- 11 hours ago
In an exclusive interview with Ians, filmmaker and writer Vikram Bhatt sat down for a candid conversation covering a wide range of topics, from his deep connection with music and fond memories of creating the soundtrack of Kasoor to his thoughts on perfectionism in cinema and his long association with Aamir Khan. He also shared his views on geopolitics, India's growing role on the global stage, and reflected on 12 years of governance under Narendra Modi. In an insightful discussion, Bhatt revealed what he would write in a letter to the Prime Minister and spoke about the courage required for India to maintain a balanced and independent position in an increasingly polarized world.
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00:01Hello Vikram sir, welcome to ANS.
00:03First of all, if you could share how did you arrive at the idea?
00:11And how did you eventually create the entire world of this?
00:14What are you known as the specialist for?
00:18This is in English?
00:20English indeed, whatever.
00:24So, we had made a film called Haunted 15 years back.
00:31Though this is not in any way a sequel.
00:38But Mimo and Mithunda and all of us, we were sitting together and had a story.
00:49So, Mithunda said, Vikram, you can create this.
00:53Mimo, you can create this.
01:01So, I always had this story.
01:25So, when you live with the story for so long.
01:31You know how to set up characters?
01:33How do you set up?
01:34How do you set up?
01:38How do you keep the passion still burning?
01:41You have to tell the story.
01:42No matter how the world around me changes.
01:44People around me, the society around me changes.
01:46I have to tell the story.
01:49See, there are two kinds of, I would say directors.
01:57One, who are filmmakers.
02:00One, who are filmmakers.
02:00And one, who are directors.
02:03Directors lose interest.
02:06Filmmakers don't lose interest.
02:11Because a director is a director because he wants to be a director.
02:17And a filmmaker is a filmmaker because he is dying to tell a story.
02:27And that's the difference.
02:29And I would think that I am a filmmaker.
02:34And talking about the world of horror, what is it about this world, the universe,
02:40all the things of horror that attract you as a filmmaker or makes you naturally have a natural affinity to
02:48go to stress?
02:55I think I really feel fear.
03:02And I have a connection with fear.
03:07I think fear is the basis of all other emotions in the world.
03:13If you look carefully, fear of losing someone is possessiveness.
03:21Fear of not having enough is greed.
03:26Fear of being lonely is relationships.
03:30Fear of being left behind is compassion.
03:33Competitiveness.
03:36The world is guided by fear.
03:40But most of us don't understand it as fear.
03:45We understand it as possessiveness and greed and so on and so forth.
03:51Even gluttony.
03:52The fear that you won't get enough food.
03:56Is security about that?
03:58I think, you know, if you look very closely, a lot of the populace lives in fear.
04:08And you will be surprised when I say this.
04:11When a BST bus comes and stops at a bus stop, we suddenly break the queue and everybody wants to
04:18rush in.
04:19Because there is a fear that you won't get onto that bus.
04:24And you don't know when the next one will come.
04:29There is a fear that if you don't break the signal, you don't know how long you will have to
04:33wait.
04:36These are fears manifesting itself in very strange ways.
04:44So the world, you know, lives.
04:48And why just the world?
04:50I mean, the entire animal kingdom is based on fear.
04:54Fear is the only emotion that even a single-celled creature feels.
05:00Because fear is essential for survival.
05:05If I look at a tiger and I don't feel fear, I'll get eaten.
05:10My fear keeps me alive.
05:15So fear is the closest thing for survival.
05:20And as a filmmaker, I have always made stories on darker relationships, on darker perspectives.
05:36And so it doesn't come to me as a surprise that I am close to fear.
05:43The exploration of darker romance or a darker relationship cinematically, how does it come to you?
05:49Is it something within your subconscious or you look around and you draw comfort?
05:54I think it's in all of us.
06:01We are all our Google histories.
06:06If you have the guts to lay down your Google search history openly, it won't be the person you are.
06:19You are what you Google.
06:24So, that person is in us.
06:27In all of us.
06:31And I like to explore that person.
06:34And continuing further on that, what would be your last research?
06:38What is your area of interest in geopolitics?
06:41What would that generally interest you when you are looking around to grab some knowledge?
06:46I mean, I am a science buff and a technology buff.
06:50So, most of my time goes in that.
