- 7 hours ago
Ridley Scott, Jason Blum and Eric Fellner also sat down to discuss their recent films.
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Short filmTranscript
00:00:06Welcome to Close Up with The Hollywood Reporter, the producers.
00:00:09I'm Matthew Bellany, Editorial Director of The Hollywood Reporter, and I'd like to welcome
00:00:13our guests today. Judd Apatow, Eric Fellner, Ridley Scott, Seth Rogen, Amy Pascal, and
00:00:20Jason Blum. All right, so we live in a very politically charged time, and we are living
00:00:27in an age with more media available than anything in the history of the world. I'd like to know
00:00:33if you guys think that film can still have a social impact, and if so, how? We'll start
00:00:40with Judd. Well, that's a good question. I don't think there's any way to really know.
00:00:44How I think about it is Jon Stewart's work and South Park's work, I think, has led to
00:00:50a younger generation thinking about things differently, maybe being more tolerant. So
00:00:55if you're a kid, and you've watched people like Jon Stewart and Trevor Noah make fun
00:01:00of people who are prejudiced, and people who treat people bad are just bullshitters, you
00:01:04might begin to form your way of reading the news. But I don't know if one movie rocks the
00:01:10world in such a way that people... I don't think that's happening.
00:01:17But I do hope that if people see The Big Sick, they might think, oh, I don't know...
00:01:39...party for a movie. But I do think that... I think The Big Sick is a great example of a
00:01:43movie that opens your...
00:01:48...very, very important that way. Obviously, I think Get Out is. But I think everyone's
00:01:51movies at this table, I mean, a movie about this critical moment and how Churchill, you
00:01:56know, was leading the world, makes people think about things differently. So I really
00:02:00do think movies are super relevant and get people to think about social issues in a different
00:02:05way. And obviously, I think that about Get Out.
00:02:07One of my favorite things that Jordan always says about Get Out is that when you come into
00:02:11the movie, white people might relate to Alison more and black people might relate to Daniel
00:02:16more. But by the end of the movie, everyone is on the same side. That's probably my favorite
00:02:21thing about the movie. I think that's so important.
00:02:23How about The Post? I mean, obviously, you're dropping this movie into a very politically divided
00:02:29audience. And there's a lot of discussion of the media and the role of the media. And what
00:02:34do you hope to achieve with The Post?
00:02:35Well, I think the great thing about The Post is it's about the awakening of Catherine Graham,
00:02:42a woman who was somebody's daughter and somebody's wife and somebody's mother who never had a
00:02:49job in her life, whose husband kills himself. And all of a sudden, she is now running this newspaper.
00:02:57And it's about the moment where you make a decision and you become a completely different
00:03:02person. And I think that the movie is hopefully in a long tradition of movies that celebrates
00:03:11people that take a risk. Those are all the movies that we loved when we were growing up.
00:03:17I was growing up. They made me want to be who I still want to be. Movies always inspired me
00:03:24and
00:03:24characters always inspired me. I hope that's still true.
00:03:27You asked the question about whether we're relevant in the conversation.
00:03:30Yeah.
00:03:31And I think we have to be, I think, in relation to all the other media that's out there. And
00:03:35I think
00:03:35movies, as these guys have said, can absolutely change or push a conversation, but only if they're
00:03:41good. And if they're not good, if we're not all making good movies, then people are going to migrate
00:03:45away from going to the cinema.
00:03:47And also, if we're not, if we don't care about that and we're not doing that, then who's going to?
00:03:53Seth, what inspires you? What causes you to say, yes, I have to do this?
00:03:58Um, a few things. One is some sort of idea that I heavily relate to in some way. It just,
00:04:04it takes a long time to work on these things often. And so something that I have some emotional
00:04:09connection to, something that I would go see, um, that I'd probably be angry if I saw that someone
00:04:16else made. And I was like, why didn't I make that? That, that's something that drives me a lot is
00:04:20jealousy, uh, of my peers. Um, we try to make things that have some real element of risk to
00:04:26them. And I think that is, you know, I think with things like the big sick, honestly, also is like
00:04:32one of the things I've heard the most about it is how it's inspiring to see ideas that you wouldn't
00:04:38think, you know, are starring the type of person that you would normally see in a movie or about the
00:04:42type of thing that you would normally see a movie about or have jokes that you couldn't believe you
00:04:48would ever see in a movie or just content that you wouldn't believe you would see in a movie.
00:04:51And I think those types of things to me are, are honestly some of the most exciting things where
00:04:55when people, and you feel it are in a movie theater and they're kind of looking at the person
00:05:00beside them being like, I kind of can't believe this is even in a movie in some way. And that
00:05:05can be
00:05:06like an umbrella thing with the movie or just little moments within the movie. But those,
00:05:10those are the things that I get most excited by when people really are watching something that
00:05:15they're surprised they're seeing and that they're surprised they're liking it. And I think that's the
00:05:20kind of stuff that makes people want to express themselves themselves. They see something that
00:05:25they're like, Oh, I can talk about that. I can be in movies if I look like this, or if
00:05:29I'm
00:05:29from this part of the world, I can succeed, even though everything is telling me I can't.
00:05:35I think that's the kind of stuff that I like in movies.
00:05:39Ridley, what inspires you?
00:05:40I think you guys have said it all.
00:05:43I'm a newshound. One of your biggest difficulties, apart from doing historic films about things
00:05:49in the past, which are inspiration. Inspiration tends to ring a bell on, on history. I like to feel,
00:05:58and I'm always looking for something that is now or slightly ahead of the game. So you can actually
00:06:03lasso that and maybe it's a good warning system. That's why we're talking about this little guy
00:06:08in North Korea. What do you do?
00:06:11I think it's so, I do think it's hard to have this conversation and not talk about the technical
00:06:14aspect of movies versus TV, if that was, you know, and then I think that windowing, and I don't really,
00:06:21my opinion about windowing has changed a million times, but definitely the fact that it still exists
00:06:27is driving people to television. And so, so the, the actual question about windowing,
00:06:33you mean the fact that movies are in theaters for, you know, movies are in theaters for four months
00:06:37before you can see it at home and people don't want to leave their house because their entertainment
00:06:40systems are so good and so cheap. And it's a self-fulfilling thing because now the content in
00:06:46your house has gotten better and better. There's more money being invested in it. So it's,
00:06:49so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. So I have a theory that when, if windowing collapses, the 90 to 200,
00:06:57you know, 90 to 120 minute format, the movie format will become more relevant again.
00:07:03Interesting.
00:07:04I don't mean to sound righteous or anything, but everybody at this table makes really good movies
00:07:10and has, I've just started being a producer, but these guys have all made movies.
00:07:14You made a lot of movies. It counts. It counts.
00:07:17Does that count?
00:07:17Yes, it does. You made more movies than anybody here.
00:07:20I know, but I do.
00:07:20When you're dating someone for a long time and then you get married.
00:07:22It counts. It counts. It counts more.
00:07:25No, I never thought it counted.
00:07:26Well, it does.
00:07:27Okay. It's a lot harder producing them. I can tell you that.
00:07:31But I think that studios are afraid to make certain kinds of movies. That stuff ends up on television.
00:07:37Everybody then makes things that are good for television and commercial for movie theaters.
00:07:43I think that's, I don't think that we can let that happen.
00:07:45I think it's a product that television and streaming television is a black hole of need for product.
00:07:53As a result, a lot of these services, they need so much stuff that they have to get out of
00:08:02the way.
00:08:03Right.
00:08:03And so they're willing to take chances. And something has happened, which I've noticed in TV, you know, just from
00:08:08being in it for a very long time, is that there's now a profit motive in taking chances in television.
00:08:14And there isn't a movie.
00:08:15And it used to be lowest common denominator.
00:08:18Yeah, right.
00:08:18And now it's like, how far can you go?
00:08:21Right.
00:08:21And the movies haven't found a way to have that profit motive.
00:08:25Your movie is the example of, oh, we can do this at this price and it can make this much
00:08:30money.
00:08:30And they need to place more bets that way. But their main bets are, does this work in China and
00:08:36Russia?
00:08:37And so that, you know, that knocks out most of the movies that a lot of us want to make.
00:08:42Right.
00:08:42Because a lot of great movies, you know, they're not built for that.
00:08:46They're not built for that.
00:08:47The thing about that is who decides that, who pre-decides that and supersedes the creative instinct.
00:08:53Yeah.
00:08:53And the creative instinct constantly gets quashed unless you get into a position where you can argue and say, I'm
00:08:58going to do this.
00:08:59But there aren't many like that because everyone wants to get this film, a film going, and you're inevitably going
00:09:06to be watered down by hierarchy.
00:09:08Right. But that's why I think we should all, to your point of making quality movies, I think, it's going
00:09:15to be maybe slightly controversial, but the way to combat that is to bring the cost of the movie down.
00:09:20I agree with that.
00:09:20As soon as you pull the cost down.
00:09:22How does that affect my fee?
00:09:24It affects your, you look very well, you just get paid after the movie comes out.
00:09:27I agree.
