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The Cook Up with Adam Liaw - Season 9 Episode 48 - Modern Indian
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00:22Hello, I'm Adam Liao and welcome to The Cook-Up, a clinical strength solution to all your dinner
00:26problems. On tonight's menu, chaat snack pack, cauliflower makhani steak and chicken curry tacos.
00:32Hmm, let's meet our guests. As a cook, writer and founder of the Mondesi, Bhavna Shivalka is on a
00:38mission to showcase the diversity of Indian cuisine. She has worked with Kylie Kwong,
00:42Maeva Mara and the Powerhouse Museum and she says that chaats are her weakness. Hello, Bhavna.
00:48Thank you for having me, Adam. Thanks for coming. Justin Narayan is a rebel with a cause. He wants
00:52you to take his family's recipes and do what you want with them. The MasterChef winner and
00:56cookbook author says that there are no rules as long as it tastes great. I cannot wait to see him
01:01test the limits tonight. Hello, Justin. Hello. Justin, why do you want people to take your family
01:06recipes and muck around with them? I think I just want to give people permission to not have to make
01:14it perfect. You know, I feel like sometimes it's kind of like take this recipe and there's this weight
01:18to it. It's kind of like just take it and just kind of loosen up people a little bit. Amazing.
01:24I
01:25completely agree. Like we stress too much about cooking. We honestly do. Bhavna, what is chaat
01:31and why do you love it so? Chaat is a type of Indian street food. So it's basically to lick
01:38your
01:38plate and your fingers, right? The whole point is you're enjoying all these textural contrasts.
01:45You're enjoying different flavours and different, you know, sour, sweet, hot, cold. Yeah. Everything
01:51in one bite. Well, this is my pitch both for an SBS sitcom and a type of food. We will
01:56be cooking
01:57tonight, modern Indian. Amazing. I can't wait for the sitcom. Yeah. The curry detective. Hey, hang on a
02:07second. Modern Indian food, does it exist currently and what does it look like now? Typically eating
02:15out in India was not a concept back in the day. Yeah. It was considered bad if you ate out.
02:21There
02:21were many reasons for it, ritual purity, religious reasons, people couldn't afford it. But now over a
02:26period of time with people travelling so much around the world, women working, everyone has now got like a
02:33palate and everyone wants to try new things. So compared to when I moved to Australia 15 years
02:38ago, India now has a very dynamic modern food scene where they are doing local Indian produce
02:46and making it much more approachable for anyone who's not eaten Indian food as well. Amazing.
02:53Justin, modern Indian, that would like literally, that could be the title of your book. Like this
02:57is right in your wheelhouse. What's your take on modern Indian food?
03:00Yeah. Yeah. I think it's kind of giving us, I mean, by us, I mean everyone in the world right
03:07now permission to kind of do what they want with Indian food. Yes. Because I think at one
03:14point in time and a lot of the like people from India that have travelled across the world,
03:19they were so intense on preserving the recipes and the tradition and this is how you do everything
03:25and this is how it all happens. But where those dishes came from was out of necessity and need
03:31and making inedible things edible and the season and what was growing and Indian food was this moving
03:37organic machine of a thing that was just using what was in the backyard. And so now that we've
03:45gone all over the world, like Indians are kind of everywhere, you know, we're in Australia now.
03:50So what grows in Australia that makes, like takes the Indian philosophy and the way of thinking of
03:56how my ancestors would have thought about food and gone, what, what, how can I use that to make
04:03these ingredients? Because there's abundance and I can get what I got in India. I feel like I need to
04:08be able to make those dishes, but it's like, oh, we're in, the world's changing and we're kind of in
04:13these different places now. So for me, it's just using what we currently have to still make what
04:18at its core, I think is Indian food. Amazing. Well, my modern Indian dish is, don't scoff,
04:25a chaat snack bag.
