- 15 hours ago
George Clooney, Grant Heslov, Ellen Kuras, Luke Davies, Christopher Abbott and Kyle Chandler joined 'First Look' on 'The Hollywood Reporter' to discuss their new Hulu series, 'Catch-22.'
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00:05Hi, I'm Bryn Sandberg, and welcome to First Look, Catch-22.
00:09I'd like to welcome the cast and producers of Hulu's new limited series.
00:13Today with me is Luke Davies, Kyle Chandler, Christopher Abbott,
00:17Ellen Kuras, George Clooney, and Grant Heslov.
00:20Let's dive in.
00:22So Catch-22 adaptations have been notoriously difficult to make.
00:26They've been attempted before.
00:27Why take another stab at it?
00:29It had been 40-plus years since the last attempt,
00:32and it felt like we're in a new era where we can tell bigger stories on TV,
00:38and it felt like a moment to say, let's do it, let's give it a try.
00:42How'd that work out?
00:43We're all sitting here, it all worked out well.
00:46And George and Grant, how did this project come to you?
00:48I know you got a call, right?
00:50We got a call about, do you want to do Catch-22?
00:52And we said no, and then we read Luke and David's scripts,
00:57and we thought they were absolutely fantastic, and we thought, well, now we have to,
01:01because you don't get good scripts all that often.
01:04And then it was the process of finding a Yossarian.
01:08We couldn't find anybody good, so we got Chris.
01:11I thought that worked out.
01:13I'm not expensive.
01:15He was the best available.
01:16He was the best available.
01:17For the price.
01:18Great.
01:18For the price.
01:19Yeah.
01:20And Grant, for you, what was your reaction when you first read Luke's script?
01:23Well, the funny thing is that we got the script, George and I received the scripts,
01:27and I was reading the first episode at home, and he was reading it,
01:30and after he had read the first episode, we called each other and said,
01:34what do you think?
01:36This is amazing.
01:36Let's read the next one.
01:37And we read the whole, we kept calling and reading and calling and reading,
01:40by the end, we said, we got to do this.
01:42Yeah.
01:42Or if they'll let us do it, we got to do this.
01:44Yeah.
01:45Well, and obviously, a film adaptation happened in, I think, 1970s.
01:50Mike Nichols directed that.
01:51Yeah.
01:51How old were you in 1970s?
01:53And I know that, I think I read, he said in a Time interview that it felt like
01:57during production, he was pregnant with a dead child.
02:00Which is such a lovely way of putting it.
02:02It's bad for the promotion of the film.
02:04Very poor.
02:05And the film was sort of forgotten.
02:06I'm curious what sort of hesitations you had going into this,
02:10because of those past adaptations.
02:12It wasn't so much the past adaptations.
02:13It's just that it's a revered book by many.
02:17And so you just want to, you want to do it justice.
02:20But at the same time, you want to find a way into it that feels new and fresh.
02:25And that's what the scripts did.
02:26And then I think that as we were shooting them and working on them and casting,
02:30that was sort of, that was the goal to sort of reinvent it in a way.
02:33It was a, listen, it's a, the process itself is tricky, right?
02:38Because you're always going to be held up against a novel that's beloved.
02:42And so you're always going to be sort of playing defense in a way.
02:46And so we thought, well, let's just take a big swing and see what we can do.
02:50And we knew that we had good script, good actors, you know, talented people around it.
02:56So let's see how bad we can screw it up.
02:58Decent actors.
02:59Decent, Kyle.
03:00Cheap.
03:00Decent actors, apparently.
03:02Decent actors.
03:03Actually, Kyle was not cheap.
03:04We didn't tell Chris.
03:06I figured that.
03:07We paid Kyle all of your money.
03:08You had to balance out.
03:09Well, we needed Kyle.
03:10Right.
03:11Then you had like 10 bucks left.
03:12Because we could get, I mean, there's a, you throw a rock and you hit a bunch of you over
03:15there.
03:16We had to pay ourselves as actors.
03:17I'm very worried about that.
03:18Yes, we had to pay ourselves as an actor and I'm not cheap, you know.
03:22I know.
03:22Nor am I.
03:23So, Chris, tell me about how you came into us and what it was like to walk in with these.
03:28Big stars.
03:31Big?
03:32Formerly big.
03:33Used to be.
03:34Two times Sexiest Man Alive.
03:36Two times.
03:36Right.
03:36What was your joke about?
03:38Oh, yeah.
03:38Sexiest Man Still Alive.
03:40Yeah.
03:40AARP.
03:41Sexiest Man Still Alive.
03:43Thanks.
03:44No, but, you know, it was just classic audition, you know, process.
03:49Although I was lucky enough that it wasn't much of a process.
03:51I just kind of had to go in once for George and Grant.
03:53So that was nice.
03:55I've told this anecdote often enough, but George broke the ice by greeting me with a leather helmet on.
04:02Huh.
04:02So I was straight, you know.
04:03I wear it often.
04:05You do?
04:05Well, you never know if something could fall.
