00:10hello and good evening i'm melissa idris welcome to consider this this is the show where we want
00:15you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of the day as we know malaysia is
00:20on
00:20track to become an aged nation in the coming years bringing with it new social and policy challenges
00:29now among them is elder abuse a problem that experts say remain under recognized despite its
00:35potentially devastating consequences so to mark world's elder abuse awareness day let's explore
00:43whether we as a country are doing enough to protect our older populations joining me on the show today
00:50is mafruhin mukta who is the head of the research and development department at agency counseling
00:56and pengurusan credit or better known as akpk mafruhin thank you so much for being on the show with me
01:01today uh so i understand akpk has done quite a bit of research on elder financial abuse and i wanted
01:08to
01:09begin our conversation there looking at elder financial abuse do you think that um most people
01:14understand what it is let alone um are aware of it yeah uh thank you melissa thank you for for
01:23for
01:23calling us uh to share uh what we know about the elderly financial abuse and as you mentioned we did
01:30a research on the financial abuse i mean we did a research on elderly abuse and neglect and uh some
01:37of the elements about the neglect is basically the financial abuse which the topic that we are talking
01:43today and your question about whether people are aware about the financial abuse um i think there is a
01:50misconception or misunderstanding about the abuse itself uh i mean among the elderly where sometimes
01:57they don't feel being abused but in natural fact they actually being abused um so some definition about
02:04how do we recognize uh is being abused maybe perhaps the point number one is actually to misuse so if
02:12someone misuse um um the elderly in terms of financial they are actually being being abused and some
02:20exploitation perhaps and also uh unauthorized use or um you know um use of the financial resources among
02:30the elderly so i give you example of uh perhaps um what normally happen in in in our real world
02:38uh the elderly
02:39have children who actually abuse their parents where for example if if if the children actually
02:47asking for money and exploit and misuse the the trust given by the parents um and and the parents actually
02:55not realizing that they're actually being abused but they said that oh i'm not being abused i'm just um
03:00doing my responsibility as parents um so that is actually um uh uh you know the understanding of the
03:09financial abuse sometimes uh that brings the perpetrator taking advantage of the elderly
03:15which is wonderful why we're talking about this right the idea is to highlight the issue so that there
03:20is more awareness about this type this specific type of elder abuse financial elder abuse can you talk to
03:26me about whether or not well who is most vulnerable so you talked about um exploitation right are there
03:32particular groups of older persons who are more vulnerable or face higher risks of financial exploitation
03:40well based on research i mean statistically we can find that some of the characteristics of the
03:48elderly elderly that has been um abused and and being reported is number one we can say that those uh
03:56elderly parents are actually living alone because there is very lack of support system um around them
04:04that they they have exposure and and they have more vulnerability in terms of being abused by
04:10by the perpetrators and um it's not only living alone um those elderly who actually depend on others to manage
04:19uh daily needs and and finances uh maybe because of you know um uh some elderly that they don't have
04:29um or they i mean they have incapability in terms of uh managing their own finances they need someone who
04:38take care of their finances so this also make uh themselves vulnerable so we have to make sure
04:44those who are actually managing the elderly uh people's financial management um is trusted and perhaps
04:52um you know the elderly i mean generational gap where now we are in the digital era so we have
05:00um uh digital and technology to manage finance so when these other people are not well-versed about the
05:08digital usage then they tend to give out and and outsource the financial management to others and they
05:15are actually becoming more uh exposed and and vulnerable and as well with this um you know um uh when
05:24we
05:24uh approaching uh uh old age uh some of the capability uh you know uh has been reduced and this
05:34is make
05:34themselves actually vulnerable to financial abuse so so if i may come back to the example you gave a bit
05:40earlier about how a type of financial abuse you know the misuse by family members can you maybe talk
05:47to us a little bit about the difference between financial abuse that involves family members and
05:53and relatives and the like versus what we're also seeing a rise in financial abuse from online scams
06:01that are specifically targeting older persons senior citizens obviously when we see these two different
06:10types of abuse coming from you know um of course the scammers are actually external and in those cameras
06:17they are not they don't know the victims and the victims don't know them and and the difference
06:23between the scammers and the family members of course the family members the persons who they are actually
06:31having a closer relationship and and based on research we can see you know the perpetrators for uh you