04:31So I think that quite often when you talk about modernising a cuisine, I don't know, for some reason
04:37we've got into our mind that it's like chefs going and doing these, these things and making it fancy,
04:42but in my view, it's actually quite the opposite. You know, if you look at the way cuisine evolves,
04:47it's usually just, as you say, Justin, people going to another part of the world and using what
04:54they have and using the influences that are available to them to create something new. And so if you look
05:01at say Western Sydney, where you've got all of these kind of areas where you have a lot of people
05:07from
05:08the subcontinent there, but you also have, you know, a lot of people from the Middle East,
05:12Lebanese heritage, that kind of thing. But for me, it was like, what if you took Indian street food
05:16and turned it into kind of Australian street food? What would a chaat snack pack look like?
05:20So that's what this is.
05:21A hundred percent. And a snack pack, it doesn't exist in the Middle Eastern countries.
05:27It's almost an Australian dish. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm just toasting off here. I've got some
05:32carom seeds, some fennel seeds, black pepper, coriander and cardamom. And I'm just going to toast
05:40those. You can smell the aroma. Yeah, it smells quite nice. It's really interesting when you talk
05:48about restaurant culture in India, how restaurants weren't really a thing. And I guess for, it's
05:57almost this weird thing, even in a lot of other countries, the idea of restaurants making restaurant
06:04food that was different to home cooking is a really strange one. You know, even when you look
06:09at Indian recipes and things that says this is Daba style or restaurant style or hotel style,
06:14it's like, this is the home style dish, but they're just putting more ingredients into it to make it
06:18more restauranty. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to blend these now because I want this to be a powder
06:22and they're still quite hot. But what I'm going to do is actually use the heat from these to develop
06:27some of the flavor and some of the other ingredients that I'm putting in there. I don't know if that's
06:31like a... That's a genius move. Cool down some of the spices, but also... I have this dilemma all the
06:37time and now I'm just going to use this. I'm like, this is genius. So I've got some sour things.
06:43I've got
06:43some mango powder. I got some chili in there, obviously. I'm going to put some salt in there as
06:48well. And then also some black salt. I'm so happy to see that you're using mango powder
06:54because mango powder is a huge component of charts or street food in India. I've used quite a lot in
07:00here too. A couple of tablespoons. Yeah, it's just amazing. You can never have enough. Mango powder is a great
07:03ingredient. It just brings up, pops the dish up without making it too sour. So I'm just going to
07:09list this up into a bit of a powder. Before that's ready to go, I'm just going to chop a
07:14few other
07:14ingredients. Ironically, Justin, Indian cuisines are some of the most well-travelled in the world.
07:24You know, there are lots of countries from tikka masalas in Britain to obviously in Fiji or Malaysia
07:32or Singapore or so many places along those maritime spice routes where you have, at some stage,
07:42modern Indian cuisines is bringing up everything. Yeah. Like in South Africa, they do that.
07:47Bani chow. Bani chow, right? Yeah, yeah. Which is like, and I always tell people that before
07:53sourdough took over the world and now no one wants to be associated with white bread. You know,
07:59white bread dipped in a chicken curry. Yeah. It's just a delight. Yeah, yeah. It just soaks it all up.
08:06Yeah. And it's so delicious. My friend from school is South African Indian and his mum made curries
08:12and there was nothing else on the table. And I'm like, wait, what's going on? Are there bread or
08:16rice? And she just, loaf of Wonder White just lands on the table. And we had curries with like
08:22sliced bread and just treated it like a roti. And I was like, what is going on? This is blowing
08:26my mind.
08:27Well, you know how you have papadoms and things. I have a friend who would always eat like curry and
08:31rice with potato chips. Like just put potato chips there for crunch. What's the name of the flat
08:36bread? Well, it's not flat in, in, um, in Goa that had, that's had, yeah, poi, the, the, the yeasted
08:42one that rises up like, like a sourdough. Toddy, they would use toddy. Yeah. And then they started
08:46using yeast because the Portuguese, the Portuguese, when they came, there was no more wine left after
08:51being on a ship for like six months. Yeah. So they used the coconut sap and made toddy and used
08:57that to ferment it. One of my favorite modern Indian breakfast, if I would call it that is
09:03using leftover vegetable dishes. So for example, a cauliflower and potato, alugobi. Yes. And
09:10I'll put some shredded mozzarella, like store-bought, highly processed shredded mozzarella and some
09:15kimchi. Wow. And I'll put it on white bread and I'll toast it like a jaffel. And it's just
09:21the most delicious thing ever. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty good to go. So I'm just going to start
09:27to fry my chips for my snack pack. This is the kind of thing that will inevitably turn
09:32up at some point, you know, like a, you'll have a gyros wrapped in roti. So I'm just taking
09:40my frozen chips, just like you, if just imagine you're in a kebab shop or something.