04:08Yeah.
04:08We often, when we're writing, we usually write in our leather helmets.
04:10Yeah, because we do a lot of this.
04:11Yeah, right.
04:12Is this from that movie that you directed?
04:14From others, yeah.
04:15It was a big flop, so we always like to, like, remind ourselves when we've had big flops.
04:20I wear the Batman outfit a lot, too.
04:22Yeah.
04:23Just the nipples.
04:24That was for Kyle's audition.
04:24Yeah.
04:25Yeah, that was for Kyle.
04:26Oh, you got the Batman suit suit.
04:26Kyle, come on in.
04:27I'm wearing a rubber bat suit.
04:30When Chris came in, you know, we had been reading people, and Chris came in, and probably
04:35after the second line, George and I, we looked at each other, and-
04:41You mean like this?
04:41Yeah.
04:41We sort of knew.
04:42We knew.
04:43We knew he was the guy.
04:45I thought they were talking and not paying attention.
04:47It really bothered me.
04:48We were talking.
04:49Yeah, yeah, I know.
04:50You know.
04:50And then for Luke, I know that when you wrote this script, did you feel like you had to
04:54rewrite these female characters?
04:56We felt, we wanted to be reverential to this iconic novel, one of the great novels of the
05:0120th century.
05:02We just felt that we had to expand the world, not just imitate the kaleidoscopic kind of chaos
05:08of the book, but lay it out in chronological orders so that all our characters could actually
05:14have kind of an emotional journey through time and space, and that included their relationships
05:19with the women in the novel.
05:21There are not many, but we wanted to give them a greater sort of three-dimensional depth.
05:25And you know, the nurse Duckett, who is played by Tessa Ferrer, first of all, I think probably
05:32the most moral character in this thing.
05:34And she also happens to be my cousin.
05:38So put that in your partner's book.
05:39Yeah.
05:40Wow.
05:40I didn't know that.
05:41She's a wonderful actress.
05:42She was on Grey's Anatomy and stuff like that.
05:43She's a wonderful actress.
05:44But, you know, we do try to keep the family working.
05:48A mafia style.
05:50Yeah.
05:50What I loved about having the female characters in this version was that they're much stronger
05:56than they were in the book.
05:58And they're very well defined.
06:00And they actually have a sense of themselves, a presence that you don't find in the book
06:05or in the movie.
06:06And, you know, what I love about nurse Duckett is that, you know, she almost has the upper
06:10hand with your Saurian.
06:12And she is manipulating the situation to her advantage in some ways.
06:17And, you know, so it really was great to work with both actresses, you know, to be able
06:21to shape that, you know, shape that tone and change it.
06:24This also helps Ellen, you know, bringing Ellen on and having her come in as a director on this
06:30was specifically because we needed, we wanted to have a point of view, not just from, you
06:38know, a bunch of old guys.
06:39I think that that was sort of another version of it.
06:42Well, old enough.
06:42Who are you talking about?
06:44You've got some gray in your beard now, buddy.
06:46Yeah.
06:47And so that was really important.
06:49And Ellen had a, Ellen's, what she brought to it was really helpful and changed sort of
06:54the point of view in a lot of ways.
06:55Well, what's interesting about the novel is even though it takes place during World War II,
06:59it's, it still feels very timely and relevant.
07:02So what was it that, what do you think it is about this material that, that still works
07:07in 2019?
07:08From my perspective, it's a, it's a universal set of facts, people caught into a reality
07:17that is just absolutely absurd.
07:20That of, I mean, in this case, it's a world war going on.
07:24These people are in a, in an area where they're going out every day to possibly more than likely
07:29not come back again.
07:31And realities are changed and fixed and new realities are created.
07:35And, um, uh, say nothing about the bureaucracy that keeps it alive.
07:39The politicians back overseas who are making it happen.
07:42The, the, the unrealities of this absurdity that is reality looked through an absurd lens
07:48to give us some humor into it.
07:50Mm-hmm.
07:50And when I read the book, I offered it to a friend of mine who was in the military.
07:54And I said, tell me what you think about this.
07:56Because I see it and I get it and I, I find things in it, but you tell me.
07:59And he said, Kyle, it's one of the funniest books I've ever read.
08:02So it was really interesting getting the perspective.
08:04It's universal.
08:05A Roman, I think, could, a Roman fighter could, could laugh at this or, uh, you know, a gentleman
08:11today who's, uh, who's been there and seen that absurdity.
08:14And I thought Luke brought out what was in that book and brought it down to what it is
08:19in the limited capacity with the characters.
08:22It's, it's beautiful.
08:23It's beautiful to look at.
08:25Yeah, he shot it.
08:25He did a beautiful job as you.
08:27Yeah.
08:27It's, absurdity is really sort of the key to this whole thing because why it's relevant
08:33now is that, you know, the minute we think that the, there's anything normal about old
08:40men usually making decisions and young people dying, uh, the minute that's normal, we have
08:45a problem.