00:09:28But if you pull the price down of the movie, it doesn't matter about writing. It doesn't matter who's in
00:09:32the movie.
00:09:33Well, the truth is, you've got to actually tackle the union on that one because I'm still very much in.
00:09:38Very much in advertising with the 60 directors.
00:09:42And we're constantly can't shoot here like you can't shoot films in Los Angeles because you can't afford to.
00:09:49He does.
00:09:50We make every, we make Get Out for four and a half million dollars.
00:09:53You're non-union.
00:09:54We're all union.
00:09:55We're a union signatory.
00:09:57Okay.
00:09:58We make our movies in 21 days.
00:09:59So how do you manage to do that?
00:10:00We make our movies in 21 days.
00:10:01We take no producing fee and all the above the line is zero.
00:10:04What qualifies you to not, to be within union and have under crew?
00:10:08He has his own rules.
00:10:09No, no, no, I don't have my own rules.
00:10:10Don't you have a low budget deal with it?
00:10:11It's just a cheap movie.
00:10:13It's tier one, union.
00:10:15So it's the price of the film.
00:10:16Yeah.
00:10:17The price of the film.
00:10:18Every movie that we do is five million bucks.
00:10:19And I don't do that.
00:10:20It's great that they're profitable.
00:10:21That's not why we do it.
00:10:22We do it for all the reasons we're talking about.
00:10:24How do you make edgy, different stuff and not have to cast so-and-so, not have to please
00:10:30so-and-so?
00:10:32The worst outcome of this is if Ridley agrees with you.
00:10:35No, no, no.
00:10:37I disagree.
00:10:38He starts making five million dollar movies.
00:10:41They'd still be good.
00:10:42They'd be incredible.
00:10:43Make a movie with us.
00:10:45Well, I mean, we make movies exclusively that are the exact type of movies everyone says
00:10:50they don't make any more, which are like those mid-budget 30, 20, 20 to $35 million movies
00:10:56that have enough money where we can do what we need, but essentially work backwards from
00:11:01like, what's the number where you'll leave us alone?
00:11:03And to us, I think the budget is as much a creative decision as anything else.
00:11:08Like you are setting your own parameters and we just know if it's this much, they'll
00:11:13expect this.
00:11:14If it's this much, they'll expect this.
00:11:16And as long as we keep it in this range, we'll be able to do whatever we want and we
00:11:20will have the resources that we need.
00:11:23And as long as the movies are good and we are in some way able to stay afloat, then they'll
00:11:27let us keep doing it.
00:11:29There's only one person at this table who can qualify to answer this question.
00:11:33If.
00:11:33Because you were head of a studio.
00:11:36Yeah.
00:11:36And that's the hardest single thing to do because you've got to read God knows what
00:11:41by, from Friday to Monday, make decisions on next week and decide to put your money on
00:11:46black.
00:11:47And you can be right or you can be wrong.
00:11:49Yes.
00:11:49That's the hardest thing.
00:11:50I agree with you.
00:11:52And you're wrong plenty.
00:11:53I am.
00:11:54When you get swamped.
00:11:55But if you are afraid of being wrong and if you're afraid of people saying you were wrong,
00:12:01what an idiot, why did they do that, then it's a really rough job.
00:12:05You can't be afraid of being wrong.
00:12:06You can't be afraid of being wrong.
00:12:09You can't be afraid of the public humiliation of everyone saying you don't know what you're
00:12:14doing.
00:12:14You can't.
00:12:15You can't be driven by that.
00:12:17You have to be driven by what you actually want to see.
00:12:20But if the movies are low budget, it's easier to be wrong.
00:12:25I've been wrong on every level.
00:12:27But it is relative.
00:12:28I mean, you've done brilliantly in creating this niche of that number.
00:12:33As Seth was saying, it can be other numbers as well where you can still be very safe, you
00:12:37know, in the $15 to $20 million range, if you've got something that can do some international
00:12:40business and you've got the TV output deals.
00:12:44I agree.
00:12:44So there can be levels.
00:12:46But you're totally right about making sure the costs are as low as possible.
00:12:49Seth and I made a lot of movies together.
00:12:51You greenlit Superbad.
00:12:53I did.
00:12:54And that was...
00:12:55And Pineapple Express.
00:12:56And this is the end.
00:12:57And Toss the Party, actually.
00:12:58We had a lot of success for the very reason that Seth is talking about, because people
00:13:03wanted to see things that were different.
00:13:04And people wanted to see things that they didn't think they were going to see in movie
00:13:07theaters.
00:13:08And witness the movies that are working now.
00:13:11It's the same thing.
00:13:13Which you made happen.
00:13:16All these kinds of movies, when people get something good and they get something different,
00:13:20I am a believer that they're going to go.
00:13:22They're going to go.
00:13:22I believe it.
00:13:23I do.
00:13:24I always have.
00:13:25I want to talk a little bit about creative process, because we said you greenlit Superbad,
00:13:29and you guys have collaborated on that.
00:13:31I've collaborated with everybody.
00:13:33Dave.
00:13:34Happily.
00:13:35What is the creative collaboration process like between Seth Rogen and Judd Apatow?
00:13:41I mean, at the time, it was very...
00:13:43You know, we had never written a movie that had been made.
00:13:46And we were very young and very much in the thing we were trying to write about.
00:13:52And admittedly, did not fully have the perspective, I think, required to make the movie as well-rounded
00:14:00as it ultimately was.
00:14:02And we, for sure, used some coaxing from Judd to really explore the thing that we had written
00:14:09about.
00:14:09You know?
00:14:10So, like, we were, when we first started working on it together, like, I was, like, 19 or 20.
00:14:14And it was about, like, 18-year-olds, basically.
00:14:17Right.
00:14:17And so, and me and Evan, my partner, had just split up, which is what the movie was about.
00:14:22And he was in college, and I was in L.A.
00:14:23And, like, we were literally experiencing the things the movies were about.
00:14:26And so, it really took Judd, you know, saying, like, you need to lean more into this stuff.
00:14:31Like, to us, it was a little raw, basically.
00:14:35And, but he was very supportive.
00:14:37And we were treated the way that writers would want to be treated.
00:14:41And we were very happy with, you know, the dynamic.
00:14:44And it's something that we think of today.
00:14:47Honestly, when we're dealing with writers and we're producing things that have a strong vision
00:14:51for what they're doing, we look back and think, like, how did Judd treat us when we were making
00:14:55Superbad?
00:14:55Like, it was, it was only a helpful process.
00:14:59We felt very nurtured.
00:15:00He pushed us very far and hard to explore things.
00:15:03But at the same time, I remember, at the end of the day, he was like, it's your script
00:15:07and you can do what you want.
00:15:08Which was contrary to the TV show I was working on with you, where I remember being like,
00:15:12do I have to listen to all these notes?
00:15:14And you were like, yeah, you gotta listen to them.
00:15:16And I was like, oh, but it's different with the movie we're working on, because those are
00:15:20two different dynamics.
00:15:21Why did you think this guy was a movie star?
00:15:23Look at him.
00:15:24He's a movie star.
00:15:26I put my money on Blume.
00:15:31Well, we all met Seth when he was 16 years old.
00:15:35And so it's amazing to be at the table here with Seth as a producer.
00:15:38That's nice.
00:15:39It's a wonderful thing.
00:15:41And very early, we thought, oh, this is an interesting guy.
00:15:45We auditioned him for Freaks and Geeks.
00:15:46I got a tape.
00:15:48And I remember looking at it and just thinking Seth was hilarious.
00:15:51And I just thought, this is a really weird dude.
00:15:55And then when we started working on the show, we realized there was a very soulful person
00:15:59underneath his gruff exterior.
00:16:00And he was a great improviser.
00:16:02And we asked him to write for the TV show Undeclared after Freaks and Geeks got canceled.
00:16:06And then we table read Superbad years before it was made.
00:16:12It took a long time to get it made.
00:16:13No one wanted to make it.
00:16:14And the funniest part about it, which we always talk about, is that for a while there was a producer
00:16:18working with us.
00:16:20Yes.
00:16:20And he said, yeah, let me try to get it made.
00:16:23And he couldn't.
00:16:24And then he got a job as the head of a studio.
00:16:27And we said, oh, I guess we'll make it now.
00:16:28And he said, no, I'm not going to make it.
00:16:34It was shocking.
00:16:36But Amy was the only person in town.
00:16:39It got turned down by every financier at every budget level.
00:16:43There were people who said, what if we did it for like a million dollars?
00:16:46And they're like, no.
00:16:48And I believe after Talladega Nights came out and we were in a groove of doing some great work for
00:16:55Sony.
00:16:55Yeah.
00:16:56One day Amy said, let's just do Superbad.
00:16:58And then the same for Pineapple Express, when no one in town had any interest at all.
00:17:04Yeah, but it's like Judd and Seth.
00:17:08You just believe in people that you believe in.
00:17:11And when you beat people who are good at what they do, you let them do it.
00:17:16That's how it works.
00:17:17That's how it's supposed to work.
00:17:18But I want to say one more thing just about Judd for one second.