09:46I almost feel like we've had a big night out and I've rocked up to your house at two or
09:503am and you're like, are you guys on a snack pack? I'm like, yeah. And we're just like,
09:56this is awesome. I think if that happened, like if you were in your early twenties or
10:00something and that happened, you'd still be telling stories about it 20 years later.
10:04Yeah. My chips are starting to brown. I think I can probably throw my falafel in as well.
10:09These are just, you know, pre-prepared falafel as well. I just wanted to add something that
10:14was, I guess, I don't know, vegetarian, but also, you know, that you'd find in a kebab
10:21shop. Yeah. So I'll just blend my chaat masala.
10:30I don't want it to be like completely powdered. A bit of texture to it, but it smells great.
10:42Nice.
10:47Whee! You can really taste the black salt. It's quite powerful. It's kind of, I don't know,
10:53almost eggy in a way. Yeah. Sulfuric smell. All right. These are looking good.
11:00I'll serve it in true snack pack style. So good.
11:07And
11:10drain these off first.
11:20I'll give that
11:25a seasoning of salt now.
11:30and a good sprinkle of the chaat masala. Then I think I'm going to top it with just some
11:35yoghurt. That looks great.
11:39I don't think it's the kind of chaat that you would see in India, but it's the kind of
11:42chaat that you might see in Australia.
11:45Also, the fact that you made your own homemade chaat masala.
11:48It's okay. You've won.
11:52Dayton chammer and chutney going on there. And then we'll give it a sprinkle of just a few
11:59fresh bits and pieces. Not overdoing it because like you say, it's 3am. You don't need too many
12:04vegetables at that point. You want to clog at least one artery with the snack pack. Not too many.
12:08And then a bit of extra chaat masala on top. I don't know. Let's see if it works. Chaat snack
12:14pack.
12:14So good.
12:15It's good.
12:22Feels wrong to eat this in a bowl with like real cutlery, but tastes good.
12:27What you're trying to say is it feels wrong to eat it sober.
12:30It just works beautifully. It's an Australian chaat.
12:33Yeah. So good.
12:35It's brilliant. I like it.
12:37After the break, more modern Indian from Bhavna and Justin.
12:53Welcome back to The Cook Up. I have asked Indian cuisine innovators Bhavna Shavalka and
12:57Justin Narayan to make some modern Indian. Bhavna, what is your dish today?
13:01I'm making a cauliflower steak, Makini.
13:03Oh, lovely. And Justin, how about you?
13:05Chicken curry tacos.
13:06Oh, amazing.
13:16Justin, what you doing?
13:17Well, I'm making a marinade for the chicken curry tacos.
13:23So the concept here was everything my mum puts in her chicken curry, I put into a blender,
13:31blitz, and then smother over the chicken.
13:33And then that is our chicken curry taco.
13:36Amazing.
13:37Why not?
13:37So a whole bunch of spices.
13:39Yeah.
13:40Usual suspects or?
13:42Yeah.
13:42Yeah. So again, like a little bit lighter on the lighter side. So it's heavier with cumin,
13:47coriander, turmeric, garam masala, chilli.
13:52Okay.
13:53And then we just give that a blitz.
13:57And a secret ingredient.
13:59Yeah.
14:01Mum doesn't usually cook with is smoked paprika.
14:04Oh, fantastic.
14:04But that just adds like, you know, smokiness to it.
14:07I love smoked paprika as an ingredient.
14:10And I think, particularly because you're on tacos, why not?
14:14A hundred percent.
14:17I get asked quite a bit why I decided to go on MasterChef.