08:46And it's so important to remember that this is something that has to be argued about
08:50endlessly, um, is that, that, uh, yes, there have been righteous wars, but those righteous
08:57wars were started by absurd, ridiculous, uh, actions.
09:01So it's always going to be that.
09:03And I think that that never gets old to talk about.
09:05Yeah.
09:05And it's not just about the insanity of war.
09:07It's also about the insanity of the big bureaucratic structures that enable that insanity to happen.
09:13So, well, speaking of those, I mean, we live in sort of absurd times right now.
09:19Exactly.
09:20It's about power and people in power and what do they do with that power, you know, and
09:26how people like, you know, sorry, and are, you know, at the end of that, but they're being,
09:32they're, they're having to bear the consequences of whatever actions from those people who have
09:37the power to be able to, to make decisions over them.
09:39So, so should we suspect or expect any, uh, any veiled Trump references in, in the show?
09:45No, we don't have any, you know, listen, there's enough of absurd, absurdity in our lives right
09:51now that we didn't really need to reference it.
09:53I think everybody understands that it's not just here.
09:56You look at what just happened in Brazil.
09:58You look in the Philippines, you look in, uh, Hungary, I mean, go down the list, uh, authoritarianism,
10:04crazy, you know, yeah, Venezuela, obviously, you know, there's plenty of that around.
10:10So you don't really need to reference any of it.
10:12It's always sort of hovering over the feeling of like, wow, we're in strange times.
10:16So I, I didn't think that that was a necessary thing.
10:20Necessary thing to include.
10:20Well, and, and George, for you, you've obviously done, been a part of several TV projects since
10:25you are, but this is sort of being billed as your big return to TV.
10:28Yes, it's my return to TV.
10:30Enjoy that.
10:32Does it feel this, that way to you though?
10:33I really, I, I thought I should have like a Tierra or something when I got, or like a something,
10:38I don't know, nothing.
10:39There was nothing by the way.
10:40It's over there by the coffee.
10:41Oh, is that by the coffee?
10:42Bring it out.
10:43They're gluing it.
10:44Bring out the Tierra.
10:46Yeah.
10:47They're gluing my Tierra right now.
10:49Um, no, I, I, it's funny.
10:50I didn't think of it that way because I have been working in television on and off through
10:54all these years.
10:55Um, I don't care about the medium.
10:58Uh, the medium has changed considerably.
11:01Uh, when Grant and I did Good Night and Good Luck at Warner Brothers, you couldn't make a
11:05$6 million black and white film at Warner Brothers anymore.
11:08You know, it would be at Hulu or Netflix or someplace else because that's just the nature
11:12of it.
11:12So the times have changed.
11:14That's okay.
11:15I don't care about how we see the things.
11:18I care about the ability to make them.
11:20And there's a lot of options now.
11:22This couldn't be made into a movie because you need the six episodes to tell these stories.
11:28Oddly enough, we consider this a movie.
11:30I mean, we consider it a sort of a six hour movie, each episode sort of moving that arc
11:35along.
11:35We always talked about it that way.
11:37Yeah, we didn't.
11:38It was a, it was a pretty odd experience for, I think for the actors in particular, because
11:43the three of us are sitting in three directors chairs with a monitor all day, every day.
11:48And because it's cross boarded, you know, it'd be like, all right, go.
11:52And if I don't, if I take too long, I've totally screwed these two on the shots for the
11:58rest of the day.
11:58So it was, you had a real responsibility to one another, you know, to be on time.
12:03Well, speaking of that, Chris, you were in almost every scene, right?
12:07Yeah.
12:07So you, and, and with the cross boarding, you were having to jump from episode one to
12:11episode six to episode three, doing costume changes in tents.
12:15What was that experience?
12:15He didn't wear a lot of costumes.
12:18I was going to say, there's a lot of, there's quite a bit of male nudity in this.
12:22Were you prepared for that?
12:24I did.
12:24I read it.
12:25You read it?
12:25I read the script beforehand.
12:26So yeah, I knew that was in there.
12:30I was, yeah, I was hoping they would just forget about it by the time you started shooting.
12:33You look very good naked though.
12:34I want you to know that.
12:35That's most important.
12:36And that's what I want people at home to take away from the show.
12:40Also, instead of like Emmys or anything like that, we're taking out ads for Chris for your
12:44consideration sexiest man alive, uh, 2020.
12:48Yeah.
12:48Great.
12:49Okay.
12:50Pick up the mantle.
12:51Yeah.
12:52We'll get it for you.
12:52Don't worry.
12:53But no, I mean, I mean, look, the nudity in this thing couldn't be more justified, you
12:57know what I mean?
12:58It's, it's not about, uh, you know, it's even though just Aaron says in the show, it's
13:03not a protest, but it's a, it's a reaction to, you know, his, what he's going through
13:07and his psyche and, and, um, means what, what does it take to break someone down this
13:13far?
13:13You know?
13:14And it's, it's a reaction to that.
13:15It's not gratuitous.
13:16Correct.
13:16Correct.
13:17Yeah.
