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Malaysia is on track to become an aged nation in the coming years, bringing new social and policy challenges. Among them is elder abuse, a problem experts say remains under-recognised despite its potentially devastating consequences. As policymakers are currently considering new legislation for senior citizens, what reforms are needed to ensure older persons in Malaysia are adequately protected. To mark World Elder Abuse Awareness Day, Melisa Idris speaks with gerontologist Lily Fu, Founder of SeniorsAloud and Vice President of the University of the Third Age, Malaysia.
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00:10Hi, welcome back to Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris. Let's continue our conversation about
00:15elder abuse and how Malaysia can better safeguard the rights and autonomy of older persons. This
00:21as policymakers are currently considering a new legislation to protect our senior citizens.
00:27Joining me on the show now is Lily Fu, who is a gerontologist. She's the founder of Seniors
00:33Allowed, which is an online community for seniors. She's also the vice president of the University of
00:40the Third Age in Malaysia, which offers lifelong learning programs. Lily, it's good to have you
00:47back on the show. Thank you so much for joining me. So I want to talk about elder abuse and
00:52the
00:52awareness around it. Do you think there is sufficient awareness about elder abuse in Malaysia?
00:58And I'm wondering if you can tap on your experiences working with seniors. What have been some of the
01:04realities that you have heard or observed about how abuses and exploitations of rights of senior
01:12citizens might take place in reality? Thank you for having me again. Yeah, I'm delighted to come in
01:20and just share a bit of my views regarding this because I think it's getting worse if you ask me.
01:25Elder abuse in our country is not for a lack of awareness, but to me personally, I feel that
01:31a lot of cases go unreported because it is what I call very personal. It involves a family and nobody
01:40wants
01:40to air their dirty linen in public. So because of that, the victim, ultimately the senior citizens
01:47themselves, the elderly, they have got nowhere to turn to because it goes to who will want to report
01:52their own children in that sense. So I think there's a lot of concern. But unfortunately, what happens is
02:00that action. To do something about it has been extremely, painfully slow. And we need to get the
02:08government to speed up. What do you need from us? We can provide it for you. Let us know what
02:15you need
02:15so that we can get it going. We can get it moving. Action. I'm not just talk, talk, talk.
02:21You're referring to, of course, the fact that the government is tabling, preparing to table a
02:27senior citizens bill. I understand it's been a long time in the making. Can you talk to me about that?
02:34Just at a fundamental level, why does Malaysia need such legislation? For the sceptics out there
02:41who think that we don't need such a bill, what would you say to them about why it's important we
02:46have
02:47a senior citizens bill? Yeah, first of all, I think it's a disgrace. All of us know that, you know,
02:53we should be feeling in the sense that our parents looked after us when we were babies when we were
02:58young. So it is our turn when they need us. We should give it back our love and our care.
03:03All
03:03they need to do is just go into the inner city centers. Take a walk, right? Those who are driving,
03:09you won't know what's happening. Get down on the street. Walk around. You will see a lot of these
03:15elderly people. They're homeless. They're abandoned. They're also those who are just wandering around
03:21and they're not aimless. And what are the stories? Talk to them. Find out what goes on. And I'm sure
03:27you can find very interesting stories behind what they tell you, what they want to share with you.
03:32And I think some of you may know that I've done the documentary called Maninhi Senja. And that came
03:38about as a result of three months of interview with the elderly downtown. And the stories are very
03:45pathetic. And I can understand on one hand why there is a reluctance to put this, you know, to implement
03:54this bill. Because there's a group that feels that the government shouldn't step in. This is
04:01family matter. So the family, the children should take care of their own parents and grandparents.
04:08Because it is a huge burden for the government if you just leave it entirely to the government.
04:12I think to me, everybody should come on board for this. Whether it is the family, the government,
04:18the community, everybody. Because it is something that we will all grow all one day. Can't help it.
04:25So we as parents, let's start with the home. Let's start with the family. If we show a good example
04:30to
04:30our own family, our own parents, our children learn from us. This is the starting point, I think. And it
04:37will
04:37help us later on, you know, bringing, you know, carrying this forward to each generation, passing
04:44it down, filial piety. Unfortunately, for very many reasons, which I also appreciate, the young people
04:51today, even though they really want to, many of them want to, they just kind of want to, not able
04:56to do so.
04:59Can I ask you to maybe elaborate a little bit? You seem to have empathy for both sides, both the
05:07need for legislation, but also some of the pushback that may come, the hesitance that may come in
05:15finalising such a bill. Can you talk to me about what you personally think the bill should
05:22should be about? What kind of rights and protections would you like to see the bill champion or included
05:31as a co-tenant of the bill? Well, I think we are quite familiar with the different types of abuse.
05:37There's financial abuse, maybe number one, not necessarily number one, but there is financial abuse.
05:42And for this, you know that in the elderly, they can, many of them can't afford to take care of
05:47themselves.
05:47They are no longer working and their retirement savings may not cover the entire old age period
05:54because we know that we live longer now. So it's insufficient, especially not to live in the city.
06:00That's financial. Then of course, we also have physical abuse, right? That is sometimes very hard to
06:09excuse, but I can understand where it comes from. Because of the lifestyle today, young people are under a lot
06:15of
06:16stress and a lot of pressure. Sometimes, you know, they just lash out, just can't help themselves.
