optimism or being hopeful is not necessarily cool and I think that's been a process
10:17for us too of like, you know what, it doesn't matter if it's cool or it's not cool.
10:21Like it feels like, you know, there's hope in the world and we all need a little bit of that.
10:27And music has an amazing ability to pierce through cynicism and get to the emotional heart of, you know, human
10:34beings.
10:34And so to get to write songs that are about a celebration of that kind of optimism and hope and
10:40joy and wonder.
10:41That don't have a wink to them.
10:43Yeah, and it doesn't have to be ironic but that says that, you know, that the world can be a
10:47beautiful place and that there's a reason to be optimistic about what tomorrow can be.
10:52I'm all in for that even if it's like a decidedly uncool thing to say out loud.
10:59That's awesome. It's cool to be uncool.
11:01I guess but I think we're like past that.
11:05We're back to uncool.
11:06Yeah, yeah. Many iterations of it, yeah.
11:08Well with the song This Is Me, it's so empowering and uplifting as we've said.
11:11So it's a song for all these commercials for the NBC Winter Olympics.
11:14How did that come about and what was your reaction when you found out it was going to be placed
11:17there?
11:18I think we were both like, this is the closest that we've ever come to being in sports.
11:22We're very excited about that turn.
11:24My dad can be proud of me again.
11:26No, but I mean that it's sort of like, I think that, I don't know, to us it's maybe, aside
11:33from the way that Keala does it in the film and being proud of that, it's like probably the coolest
11:37thing that we could imagine.
11:39That it would be used to represent sort of what the Olympics stand for and stories of, I mean we
11:45just can't help but feel inspired as you're watching the song cut against all these Olympians who were fighting against
11:51the odds and triumphing.
11:53It's a really, really cool thing and probably the coolest thing for us is to look back at that video
11:59of Keala performing it in a rehearsal room, in a dingy rehearsal room in New York City for the first
12:04time, not knowing what she was becoming in that moment.
12:08And then cut to her voice is being used, you know, to promote the Olympics around the world.
12:14That's a really cool journey for her.
12:16Is there a scene from The Greatest Showman that particularly stands out as exceeding your expectations?
12:22Oh man, well I have to say, beyond This Is Me and Keala, I think we were really excited to
12:27work with both Zac Efron and Zendaya and they have such an amazing chemistry together.
12:31And the song, Rewrite The Stars, we really thought the way that Michael conceived it, it's this push and this
12:37pull of these people who are not allowed to be together.
12:40And it's a song about deciding who you're going to love ultimately and not letting the world tell you who
12:44you're allowed to love.
12:45And I think they capture that in the way that they sing it and capture that in the way that
12:50it's choreographed.
12:50And it's a really fun number to have been a part of.
12:53And do you have a favorite song from the movie?
12:56They're all our little babies.
12:58You can't choose one.
12:58They're all our little children.
13:00Yeah.
13:01Well that's awesome.
13:01I love both of those songs, This Is Me and Rewrite The Stars.
13:04So now we're going to do some Oscar questions because this is Meet Your Oscar nominees.
13:08So, what was the first movie that ever inspired you?
13:11Yeah.
13:12Okay, so the first movie I ever saw in a movie theater in 19, I believe, 89 was The Little
13:18Mermaid.
13:19And it was the first movie I ever saw and also the first subsequent musical I ever saw.
13:25And I think, we've talked about this a lot, but those Howard Ashman, Alan Menken movies during the Disney Renaissance
13:31I think paved the way.
13:32The reason that people are like, why is the musical back?
13:34Like, well, everyone who's our age and our generation, we grew up loving characters expressing themselves through song.
13:41Whether that be Aladdin or Ariel or, you know, Belle.
13:44And for me, I don't remember what the timing was.
13:47I was super obsessed with American Tail.
13:49Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:50Like, there are no cats in America.
13:53Like, I think for us it was like crazy because movies and music were just synonymous.
13:59Right.
14:00As we were growing up, there was no separation of that's a musical and that's a movie.
14:03It's a regular movie.
14:04That's not a musical.
14:05They were just movies.
14:06And it was just cinema to us.
14:08So that really inspired us, I think, and led us to do what we're doing today.
14:12If Jimmy Kimmel were to crack a joke about me, he would say.
14:16To answer that question.
14:17You or us?
14:17You.
14:18Oh.
14:18Oh, man.
14:19I mean, there's an obvious, yeah.
14:21It's too easy.
14:23It's too easy.
14:23We'll let you guys figure out what that would be.
14:25It might have to do with something that happened last year.
14:27We were on stage when it happened.
14:29Oh.
14:29It's low-hanging fruit, yeah.
14:31Well, yeah, we won't talk about that.
14:33Forget that ever happened.
14:35And the night would be incomplete, or the night, yeah, the night would be incomplete unless blank happens.
14:43Unless we get to...
14:44We need to be on Stevens.
14:44Oh, that's cool, yeah.
14:46I don't know.
14:46I was going to say something very corny, but I like that.