13:17We do have some gratuitous male nudity, the shower scene with all the guys.
13:21Yeah.
13:21We just did that.
13:22Right.
13:23We didn't have to do that.
13:24You didn't have to do that.
13:24That was, that was my episode.
13:26That was your episode.
13:26I made sure I was on set that day.
13:28Yeah.
13:28You guys got out of it somehow, but.
13:30Well, nobody asked us to be nude anymore.
13:32Have you noticed?
13:33What happened to us?
13:33Yeah.
13:33They saw me nude there and now I'm going, no.
13:35Yeah.
13:35What happened?
13:36No sin, no nudity.
13:37Yeah.
13:38You showed up.
13:39He had a towel on.
13:41He's like, is this time?
13:42Yeah.
13:43They don't ask us anymore, Kyle.
13:45It's your day.
13:45I don't believe that.
13:46I don't have a hard time.
13:48Ah.
13:49Times have changed.
13:50Yeah.
13:51So you, but you had to be in all of these scenes.
13:53So was that sort of just a whirlwind for you?
13:55I'm sure it all blends together.
13:57Yeah, no, absolutely.
13:58It was intense.
13:58I mean, like I'm not an actor that complains about acting work often, but you know, I'm
14:04not, but it really, it was hard.
14:06It was different.
14:07You know, it was a lot to do.
14:08We would shoot episode one and then the next scene, something from episode six.
14:12But again, I kind of at least knew that going into it.
14:14So I had time to kind of prep myself for it.
14:17And I kind of prepared it almost like I would a play, you know, just so I can be as
14:21ready
14:23on top of things.
14:24What was the hardest?
14:25Was it the, I would imagine that the stuff on the plane was the hardest, but was that
14:29the hardest?
14:30To do, to act?
14:31Just because you were, we were doing that so fast and it was so many episodes and so
14:36much like screaming and yelling and all the technical and all that stuff.
14:40I think the, well, I think, I don't know.
14:41I think the hardest thing was just, and you know, I would get help from all you guys, but
14:46like just keeping track of the arc of the whole thing.
14:49Yeah.
14:49Because it's so, I think it's really easy.
14:50I think, you know, as actors too, it's really easy to swing, try to swing for the fences
14:54every scene.
14:55You know what I mean?
14:56Cause let's say you have a big scene in one day, you're like, all right, but you got
14:58to make sure you kind of measure it and keep, keep track of what's going on.
15:02It's for over six hours, you know, plus or minus.
15:04Honestly, this, the big question is who, which one, who's your favorite director?
15:08Who's your favorite director?
15:10Right.
15:11You don't have to answer that question.
15:13I'm going to do this for the cameras.
15:15He's going to tell me.
15:17I'll voice over in later.
15:18Like in the edit.
15:19You can tell me later in private.
15:20Oh man.
15:20I loved.
15:22What?
15:23Yeah.
15:23Just say, we'll say thank you.
15:24We'll figure that out later.
15:25We'll figure it out.
15:26Well, and like the novel, the, the show has such a heightened reality quality to it.
15:31I'm curious for, for you directors, maybe I'll start with you, Ellen.
15:34How did you translate that to the screen?
15:36Well, we had talked about it before, you know, we talked about the visual approach
15:40and how we wanted to make it more cinematic, but also to keep it as real as possible.
15:45So when we did move to the stage and we were in the, in the planes, the mockup of the
15:51planes,
15:51the real planes that were on stage, you know, we knew that we wanted to keep it real.
15:55And so all of the energy performance wise had to be in keeping with that.
16:01And, and we, we, you know, oftentimes I would say, do we think that's enough, you know,
16:05because we would, you know, go back and, and just test to see, you know, how, what the timber was.
16:11And as Chris was saying, to keep the arc of it going.
16:14Sure.
16:15It's also an interesting part of it.
16:16What, what Ellen's saying was the trick is also making sure that all the actors are acting in the same
16:21movie.
16:21Right.
16:22Same story.
16:23Cause that's the trick.
16:24Um, one of the things Mike used to talk about, Mike Nichols used to talk about with the film
16:28was that, um, there were, there were people doing different kinds of films.
16:33You know, uh, Alan Arkin is very different than Orson Welles in that film.
16:37Uh, it's fine.
16:39It, it makes it sort of a really interesting thing to watch.
16:41But for this, for the continuity, we needed everybody to be.
16:44So you could heighten like Cathcart.
16:47There's nothing subtle about Cathcart or Shyskov for that matter.
16:49It's sort of off the, off the chain.
16:51But if you watch, uh, what Kyle does with it, it's always centered and based on, in reality,
16:59which saves you and really helps.
17:01And that also is, you're helped by a lot of really good actors and these two.
17:04You can't, you can't play, you can't play satire.
17:07You know what I mean?
17:07It's in the right.
17:08I mean, it's in the writing.
17:09So you all you, then all you have to do is kind of play it honestly, then whatever,
17:14anything satirical will just come out if you just, you know, commit to it.
