- 6 hours ago
Metwally says 'Mr. Robot' creator Sam Esmail, "demands a lot of the viewer. It's not something to be watched passively."
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00:03Hi this is Mariah Gillow from The Hollywood Reporter. I'm here in studio
00:07with Omar Matoly today. Omar, thank you so much for coming in.
00:10Thanks for having me.
00:12So you are Agent Santiago on Mr. Robot. Season three is wrapped. We're
00:20recording this before season three wraps.
00:23It feels dangerous to talk about this.
00:25It's very dangerous. We're here to talk spoilers, but everybody will have seen the
00:29episode by the time we talk about this. But I wanted to talk to you a little bit
00:34about Mr. Robot in general. What the hell is going on? I am so, this show is so
00:42amazing. It's cinematic, it's beautiful, it's fascinating. Everything like the
00:48music, the drama, the actors, it's so wonderful. But it is such a frustrating
00:54and confounding plot line. I never know what's happening.
00:59I know you really have to pay attention. He demands a lot of the viewer. I think it's not
01:05something to be watched passively. You really have to participate. And also I think you have
01:12to be okay with not knowing what's going on sometimes and trusting that the story will resolve
01:20or things will become clear.
01:22Right. Trust that things will, that if you do not know if you're in reality,
01:25eventually something will come through.
01:28Exactly.
01:29And you'll be like, oh, I see what's happening.
01:30Exactly. And as we were chatting earlier, Elliot, the narrator, is such an unreliable narrator
01:38that even when you think you know what's going on, you can't be 100% sure that it's not some
01:44kind of faulty perception.
01:47But I think that's part of what's satisfying about the show is that you trust the storytelling
01:55and trust that you're along for the ride. And that when the threads are tied and connections are made,
02:04it's really fun and satisfying.
02:08You know, the way, because Sam is keeping seven ideas in his head at once and, you know, tying them
02:16all together when it's time.
02:18Right. And he's keeping it to himself primarily, it seems.
02:21He does.
02:21He does keep it close to his chest.
02:23I've heard stories from the other actors saying, you know, like, what is your experience when you work on this
02:29show?
02:29Is it, do you have less information than you usually do on another show?
02:34I mean, you've also done film, so you get a complete sense of your character when you're doing film.
02:39But on television, sometimes you're only given certain pages.
02:43And this one is particularly secretive, correct?
02:46Yeah. I mean, I think it is and it isn't, you know.
02:49I mean, what's tricky is filling in the parts of the story that you're not in, you know.
02:56So, but even when my character was introduced in season two, I thought, oh, this is like, he's going to
03:05be a good guy.
03:06He's going to be helping Dom, you know.
03:08I thought maybe, I had all these ideas about what the story might be.
03:12And it went in a completely different direction, you know, much darker.
03:17Right.
03:17And when did you find out?
03:18And more sinister than I expected.
03:20Yeah.
03:21Yeah.
03:21When did you find out about that dark turn?
03:23Um, I think it wasn't until we were at the table reads for the episodes, for the scripts this season,
03:31before we started shooting.
03:35Because Sam has all the scripts written ahead of time, you know, and then they block shoot all ten episodes.
03:41So, I knew, I had a sense of what the arc was for the character.
03:47And I thought, oh, man, this is, you know, a lot darker than I expected.
03:54Although I started to get an inkling of it at the end of last season.
03:57Right.
03:57The way he was sort of cutting it.
03:58So, you saw it in the editing, you saw it in the cuts that you, maybe something that, because it
04:06makes sense to not inform an actor about a dark turn until absolutely necessary just to give them, so that
04:16they're not giving too much away.
04:17Mm-hmm, exactly, exactly, yeah, but I started to see in season two that Santiago was constantly putting up roadblocks
04:25for Dom, played by Grace Gummer, and her investigation.
04:30And so, and I thought, oh, he's interfering here.
04:34There's some, he hasn't some, there's some other, he has another agenda.
04:37And it turned out, in fact, to be true.
04:39Right.
04:39Yeah, so.
04:41Yeah, and then when you have to, you know, you know, take that bold move into having your character turn
04:48by, you know, murdering, murdering a cop.
04:51A police officer, yeah.
04:52What was that day of filming?
04:55It's fun in a sense, because, you know, you understand as an actor that this is going to be a
05:01very surprising moment, you know, for the audience.