14:49Well, I was going to say, like, just getting to, like, you know, remembering to take in these moments and
14:54getting to share with the people that you love.
14:56I mean, this is like...
14:57That's good, too.
14:58It's true.
14:58It's like, you know, you're in this room with all these people that are such heroes and people who are
15:02shaping, you know, the things that you love and people who are, you know, that you respect so much.
15:07And that you get to bring the other people in your life who actually help make it happen, you know?
15:11I think watching it through our families' eyes and our loved ones' eyes is...
15:14I mean, look, we're blown away ourselves, but to see the wonder that they have as they're experiencing it, it's
15:20nice because it sort of takes the pressure and the spotlight or everything off of us.
15:24And I'm just like, it's like watching something through your kids' eyes or something like that.
15:27It's like you really appreciate it because they're just in awe and in wonder.
15:31And they're the ones who honestly deserve to be celebrated, too, because there are people in both of our lives
15:35who we wouldn't be getting to go to the Oscars if they hadn't supported us, if they hadn't encouraged us,
15:40if they hadn't told us we could chase our dreams, if they hadn't supported those all along the way.
15:44And last one, the nominee I'd like to dance with at the after parties is...
15:48Oh my god. The first person that came to my mind was Octavia Spencer.
15:55Mine was Willem Dafoe because I'm like, I think it would just be hilarious to be just getting down with
15:59Willem Dafoe. Like, what's that like?
16:01Yeah.
16:01What's his dancing? What's his club vibe?
16:03I bet Sally Hawkins can get crazy.
16:06Yeah.
16:06I don't know. Who's yours?
16:08Oh, gosh. I mean, I don't get to go to the Oscars.
16:10But if you had to dance with, you know.
16:12This year, maybe like, hmm, like Timothee Chalamet.
16:15I knew you were gonna say that! I looked in her eyes.
16:18Saoirse's gonna have a cool vibe going on.
16:20But I looked in her eyes and I knew she was gonna be like, Timothee Chalamet.
16:23Yeah, we get it.
16:24If you could be in the little inner circle with Timothee Chalamet and Saoirse, just like dancing, just like cool.
16:29Oh, wait, wait, wait.
16:30All the cool kids.
16:31I'll tell you, so at the Oscars luncheon, I got to meet Kobe Bryant, and I'm from Philadelphia, and that
16:36was the coolest thing.
16:37It was the coolest moment of my life, so I feel like, you know, I would want to boogie with
16:41Kobe.
16:42That'd be awesome.
16:43Another sports moment! I'm so masculine!
16:45We're very entrenched in sports now, so yeah.
16:47And just a couple more questions for you guys.
16:49So there's been rumors that The Greatest Showman could go to Broadway.
16:52Can you tell us anything about that?
16:55You know, we actually don't know anything about this, so...
16:59No, I mean, I think that probably...
17:03I think it's really likely that something will happen with that property, that there will be some sort of live
17:10something that will find a way to get it on a stage or a something of some kind.
17:17But, you know, we might think that we're in charge of that, but we're not really in charge of that.
17:24It's a little bit above our pay grade.
17:25Yeah, it's a little above our pay grade, so we'll probably get an email that says,
17:28here's what you're doing, and we say, oh, okay, well, let's discuss it.
17:31But, no, we would hope to...
17:33I mean, honestly, we don't know what's going to happen, but I hope that people get to...
17:38When we look back at those workshop videos, and look at Keala, and look at Hugh, and the way that
17:42they perform in the room,
17:44and the way that it feels, the way it felt to us, we hope that there's some sort of vehicle
17:47for them to perform those songs live.
17:49And that people get to sing along with it there.
17:52Yeah, I mean, there's all these sing-alongs.
17:53Sing-alongs, which I feel like just creating a communal environment where people feel free to, like, be a part
17:57of something...
17:58Engage with it, yeah.
17:58That's really cool, so we're down for whatever that might be.
18:01And finally, what's next for you guys?
18:03Ooh, well, we got, actually, the amazing opportunity to collaborate with Alan Menken for the live-action Aladdin that's going
18:11to come out next year.
18:12So we wrote a couple of songs with him, and that was an unbelievable experience because, as we were just
18:18saying, that's, like, why we do what we do.
18:20It's a heavy hero worship kind of situation.
18:22Yeah, it was very, very awkward for many, many weeks.
18:24I feel like we just asked him questions for weeks and weeks and weeks, and he's like, guys, we should
18:28write a song.
18:28We should actually work.
18:29Like, yeah, yeah, but, but, but, but, when you were doing this...
18:31So it was, that was really cool, and we got to write a couple new songs and look at some
18:35extended versions of old songs and stuff.
18:38So, you know, Guy Ritchie's directed that movie, and I think they just wrapped, so that'll be out.
18:43I think maybe it's Memorial Day of 19 or something, but it's exciting.
18:47It's a, yeah, childhood dream come true.
18:49Full circle moment.
18:50Yeah, it really, really is.
18:52Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for talking to me, and good luck at the Oscars.
18:54Thank you so much. Thanks.
18:56Thanks.
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