17:17Yeah.
17:17Well, and George, you mentioned those two characters.
17:19I know initially you were, you were gonna play the character that Kyle ended up playing.
17:23Thank God I didn't, huh?
17:25Well, I'm sure, I'm curious about the decision to, to maybe step back a little bit and play
17:30the character.
17:30Well, this was early on in the process.
17:32And we started, as we looked at it, you know, to exec, produce and direct these, uh,
17:39it was too much.
17:40Because the other thing we realized, once we realized we were all gonna be cross-boarding
17:44this stuff, meant that we were all gonna be on the set all the time.
17:48So there was never gonna be a chance to do it.
17:50And I wasn't capable, I didn't have the bandwidth to do all of that.
17:53Mm-hmm.
17:53And, uh, all kidding aside, uh, I could never have done anything near what Kyle did.
17:59I was, the very first day of shooting, it was your episode, was it?
18:03Yeah.
18:03Um, you know, when Kyle shoots the gun off in the air.
18:06Yep.
18:06And he does this long, and you know, we just threw him into the.
18:10That was my first day shooting too.
18:12Yeah.
18:12Wow.
18:12That's what I was saying, just threw him into the fire.
18:14And he just knocks it out of the park.
18:15And again, Grant and I were like.
18:17It's such a relief.
18:19It is.
18:19It really is a relief.
18:20Like you go, oh, we're gonna be fine.
18:23Yeah.
18:23You really embodied that character, Kyle.
18:26Yeah, that was fun.
18:26Well, when I first got up there, I was, I was pretty nervous, I gotta admit.
18:30And, uh, yeah, I did see you guys back there laughing.
18:33I was like, oh, Christ.
18:34Yeah.
18:35And that was the dramatic scene.
18:36Yeah.
18:37Well, and how did you get roped into it, to this?
18:40I heard you got a, was it a call from George or Grant, or.
18:42I got a call saying that, that George Clooney's gonna give you a call.
18:45He wants to talk to you about something.
18:47Oh, Christ.
18:48What have I gotten myself into?
18:50But, um.
18:51Odom money.
18:52Yeah.
18:53Gambling bet.
18:54No, I was, look, I was, you know, uh, when I read the script, it was, it was, it was,
19:00you didn't have to read far into it.
19:01It was, it was all there.
19:03It was exciting.
19:03It was, it was a great challenge and it was a work with these guys.
19:07It was sort of a no brainer.
19:09You don't say no.
19:10And you wanted to go to.
19:11You jump.
19:11You wanted to go to Italy.
19:12You wanted to go to Italy.
19:12Well, that too, yeah.
19:14But you know, that, that's the other part of this is so much fun is when you see, you
19:19know, Kyle's doing these beautiful speeches on Friday Night Lights and it's inspirational
19:24and it's like the Gipper and you're like, he's great.
19:27And he's Jimmy Stewart, you know, you love him.
19:29And to have him be this maniac is absolutely a blast.
19:34And that was, I mean, I didn't know how far he was willing to go.
19:37I don't think any of us did.
19:39And then when you started it off, we were like, oh, this is going to be insane.
19:43It's the most fun I've had in a long time.
19:45Yeah.
19:45It was really fun.
19:46And, and I've said, you guys set the tone for allowing everyone to have a great time,
19:51feel safe.
19:52And it was almost demanded.
19:54Everyone has a good time.
19:55So.
19:55Well, yeah, these are, these are quite a departure from your coach Taylor.
19:59It's like, you know, we had a lot of pep talks back in the day.
20:01Yeah.
20:01Different version of it.
20:02It's looking through the lens of absurdity.
20:04Did you ever shoot a gun in the, in Friday Night Lights for the kids?
20:08No.
20:08Not even, not even a starter's pistol?
20:10No.
20:10Never had a chance.
20:11You did some yelling though.
20:12You did do some yelling.
20:14Yeah.
20:14Starter's pistol.
20:15Whatever.
20:16That's how they start games.
20:16I want to say something to you though.
20:18Yeah.
20:18Last night when I was watching it, something caught me way off guard.
20:21There were more moments of emotional contact for the audience than I had anticipated in,
20:29because I didn't know what, you know, you're out there doing and I'm, you guys are doing.
20:33And watching it, like just the scene on the plane, awesome.
20:38Yeah.
20:38You get off that plane, walking along as you're saying, naked, it's so deserving.
20:43And man, the way you guys put that together and the way you perform that up to that, you
20:48don't expect that you get a tear in your heart.
20:51Yeah.
20:51And you feel so much, like I started to get a chill thinking about it.
20:55Just, it was incredible, it was just wonderful.
20:57I mean, it's just amazing.
20:58The kid Harrison who plays Snowden.
21:00Yeah.
21:01Literally, he's a British actor.
21:03He worked two days.
21:05He literally came in and, you know, it was so unbelievably great.
21:09And the two of you in that scene were just, I mean, it was really.
21:11That's the payoff, you know, that's the payoff on the journey.