14:21Yeah.
14:21All those many moons ago.
14:22You must get asked that a lot.
14:24Yeah.
14:24Yeah, I do.
14:25And I'm about to ask you again.
14:26Well, it was one of those things where I actually never thought I was like good enough to go
14:34on MasterChef.
14:34I don't know how you felt.
14:35Yeah, same.
14:35But it was always like my friends and family were like, oh yeah, you're a really good cook.
14:39You should do it someday.
14:40And I'm like, yeah, you don't know.
14:43Like, and I was what, you were what, season, early season.
14:46Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:46I was like, Adam, they're crazy.
14:47They're real cooks.
14:48They know what they're doing.
14:49And I have no idea what's going on.
14:52And so I never had the confidence.
14:53And then one day, you know, you're kind of bored and you're contemplating life and you're
14:57kind of like, what do I really want to do with life?
14:59Yeah.
14:59And I'm like, I think I want to get into food like full time.
15:02So I registered a business, was going to start like a taco truck.
15:06Yeah.
15:07And then my now wife was like, hey, you should just apply for the show.
15:11I'm like, yeah, no, not really.
15:14And I decided to do it.
15:15And then the rest was kind of history and kind of gained some confidence along the way
15:20and learned, you know, a lot of skills along the way as well.
15:23Congratulations, mate.
15:24You're like, you've had such great success and you got an amazing cookbook.
15:28I'm glad you did it.
15:29I'm sure you're glad you did it as well.
15:30Oh, thank you so much.
15:30This is looking great.
15:31I can't wait to see how it turns out.
15:35Bhavna.
15:35Yes.
15:36Adam.
15:37Cauliflower makhni.
15:38Yep.
15:39Makhni means butter in Hindi?
15:41Buttery, yes.
15:41Or butter.
15:42I guess this is a vegetarian-ish version of butter chicken.
15:46Yes, sort of.
15:47Where does butter chicken come from?
15:48Which part of India?
15:48So it comes from the north.
15:50Yeah.
15:51The story goes that after the India-Pakistan partition, there were three friends who moved
15:58from Punjab in Pakistan to Punjab in India and they set up a restaurant and they would
16:03use an oven called a tandoor.
16:05Yes.
16:06Yes.
16:06And what they did was they started to sell this chicken, which was like a tandoori chicken
16:10with lots of red color and everything.
16:13And these were the days when there was no refrigeration, so a lot of the chicken would go waste.
16:17Oh, okay.
16:18So what they decided was to make a sauce.
16:21Yeah.
16:21Which was basically a tomato sauce with lots of cream and butter in it.
16:26Yes.
16:26And dunk the chicken in it and voila, butter chicken was born.
16:30So basically it's a dish that came from leftover tandoori chicken.
16:34Correct.
16:35So you're essentially making a tandoori-ish kind of paste.
16:38Correct.
16:38That you're putting onto cauliflower instead.
16:40Yes.
16:40Very cool.
16:41And that's just going to go in the oven and roast?
16:42Correct.
16:42Just going to go in the oven, we'll roast it until it's done and make the sauce.
16:45Lovely.
16:52I love the way that the color of turmeric kind of increases after you leave it for a little
16:57while.
16:58Ah, it's the best.
16:59Especially on your fingernails after you've been eating Indian food all night.
17:05Fantastic.
17:06So the chicken's just grilling away.
17:08It's just grilling away.
17:09And in here, what are we making?
17:10In here, we are making a coriander chutney.
17:13So I've got a little bit of lime juice, coriander, garlic, green chili.
17:16And then I'm just going to go in with a quarter of our yogurt in here.
17:21I find if you put in all the yogurt and blitz it up, it goes too loose.
17:25So I still want it to have some thickness and body.
17:28Yeah, right.
17:30What's one thing that you've learnt about cooking over the years that you wish more people knew
17:35about?
17:36I think it's easier and simpler than I think we make it out to be sometimes.
17:41Yeah.
17:41I think sometimes we kind of put a lot of pressure on it.
17:45And there's some dishes that are just made for sustenance.
17:49You know what I mean?