05:04So, so there's a lot of fun in that.
05:07Um, and, you know, all those scenes we did out in the country at the, at the farmhouse were, were
05:13a lot of fun, even though they're, you know, involve horrific violence.
05:20Right.
05:21But, but still.
05:22Sometimes that's the best, best day of shooting, is when you get to do something really spectacular, physical, crazy.
05:28Exactly, exactly.
05:29Involving squibs.
05:31Exactly, yes.
05:32Or, or axe wounds, or whatever, you know, whatever it may be.
05:37Yeah, those days are really fun.
05:39It's true.
05:40Yeah.
05:40Um, so tell me about, uh, working with Bobby, Bobby Carnival.
05:44Mm-hmm.
05:45Um, you guys have a, a contentious kind of relationship.
05:49Yeah.
05:49With this last season.
05:50Yeah.
05:50Which, uh, ends up, uh.
05:52Well, he, I, I love working with him, and he's, he's just so great on the show.
05:59You know, he's doing something really, really interesting and fun, I think.
06:03And, and his character is such a unique, um, presence on the show, and, and, and offers, offers a very
06:12interesting perspective on the events.
06:14You know, um, and so, yeah, we, there is this sort of contentious relationship, um, between the two of us,
06:22and so it's fitting that he's ultimately the one that, that finishes me off.
06:28Yeah.
06:29You know, um, in, in, in quite dramatic fashion.
06:34So, but we had a great time.
06:36Yeah, yeah.
06:37Um, you know, it's interesting because, like, the, the FBI plotline is kind of the most, it feels like the
06:43most reliable.
06:44Like, like you said, it's an unreliable narrative.
06:47Yeah.
06:47Um, you know, with Rami's character, um, but it feels like when you're kind of stepping into the FBI's world,
06:53you're like, oh, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm actually seeing what's happening.
06:56I can believe what I'm seeing here.
06:58Yeah.
06:58Yeah.
06:58I think that's probably because for most of the season, Elliot is not directly engaged in that plotline.
07:05It's sort of circling around him.
07:07Um, and so, you know, I think Dom DiPiro is one of the more trustworthy sort of characters in the,
07:17in the, in the show.
07:19Right.
07:19You know.
07:20Do you think that, like, kind of speaks to our higher, uh, uh, belief that the FBI is a very
07:26reliable, uh, part of our government?
07:29Because it's kind of interesting.
07:31I mean, there, there's, like, this kind of myth of the GI man being, like, really, you know,
07:34a stand-up guy, we have these things, this investigation with Robert Moore coming.
07:40Right, that's interesting.
07:41Like, we have that kind of feeling, but at the same time, there's also, like, historical evidence of the FBI,
07:46you know, being an unreliable.
07:49Super shady.
07:49Yeah, um, and, and, of course, I think that this show, uh, is, is really kind of exploding this idea
07:58of, of the FBI as this bastion of, you know, of righteousness and reliability.
08:06I think, um, I mean, on the one hand, though, I mean, it's, it's nuanced, because on the one hand,
08:11you have Dom, who is very committed to her job, very committed to the principles that she operates under.
08:17And then you have my character, who is, has been, you know, utterly corrupted.
08:23And, and, and, and so, you have both, you know, elements at work in this, in this, at the, in
08:32the FBI on the show.
08:33But I think with any sort of large organization like that, especially one that wields a lot of power, you're
08:41going to have all kinds of different people and different agendas working at once.
08:46And that's what's, I think, another thing this show captures so beautifully.
08:49Yeah.
08:50With the FBI and with, within a corporation, within society at large, within an individual mind, you know, the way
08:57we're at battle with ourselves.
08:59Yeah, yeah.
09:00I, I had an interesting quote from, uh, Vulture.
09:03Um, Sam Esmail and company have effectively illustrated how shadowy elites co-opt revolutionary movements to further their own misdeeds.
09:13And how that can lead to personal and existential ruin for the revolutionaries.
09:17Wow, that's really good.
09:19Isn't that kind of amazing?
09:20That really nails it, yeah.
09:22What kind of real news are you seeing that reminds you of the show right now?
09:27Because it seems like there's a lot of back and forth between what's happening right now, within this year.
09:34Yeah.
09:35With our own country, and then what's been happening on Mr. Robot.
09:39Yeah, the show is super prescient.