21:15Because, you know, he starts off this one way and by the end, you know, hopefully we're
21:19weeping for him and that's really, that's the beauty of your performance.
21:23It's the beauty of your writing.
21:26Mm-hmm.
21:26Well, and Kyle.
21:27That's the beauty of the directing.
21:28Whatever.
21:29It was awful.
21:30Kyle, for you, you had these long dialogue or monologue scenes, rather, that you had
21:34to memorize.
21:35I'm sure that was no easy feat.
21:37How did you go about?
21:38That was brutal.
21:39Getting it all in your head.
21:40We had cue cards for him.
21:42It was just memorizing.
21:43Just memorizing.
21:45Both these, he had some.
21:47You too.
21:48Yeah.
21:48Also that five, that five page scene.
21:51Five page.
21:51I think that you had.
21:51Two of them.
21:53That was a hard scene.
21:54I'd have to do anything in that one.
21:55No, you literally had no lines.
21:57But that's harder than you think, George.
21:59Don't you love it when actors say that?
22:00Yeah, right.
22:01It's very hard to have no lines in that scene.
22:03You're like, yeah, fuck you.
22:05There was two five page scenes in that episode.
22:07Yeah, yeah.
22:07Had a lot of lines.
22:08I just wasn't saying them.
22:09Yeah, you didn't say anything in either of them.
22:11I know.
22:11You're right.
22:11Two long scenes.
22:13You don't say anything.
22:14You say, in the first one, you say a couple little asides.
22:17What has this become now?
22:17You had it easy.
22:18I think that's what they're trying to do.
22:19We're taking it all back.
22:20It was going well.
22:21It's over.
22:23We had it too easy.
22:24Yeah, too easy.
22:24A lot of you have mentioned that it was fun to sort of play these insane, mad characters.
22:29Do you have a particular scene that stands out to you as a favorite?
22:33Well, I'd never shot an over-the-balls shot before.
22:38And that scene made me laugh a lot with the three of us in it.
22:41Because also, you know, it's been a long time.
22:44That's a French under, right?
22:45It's a long time since I've seen Grant act too.
22:47And so that was also really fun.
22:49It was a really good time.
22:51That one was fun to show.
22:51Yeah, it's hard.
22:52I mean, it was such a, in a nice way, it was such a wash by now.
22:56You know, just a hazy wash of shooting things.
22:58Yeah.
22:59It's hard to pick out one.
22:59I'll tell you, the most difficult scene for me to shoot was the scene that we have together.
23:04That was brutal in the Catch-22 scene.
23:06Oh, the Catch-22 scene.
23:06Yeah, the Catch-22.
23:08That was brutal.
23:08You know it was brutal.
23:11And it was hard.
23:12You know it was brutal.
23:13That's when you're actually explaining what Catch-22 is.
23:15Yes, you did.
23:16But last night, he got a round of applause after he finished that thing.
23:19He did.
23:19Before he even finished it, people were applauding.
23:22Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:22I've never seen that in my life.
23:24Well, that's also because, you know, half the audience is my family.
23:26Yeah.
23:27It is true.
23:29And it was weird to have an applause light up too, which seemed odd.
23:33Applause.
23:34It was tough to get that in the Chinese theater, but I did get that up there.
23:36You didn't get it.
23:37I did get it.
23:37I was annoyed by that.
23:39Were you?
23:39Because you didn't get it.
23:40I didn't get anything.
23:41This was, of course, at the premiere.
23:43So this is people seeing the show for maybe the first time.
23:46Yeah.
23:47Any reactions that really surprised you?
23:49No.
23:49More laughs than we thought in some of the stuff.
23:51More laughs, yeah.
23:51Yeah.
23:52It was just nice to be able to see it.
23:53I mean, we're not going to get a chance to see it on a big screen.
23:56Also, look at it.
23:58Like, we only had two planes of all those B-25s.
24:02So we had to shoot that and tile it and constantly keep putting them in to make it feel like
24:07something else.
24:08And we had a really wonderful cinematographer, Martin, and an incredible visual effects guy.
24:13And we wanted it to look like, we set a style based on, like, The World at War and all
24:21those old TV series.
24:22Because that's how you know, that's how we know World War II.
24:25It's not clean and pristine and stuff.
24:27Like, so we wanted it to be shaky and moving zooms and rack focuses and catching up a lot style
24:34-wise.
24:34And so it was tricky to try to put you in that place again.
24:38So that was part of our challenge.
24:40I urge everybody to watch it on the biggest screen possible that they have because it really...
24:45My phone.
24:46Also, a quick shout out to David Grotman, too.
24:49Oh, yeah.
24:50Production designer.
24:51I can, like, everything felt so lived in and real.
24:54Yeah.
24:54Like, the details.
24:56Like, there was things in drawers and, like, it was just...
24:58That was amazing to me.
25:00Well, and going back to the planes for a second, I know you mentioned you had two of them on
25:04set, right?
25:04But, Luke, didn't you get to take a ride in one of them for research?
25:08Did I...
25:08Am I making that up?