17:49Like it doesn't need to look incredible.
17:51It just has to taste good, get a job done.
17:54Like that is, there's different parts to cooking.
17:56It's not all art and expression.
17:58Some of it is just nature and like, I mean, nurture and sustenance.
18:03You know, I completely agree with you.
18:05And you start to think, oh my God, there's so much food out there.
18:08I know nothing.
18:09Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:10But you throw a couple of things into a pan, put some salt on it, take it back out.
18:13It's going to be delicious.
18:14Like simple food is absolutely delicious.
18:16100%.
18:17Yeah, I agree with you.
18:18And I think like people need to be cooking more.
18:22I think shows like this are actually part of the solution in a way because it makes it
18:26accessible and normal and you know what I mean?
18:29Like gives people ideas because like we need to keep gathering together.
18:33Keep sitting down at a dinner table, putting down our screens and just having some conversation
18:37and just eating food.
18:38That is so true.
18:39Like food has always been more than just, hey, let's eat something.
18:44It's been this moment and I think parents know this.
18:47It's the one moment where you sit down and you've got your kids undivided attention.
18:50Yeah, yeah.
18:51It's, you know, if you've got three generations around the table and I know that you grew up
18:54with your grandparents in the house as well.
18:56Yes.
18:56It's this enormous transfer of, you know, both culture and love and just general information.
19:05How was your day?
19:06What do you think?
19:07Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:07How do you think?
19:09100%.
19:09This is going to be some good tacos.
19:11It smells amazing already.
19:12Oh, thank you.
19:15Bhavna.
19:16Oh, so this is the makhni sauce.
19:19Correct.
19:19Yes.
19:20So it's just the sauce.
19:20I've sauteed the onions with black cardamoms and cinnamon in butter and a little bit of
19:26oil.
19:27Tomato puree goes in for that punch.
19:29Okay.
19:30And I've got some blanched and peeled tomatoes here because I'm going to make a paste out
19:35of this.
19:35Yeah, okay.
19:36So I'm not even going to bother to chop them.
19:38Yeah, right.
19:39Bhavna, what's something that you have learned about cooking that you wish more people knew
19:43about?
19:43I think one thing to remember is recipes are just yardsticks.
19:48Unless you're baking where everything has to be like a perfect measurement.
19:52Yeah.
19:53With cooking, you don't always have to stick to the recipe.
19:56If a recipe calls for a teaspoon of chili powder, you're someone who can't eat that
20:00much or can eat more.
20:02You can increase it a little bit, you know.
20:04And I believe, honestly, as long as you're making food with love, go for it.
20:08I strongly agree.
20:10When we return, it is time to taste and Bhavna will teach us how to cut down on food waste.
20:27Welcome back to The Cook Up.
20:28Bhavna, Shivalka and Justin Narayan are making some magnificent modern Indian.
20:33Bhavna, how's it looking?
20:34It's almost done.
20:35I think it looks great.
20:37Justin, these are smelling like some fantastic tacos.
20:43I've got the tortillas heated up, chickens on, some shredded cabbage over the top for
20:48some freshness and crunch.
20:50And then we're going to hit this with our coriander chutney.
20:54Oh, lovely.
20:56Almost like a Mexican crema, right?
20:58Yeah, right.
20:59Okay.
21:00Good call.
21:00And then a tortilla is basically a roti.
21:03Yeah.
21:05And then we're going to go on with some, I just think like a little pickled roundish is always
21:11really nice.
21:11Looks great too.
21:12And then we're going to go on with a little sprinkle of coriander because why not?
21:18These look beautiful.
21:19I love the colour on it.
21:21Love it.
21:23Bhavna.
21:24Yes.
21:24Wow.
21:25Look at this.
21:25This is fancy stuff.
21:27I know, right?
21:28So I've got the makhni sauce on the plate and after I blended it in a blender, I've added
21:34a little bit of chopped coriander in it for that fragrant smell that you love.
21:40I've put it on a plate and I've put some raisins for a little bit of sweetness.
21:44And we've got these beautiful cauliflower steaks that I'm just going to pop them on the plate.
