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Malaysia is on track to become an aged nation in the coming years, bringing new social and policy challenges. Among them is elder abuse, a problem experts say remains under-recognised despite its potentially devastating consequences. As policymakers are currently considering new legislation for senior citizens, what reforms are needed to ensure older persons in Malaysia are adequately protected. To mark World Elder Abuse Awareness Day, Melisa Idris speaks with Mafrukhin Mokhtar, Head of the Research and Development Department at Agensi Kaunseling dan Pengurusan Kredit (AKPK).
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00:10hello and good evening i'm melissa idris welcome to consider this this is the show where we want
00:15you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of the day as we know malaysia is
00:20on
00:20track to become an aged nation in the coming years bringing with it new social and policy challenges
00:29now among them is elder abuse a problem that experts say remain under recognized despite its
00:35potentially devastating consequences so to mark world's elder abuse awareness day let's explore
00:43whether we as a country are doing enough to protect our older populations joining me on the show today
00:50is mafruhin mukta who is the head of the research and development department at agency counseling
00:56and pengurusan credit or better known as akpk mafruhin thank you so much for being on the show with me
01:01today uh so i understand akpk has done quite a bit of research on elder financial abuse and i wanted
01:08to
01:09begin our conversation there looking at elder financial abuse do you think that um most people
01:14understand what it is let alone um are aware of it yeah uh thank you melissa thank you for for
01:23for
01:23calling us uh to share uh what we know about the elderly financial abuse and as you mentioned we did
01:30a research on the financial abuse i mean we did a research on elderly abuse and neglect and uh some
01:37of the elements about the neglect is basically the financial abuse which the topic that we are talking
01:43today and your question about whether people are aware about the financial abuse um i think there is a
01:50misconception or misunderstanding about the abuse itself uh i mean among the elderly where sometimes
01:57they don't feel being abused but in natural fact they actually being abused um so some definition about
02:04how do we recognize uh is being abused maybe perhaps the point number one is actually to misuse so if
02:12someone misuse um um the elderly in terms of financial they are actually being being abused and some
02:20exploitation perhaps and also uh unauthorized use or um you know um use of the financial resources among
02:30the elderly so i give you example of uh perhaps um what normally happen in in in our real world
02:38uh the elderly
02:39have children who actually abuse their parents where for example if if if the children actually
02:47asking for money and exploit and misuse the the trust given by the parents um and and the parents actually
02:55not realizing that they're actually being abused but they said that oh i'm not being abused i'm just um
03:00doing my responsibility as parents um so that is actually um uh uh you know the understanding of the
03:09financial abuse sometimes uh that brings the perpetrator taking advantage of the elderly
03:15which is wonderful why we're talking about this right the idea is to highlight the issue so that there
03:20is more awareness about this type this specific type of elder abuse financial elder abuse can you talk to
03:26me about whether or not well who is most vulnerable so you talked about um exploitation right are there
03:32particular groups of older persons who are more vulnerable or face higher risks of financial exploitation
03:40well based on research i mean statistically we can find that some of the characteristics of the
03:48elderly elderly that has been um abused and and being reported is number one we can say that those uh
03:56elderly parents are actually living alone because there is very lack of support system um around them
04:04that they they have exposure and and they have more vulnerability in terms of being abused by
04:10by the perpetrators and um it's not only living alone um those elderly who actually depend on others to manage
04:19uh daily needs and and finances uh maybe because of you know um uh some elderly that they don't have
04:29um or they i mean they have incapability in terms of uh managing their own finances they need someone who
04:38take care of their finances so this also make uh themselves vulnerable so we have to make sure
04:44those who are actually managing the elderly uh people's financial management um is trusted and perhaps
04:52um you know the elderly i mean generational gap where now we are in the digital era so we have
05:00um uh digital and technology to manage finance so when these other people are not well-versed about the
05:08digital usage then they tend to give out and and outsource the financial management to others and they
05:15are actually becoming more uh exposed and and vulnerable and as well with this um you know um uh when
05:24we
05:24uh approaching uh uh old age uh some of the capability uh you know uh has been reduced and this
05:34is make
05:34themselves actually vulnerable to financial abuse so so if i may come back to the example you gave a bit
05:40earlier about how a type of financial abuse you know the misuse by family members can you maybe talk
05:47to us a little bit about the difference between financial abuse that involves family members and
05:53and relatives and the like versus what we're also seeing a rise in financial abuse from online scams
06:01that are specifically targeting older persons senior citizens obviously when we see these two different
06:10types of abuse coming from you know um of course the scammers are actually external and in those cameras