06:56But I love F1.
06:57And I follow the F1 series very well.
07:02Have you told me you should stick it out there?
07:03At Monaco?
07:06No, no. That was Antonelli.
07:09He is having some season.
07:11Five in a row.
07:12Sensational for a 19-year-old.
07:16So, yeah.
07:18I mean, I am an F1 freak.
07:23Other than that, I don't relate to many sports.
07:29I can't get into IPL.
07:31I don't know most of the players.
07:34That way I am quite Addison Munderland.
07:40Yeah, geopolitics interests me.
07:45Op-eds interest me.
07:48Opinions of world economic professors,
07:58of geopolitical speakers,
08:01you know, that impresses me.
08:06Absorbs me.
08:08So, yeah.
08:09That's kind of like the geek I am.
08:15And when I look at your filmography,
08:18very celebrated and illustrious filmography.
08:20Of course, great music also there.
08:21Which is again a sign of a great filmmaker.
08:23To marry music to your story.
08:25That's something that every filmmaker is able to do.
08:30To have that objectivity throughout the years.
08:33To not let the market forces impact your sense of music,
08:36or your taste of music.
08:37What does it take for you as a filmmaker?
08:41You see, I only feel one thing,
08:43that you can't intellectualize music.
08:48You know?
08:52It's like getting turned on.
08:55Why does a certain person turn you on,
09:00and a certain person doesn't turn you on?
09:03Why does some fantasy turn you on,
09:05and another fantasy doesn't turn you on?
09:06You can't fake it.
09:09You can't fake being turned on.
09:11You can't convince yourself to be turned on.
09:16You either are or you're not.
09:19Similarly,
09:22if you don't intellectualize music,
09:24and when you hear a song for the first time,
09:26then you allow it to hear it with your body,
09:29and not with your mind.
09:31If you allow it to make you feel something,
09:36then at least you'll be making a song that one person likes,
09:39and that is you.
09:41But if you end up making a song,
09:44that you might not like,
09:46but you think people would like,
09:49I think the chances of failing are more in that respect.
09:55But in this regard,
09:56I don't like one film.
09:58The film will be people who are most of us.
09:59The music was a very good one.
10:00That's Kasur.
10:02Titles are there.
10:03That film,
10:04Hulidh Sir,
10:05Hummarshan Sir,
10:06You,
10:06Radhim Sharmad Sir.
10:08What are your fondest memories of working on that film,
10:10and that soundtrack?
10:12Kasur?
10:14Kasur is one of my favourite films.
10:18Sometimes shooting Kasoor was a joy with Lisa, with Aftab, I have very fond memories.
10:26It was also my first film after Gulaam and people were wondering why I would not work
10:34with a very big star and make a very big film and why was I working with them and making
10:38Kasoor. But I think we could see a change in the horizon in films. We could see that thrillers
10:52and at that time, let's be honest, erotic thrillers and films with erotica and good music were
10:59going to be the recipe for the next decade is something that, er, you know, I was pretty
11:09sure of and therefore Kasoor. And, er, you know, the music reflected that passion and that intensity.
11:27So, I think that's why, I mean, Kasoor didn't do as well as Raaz, but people remember Kasoor
11:34a lot.
11:38And continuing further on that, you know, you said that erotic thrillers were the recipe for
11:42the coming decade, during that, Kasoor. The bursting of the dot com bubble and the maturation
11:49of the economic policy of individuals in the 1990s. Do you think somewhere these factors
11:53led to audience's more active perception of diversity of people because they had options
11:58at their disposal?
12:00More than that, I think there was, er, you know, bodies like the CBFC and the government
12:09were becoming more and more mature and more and more lenient. And they were, as far as the
12:17film was considered adult, they were more and more agreeable for you to make different films,
12:26try different films. I don't think a film like Kasoor would have passed in 80s, 70s, 80s.
12:34I think it would have definitely hit a roadblock. The heroine is being seduced by the villain
12:43and she is sleeping with him and then is blaming herself. I mean, you know, the audience had
12:51matured to a point where they wouldn't call her a Kulakshini or a Kulta for sleeping with
12:58a man who had been accused of killing his wife. So I think the audience actually decides
13:13what film you make. And the more mature and accepting an audience gets, the happier the filmmaker is.