21:50Then we are going to add some pomegranate because colour and a little more sweetness.
21:56Amazing.
21:57A little more of the raisins.
22:00Some kasoori methi.
22:01It looks so refined.
22:03And there you go.
22:04Amazing.
22:04It's ready.
22:05Cauliflower makhni steak and chicken curry tacos.
22:17Bhavna, I love how this is a dish that looks so refined but is not complicated.
22:23Tastes so good.
22:24Yeah.
22:25You could replace the cauliflower with paneer or tofu.
22:29I actually don't miss the meat, to be honest.
22:31Not at all.
22:32With the savouriness you get on that cauliflower.
22:36I really like that the sweetness comes from somewhere you wouldn't expect.
22:39Like if I make butter chicken, I just put a bit of sugar in the sauce.
22:43But here it comes from the raisins and the pomegranate.
22:46Pomegranate, yes.
22:48So delicious.
22:49Yeah.
22:51Justin, chicken curry tacos.
22:53This is going to be a bit messy.
22:58The coriander chutney is wonderful.
23:00The fact that you've got yogi in the chutney there is very different from, you know, a
23:03picotica ayo or something like that.
23:05Yeah.
23:06The freshness of the coriander is just beautiful.
23:09These are two absolutely delicious dishes.
23:11And certainly modern Indian.
23:14Yeah.
23:15Bhavna, food waste is a really big thing in Australia.
23:19You know, about a third of the food that we buy, produce, goes into waste.
23:24It's extraordinary.
23:25And I think sometimes when we look at traditional cuisines, there are really great ways to ensure
23:34less waste that have developed over a long time.
23:37Can you give us some tips on how to reduce waste?
23:39So Indian kitchens are very eco-friendly and budget-friendly.
23:44For example, vegetable peels.
23:46Yes.
23:46So if I'm using a carrot or a potato, I'll not peel them.
23:50I'm just going to, you know, add them as it is.
23:52Same goes for ginger.
23:54Right?
23:54What we could do is use it to make, you know, chop them really finely and you could make
23:59fried rice out of the peels.
24:01Squeeze a lemon.
24:02We will make pickles out of the juice and add the squeezed lemon and make pickles out
24:07of it as well.
24:08Right.
24:08And then you actually eat this part as part of the pickle.
24:10Once it ferments and settles down, you can eat the whole thing.
24:14Any leftover vegetables in the fridge, and I've made a curry out of it, I will put that
24:18in sandwiches and make sandwiches for breakfast.
24:22Coriander stalks, I don't throw them away at all.
24:24I have a bag in my freezer full of coriander stalks.
24:27So if I'm making my awesome sauce, curry paste, if I'm doing a ginger-garlic paste, I'm throwing
24:32the coriander stalk in.
24:33It just adds a lovely, fresh aroma to your sauce and you're not wasting.
24:39Justin, how about you?
24:40Are there any tips that you have for keeping waste out of your kitchen?
24:43You know, I think the freezer is an epic invention.
24:47Like you just add, you know, save little bits of everything and it adds to become a lot over
24:52a period of time.
24:53And yeah, things between bread taste great.
24:57So any kind of leftovers, whatever it is, lasagna, curries, whatever, chuck it in a sandwich
25:03and it's pretty epic.
25:04And then blending things into a sauce, I think, like helps it stretch further.
25:09So I feel like those things kind of help.
25:12Just learning a little bit of how to use the little bits of waste that accumulate in your
25:16kitchen, like pickling a lemon peel, is a really useful thing.
25:20Bhavna, Justin, thank you so much for joining me today.
25:22This has been brilliant.
25:23Thank you, Adam.
25:24Thanks for having us.
25:25Thank you for having us.
25:26Tradition and nostalgia will always have their part to play in the kitchen, but putting modernity
25:30on the menu can breathe new life into your meals.
25:33If you want more of The Cook Up and more delicious food ideas, follow SBS Food on Instagram, TikTok,
25:37Facebook and YouTube.
25:38I'm Adam Lear.
25:39Thank you for watching The Cook Up.
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