06:17they are not they don't know the victims and the victims don't know them and and the difference
06:23between the scammers and the family members of course the family members the persons who they are actually
06:31having a closer relationship and and based on research we can see you know the perpetrators for uh you
06:38know the direct uh perpetrators is basically uh those who actually closer uh relations to to the victims
06:47and of course when we look at the scammers for example they are actually using uh social engineering
06:55profiling you know the way how they talk uh via the phone they are convincing they convince the victims
07:03to trust them so this this the modus operandi is a bit different as compared to the family members where
07:10the family family members uh uh can be easily trusted uh by the victims and and and the the approach
07:19of
07:19abusing uh the elderly financially is a bit different um so yeah to answer your question in terms of the
07:27differences um scammers is is is quite uh compressed and sophisticated and they are actually um having a very
07:37high um knowledge in terms of profiling the victims and and the way how they influence and do the nudges
07:44so that uh you know uh they can they can convince and influence the victim to make a very quick
07:52decision um you know so so that is a different model separate as compared to the family members which
07:58abuse the parents and elderly can i ask you has akpk um been seeing any uh how concerned is akpk
08:06about this
08:06now are you seeing any um increase in trends or uh patterns emerging from the way older people are being
08:16targeted by these very sophisticated scammers um yeah well akpk is not a center or agency that collect all the
08:27data um i i believe the authority have um a better data to to showcase uh the trend um however
08:37um i think
08:38uh based on our observation uh there are some cases where the elderly also seeking you know uh financial
08:47advisory and and and based on some um uh i could say quite isolated cases where some elderly um also
08:59reported that they have i mean you know they have to do something for their children and then we can
09:06see
09:06that um indirectly the children is actually making use of the parents uh to take care of their dads and
09:12whatnot so um so this is actually unrecorded um uh data but we can we can observe uh there is
09:21um
09:22certain circumstances or situation where um elderly persons are actually being used by by their children
09:31um when it comes to the uh money management and debt management um and and some of the cases if
09:39i may
09:40share uh some elderly also uh you know um taking out all the savings just to take care of the
09:48financial
09:49obligation of their children so so this what we observe happen uh but to answer your question maybe the
09:55scams i believe uh there might be an authority that will bet the data on that right but um what
10:02can
10:02uh i guess we do to look out for older persons so that we uh minimize their risk of being
10:09exploited for
10:10financial abuse are there warning signs to look up for what can we not just as family members but also
10:16you know the community or even uh institutions like banks and government agencies can they play a role
10:22in detecting and preventing elder financial abuse yeah i think um i mean to to detect the the the elderly
10:31abuse um we we have to be together um you know government agencies private institution financial
10:41institutions and even ekbk um and we as a family members uh we have it together and how to detect
10:48perhaps
10:49we if we can give some um knowledge or advocacy based on research um how we detect those elderly
10:57being abused maybe we can see if there is any sudden changes in financial behavior for example
11:03all this while the withdrawal um it quite consistent a certain amount of money to take care of their daily
11:10expenses but suddenly there is a spike of uh you know a very high amount of withdrawal so i think
11:16this is
11:16also a trigger uh of the financial abuse there might be a possibility might might might not be or might
11:24be um and maybe you know um and also um uh if we can uh sense that uh there is
11:33maybe anyone who
11:35actually becoming overly involved in managing their finances then we can think oh why suddenly uh this
11:41person is actually very um keen to to look into you know the financial management of this particular
11:48ugly and um of course when it comes to scammers um uh me myself i have an experience my when
11:56you know my
11:56father called me you know oh i got a call from someone uh police station uh is saying that um
12:05the the
12:05house phone number is usually involved in in drugs you know uh so and and essentially a pressure so
12:13so we have to be aware of what happened uh i think community need to be uh more uh mindful
12:21about what
12:22is currently happening the most operandi of the scammers and and you know when and last but not least
12:30what the trigger point or warning signs that we can track if there is a sudden uh behavior change or
12:38psychological change uh because based on research we can find that um the financial abuse almost come
12:46with the psychological abuse so if you can see that elderly has been anxiety depression maybe we can
12:53ask them what is actually the root cause of the problems and and and what cause of the anxiety
12:59and and you know um i mean statistically statistically what we can find from the research uh more often
13:06than not uh the psychological abuse come with the financial abuse so so those are actually winning
13:11signs that we could uh be mindful for um if we have elderly in our home then yeah maybe we
13:18can take some
13:19actions thank you so much for sharing some of akpk's research with us mafuhi mokhtar there from akpk we're
13:26going to take a quick break here on consider this we'll be back with more on this topic of elder
13:30abuse
13:30in just a few minutes stay tuned to consider this
13:32you
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