00:17:22I also remember that he called me into, I don't know where,
00:17:26where he ran over to my office and said, you've got to see this girl that we're casting as Jonah's
00:17:31girlfriend.
00:17:32You've got to see this girl.
00:17:33She's something.
00:17:34And it was Emma Stone.
00:17:37And he's like, she's it.
00:17:39She's going to be a star.
00:17:40Wow.
00:17:40And he is one of the best spotters of talent.
00:17:43Wow.
00:17:43How do you choose?
00:17:45You must be inundated with people that want to work with you now.
00:17:47I'm not at all.
00:17:48That's the funniest thing.
00:17:51I'm always looking.
00:17:52No one sends me anything.
00:17:54I don't need to write the scripts I direct.
00:17:56Nobody sends me anything.
00:17:58I'm always shocked at how little mail I get.
00:18:01I'm sending you a script this afternoon.
00:18:03You won't be out here this afternoon.
00:18:05But, you know, there's no answer to it, really.
00:18:08You just see people, you know, when we're doing Superbad.
00:18:11You know, Seth and I and Evan Goldberg and Mottola, we're looking at people.
00:18:16And all of us together are going, well, that's the girl who's so cool,
00:18:20who would have been nice to us in high school, even though we were weird.
00:18:24And you just have a feeling.
00:18:27With McLevin, you know, we just said, oh, that kid.
00:18:30That was a good movie.
00:18:31Chris McLevin's boss is hilarious.
00:18:32A great movie.
00:18:33No way to know why.
00:18:34My favorite Amy story is we made Pineapple Express,
00:18:37and we had very little input from the studio, which was wonderful.
00:18:41And we were at a test screening for the movie,
00:18:43and it was playing really, really, really well.
00:18:45And Amy was sitting beside me, and she leaned over to me five minutes into the movie,
00:18:49and she goes, now I get this.
00:18:52I was like, you let us make it.
00:18:54And she's like, I know, and I'm glad.
00:18:56Because now I get it.
00:18:57And I was like, wow, like, she let us get this far without getting it.
00:19:02And, like, and you would never have had any indication that she didn't get it.
00:19:06Like, she just let us do it.
00:19:07And I learned from John Kelly.
00:19:10Isn't the hardest thing, though, running a studio,
00:19:11I always think the hardest thing would be to say.
00:19:12Oh, God, did this become about running a studio?
00:19:13Well, no, but I'm just curious.
00:19:15Interesting.
00:19:15The hardest thing, I would think, is not saying yes,
00:19:19but saying the amount of times you have to say no.
00:19:21And when you spend all this money in development,
00:19:22and you have these amazing creative people,
00:19:24and everything is incredible, and then you have to say no.
00:19:27I mean, isn't that what's the hardest thing?
00:19:29Yeah, I mean, and I'm not that good at it.
00:19:31So I kind of wander around, you know.
00:19:35That's the funniest part of the Sony hack,
00:19:37is when all my emails went public,
00:19:39they were all just emails of Amy and Doug Belgrad saying no to me.
00:19:44You want to tell him no?
00:19:46He's crazy.
00:19:47A sequel to Pineapple Express for $50 million?
00:19:50No.
00:19:52I know.
00:19:53That's hilarious.
00:19:55Having worked together so much and had such success,
00:19:58what did you guys learn from the hack?
00:20:01About each other and about the world?
00:20:03We're closer than we've ever been.
00:20:06I learned that there are true blue people in our business
00:20:11who stick up for you and are with you through anything.
00:20:16And what did you learn?
00:20:18Yeah, I mean, a lot.
00:20:20Like, it was a real interesting, I mean, what did I learn?
00:20:25Don't do it again.
00:20:27Yeah, I wish it had another set piece in the third act, honestly.
00:20:32I have some creative thoughts.
00:20:35Maybe for the sequel.
00:20:37You know, I still use facts.
00:20:40Steve Jobs used facts.
00:20:42I still use facts.
00:20:43Because a fax, you receive a piece of paper, I get it,
00:20:46I write on it and fax it back, and it's entirely confidential.
00:20:50I love a fax.
00:20:50Email is everywhere in a heartbeat.
00:20:53So I never put anything on email I'm going to be embarrassed about.
00:20:56I wish I could send six.
00:20:57I know.
00:20:59I'm still getting emails from Amy where I'm like,
00:21:01what are you doing?
00:21:13Ridley, what attracted you to the Getty story?
00:21:16Good script.
00:21:16I didn't develop it.
00:21:18There's two good scripts that have landed in my lap over the years.
00:21:21Actually, three.
00:21:22Alien was very good, and I was fifth choice.
00:21:24They gave it to Robert Altman.
00:21:27Oh, that would have been a weird one.
00:21:31What are you doing?
00:21:32I can do this.
00:21:33The other one was American Gangster.
00:21:34It was Steve Zillian.
00:21:35He said, listen, this thing's been sitting on the bloody shelf for five years.
00:21:38Read it.
00:21:39Please tell me I'm not crazy.
00:21:41I went, wow.
00:21:42So we made that.
00:21:44And then the same thing happened to me from Scarpa.
00:21:48Great script.
00:21:49Great material.
00:21:52You used to be a spy.
00:21:56My child is a prisoner.
00:21:58$17 million.
00:21:59All they will take is I, is ear, the hand, and don't tell me you don't have the money.
00:22:05Who was it that said that was Hitchcock?
00:22:07It's all about the script, script, script.
00:22:08Yeah.
00:22:08It's all about the goddamn script.
00:22:10The thing about writers are, there's a few writers at this table, and I can write, but
00:22:14I can't write as well as you guys, so I can afford the people like you guys.
00:22:20So why should I do that?
00:22:21I'd rather make movies.
00:22:22But, you know, it's all in the written word.
00:22:25I know within a paragraph whether I'm going to be in good hands or not.
00:22:30By the time I get to page 10, I'm beginning to perspire because I'm thinking, please don't
00:22:34drop the ball.
00:22:35Please don't drop the ball.
00:22:36Page 30, I'm now beads of perspiration.
00:22:38Holy shit, you're really getting there.
00:22:40And so writing is everything.
00:22:42It is everything.
00:22:43Everything else is dressing.
00:22:45Well, when we did The Big Sick, they worked on that script for three years, and no one bought
00:22:50it.
00:22:50They weren't getting paid.
00:22:52We just thought it was a good idea and a very difficult idea to execute well because a lot
00:22:57of it takes place in a hospital.
00:22:58There's something kind of dark and sad about a woman in a coma.
00:23:01The immigrant experience in America wasn't something that you felt like the world was dying to have
00:23:06a movie about.
00:23:07So, 9-11.
00:23:14No, I mean, I've always wanted to have a conversation about it.
00:23:24You've never talked to people about 9-11?
00:23:27For three years, they worked really hard to crack all those problems.
00:23:32Like, how do you make this interesting?
00:23:33How do you make this funny?
00:23:34How do you make people care about this?
00:23:36But I feel like so many movies are rushed.
00:23:38And the one thing I think that we are pretty good about is just not going into production if we're
00:23:44not feeling great about the script.
00:23:45That was true of Get Out, too.
00:23:46It was around for a long time.
00:23:48The movies get to us.
00:23:49They go around.
00:23:50And at $10 million, we don't look at them.
00:23:52Then they're going to $8 million.
00:23:52When the budget gets to $5 million, we start to see the scripts.
00:23:56You know, I wanted to say something about The Post because I bought the script that Liz Hanna wrote.
00:24:02She got inspired and sat down on her kitchen table and wrote a script.
00:24:07And she didn't have an agent.
00:24:09And I was lucky enough to have somebody very enterprising that worked at my company who stole it out of
00:24:13somebody's hands and gave it to me.
00:24:15And the movie was there.
00:24:17Whatever else needed to happen to the movie, the movie was there.
00:24:21And to echo what Ridley said, you know immediately if it's a movie.
00:24:26You do.
00:24:27It's usually from the names that they call the characters.
00:24:29And you can be like, oh, no.
00:24:32It's the names.
00:24:33Isn't it the name?
00:24:33The name may never be spoken during the entire bloody movie.
00:24:37But you agonize over the names.
00:24:39And it's right there.
00:24:40Oh, holy shit.
00:24:41Okay.
00:24:42Already, you're two out of ten.
00:24:43It's going to work.
00:24:45I have a question about Aaron Sorkin.
00:24:47Yes.
00:24:47Because you worked with him for many years as a writer.
00:24:50Yes.
00:24:50What was the experience like working with him as a director?
00:24:53The transition from him being a writer to him being a director was seamless.
00:24:59You know, immediately, you know, Mark Gordon and I would go visit him on the set of Molly's Game.
00:25:04And he'd go, hey, guys, you don't need to be here.
00:25:07And we didn't.
00:25:08For what it's worth, if we went to trial, you would have to hand over the forensic image and then
00:25:12discovery.
00:25:13But that's different than voluntarily handing it over.
00:25:15Sure.
00:25:15But it's not really voluntary anymore when the alternative is prison.
00:25:19And that's what they're going to recommend in 42 months.
00:25:25Why do you keep breaking eye contact with me?