09:41I mean, I, I think, you know, just, I, I think it was episode eight, when Elliot goes to visit
09:50the families of Trenton and, and Mowgli.
09:53Mm-hmm.
09:54And, uh, he, he finds Trenton's father outside the house.
10:01And he, the, the, Trenton's father starts to talk about how they're leaving because of all this, the anti-Islamic
10:09sentiment that's being directed towards them and towards Muslims after the, the, the bombings.
10:15And, and I think that episode aired maybe the day or the day after, um, you know, Trump tweeted that
10:25those sort of Islamophobic videos from that source in England.
10:29And so, you know, it was, I find that the show consistently, um, is, is tapped into very, very current
10:40events, you know?
10:42Yeah.
10:42Um, I mean, uh, while the season was airing, there was all that stuff with, with the NSA being hacked
10:49and, and the NSA's tools being co-opted by different hacker groups.
10:53And, you know, I, I'm actually shocked that there aren't more shows on television that really deal with, with this
11:02world.
11:02Um, you know, um, you know, I think, but it's, it's, it's startling how, how much it seems to be
11:10tapped in.
11:10Right.
11:11I mean, it's definitely, I mean, you can tell, uh, just how much, uh, how much of the show has
11:17to be so cinematic and tightly wound that I can see why people don't take, take it on as much.
11:24Exactly.
11:25Um.
11:25Exactly.
11:26Yeah.
11:26Um, but are you, are you following the Mueller investigation closely?
11:31Not closely, not closely, no.
11:33I mean, when there's breaking news, I'll, you know, I read about, you know, um, but I haven't been following
11:40it super closely.
11:41Yeah.
11:41Yeah.
11:42Yeah.
11:42Um, and it just seems like there's, there's a lot of overlap between the show and reality.
11:48With your characters, Dom and Santiago, um, did you, uh, kind of look on, or have you ever kind of
11:55joked about the whole Scully and Mulder sort of partnership that you might have?
11:59Um, no, we never, we never did actually make that connection.
12:04As an X-Files fan.
12:05Yeah.
12:05That's funny.
12:06No, we never did make that connection.
12:07I'll, I'll share that with her.
12:09I think she'll enjoy that.
12:10Yeah.
12:11Um, so, uh, you know, what, what is it about Sam's creativity that kind of makes Mr. Robot feel so
12:18crazy, but also still rooted in reality, do you think?
12:23Hmm, I think, I think he just has a unique way of expressing himself and of telling the story, you
12:36know, and I, and I think all the elements are there for him, you know, the, the camera work, the
12:46way he can get great performances out of his cast from top to bottom, the writing.
12:52Um, and then the ideas and the, the philosophy in the show as well, you know, and, and all of
12:59the kind of pop culture references, the music, as you mentioned, and which is amazing on the show, and, um,
13:07you know, it's all, all of those things are kind of swirling around in him, so, and this is what
13:13you get.
13:13But, and how do you feel, I mean, now that your character is, okay, first of all, is your character
13:18truly gone?
13:21Um, it appears that way.
13:24Okay.
13:25He's, he's in, in multiple pieces, but, uh, you never know in the show because there are flashbacks, so maybe,
13:33fingers crossed, I'll come back.
13:34It's something I noticed about the flashbacks that I was telling you before, it's, it's hard to discern the flashbacks
13:40from, from reality, just because I, I see, there doesn't seem to be the, the regular, like, tropes of, um,
13:47creating, like, a different lighting sequence, or a different, like, feel to the past, present, and future.
13:53You, you, you literally just have to use the clues of dialogue.
13:56Exactly, exactly, yeah, exactly, but I think that's so much in keeping with, with the show, and, and, you know,
14:03making the audience pay attention, and participate in the, in the experience.
14:08And, also, I think, you know, there's something going on with time in the show, too, where, you know, at
14:15least within the characters' minds, past, present, future, it's all kind of mingling, you know?
14:22Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:23That's not a clue.
14:27There's, like, apparently, I guess there's, like, a whole contingent of fans that are interested in a, or talking about
14:35a time travel theory with the show.
14:37Oh, boy.
14:37Um, which I don't know anything about, but.
14:39That would be an interesting, kind of, Donnie Darko sort of twist.
14:45Yeah.