13:42I mean, I would think it's more or less the same. You are allowed some cuss words, you are not
13:47allowed some cuss words. Some kind of nudity is acceptable.
13:51Some kind of nudity is not acceptable. And that has not changed. And that's fair. I mean, you know, I
13:58am saying that
14:04we should keep them. We should not have to be another country. We should be India. And if India has
14:17certain principles of public entertainment, then we should maintain them.
14:26They are not stringent anymore. You have lots more liberty to do what you want. I mean, they are allowing
14:34films with so much blood and gore. So much violence is being allowed.
14:41So then I think comes a sense of self-censorship. That how much can I push this? What can I
14:49show? And that perhaps is where we are now.
15:00So I mean, except for films that are of a political nature and are made to incite a kind of
15:11political unrest, you are pretty much okay to make any film in this country.
15:19And I see a pattern in these 25 years that some films didn't get to see the light of the
15:24day. Black Friday was one that comes to my mind.
15:28Later on, you know, some Supreme coaches who saw the film monitor and downloaded and then that's how the film
15:33made it to the theaters.
15:35Same thing happens again. There are a few films that are still waiting to see the light of the day.
15:39Do you think this will be a constant that while a large section of cinema is made available to people
15:46by the CDFC, there will be some films which will always be in the camps?
15:52You know, that's what I am trying to say. Black Friday is a very good film. But I don't know
16:01if at the time of release, it was probably not the right time.
16:08Because, you know, all the TADA cases were not heard, if I am not mistaken. And it was irresponsible for
16:18the CBFC, not for the filmmaker.
16:21But to certify a film when the courts hadn't decided on a matter. And such a film would influence.
16:33So, I think they are well within their right to say, listen, let this play out.
16:40It's like we have seen a show like the Lee Crime on the Nirbhaya case. And it's been allowed. And
16:47there is no problem with it.
16:48But I don't know if it would be allowed while that thing was going on.
16:53You know, because I am sure there are some law and order concerns.
17:00There is no duty at all.
17:01So, you know, and CBFC being a government body, a part of the ministry is obviously careful that they are
17:12not breaking the law or influencing people at a time where the case is still sub-judice.
17:25And you spoke about Gulam, one of my favourite friends of yours. Amir Sarabhar was about to get married next
17:30month reportedly.
17:33Tell me, as an actor, when you work with him, there is an actor Amir Khan and then there is
17:37a person Amir Khan.
17:38Are these two diametrically opposite to each other? And if yes, how does he manage to, or how do both
17:44of you manage to bring him to a platform?
17:50I don't see the difference between Amir the actor and Amir the person. Because I think, I don't know, but
17:59this is my feeling on Amir, is that he does films that resonate with him as a person.
18:09Which is why you don't see a difference between his on-screen characters and his real-life person. Because I
18:19have seen that he decides to do a film or not do a film when it agrees with his insides.
18:28When it resonates with him as a person. He is not very experimental. I mean, he won't do a film
18:40just because he wants to do some kind of make-up or he wants to just play villain because he
18:50is bored or something like that.
18:51That's not him. This is my understanding. I am not an authority on Amir's mind. But this is how I
18:59see him.
19:00And does that make him a perfectionist to be really sure of what he is doing and not be too
19:05experimental in his approach?
19:08You know, I just feel that he has been given this tag of perfectionist, but…
19:14He is not a perfectionist. He just wants to do his best.
19:21And I think there is a difference between the two things. Because it's like I know that I can do
19:29better. I know that this is not my best.
19:35And if I decide to settle and say fine for me. Versus a person who says, listen, I can do
19:41better. I know I can do better.
19:45That is not a perfectionist. That is a person who is striving. That is a person who is, you know,
19:52wanting to give his best. Not his perfection. But his best.
19:59So just because someone doesn't treat their career and their profession as something that they are okay with passing off,
20:10even when they know that they haven't given a hundred percent.
20:15I would much prefer someone like Aamir who is… And, you know, Aamir and I have had disagreements during the
20:22issue of Tim Kunam when I said this is better and that is better.
20:27But it was always… He has always said yes and no. Or he has always argued with his directors. When
20:38he saw that there has been some kind of a compromise.