00:25:27I'm looking right at you.
00:25:29You think I should do it?
00:25:31You've got to let me keep you out of prison.
00:25:33He kind of directs as a writer.
00:25:35Yeah.
00:25:37He surely does.
00:25:38He directs from the page.
00:25:39Yeah.
00:25:39I mean, no, well, I was in a movie he wrote and I was like, the whole time I was
00:25:42like, why are you not directing this?
00:25:44You clearly have very specific visions of how.
00:25:47And that's what we said to him when we got the script.
00:25:49He's like, well, let's get the best director.
00:25:50But I think the great writers, Eric Roth once said to me, I said, why don't you try directing?
00:25:55He said, well, I do.
00:25:56And what he's saying, every time I've written the script, I have actually directed it.
00:26:01That's interesting.
00:26:01Because it all happens in your head.
00:26:02Yeah.
00:26:03If it doesn't, you ain't got a script.
00:26:04Yeah.
00:26:05You can feel it.
00:26:06That's interesting.
00:26:06I once wrote a Terry Southern quote that it's the job of the director to destroy the vision of the
00:26:10writer.
00:26:12Always.
00:26:13Always.
00:26:17I have a question for Eric.
00:26:19Eric, between Darkest Hour and Dunkirk, we've seen these big World War II movies.
00:26:23Why do you think these movies are resonating in this time right now?
00:26:27I think the design of them both being made in the same year is purely coincidental.
00:26:34But I think that there's a lot going on politically and socially that people can buy into.
00:26:40There's little Nazis back.
00:26:42Yeah.
00:26:43I mean, it's...
00:26:43But you said there's what?
00:26:44There's little Nazis back.
00:26:46It's relevant.
00:26:47I'll over again.
00:26:47You're totally right.
00:26:48That's true.
00:26:49Yeah.
00:26:50It's, you know, there's nationalism everywhere.
00:26:52There's hate and bigotry everywhere.
00:26:54And people are starting to notice and go, you know what?
00:26:57We maybe need to stand up.
00:26:59Yeah.
00:26:59And, you know, that's what Churchill did in 1940.
00:27:04And he got a lot of things wrong, but he got the big thing right.
00:27:07Yeah.
00:27:07And that was, you've got to stand up to this kind of oppression.
00:27:10And hopefully that's what will resonate today with audiences.
00:27:13I believe we are to meet regularly.
00:27:17Once a week, I'm afraid.
00:27:19How is...
00:27:22How are you for Mondays?
00:27:24I shall endeavor to be available on Mondays.
00:27:28Four o'clock?
00:27:29I nap at four.
00:27:32Is that permissible?
00:27:35No, but necessary.
00:27:37I work late.
00:27:38And perhaps lunchtime.
00:27:41Lunch.
00:27:42There's been a lot of talk about whether the creative community is going to respond to the current political climate.
00:27:48But I'm curious about what you think of audiences and whether audiences have an altered desire for certain types of
00:27:54stories in a political environment like this.
00:27:57Do you think that?
00:27:58I don't know.
00:27:59I go both ways on it because I think in some ways people want to break.
00:28:04And they just want to escape into something else.
00:28:07Because we're all consuming so much news and also so much satire.
00:28:11Whether we're watching Samantha Bee or Seth Meyers every night.
00:28:14We're getting a lot of, I guess you would call it entertainment, but very serious-minded comedy about what's happening.
00:28:21And it takes years for that to turn into movies.
00:28:25And things are happening so fast.
00:28:27I'm not sure how quickly we can catch up to affect what's happening every day.
00:28:32And also, it's got to be, I think, for an audience, it's got to be a great story.
00:28:36And if the story is great and you want to be with those characters, it doesn't matter whether it's got
00:28:41a social message or not.
00:28:42If it's hidden in there somewhere, that's great.
00:28:44And they'll pick it out when they want it.
00:28:45But I think if you go in over the top with a message movie, I think you're done.
00:28:49I completely agree with that.
00:28:50I mean, the big chill.
00:28:51I didn't make the big chill.
00:28:53Let's talk about the big chill.
00:28:54I just told the first two words of it.
00:28:56But, you know, the big sick premiered at Sundance the day of the inauguration.
00:29:01So we weren't thinking about any of this when we were making the movie.
00:29:04And then suddenly the Trump thing became very real.
00:29:08And there was, you know, all of this talk about how Mexicans are rapists and not wanting to let people
00:29:13into the country.
00:29:14And suddenly the movie felt like it had some resonance around these issues.
00:29:18But all we were trying to do was humanize these people who live in the United States.
00:29:22And suddenly that became a political act of some kind.
00:29:25But it wasn't what we were thinking about while we made it.
00:29:28But even just as an audience member of your movie, it wasn't even necessarily about it.
00:29:33It was just a great story about human issues.
00:29:36And that's where I came in on it.
00:29:38And then it was like, oh, my God, it's really interesting what's going on.
00:29:40But it's people who are not presented ever in the culture.
00:29:43Their lives aren't humanized.
00:29:45So it's weird for people to go, oh, that's how all these people live in our country.
00:29:50I'm just seeing the Fox News version of I should be terrified of these people.
00:29:54I'm not seeing that they're just like me.
00:29:55And they're just going about their lives trying to be happy.
00:29:58And the zeitgeist comes after.
00:30:00Like I'm sure with Get Out, you know, it was right in the zone of what was going on in
00:30:03the world.
00:30:04But when you started that movie a year ago, you know, you weren't necessarily thinking about that.
00:30:08Jordan, I think Jordan, I mean, I think Jordan was, you know, racism never.
00:30:13Racism is pretty public for quite a while.
00:30:16But to Eric's point, it's very different and much worse now than it was two or three years ago.
00:30:22Much worse.
00:30:23And Jordan describes Get Out when he first conceived of the idea.
00:30:28He described it as the African-American, a black man's nightmare.
00:30:34Literally a nightmare of a black man living in America.
00:30:37Yeah.
00:30:38What would surprise people about Jordan?
00:30:41Jordan, in his personality, he comes off as very easygoing.
00:30:47And he's easygoing in that he was a great partner and terrific to work with and very amenable.
00:30:51But he definitely has an incredibly strong point of view.
00:30:55The original trailer that we wanted to do, and when I say we, I say myself and my partners at
00:31:01Universal,
00:31:01we wanted to have the moment of the dangling keys in the trailer.
00:31:05And Jordan is a first-time director.
00:31:06And he now has a studio that's about to spend $30 million opening his $4.5 million movie.
00:31:11And I was completely in alignment with Josh and Michael saying, you have to put this moment with the keys
00:31:16in the trailer.
00:31:17And technically, we could do whatever we wanted.
00:31:20And the first time we said it, you know, he didn't have a fit.
00:31:23He just said, guys, I think it's a mistake, but, you know, let's go through the process.
00:31:27We tested it within.
00:31:29We tested it without.
00:31:29The results came back saying, you know, we really should leave it in.
00:31:33Went on for four weeks.
00:31:34He let the process happen.
00:31:36And at the end of the process, it was never contentious.
00:31:39He never raised his voice.
00:31:40And he just said, guys, I appreciate all the thoughtfulness that you've done.
00:31:45We can't put that moment in the trailer.
00:31:47And we didn't.
00:31:47And he was dead right.
00:31:49And it never happened with a fight.
00:31:51And for a first-time director to make a studio change, a key piece of marketing, which, by the way,
00:31:56I was on the side of the studio.
00:31:58He comes at things softly, but he has a super, super serious point of view and a super strong vision.
00:32:04And he makes it happen without World War III happening around it, which is incredibly unusual.
00:32:10Good to see another brother around here.
00:32:16Yes.
00:32:17Of course it is.
00:32:21Something wrong?
00:32:24There you are.
00:32:27Can you do something with this?
00:32:28Yes, yes.
00:32:30Oh, hello.
00:32:31I'm Philomena.
00:32:32And you are?
00:32:35Chris.
00:32:35Rose's boyfriend.
00:32:37Chris was just telling me how he felt much more comfortable with my being here.
00:32:41Now, you guys were open about changing, you changed the ending of that film.
00:32:46Jordan, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:32:47We wanted to change the end.
00:32:49But that was a similar situation where the movie ended initially and the lead character went to jail.
00:32:56It was just Jordan and I were at that test screening.
00:32:58And I didn't hold back.
00:32:59I just said, you can't, we can't, you can't leave him.
00:33:01You can't leave him in jail.
00:33:03We just fell in love with this guy.
00:33:05And then I felt badly for saying it like that.
00:33:07That's how Baby Driver ends.
00:33:11We should have come to see you.
00:33:15But I am curious about that fact and changes that are made to films.
00:33:20And I'm curious, Ridley, you know, in your career, have you changed a film or changed an ending that you...
00:33:26Continually.
00:33:27Really?
00:33:27I mean, usually the one that's on a ladder said to me, do the girls really have to drive off
00:33:32the car at the end?
00:33:34I said, think about this.
00:33:36I said, it's a continuation.
00:33:38That's where I froze it in mid-air.
00:33:39Talking about Thelma and Louise.