14:46Well, uh, I mean, now, uh, now that you kind of have come full circle with your character, um,
14:52do you, you know, any thoughts on, like, do you feel, like, a sense, like, that the story has been
14:58completely told, or are you, you know, what were.
15:01Certainly my part of it has been, yeah, there's, I don't think there's any coming back from, from what happened
15:07to Santiago.
15:09Right.
15:09Yeah.
15:10Right.
15:10But, you know, thankfully the show will, will continue.
15:13There's, you know, I, I, hopefully, there's a lot more to come.
15:17There's a lot more to tell, that's for sure.
15:19That's for sure.
15:20Yeah.
15:22Um, well, let me, uh, uh, wrap up our conversation with, uh, four questions.
15:27It's worst, best, last worst.
15:29Um, first acting job that made you think, I've made it.
15:33The, the first play I did on Broadway, I think, probably, yeah, was a play called Sixteen Wounded, and we
15:39did it in the, at a regional theater in, in New England, and then when it moved to Broadway.
15:45Oh, wow.
15:45I think, I remember standing on that stage for the first time and thinking, like, okay, this is, this is
15:49a milestone.
15:50Yeah.
15:51Wonderful.
15:52Uh, best story you have from the set of Mr. Robot.
15:56Hopefully a good, a good story will pop up for me.
15:59Yeah, I mean, maybe your death scene.
16:02Well, I mean, yeah, that was, that was a really memorable day, and I think, um, you know, we had
16:10to, um, Bobby swings this axe at me, and so we had a magnetic plate sort of hidden under my
16:20shirt, and, and so the, the, the end of the false axe was, had to connect with that.
16:27And so, you know, it was, it required a lot of sort of accuracy, um, on his part, and, and
16:36when we finally got it, it didn't take, it only took a couple tries, but there was a lot of,
16:43you know, celebration.
16:44Like, I'm lying on the floor with an axe sticking out of my chest, and everyone's cheering, you know, because,
16:49because he had nailed the, the hit.
16:51So, that was a really funny moment, actually.
16:53Amazing.
16:54Mm-hmm.
16:54Um, the last time you were recognized in public, and what happened?
16:59Oh, there was, on a flight recently, it was about three hours into the flight, I was sleeping against the
17:07window, and I just felt this finger poking me in the back.
17:12And so, I turned around, and there's this woman there, and, and she says, uh, she says, I know you
17:21from something, but I can't remember what.
17:25Can I get a picture?
17:26Um, and I just put my, your phone back in, and just went back to sleep.
17:33Like, I don't mind taking a picture, but, you know, you have to figure out what you know you're from.
17:38Yeah, yeah, like, just do some Googling, or search your memory banks.
17:42Yeah, there's this amazing, there's this amazing meme of this little kid who's like,
17:46everybody says that this guy is famous, can you help me figure out who it is?
17:50And he's posted a picture of him with Nick Cave in the background.
17:54Hilarious.
17:55And it's, yeah, it's so funny.
17:56That's perfect.
17:57He's in on the joke, you know.
17:58Exactly.
17:59Yeah.
18:00Um, uh, worst audition experience?
18:03There's too many.
18:05That's what everybody says.
18:06Seriously, they all come, they all come, it's like a chorus of terrible audition experiences.
18:11It's almost impossible to pick the very worst one, I think.
18:15Like, it's just, like, different degrees of humiliation or failure.
18:19Right.
18:20So, yeah.
18:21But that's, like, a big, I mean, you know, what everybody says is that, you know,
18:25people who are successful in life have so many more failures than successes.
18:30I mean, people remember the successes.
18:32Like, in your own life, in everybody's career, in the batting average of a home run hitter,
18:39people remember the home runs and not the strikeouts.
18:41Completely.
18:42Yeah.
18:42Yeah.
18:43And you have to, yeah, you learn to,
18:46just put it behind you when one doesn't go so well.
18:50Yeah.
18:50It's part of the job.
18:51It's part of the job is being confident in your failures,
18:55knowing that they're not, they are not what makes you who you are.
18:59Exactly.
19:00It's the success.
19:00Yeah, exactly.
19:01Well, thank you.
19:02You seem like a very even-tempered person.
19:04Oh, thanks.
19:05Thank you so much.
19:06Yeah.
19:06Well, thank you so much for being with us.
19:08The show is Mr. Robot on USA.
19:10Indeed.
19:10Yeah, it was nice talking to you.