25:09I did, yes.
25:09What was that like?
25:10It was incredible.
25:12Two things happened.
25:13I'd already written the first drafts of the screenplay of the scripts.
25:16And then when I went for that ride in the plane, I had to rewrite all the stuff inside the
25:20planes because I had imagined everything as being twice as big.
25:23And it was very, very claustrophobic.
25:25It was really loud.
25:26It was thrilling.
25:27And it was really easy to imagine how terrifying it must have been to know that you were one little
25:33flak explosion away from the whole thing going down.
25:36It was like a rattle box, a very, very old fashioned hot rod experience.
25:41Also, people were smaller then.
25:44Men were smaller by a considerable amount, weighed a lot less, were shorter.
25:49So, like, that corridor that you have to slide through to come up from the bombardier front, you know, there
25:56aren't a lot of people that could do that.
25:58I wouldn't be a bombardier in real, you know, back then in real life.
26:01Yeah, you'd be a tail gunner or something.
26:03Yeah.
26:04And Ellen, what was it like for you to direct?
26:06Did you direct any of those scenes that involved the planes?
26:09Oh, yeah.
26:10Oh, yeah.
26:10All of us.
26:11We all had planes.
26:12I did episodes two and three and there were a number of them where we, part of episode three has
26:18to do with the bombing of Bologna.
26:20So, we had to work up to that moment of knowing that this is, you know, the moment that he'd
26:27been waiting not to be Ed.
26:28Yeah.
26:29You know, when Chris was in that plane, we had to be able to feel that it was the most
26:33dangerous place that he was at at that moment.
26:37And when I went into the nose comb, I just couldn't believe it.
26:42I just thought, these guys are so exposed.
26:44You can see all around you and you're a sitting duck.
26:48Yeah.
26:49I mean, I can't imagine what the real men actually felt like when they were up there in the air
26:53and they're looking down.
26:53And there's nothing between them except a piece of plastic.
26:56They used to sit on their flak jackets so that they wouldn't get their balls blown off.
27:01I mean, it's pretty impressive.
27:02Unfortunately, he didn't do that.
27:03No, you should have sat in a flak jacket.
27:05But in a very different movie.
27:07Uh-oh.
27:07Well, speaking of different movies, you did give, George, you gave Chris some homework after he got the part right
27:12to watch a certain movie.
27:14It was Mike Nichols.
27:15It was Colonel Knowledge.
27:16Yeah.
27:17Why was that?
27:17It's a very tricky role, right?
27:20Here's a guy who does a lot of pretty self-serving things.
27:24And it's very hard to root for a character that does so many things that are sort of dastardly.
27:32You're self-serving, I think is a fair way to say.
27:34Self-protecting.
27:35And Jack Nicholson is a really good example of an actor who can do rotten things and you still root
27:42for him.
27:43Sam Rockwell when I did Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, the same thing.
27:47Some of it you just have.
27:48Some of it Chris just automatically has as an actor.
27:51And some of it I thought it's worth looking at performances where you still care about the character when they
27:59do really rotten things.
28:00And I just thought that was a good sort of heads up.
28:02Yeah, it was.
28:04Well, I'm curious if you all consider Chris's character an anti-hero.
28:09Yeah.
28:09Yeah.
28:10Yeah, of course.
28:11Yeah.
28:12You think he's a hero, right?
28:14I do.
28:15Of course you do.
28:16I do.
28:16You're supposed to.
28:17I'm supposed to.
28:18He's the same center of an insane world.
28:21Yeah.
28:21And that can be both hero and anti-hero.
28:23The two are opposite forces clashing with each other, but it's embodied in the one person.
28:30Exactly.
28:30It's a Catch-22.
28:31You know, do you save yourself or do you save others?
28:33And if you're dead, then you're not going to be much service to anybody else.
28:38If you guys want, I can do the Catch-22 speech right now.
28:41That would really be good.
28:42I actually bet you can.
28:43I would actually love if you tried.
28:44I know you can.
28:45I would love to hear you attempt it.
28:46I couldn't even paraphrase it.
28:50No.
28:50What's a Catch-22?
28:51Exactly.
28:52I'm trying to feed you.
28:54I don't remember the lines.
28:56I don't remember the lines the next day.
28:58Yeah.
28:58Well, Chris, with this role, I mean, you've been acting for a decade now and have done fantastic
29:03work, but this is a real leading man role that you've stepped into.
29:08It's a big part.
29:09And I'm curious, for those of you who have been here before, George and Kyle in particular,
29:14do you have any advice for somebody at that stage in their career?
29:19You want us to give him advice?
29:20Uh-huh.
29:22Please.
29:22My advice is take your clothes off.
29:24Right.
29:25You know, you did that.
29:26I did that.
29:27What else?
29:27Any other good advice?
29:28Kyle?
29:29Don't take your clothes off.
29:30Did you say don't?
29:32Not again.
29:33Do it once.
29:34Only once.
29:35Just give him a little.
29:37Yeah.
29:38He doesn't need advice.