00:33:40I froze it in mid-air.
00:33:41I couldn't, because I did the shot and the car, of course, stood up right all the way down the
00:33:46hat's throat.
00:33:47It was really fucking depressing.
00:33:52And then I brought that song, great song, and that was it.
00:33:55It's a continuation.
00:33:57She said, shall we?
00:33:58Yes, let's go.
00:33:59And they do that.
00:34:00Laddie, again with Laddie.
00:34:01I've done five films with Laddie.
00:34:03Laddie's very brave.
00:34:04Laddie's very brave.
00:34:05And he always said, that door closes, you're out of there.
00:34:08That's the end of the fucking movie.
00:34:10I said, no, it's not.
00:34:11There's a fifth act inside that shuttle.
00:34:14The motherfucker's in there.
00:34:15And he said, really?
00:34:16I said, yeah.
00:34:17So he listened.
00:34:18He said, how much?
00:34:20So I had a week to do that extra bit, which put the salt and pepper on the end.
00:34:24Are there changes that have been made that you regret?
00:34:29I don't regret anything, no.
00:34:31Don't ask that.
00:34:32I regret everything.
00:34:36It must be an agonizing process.
00:34:38You get one movie, and there's five different ways to end it, or five different ways to do a scene.
00:34:43You've got to pick one.
00:34:43You go back to the script, though, because hopefully you've got it right on paper.
00:34:47Right.
00:34:47But sometimes you don't.
00:34:49Bullshit about the director's cut is all the things that have gone out with me have been fundamentally where it
00:34:54should be.
00:34:54It's always been, I will concede with the studio.
00:34:58If they're right, I'll listen.
00:34:59You know what?
00:35:00Maybe that's right.
00:35:01I don't really listen to, I don't like previews.
00:35:04What do you call them?
00:35:05Test audio?
00:35:06Test screening?
00:35:07I avoid my poison, because I don't think, you're suddenly inviting 22 people to tell you what to do.
00:35:13Are you kidding me?
00:35:14I hate that part, but I love, don't you, I love screening a movie with an audience.
00:35:19What happens after is, is...
00:35:21He loves previews when they go well.
00:35:26But don't you like to see your movies with an audience before you...
00:35:28No.
00:35:29Do it before you lock the picture?
00:35:31You know, it's the same as, are you a critic?
00:35:33I'm not a critic.
00:35:34Okay, fine.
00:35:34God, no.
00:35:35So, I was thrashed, thrashed, 35 years ago.
00:35:41Personally thrashed by a woman called Pauline Kale.
00:35:45Here it comes.
00:35:46In the Hollywood, and it was in the New York Times.
00:35:49New York Times.
00:35:51Very posh.
00:35:52Three and a half pages of destruction.
00:35:53I went, wow.
00:35:54Which movie?
00:35:55Blade Runner.
00:35:56Blade Runner.
00:35:57And I, you know, in those days, an important critic could actually affect and adjust the process.
00:36:03And because of that, the film, it did, not because of it, but the film didn't play.
00:36:07But you know what I learned out of it?
00:36:08I wrote a very polite letter to Ms. Kale, copies to the editor, saying, if you hate something that much,
00:36:17why waste three and a half pages of destruction and negativity?
00:36:21Why not just ignore me or give me a column and a half, saying, terrible?
00:36:25And the problem about journalists, we can't answer back, but you just hate us, we can't meet you in the
00:36:32car park, but you know, we can't answer back.
00:36:35I think that's what's unfair about it.
00:36:36So, what you learn, never read your own press, ever.
00:36:40That's for sure.
00:36:41You do not subscribe to that.
00:36:42I don't.
00:36:43About reading my own press?
00:36:45You seem to obsess over it on Twitter sometimes.
00:36:47I used to, but now there's so many critics.
00:36:50Can you write it?
00:36:50Yeah.
00:36:51I mean, everybody in the world is a critic now.
00:36:54So, you know, there aren't those people who have that power anymore.
00:36:57And when you get, you know, your number on Rotten Tomato, 700 of them are just, like, guys who live
00:37:04in their mom's basements.
00:37:06And so, there are very few people with credibility.
00:37:08That actually means anything.
00:37:09Because now you can fight back, though.
00:37:11That's what we're, I don't know.
00:37:13You've made your movie.
00:37:14That's what you've made.
00:37:16And the critic is then responding to what you've done.
00:37:19So, I don't know.
00:37:20I don't, I don't, I'm interested to hear that you would want to respond to them.
00:37:24Also, it shines a light on the negativity.
00:37:26Well, no, I mean, if you get beaten up.
00:37:28It just hurts, man.
00:37:29It hurts.
00:37:31It just really hurts.
00:37:32It hurts, but that's the business that we're all in.
00:37:35Yeah, but it's hard to deal with that elegantly sometimes, I think.
00:37:39Well, no, it's a bit like, it's a bit like being a writer.
00:37:42Oh, I was a painter for quite a long time.
00:37:45It took it very seriously.
00:37:47And it's walking, every morning you're staring at a canvas.
00:37:51And you're thinking, damn.
00:37:52And because you're already getting into, I like what I see, or I hate what I see, and I'm going
00:37:57to paint it out.
00:37:58That's the process, okay?
00:38:00And therefore, at the end of the day, as a creator, you should only be your own critic.
00:38:03Yeah.
00:38:04And you've got to let that distill.
00:38:06If you listen to other people, I don't do that.
00:38:09Like, right or wrong.
00:38:10That's fair, that's fair.
00:38:11I remember when the cable guy came out, and Warren Beatty said to me, you don't know whether or not
00:38:17you made a good movie for 10 years.
00:38:19He goes, in 10 years, you can look back and go, how did I do?
00:38:23Do you think the interview would be good?
00:38:26Or, or, or, if you look at, my favorite thing is, if you look at, like, the five top grossing
00:38:32movies from 1952, you don't know any of them.
00:38:34And so, the gross, the commercial viability, and the quality of the film have nothing to do with one another.
00:38:40Are you guys good at predicting that, like, from your own movies?
00:38:44Like, I've found, like, I don't know.
00:38:46Like, I find, like, we test our movies.
00:38:49I used to think that was indicative of something.
00:38:51Over the years, now, like, some of the highest testing, now, if they test too well, I'm like, suspicious.
00:38:56I'm like, is it just fucking garbage?
00:38:58Because, is it like the McDonald's of movies?
00:39:01It's just like, oh, everyone loves it.
00:39:02It's great.
00:39:02But then, and then, and then I don't know if it's going to get good reviews or do, like, I
00:39:08find, like, if those are the two things you're tracking the most, I guess, is, like, is it critically received
00:39:12well?
00:39:13And does it financially do well?
00:39:15How do, are you guys good at predicting that?
00:39:17Do you find from your movies?
00:39:18Because I'm not.
00:39:20I'm better at critical than commercial, I think.
00:39:23I mean, I feel like I'm, I feel like I have a better sense if they're going to work critically.
00:39:26Commercially, it's really, you would really never know in either direction.
00:39:30I think, for me, with the, in the international marketplace, it used to be a lot easier.
00:39:34We could get to within 10, 20% in predicting.
00:39:38Really?
00:39:38Yeah.
00:39:39But, you know, six weeks out, eight weeks out.
00:39:41Once we've seen a director's cut, actually, you know, a finished, yeah, a director's cut.
00:39:45But now, it's impossible.
00:39:48Yeah.
00:39:48You know, the rangers, you know, so is he going to do 10 million or 100 million, you know?
00:39:52That's the problem.
00:39:53There's so many films out there.
00:39:53Yeah.
00:39:54There's too many movies.
00:39:55Yeah.
00:39:55Why do you think that?
00:39:56Too many movies being released theatrically?
00:39:58You know, no one wants to learn to be a bricklayer anymore or a, you know?
00:40:03I don't know about you.
00:40:04Too many filmmakers.
00:40:05But, you know, what about the normal jobs, you know?
00:40:10Because we, it sounds like we have a very glamorous job and life.
00:40:14Well, actually, we do.
00:40:15We do.
00:40:16I do 100-hour weeks, right?
00:40:18That's normal for years.
00:40:20So, making a movie that I do is, I love it, but is it challenging?
00:40:26Bloody right, okay?
00:40:27That's why we do it.
00:40:29A lot of people think you just come into this, you're going to be successful.
00:40:31It's like a rock and roll band.
00:40:33Half the successful bands have been playing in the garage since they're 11 years old.
00:40:36You don't just pick up an instrument at 22 and start playing Get Lucky.
00:40:40It's a tough game.
00:40:41I have a question about Franco.
00:40:43Yes.
00:40:43James Franco.
00:40:44How was he as a director?
00:40:46He was great.
00:40:47I mean, it was a very interesting process.
00:40:51I mean, the movie, we made a movie called The Disaster Artist about the making of a movie called The
00:40:55Room.
00:40:56Not Room with Brie Larson, but The Room.
00:40:58That would have been an odd show.
00:41:00That was the worst movie ever made.
00:41:02It's known for being the worst movie of all time.
00:41:04Yes.