06:38know the direct uh perpetrators is basically uh those who actually closer uh relations to to the victims
06:47and of course when we look at the scammers for example they are actually using uh social engineering
06:55profiling you know the way how they talk uh via the phone they are convincing they convince the victims
07:03to trust them so this this the modus operandi is a bit different as compared to the family members where
07:10the family family members uh uh can be easily trusted uh by the victims and and and the the approach
07:19of
07:19abusing uh the elderly financially is a bit different um so yeah to answer your question in terms of the
07:27differences um scammers is is is quite uh compressed and sophisticated and they are actually um having a very
07:37high um knowledge in terms of profiling the victims and and the way how they influence and do the nudges
07:44so that uh you know uh they can they can convince and influence the victim to make a very quick
07:52decision um you know so so that is a different model separate as compared to the family members which
07:58abuse the parents and elderly can i ask you has akpk um been seeing any uh how concerned is akpk
08:06about this
08:06now are you seeing any um increase in trends or uh patterns emerging from the way older people are being
08:16targeted by these very sophisticated scammers um yeah well akpk is not a center or agency that collect all the
08:27data um i i believe the authority have um a better data to to showcase uh the trend um however
08:37um i think
08:38uh based on our observation uh there are some cases where the elderly also seeking you know uh financial
08:47advisory and and and based on some um uh i could say quite isolated cases where some elderly um also
08:59reported that they have i mean you know they have to do something for their children and then we can
09:06see
09:06that um indirectly the children is actually making use of the parents uh to take care of their dads and
09:12whatnot so um so this is actually unrecorded um uh data but we can we can observe uh there is
09:21um
09:22certain circumstances or situation where um elderly persons are actually being used by by their children
09:31um when it comes to the uh money management and debt management um and and some of the cases if
09:39i may
09:40share uh some elderly also uh you know um taking out all the savings just to take care of the
09:48financial
09:49obligation of their children so so this what we observe happen uh but to answer your question maybe the
09:55scams i believe uh there might be an authority that will bet the data on that right but um what
10:02can
10:02uh i guess we do to look out for older persons so that we uh minimize their risk of being
10:09exploited for
10:10financial abuse are there warning signs to look up for what can we not just as family members but also
10:16you know the community or even uh institutions like banks and government agencies can they play a role
10:22in detecting and preventing elder financial abuse yeah i think um i mean to to detect the the the elderly
10:31abuse um we we have to be together um you know government agencies private institution financial
10:41institutions and even ekbk um and we as a family members uh we have it together and how to detect
10:48perhaps
10:49we if we can give some um knowledge or advocacy based on research um how we detect those elderly
10:57being abused maybe we can see if there is any sudden changes in financial behavior for example
11:03all this while the withdrawal um it quite consistent a certain amount of money to take care of their daily
11:10expenses but suddenly there is a spike of uh you know a very high amount of withdrawal so i think
11:16this is
11:16also a trigger uh of the financial abuse there might be a possibility might might might not be or might
11:24be um and maybe you know um and also um uh if we can uh sense that uh there is
11:33maybe anyone who
11:35actually becoming overly involved in managing their finances then we can think oh why suddenly uh this
11:41person is actually very um keen to to look into you know the financial management of this particular
11:48ugly and um of course when it comes to scammers um uh me myself i have an experience my when
11:56you know my
11:56father called me you know oh i got a call from someone uh police station uh is saying that um
12:05the the
12:05house phone number is usually involved in in drugs you know uh so and and essentially a pressure so
12:13so we have to be aware of what happened uh i think community need to be uh more uh mindful
12:21about what
12:22is currently happening the most operandi of the scammers and and you know when and last but not least
12:30what the trigger point or warning signs that we can track if there is a sudden uh behavior change or
12:38psychological change uh because based on research we can find that um the financial abuse almost come
12:46with the psychological abuse so if you can see that elderly has been anxiety depression maybe we can
12:53ask them what is actually the root cause of the problems and and and what cause of the anxiety
12:59and and you know um i mean statistically statistically what we can find from the research uh more often
13:06than not uh the psychological abuse come with the financial abuse so so those are actually winning
13:11signs that we could uh be mindful for um if we have elderly in our home then yeah maybe we
13:18can take some
13:19actions thank you so much for sharing some of akpk's research with us mafuhi mokhtar there from akpk we're
13:26going to take a quick break here on consider this we'll be back with more on this topic of elder
13:30abuse
13:30in just a few minutes stay tuned to consider this
13:32you