29:39Save your money, kid.
29:40Yeah, honestly, he doesn't.
29:41Save your money.
29:42He needs advice, but not about that stuff.
29:44Yeah, he needs life advice.
29:45Not about acting.
29:46Outside of this.
29:47Wine.
29:47Food.
29:48Don't need advice.
29:49You're an actor.
29:50Don't get tattoos.
29:51But he screwed that up.
29:53And you guys shot this over the course of five months in Italy, which had to be a lot
29:58of fun.
29:58It was hard.
29:59Yeah.
29:59Terrible.
30:00They do food bad.
30:01Yeah, the food.
30:02The wine.
30:03Hot food is terrible.
30:03No one had a better time than Kyle.
30:05Yeah.
30:05I had a fine time.
30:07No one.
30:07Because we had a good time.
30:08He would work and then he would have some time off.
30:10Uh-huh.
30:10And he was at this beautiful hotel every day at the end of the day.
30:14He'd sit out there.
30:15Have a little rosé.
30:15Sunset.
30:16Well, now listen.
30:17It wasn't that easy.
30:18I mean, it was work still, but it was, you know.
30:22He has a little motorcycle.
30:25Did you ride a motorcycle around?
30:26We'd finish the evenings and sit out on the Mediterranean and have a martini.
30:32Have a nightly cigar.
30:34Wow.
30:34Listen to Hugh Laurie tell stories.
30:36Sure, he does that.
30:37Sure.
30:38Brown and Mr. Davies here.
30:39It was enjoyable.
30:40It was enjoyable.
30:41It was beautiful.
30:42And his family came out.
30:43His beautiful wife was with him.
30:45He couldn't have had a better time.
30:46It was like a paid vacation.
30:47It's one of those.
30:48Yeah, it's really.
30:49I mean, honest to God, he didn't even work.
30:52It is one of those.
30:53I mean, but you know, look, I think we all be lying to say part of the perks is like
30:57getting
30:58to travel and do fun things and doing great work like this.
31:01And so finally, like, it all kind of worked out like in a, you know, perfect balance.
31:05I mean, the amount of small movies that I've done in upstate New York, you know, which
31:10is great.
31:11No insult to upstate New York.
31:13My sister lives there.
31:14I love it.
31:15Many of my friends are upstate New Yorkers.
31:17I have great tax incentives.
31:18Yeah.
31:19It's fun.
31:20I can say that.
31:21But it's like, finally, Jesus, I finally get to go somewhere.
31:23Also, we shot at Chinichita, which is a pretty cool, you know, one of the great movie studios
31:28of all time.
31:30And it was exciting to be there.
31:32What else did you do for fun when you had that leisure time?
31:36I crashed a motorcycle.
31:37That was fun.
31:38You did.
31:39Yeah.
31:40That was a really fun time.
31:41Thank God you were okay.
31:42I've learned that I really actually cannot fly.
31:46I learned that lesson really well.
31:48Grant and I both were in that one.
31:49Well, you did fly actually.
31:50I did a pretty good job of it though.
31:52Yeah.
31:52It didn't do bad.
31:53That was a great wreck in my life.
31:56Yeah.
31:56It was a good one.
31:57It got both Grant and I after 40 years of riding together off of motorcycles for good,
32:02which is, that's a good launch.
32:04Yeah.
32:04But it didn't delay production at all.
32:07No.
32:08No.
32:08I was shooting down the street.
32:10I was back at work like four days later.
32:13That's incredible.
32:14To be that terrific and to almost go like this after.
32:17Yeah.
32:17It was pretty amazing.
32:18So you really don't ride anymore.
32:19I had to quit.
32:20I got, it was a bad, I hit him at 70 miles an hour.
32:24So, you know.
32:24I made a deal.
32:25I made a deal.
32:26I said, cause literally as we were on the side, I was, as I was holding him, we were
32:30waiting for the ambulance.
32:31Oh my God.
32:32I said to myself, if he, if he lives, I'll never ride a motorcycle again.
32:36Split my helmet in half, but knocked me out of my shoes.
32:39You know what I mean?
32:40I was, it hit hard.
32:42It was bad.
32:42So it was bad.
32:43And I was just waiting for the switch to turn off.
32:45Cause I broke his windshield with my head and I thought, okay, well that's my neck.
32:50And, uh, and so a million, if you get nine lives, I got all of them used up in one.
32:55So I can, I can like go motorcycle riding for a while.
32:58Yeah.
32:58And Kyle, do you still ride?
33:00Yeah.
33:00Before I answer that though, I'd like to clarify when I said it was a good wreck, meaning that
33:05you walked away from it.
33:06Any wreck you walked away from is a good wreck.
33:08I agree.
33:08I agree.
33:09Yeah.
33:10We got, we got into hang gliding though, which is great.
33:13We do, we do free solo now.
33:18It's called free solo.
33:20Well, this is fun.
33:21Thank you so much for being here and thank you for watching.
33:24Be sure to watch catch 22 streaming now on.
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