06:21No excuse, but I can understand. It's just a bit of a sick empathy over there. And that's, I think
06:28for me
06:28personally, the worst is psychological abuse because you live with it 24-7 if you are living with your adult
06:37children, right? They give you a rule that's barely called a rule in some cases that I've seen.
06:44And every day they are nagging you or they're totally ignoring you, not caring about you.
06:50So this is very hard for older people to take 24-7. And that's why when you interview a lot
06:56of those
06:57unfortunate elderly, you keep on saying, I just want to die. I just want to die. What's the point of
07:03living?
07:03And this is very sad. And of course, I've met children who also tell me that why should I take
07:09care of my parents? They, or my father abandoned me when we were children. So why should we take care
07:17of
07:17him? He abandoned us. When I tell them in response that this is no time to play tit for tat.
07:24Because,
07:24you know, your elderly parents, they can't take care of themselves. You can still take care of yourself.
07:31Take care of them, please. This is all I can do. I cannot force anybody. So even if you have
07:38a
07:38Senior Citizens Act, right, there's no guarantee that, you know, it will be enforced. Of course,
07:44you can have a, you know, you can make it legal. But it's always not that simple.
07:51Lily, something you said earlier really resonated with me. You said many of the cases of elder abuse
07:57often go unreported because, you know, elders, they don't want to report on their own family
08:02members, their own relatives. But can I ask you what role we as the community can play? Are there
08:08warning signs that the community, us neighbors and, you know, friends of us in society should be paying
08:16attention to maybe to be more aware in case elder abuse is happening?
08:22Yeah. First of all, you have to recognize the signs, whether it is of financial abuse or psychological
08:29or even physical. Physical is the easiest because you can see bruises, right? If it's psychological,
08:36you can also see it, outward sign. They are very withdrawn. They don't want to share anything. They
08:41just keep quiet, keep to themselves. That could be a sign, a red flag. Financial, of course, you know,
08:48it's easy. That's easy. Yeah. So these are the signs and we should be familiar with these signs.
08:54And I always recommend that parents, if you can, get your children, young children involved in community
09:00work, especially community work in the care centres, so they can see for themselves what this is like.
09:08All right. In our final few minutes, I'm quite curious to know, Lily, what your
09:14thoughts are about growing old in Malaysia today? Do you have, what are your, what would be your,
09:19I guess, biggest concern about growing old here? Loneliness is, I think, a big one
09:28at the moment. Yeah. So because of that, you see, we all start with having a family. We have
09:36children and all that. We have husband, spouse, but eventually even when you're married, you have
09:41children, they leave you, you have an emptiness. So, okay, you're alone with your spouse, but eventually
09:48one of you go and then you're all alone. And then you find that when you are that age, most,
09:54the average
09:54would be about 70 something. You find that your friends, your former colleagues are no longer
09:59there. You want to go out and, you know, you want to go to a concert, but who's there to
10:02go with you?
10:03Because your friends are in the same boat. They want to go out, but they cannot drive themselves.
10:08They know they've given up driving. And yes, many of your friends, your colleagues, your peers,
10:14they have also departed. And those who are not, they are busy or they don't want to go out.
10:20So what if you're left alone? So that's why I say the buzzword now for me, right? And for my
10:27friends
10:27in the same age group is community. That's so important. Join a community, be a part of the
10:36community. So you're never, never alone. And all you need to do, give yourself time to mix around.
10:42And then eventually you'll find that you have three or four people who are really your buddies.
10:48They will be with you all the way to the very end. So you won't be alone.
10:53Yeah. I think we often talk about preparing financially for older age, but we don't often
11:00talk about how to prepare for community when we're older, for social and emotional aging. So I do
11:10wonder whether that's something we should be prioritizing going forward.
11:13Yes, I think so. But well, I won't put, I don't like this one, two, three, because to me,
11:21they're all like equally important. Yeah. So community is very, very important. But at the same time,
11:29I think the seniors themselves should be, should take responsibility for themselves, right? Prepare
11:34early. If you know what's going to be ahead, that your children might not be there for you,
11:39your spouse might not be there for you. So you prepare financially, save. But of course,
11:45there's the other, you know, side of the story, but they say you only live once. So whatever money
11:51you have spent travel, you know, but sorry to say, but I mean, you can, sure you can travel,
11:58but within the, your limits, right? To see. And I also advise, it's more about money management at this
12:07stage, not about investing. Don't do investing because you never know, especially if you're not
12:12sure how to go about it, right? So money management, and I'm very happy to say that the government through
12:18EPF has got this Belanjaku advisory. So they tell you like, you know, budgeting, how to go about budgeting.
12:24And if you're a single living alone elderly, how much should you budget for? And what you should
12:29budget for? This is very, very helpful. So I hope the seniors themselves will be, you know, aware of this.
12:35And please think, don't spend on supporting your children's weddings, please.
12:43It's not yours. Okay. If you can afford it, it's okay. But if you can't, please don't help. No need
12:48to help.
12:48Don't pay for your children's deposit on the house. Sorry, please don't be adult children out there.
12:56Right. Lily, I'm so sorry. We've run out of time, but I do appreciate you coming on the show and
13:01sharing some of your thoughts with us. That was Lily Fu, founder of Seniors Allowed. Wrapping up this
13:06episode of Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris, signing off for the evening. Thank you so much for watching, and good
13:12night.
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