20:44And it's a known compromise. See, sometimes you don't know better. You know, sometimes you don't know that, oh, you
20:53can have used a Mercedes for this scene but you ended up using another car which is not as luxurious.
20:57And then you realize later. But when you know that it's available and that it should be this thing and
21:01you don't use it.
21:03That, I think, is something that irks him. Of course, as you say that this is… These views expressed are
21:13only of the speaker. That's mine.
21:16And not necessarily what Aamir is or what he thinks of himself. But this is my understanding.
21:25Okay. And moving forward, Ankahi, again, one of my all-time favorite musical books. Every song is, I really think
21:33of, three versions of Eqbal Kili, he said, you have to be perfectly. You become the…
21:40And let us for say, are the producer or someone who has a name?
21:43Samir sir.
21:44Samir sir, yeah. Tell me, what was the mahal inside the studio or what were you, when you were jamming
21:50on the soundtrack? What was the vibe, the pavement between the three of the tradition?
21:56So, Preetabh and I just met twice, actually. He had most of the songs ready. These were tunes he had
22:02worked on.
22:03Then Samir Bhai and I sat down and we worked the lyrics up. But the music was ready like in
22:10a week.
22:11Oh, very fast.
22:12Very fast.
22:16So, I mean, the journey of creating music for Ankahi is not something that stands as a memorable struggle. Let
22:28us just say it was good music that came easy.
22:31To take an idea and to then project it cinematically in front of a large audience, what's that process for
22:37you like, step by step as an artist?
22:40What are the emotions that you deal with writing, telling us what you are before you are about?
22:44You know, there has to be something that excites me. There has to be something that you are dying to
22:50tell.
22:53You know, even as a kid, when you have something amazing, you keep saying, mom, mom, mom, listen to me,
22:58mom, listen to me, mom, listen to me.
23:00And mom saying, what is it? And then you say something and mom says, really? Or she says, okay, big
23:05deal.
23:07So, I think every filmmaker is that child. Who is telling the audience, audience, audience, listen to me, listen to
23:13me, listen to me, listen to me. I got this great one.
23:15You know, I got this great one for you. And when you feel that excitement, you should make the film.
23:23And two more questions quickly. At the start of this interview, you said that you know, you finally had the
23:27technology to tell a story like 1003D.
23:30This reminds me of a letter in 2014 that you wrote for PM Modi. I think it was a feature
23:363D.
23:37You know, that we finally have the tech that we needed to do.
23:41Yeah.
23:43Today, when you look at it, the film that you have made, vis-a-vis India that we see today,
23:50what would be, if you had to write a letter to PM Modi, what would the content of that letter
23:53be?
23:57I would tell the PM that, sir, we are at the cusp of life-changing technology in entertainment.
24:13And Haunted Echoes of the Heart is one of the first films to be made by that technology.
24:19And I would please like you to watch it. And should you appreciate it, please ask your secretary to say
24:38hello to us.
24:50You know, we should have leaders who we can trust, who we can look up to, who we are proud
25:01of.
25:04But most of all, who can take us, take care of us in the time of dire need.
25:16What Modi ji has been able to do is instill a faith in us that we are not going to
25:25be cowed down by other forces.
25:30Whether it is the U.S.-Iraq conflict. Whether it is the unfair taxes that were laid on us, tariffs.
25:48Or whether it is Belgaam.
25:56He stood up and he said, thus far and no further.
26:03Because for too long we were at the mercy of these kind of attacks.
26:10Where we did not find any comeuppance. We did not find anyone taking up for us.
26:20And as a filmmaker, everyone wants a revenge story. For that, Modi ji is our hero.
26:45I think India has done remarkably well in remaining non-aligned.
26:54In the present time, when most of the countries have chosen one side or the other, our government has been
27:06able to stay neutral.
27:09And I think neutrality is, it takes a lot of courage.
27:19Because there is never pressure from the person who is on the weaker side.
27:28But there is always a lot of pressure from the bigger power to take their line of understanding, of communication.
27:44And our government has not done that.
27:52We haven't said you wrong, he right, or he right, you wrong.
27:58We have condemned wrongdoings, regardless of the country.
28:04And we have appreciated the right ones, regardless of the country.
28:09And I think that's a very rare sign of a mature democracy.
28:17That doesn't feel the need for alignment for survival.
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