00:00We're used to American presidents and politicians, they exaggerate, they tell jokes, but, I mean, Trump out and out tells
00:10lies about small things as well as large things.
00:15And we're used to covering presidents and just writing about all the things they say.
00:21And that becomes really difficult with this president because some of the things he says, you know, change the next
00:27day or they're nonsensical.
00:29They don't make any sense or he's kidding or he's joking about major efforts.
00:34I mean, if you just look at his comments about the war in Iran, he's gone from, as the Times
00:41and others have chronicled, he has repeatedly said it's almost over.
00:45It's going to be over. It'll be over tomorrow.
00:48And each time he said it, we cover it as if it's a really serious thing, as we should.
00:55But then, at a certain point, it just doesn't happen.
00:59It's really difficult to cover him.
01:01He also has such disdain for the press.
01:05He attacks us.
01:06He tries to undermine the things we say.
01:10He attacks us all in a very personal way.
01:13He files frivolous lawsuits.
01:15I think he's pretty much said that what he's trying to do is undermine our message.
01:21So what do we do to counter that?
01:23First off, I think we have to be very aggressive in our coverage of him.
01:29He is an important investigative story.
01:34We've put a lot of energy from the first term and the second term in covering his finances, how his
01:40finances have benefited from it.
01:42I think you have to not get rattled by him, not play his game.
01:49One of the reasons that when I was the editor and also my successor, has discouraged people from getting into
01:56battles on Twitter with him or the people around him, is I think that undermines us.
02:02I think that there's a certain reader who sees us as part of this theater, part of this game.
02:10And I think if we fall for that, it hurts us.
02:14So I think we have to report very aggressively, be fair, try to understand the forces that cause him to
02:22be elected,
02:22and also really very aggressively cover the changes he's brought to the country and try to not get into arguments
02:32with him because you can't win those.
02:35First off, you do not want the reader to see you as part of this war, this game.
02:40You do not want the reader to see you as on one side or the other.
02:45You do not want the reader to see you as an enemy who's combating.
02:50You don't want the reader to see you as the opposition because if they do that, they won't trust what
02:57you have to say.
02:58If you write in a powerful investigative story about Donald Trump and you have cast yourself as the enemy of
03:06Donald Trump, they're not going to believe you.
03:09They're just going to think it's another hit job that you're doing as opposed to a truthful investigative story.
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