00:41:05And it was actually while we were filming the interview that Franco read the book about the making of The
00:41:10Room.
00:41:10And while we were in Vancouver went and saw it for the first time.
00:41:12One of, like, the most interesting ideas about the movie to us was that, like, someone makes a piece of
00:41:18art hoping it's received one way.
00:41:20It is actually received for the exact opposite reasons that you hoped it would.
00:41:26But the result is actually the same.
00:41:28You become famous.
00:41:29People like you.
00:41:30You have movie stars making movies about you.
00:41:32You make money.
00:41:33You make money.
00:41:34You get paid.
00:41:35You get paid.
00:41:36And Franco, as someone who had done a lot of weird art shit throughout his life, constantly being misunderstood, misinterpreted,
00:41:47people thinking that the shit he thought was great was stupid and vice versa.
00:41:51It was incredibly personal to him in a weird way.
00:41:54And he felt this weird kinship with Tommy Wiseau, who's the guy in the movie.
00:41:57So we really wanted to just support him.
00:42:00And he had directed a lot of movies, but none that you would really describe as, like, real movies, I
00:42:06guess you would say.
00:42:06So we got him writers that were incredibly talented, Neustadtter and Weber, who were just great writers.
00:42:12And we really just supported him.
00:42:15He's also the star of the movie, which I know from personal experience of acting and directing is really hard
00:42:20to monitor your own performance and to literally just visually understand what's happening at all times.
00:42:25So we really just tried to support him and talk to him a lot about what we were trying to
00:42:32convey and get across and the type of, you know, moments we were trying to extract from the scenes.
00:42:37There was a lot of improvisation in the movie, but it's not necessarily a comedic movie at all times.
00:42:42So that was also a very interesting process.
00:42:44And he was in character the whole time.
00:42:46So he would direct the movie in character as Tommy Wiseau with the voice in full prosthetic makeup.
00:42:54And there are scenes in the movie where he's directing a movie.
00:42:57So that was, like, really weird because he's directing a movie where he's directing a movie in character directing a
00:43:03movie.
00:43:03But overall, he did a great job.
00:43:05I hear everything.
00:43:07I have ears everywhere.
00:43:08I hear your whispers and your souls.
00:43:10You're on my planet.
00:43:12Okay?
00:43:13Wait, wait.
00:43:13So you've been spying on your entire production?
00:43:15Yeah, that's right.
00:43:16That's fucking crazy.
00:43:18That's how it is.
00:43:19So now you know.
00:43:20Next time you make laughter, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
00:43:23I don't care who you are.
00:43:24You're out on the street.
00:43:26What about me?
00:43:26Am I still fired?
00:43:29All right.
00:43:30I'll give you one more chance.
00:43:33It's like a very honest, sweet movie about someone who takes a big risk and who puts themselves out there
00:43:39and who tries to express themselves and does just in a really kind of the wrong way, basically.
00:43:46Which I think is Franco, in a lot of ways.
00:43:51Franco once said to me, he said, Judd, can you give me all the daily to Knocked Up?
00:43:58And I want to do this art thing where I just cut a different movie.
00:44:02Oh, my God.
00:44:05Oh, my God.
00:44:06Yeah.
00:44:07And he did.
00:44:20Jason, you've made a lot of movies with a lot of talent and you get talent to work for reduced
00:44:26fees and you have a lot of product.
00:44:28What do you think is the key to managing talent?
00:44:32Communication.
00:44:33It's the key.
00:44:34And I think of it how I've managed and I think it's communication.
00:44:38I think delivering news quickly and being direct and telling the truth.
00:44:43And I think there are a lot of things, but I think that's the most important thing is just that.
00:44:51What do you respect in a producer when you're an actor and how have you translated that to being a
00:44:57producer?
00:44:58I mean, as an actor, your opinion is irrelevant when it comes to the producer.
00:45:03I mean, it's the more I don't act in movies that I'm not the producer of a lot.
00:45:10And when I do, I would consider the best producers the ones that I, the actor, as the actor, have
00:45:17no contact with in any way.
00:45:21Because there's no reason for the producer to be talking to the actor, probably.
00:45:27As an actor, I have less sympathy maybe for the plight of the actor than maybe a lot of people
00:45:34do.
00:45:35I think that, you know, I really think actors are, like, a part of the crew in a lot of
00:45:41ways.
00:45:42And at times, they are the fifth most important thing that is occurring on the screen.
00:45:48Oh, I love this.
00:45:50From an actor.
00:45:51Exactly.
00:45:52You know, there's a moment where the shot's more important than you are because you're that big of a...
00:45:56Exactly.
00:45:57I don't want to talk to you.
00:45:58Like, all I'm looking at is how much smoke there is.
00:46:01What's my motivation?
00:46:02Exactly.
00:46:02You're more going to be careful to stick your head up your ass.
00:46:06We got the...
00:46:07We had gotten the lottery to shoot, our conversation to shoot Get Out in California.
00:46:11And we lost it two weeks before we were starting shooting.
00:46:14We lost the...
00:46:15Whatever.
00:46:15There was some complication.
00:46:16And we were prepping and we were going to shoot principal photography starting two weeks from the day that we
00:46:21lost it.
00:46:22And I called Jordan.
00:46:24It was Boxing Day, December 26th.
00:46:26And I called Jordan.
00:46:27I found out and I called Jordan.
00:46:29And I said, we have to shoot the movie somewhere else.
00:46:31And we were two weeks out from principal photography.
00:46:34Thanks.
00:46:34And, yeah, it was not a fun call to make.
00:46:37But he totally took it like a pro.
00:46:39And we moved the movie to Alabama two weeks before we started shooting the movie.
00:46:43It was pretty amazing.
00:46:43You filled out your paperwork, bro?
00:46:44It was amazing.
00:46:46We did.
00:46:47We filled out.
00:46:48Rebake disappeared.
00:46:49And while talking about talent management and talent communication, I told him exactly what happened.
00:46:54I won't bore you with it here.
00:46:55But he was an incredible...
00:46:56He was a trooper about it.
00:46:58But I think...
00:46:59But, you know, pressure is a great thing for a director.
00:47:02Yeah.
00:47:02When you've got too much time to think, there's too much naval studying.
00:47:05Yeah.
00:47:05You've got to make a decision and go with it.
00:47:08And I learned making decisions through doing commercials before I even made movies.
00:47:12And so by the time I made a movie, I was 40 when I made my first movie.
00:47:16And it was easy.
00:47:17I did that.
00:47:18Fuck, that was easy.
00:47:20But it's about making decisions.
00:47:22And that's a hard thing to do.
00:47:23How do you handle conflict?
00:47:26Pretty good.
00:47:33You know, Ridley, I think that that's really true about just working.
00:47:39The movie that The Post, you know, the director, Mr. Spielberg, called me, I think it was in March, to
00:47:48say,
00:47:50once Trump actually got in office and all the insanity started, The Post became a more relevant movie that nobody
00:47:59was afraid to make.
00:48:00Not Fox, not him, which is great.
00:48:02And I'm thrilled about that.
00:48:04But we were shooting by the end of May.
00:48:06Yeah.
00:48:06And we were done in July.
00:48:08And it's coming out in December.
00:48:09And I've never seen anybody do that before.
00:48:12That's just because he just, he knows...
00:48:13Decision.
00:48:14Decision.
00:48:14Everything's a decision.
00:48:16That's great.
00:48:17Don't ponder.
00:48:18Yeah.
00:48:18If you ponder, go home and ponder.
00:48:21When you hit nine o'clock, don't ponder.
00:48:25Eric, what were the key decisions?
00:48:27You always find a way.
00:48:28Yeah, we do.
00:48:29There's always a way in the end.
00:48:30What were the key decisions that had to be made on Baby Driver?
00:48:33When you have a writer-director, it's very easy because you have the vision quite right there.
00:48:39And my job is to make sure he can do the best possible thing.
00:48:42So the only really big decision, well, not big decision, the big challenge was getting the money.
00:48:47And actually, Amy was partly responsible for making that happen.
00:48:52That's very nice.
00:48:53Were the specific songs in the script?
00:48:55Yeah.
00:48:55The script was a, I don't know if we sent it to you.
00:48:57It was an iPad.
00:48:58It was on an iPad.
00:48:59So we'd send, it's quite expensive in development.
00:49:01We were sending iPads everywhere.
00:49:02Yeah, you got to listen.
00:49:03You could make a movie for the cost of sending that script out.
00:49:05Yeah, exactly.
00:49:05No, you were actually listening.
00:49:06It was not a Blumhouse production.
00:49:09You had to listen to the music as you were reading.
00:49:10Oh, so the music would play as you were reading?
00:49:13Yeah, it was awesome.
00:49:15When you got to the scene, you just tapped the scene description header and the music played as you were
00:49:21reading.
00:49:22Yeah, that's more complicated than any movie.
00:49:24Wow, me too.
00:49:26At the time, I thought, God, this is brilliant.
00:49:27I'm going to, you know, we're going to make an app.
00:49:29We're going to sell it in the industry.
00:49:30And I thought, no one else is going to do this.
00:49:32It's great.
00:49:32It's great business.
00:49:34But yeah, and all of the songs Edgar had chosen, only one changed out of 50 songs in the movie.
00:49:41Wow.
00:49:42So we pre-approved them all before we started shooting.
00:49:43What was the song bill?
00:49:45The song bill was substantially less than you would think.
00:49:48I mean, that's what we do a bigger version, not bigger, but a more expensive version of what Jason does.
00:49:53We've, you know, the only reason we've ever been able to make the amount of films we make
00:49:57and the varied amount of films we make at Working Title is by keeping the costs low.
00:50:01And I think being based in London helps that enormously.
00:50:04Yeah, a lot.
00:50:04And so, you know, you negotiate through the international rights holders.
00:50:07And we had a brilliant lady who does all our clearances, and it came in at a level that meant
00:50:15that we could do it.
00:50:16So you doubt our credentials?
00:50:18Wall Street, right?
00:50:19Doctor, how you doubt it?
00:50:20Doc didn't tell me.
00:50:23Just an educated guess from an uneducated man.
00:50:27Well, Bats, I would be fascinated to hear your thoughts on the matter.
00:50:29Tell me if I'm way off, buddy.
00:50:31You were a stockbroker.
00:50:33Maybe a different wife, maybe kids.
00:50:36You stack your paper, but you say shit like, work hard, play harder, but you play a little too hard.
00:50:40You rack up debt.
00:50:41The type of debt that'll make a white man blush.
00:50:44Ridley, I'm curious about Harrison Ford, working with him on the original Blade Runner, and how he's...
00:50:49He's a replicant.
00:50:53He said, no, I said, first of all, when he picks up that piece of...
00:50:57The only reason for the origami, and God bless Eddie Almas, who I love, was that's not in the book.
00:51:03It's origami.
00:51:04This man leaves the trail of origami as a comment of what he thinks.
00:51:08At the very end of the movie, he has to say, how am I going to tell subliminally the audience
00:51:12that this guy's replicant?
00:51:14Well, in the middle of the movie, when he's plastered with piano playing, and he dreams of green, and there's
00:51:19a unicorn.
00:51:20Now, that can only be a private thought.
00:51:22So, when Harrison walks back to the elevator, stops, goes back, picks up, and does that, and nods, as if
00:51:30in agreement with what he knows about Eddie, Eddie's seen his file, he's a replicant.
00:51:35Now, the new film, you better go and see it.
00:51:38I saw it, it's great.
00:51:40The whole point of the story on the new film is that he has to be a replicant, otherwise it
00:51:46doesn't work.
00:51:46Right.
00:51:47I'm not going to tell it.
00:51:48Don't give it away.
00:51:50It sounds simple, but it evolves nicely, doesn't it?
00:51:53Yes, I loved it.
00:51:54It was mind-boggling.
00:51:56All I kept thinking of how much concept art they must have done.
00:52:00Rooms and rooms of concept art.
00:52:02Concept art is cheaper.
00:52:03You do it with three guys.
00:52:05I work out all my films way before I get a crew.
00:52:08Yeah.
00:52:08Yeah.
00:52:08So, everything right down to the spacesuits, everything, are all designed with three or four guys that turn with a
00:52:13production center.
00:52:14And you work on the palette for all of it before?
00:52:16Everything.
00:52:16Every scene.
00:52:17Everything.
00:52:17So, when you hit crew, you fly to Australia, you distribute it amongst 600 people.
00:52:22Wow.
00:52:23And you're still on budget.
00:52:25That's how you do that film for, say, you know, a pretty tight budget.
00:52:31Oh, my God.
00:52:32150?
00:52:33Right.
00:52:34No, no, no, no.
00:52:34No, I'm talking about what I do.
00:52:36Oh, excuse me.
00:52:37Excuse me.
00:52:37My films never pass, science fiction never pass 106.
00:52:40Right.
00:52:41That's amazing.
00:52:42That's amazing.
00:52:42106, 900.
00:52:44Well, Martian was 103, made 600.
00:52:47That's a good deal.
00:52:48That's a good deal.
00:52:49How do you decide which films to direct and which to not direct and which to produce?
00:52:54You revisited Alien as a director, but Blade Runner, you chose not to direct.
00:52:58It was a crossfire of too much business.
00:53:00I'm doing a lot of TV and a lot of films.
00:53:03There's six films going on this year.
00:53:04So, and one of them was, I figured it was a good piece of business to follow through on Prometheus,
00:53:12which from ground zero had good liftoff.
00:53:15Right.
00:53:15So, we went to Covenant to perpetuate the idea and re-evolve the universe of the alien.
00:53:21Right.
00:53:22Well, I think the beast has almost run out, personally.
00:53:24So, you've got to...
00:53:25Shh, shh, shh.
00:53:27It's not just dead.
00:53:29You've got to come in with something else.
00:53:31You've got to replace that.
00:53:32And so, I was right, I was ahead of the game.
00:53:34So, I had to make a decision.
00:53:38And so, Denis was a terrific choice.
00:53:41Judd, I want to get to a serious topic with you about Harvey Weinstein and some of the behavior that's
00:53:47been alleged against him.
00:53:48Shined a light on the industry in general.
00:53:50What responsibility do you think the industry has for this type of behavior and the fact that it went on
00:53:54for so long?
00:53:56You know, it's a difficult question because there's a culture of paying off people.
00:54:01And so, you know, if you're sexually inappropriate with somebody and they think, oh, if I speak up, am I
00:54:10suddenly a pain in the ass to everyone else in show business and I'll never work again?
00:54:14And then suddenly Harvey's like, here's $150,000 and I won't mention it to anybody.
00:54:19So, they set up a power dynamic that is very difficult for people to figure out what to do about.
00:54:28And that's why it lasts for decades because it's like a perfect system.
00:54:31And then on the side, you give money to charity and you kind of create, it's like a priest who
00:54:35seems like a great part of the community so nobody doubts him.
00:54:39So, Cosby gives his money to all these colleges and presents himself as, you know, someone we can look up
00:54:46to to hide their dark side.
00:54:49And so, then we all hear these rumors.
00:54:51Oh, he does this, he does that.
00:54:53But we didn't see it.
00:54:54And so, it's hard to say, you know, let's go get him because we're not a part of it.
00:55:01And it's unfortunately up to the people that are truly aware of it.
00:55:06You know, Bill Cosby had a lot of agents.
00:55:08He had a lot of people that were writing checks to women, you know.
00:55:12And I think the same thing is probably true of Harvey.
00:55:14Someone was writing those checks and somebody knew.
00:55:17And those people on the inside, when they're quiet also, it goes on for decades and decades.
00:55:24Because it's not hard to not be a creep.
00:55:27You know, we all work in this business.
00:55:29It's very easy not to act like that.
00:55:31I mean, you can respect people.
00:55:33You can respect women.
00:55:35And it's easy.
00:55:37It's demented not to.
00:55:40And hopefully, the industry as a whole is getting fed up.
00:55:45But the truth is, when you hear about Harvey and you go on Twitter, you go on social media, nobody
00:55:50speaks up.
00:55:51Nobody's mad about it.
00:55:52No, I mean, if you list which actors, actresses, producers, directors said, this is awful.
00:55:58Yeah.
00:55:59And I stand behind these women.
00:56:00Same with Cosby.
00:56:01And same in the black community.
00:56:03There's not a lot of people who stand up and go, Cosby is an evil man who hurt people for
00:56:07decades.
00:56:07I am horrified.
00:56:08But if you made the list, if people have spoken publicly about it, you'd go, well, why didn't this person
00:56:13ever say it out loud or this person?
00:56:15When you have, you know, dozens of victims.
00:56:18So the industry has a long way to go to have the courage to just say, I'm disgusted and I
00:56:23stand behind these accusers.
00:56:27I'll do that.
00:56:28Yeah, I think with him especially, people are very, like, I worked with him once a decade ago and I
00:56:34was like, this is a bad dude.
00:56:35I'm never going to work with him ever again.
00:56:37And everyone is just like, yeah.
00:56:39Yeah.
00:56:39But they still do.
00:56:41And, like, I think someone like him, everyone knows.
00:56:44I remember one of the first stories you heard about him involved inappropriate sexual misconduct, you know.
00:56:51And I think that people, I know that people would say to me when I would refuse to work with
00:56:57him, you know, he's old school.
00:57:00It's stuff like that.
00:57:01And there is kind of, like, a wink and an acceptance of that type of behavior.
00:57:07I think a lot of Hollywood people also like the fact that we work in a business that doesn't have
00:57:12the same rules as other businesses.
00:57:14And there's kind of, like, free to have varying personalities and stuff like that.
00:57:19And I think that ultimately also allows people to excuse a lot of horribly inappropriate behavior that just wouldn't, that
00:57:28shouldn't be acceptable, you know, for people to work with people like that.
00:57:33You know what I mean?
00:57:34Do you think that that's, he's an outlier?
00:57:36Or do you think this behavior is common?
00:57:38No, I don't think that he's an outlier.
00:57:40And I think that's probably why a lot of people haven't spoken up.
00:57:44He's a what, sorry?
00:57:45Outlier.
00:57:45Because I don't think that you can grow, you know, throw bricks at glass houses.
00:57:51I think that's some of the problem.
00:57:53I think some of the problem is that people really believed that they'd get hurt.
00:57:58And I think it's a tragic situation for our business.
00:58:02And I think that the women who stood up have to be applauded because that's really, really hard to do
00:58:08when nobody wants to stand up.
00:58:11And the silence is deafening.
00:58:13And I think that's the part that we're responsible for.
00:58:17Do you think there is that culture of fear, Jason, as someone who worked at Miramax?
00:58:21Of course, I think there's that culture of fear.
00:58:23And I agree with Amy wholeheartedly that hopefully, you know, this year, you know, it's happened repeatedly.
00:58:28And I hope many, many, I hope any woman that this has happened to comes forward.
00:58:33It's hard to come forward for people.
00:58:35Because they think they're the ones who are going to be.
00:58:37But I think it's beholden on, you know, maybe some of us for what you're saying, for the leaders in
00:58:44the industry to come out and say, even if they don't know this is factually correct, say, if this is
00:58:50correct, if there is any truth in this, this is unacceptable.
00:58:53And we will not tolerate it.
00:58:55And I'm happy to say it, but I'm not a leader of the industry.
00:58:58But I think that, you know, we need to find some of our peers who really do have a lot
00:59:03of power here in Hollywood to come out and say that and not protect him or anybody else who's doing
00:59:10it.
00:59:10I mean, there's just a lot of people who, like, for lack of a better word, you know, are kind
00:59:14of pieces of shit.
00:59:15And people just keep working with them.
00:59:16Because they're just like, well, it's a necessary evil.
00:59:19And you can make money.
00:59:21Yeah, and you can make money.
00:59:22And, like, I don't work with those people.
00:59:24There's people, you know, I would never, again, I said 10 years ago, I'd never work with him.
00:59:28I knew nothing about any of this stuff.
00:59:30But it's not surprising at all, you know.
00:59:33And so I think more people need to do that.
00:59:36They need to, you know, it's nice that I'm in a position where I'm successful enough to say I don't
00:59:41want to work with someone because a lot of people aren't in that position also.
00:59:44But I think it is up to those people to not work with those people and to shun them and
00:59:49to let people know that it's not acceptable, you know.
00:59:53All right, one last question.
00:59:54I want to ask, what's the best advice that each of you has received about working in the industry?
01:00:02Mine was recent, actually.
01:00:04There's this book called Ego is the Enemy.
01:00:06I disagree with that.
01:00:09It's not written by an actor.
01:00:11So there's this whole chapter in the book which says passion is the enemy.
01:00:17And it's just, I don't, obviously I don't totally believe that.
01:00:21But it's a funny idea and it rung very true to me.
01:00:23And I was giving it, I was doing a classic at USC or something and I was talking about it.
01:00:28But when you're asked that, when we are asked that question, a lot, oftentimes the answer is you're passionate and
01:00:36hold on for dear life.
01:00:38And I think there's something really to the notion, I don't know if it's the best advice ever, but there's
01:00:44something really to the notion of being, especially for a producer's round table, being pragmatic.
01:00:49The first eight movies I produced, I wasn't passionate about the script.
01:00:53I read a script that I thought I could get made.
01:00:55And now, luckily, we're all in the position, like you said, where we do things that we love.
01:01:00But I think to those starting out, I'm going to say put passion over here for a second and be
01:01:05pragmatic.
01:01:07I'd put that a slightly different way.
01:01:09Okay, let's see.
01:01:12You're allowed.
01:01:13Because I think being passionate about something, you can't work on anything for very long very well.
01:01:20When you're young, not when you're running a studio.
01:01:22When you're starting.
01:01:24I'm very old, and I'm still looking at it that way.
01:01:27No, no, no, I'm saying for a young person who doesn't have the choice.
01:01:31Okay, I'm going to give a different piece of advice.
01:01:33I like that.
01:01:33I think that you, you always.
01:01:35You're going to give him some advice.
01:01:36Yes, I'll take it.
01:01:37You always have a choice between your ambition and your ego.
01:01:43That's interesting.
01:01:43And you have to be very clear which one you're choosing all the time.
01:01:48Because it's really hard not to choose your ego.
01:01:52And it doesn't work.
01:01:55I agree with her now.
01:01:56I changed my mind.
01:01:57Okay.
01:01:58How about you, Judd?
01:01:58I remember when we were making Superbad with Seth, I think my advice was, less jizz, more heart.
01:02:05Yeah.
01:02:07Is that on a placard somewhere?
01:02:09Yeah.
01:02:10It's a carpet.
01:02:12That's good.
01:02:13That's the best one.
01:02:13I like his.
01:02:14I'm going with that one.
01:02:15Me too.
01:02:16I've changed twice.
01:02:17It's an odd encapsulation of years working for Gary Shandling, who I'm making a documentary about.
01:02:22And everything for him was about getting to the truth of people and the core of people and being authentic.
01:02:28And Gary didn't make an enormous amount of things in his life.
01:02:32He did great stand-up, a couple of specials, and two series that changed television.
01:02:37And he just did things that he really cared deeply about.
01:02:40He wasn't going to waste his time with anything that wasn't important to him.
01:02:43And that he wanted to make things that would make the world a better place, make people think, make people
01:02:48happier, make people, you know, in some way try to connect with other people.
01:02:53And so I've always, you know, thought about what Gary would do and how he made decisions.
01:02:58I think that Stephen Frears gave Judi Dench that exact no.
01:03:03Less jizz more heart.
01:03:04Less jizz more heart.
01:03:06She went with it.
01:03:08Do you have a piece of advice you've received?
01:03:10Yeah, I mean, we're very lucky because we make, well, maybe everybody does, but we make two kinds of films.
01:03:16Ideally, they both always do the same thing, which is art and commerce, you know, straddling that fine line.
01:03:21But on the films where commerce is really critical, and I think it was Hitchcock, I don't know, he didn't
01:03:26tell me, but somebody told me, you know, and I've really, really focused on it for the last 10, 15
01:03:31years, is the ending.
01:03:32It's all about, you know, the last five minutes, the last five, 10 minutes is worth so much more than,
01:03:37and I hate to say it next to you, but, you know, just in terms of audience, the way they
01:03:43go out of the cinema and talk about the movie and give word of mouth and, you know, perpetuate the
01:03:49success.
01:03:49So I'm very focused on that, and whoever it was who did say it, whether it was Hitchcock or my
01:03:53anonymous friend, I thank them.
01:03:56Interesting.
01:03:56How about you, Ridley?
01:03:58I didn't get a shot doing anything until I was 40, so my advice is be grateful and actually just
01:04:06keep trying.
01:04:08That's good advice.
01:04:09And you get the last word, Seth.
01:04:10Oh, man, that's hard.
01:04:11Uh-oh, pressure's on.
01:04:13I guess, like, when I was, I started doing stand-up when I was in high school, but I was
01:04:19a big fan of other comics like Billy Crystal and Stephen Wright and stuff, and I would kind of try
01:04:22to emulate their styles.
01:04:25And then an older comic named, well, everyone was older than me because I was 14, but one of the
01:04:30older comics came up to me.
01:04:31His name was Daryl Lennox, and he was like, aren't you, like, out there, like, trying to get, like, hand
01:04:36jobs and stuff like that?
01:04:37And I'm like, yeah, and he's like, talk about that.
01:04:40Like, nobody, nobody else can talk about that.
01:04:43And that's how you can make it that you're just in a completely different category than everybody else.
01:04:49He said that to a 14-year-old?
01:04:50He did.
01:04:51He's kind of a jerk.
01:04:53To me, like, Hollywood's incredibly competitive, and I'm just not a competitive person.
01:04:57Like, I hate feeling like I'm in competition with other people because I fear I will lose.
01:05:02And the only way I am able to rationalize that what we are doing is not actually competing with what
01:05:09anyone else is doing is by feeling as though it's something only we could be doing.
01:05:15That it's some, you know, some story that only we could kind of be bringing to life in this way,
01:05:21only we could be ushering in this way.
01:05:22And that's what allows me to feel always like we are doing something I'm proud of.
01:05:28And even though we are not always the most successful people or the most well-received people, we're always doing
01:05:33something that I feel like perhaps nobody else could be doing, for better or for worse.
01:05:39Hold on a second, man.
01:05:41I'm going to take issue with one thing that you said.
01:05:43You said you're not competitive, but you don't want to compete because you're afraid you would lose.
01:05:49Yeah, that's why I try to rationalize it.
01:05:51Those two don't go together.
01:05:53Those two don't go together.
01:05:54That's why in my head I have to rationalize that I'm not actually in a competition.
01:05:57That's a very competitive thing that you just said.
01:06:00It is.
01:06:01It is.
01:06:01It's for sure my own weird rationalization of it.
01:06:04But if you're afraid of losing, it's a good way to deal with Hollywood.
01:06:08All right.
01:06:09On that note, we'll end the producer roundtable.
01:06:11I'd like to thank our guests.
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