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Diplomatie de l’UE sur l’Ukraine : quels résultats ? Eurodéputés dans The Ring
Guerre en Ukraine: incursions de drones russes, l'UE hésite sur la riposte et les dépenses de défense
LIRE L’ARTICLE : http://fr.euronews.com/2026/06/04/diplomatie-de-lue-sur-lukraine-quels-resultats-eurodeputes-dans-the-ring
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Guerre en Ukraine: incursions de drones russes, l'UE hésite sur la riposte et les dépenses de défense
LIRE L’ARTICLE : http://fr.euronews.com/2026/06/04/diplomatie-de-lue-sur-lukraine-quels-resultats-eurodeputes-dans-the-ring
Abonnez-vous à notre chaine. Euronews est disponible sur Dailymotion en 12 langues
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NewsTranscription
00:08Hello and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show, broadcasting from the European Parliament in Brussels.
00:16I'm Stefan Grobe.
00:17On The Ring, debaters go face-to-face on some of the biggest political issues facing Europe.
00:22Today, we want to talk about the latest from the war in Ukraine.
00:26What's the answer to Russian drone attacks? And what can European diplomacy achieve?
00:32Luis Alberto explains.
00:37As the war in Ukraine grinds into its fifth summer, a peaceful solution remains as elusive as ever.
00:44The same can be said about a clear European strategy.
00:48Nowhere is this more evident than in the European response to the ongoing violations of EU airspace by Russian drones.
00:56The latest incident in Romania last week yielded strong condemnation, but nothing more.
01:02This is frustrating especially the Baltic republics, who fear to be in the Russian crosshairs next.
01:09Is Europe just eager to avoid a more serious confrontation with Moscow?
01:13Are some European leaders concerned that they might jeopardize their potential role as mediators in this conflict?
01:18And is this even realistic, as Europe remains Ukraine's strongest political and economic backer?
01:29A lot to unpack here for our contenders. And here they are.
01:35Rasa Jugnavićine, a Lithuanian MEP from the Central-Right European People's Party.
01:40She is the vice-chair of the delegation to the Uranist Parliamentary Assembly and a member of the Committee of
01:46Foreign Affairs.
01:47One of the most outspoken voices on European security, she said,
01:51I do not believe in deals with Putin.
01:53Peace negotiations are possible, but only after a ceasefire.
01:57Merja Kulunin, a Finnish MEP from the left and a member of the Committee on Security and Defense.
02:04A former Finnish transport minister, she has been a vocal supporter of Ukraine
02:08and has called for frozen Russian assets to be made available to support the country.
02:13She has also warned against complacency towards Moscow.
02:16In some countries, there is still a naive attitude towards Russia, she said,
02:21arguing that Europe must take the Russian threat seriously.
02:27So let me welcome to the ring Rasa Jugnavićine and Merja Kulunin.
02:32Great to have you here, both of you. Good to see you.
02:35Now, the aim of the ring is to offer our viewers a glimpse at European Parliament debates.
02:41So you should feel right at home. Are you ready?
02:45Yes.
02:45Good. Now, I want to start with that incident that happened last week.
02:50The Russian drone attack, the drone that crashed into an apartment building in Romania.
02:58After that, EU leaders portrayed it not as an isolated incident,
03:03but as evidence that Russia's war against Ukraine is increasingly spilling across borders.
03:09Now, what conclusion should Europe draw now?
03:13Merja, I start with you.
03:15Definitely, condoms is not enough.
03:19We need to fix up our capability, security, secure our countries, our people,
03:25because scare, scariness is the biggest weapon which Russia is using.
03:32And scariness, when it's going ahead, it makes us weak.
03:38And I think the drones, all the security which we can do with drone,
03:47we have speak about the drone wall, but we need more sensors, the new technology,
03:53and definitely use money wisely over the military budget also,
04:00because there are other operators which are dealing with these cases.
04:04And, for example, I have learned it from my home country, Finland,
04:08that we haven't been able to activate the system in other parts than only the military side.
04:15And I think the civil societies are urgent in this case.
04:20Raza, you're from Lithuania, a country that, as we heard, is always, you know, at the crosshairs of Russia.
04:28So everybody believes.
04:29When you hear these news after Romania, after the incursions in the Baltic states, in Poland, what is your take?
04:36My take is the same as it was in the very beginning when this war started,
04:41and not only in 2022, but in 2014.
04:46We were warning all the time, Europe, NATO, other many countries, that it's serious.
04:54It's not only regional war somewhere.
04:56And today, I think we are in a better situation, as the European Union, as many NATO countries,
05:03because we have almost right diagnosis on the table.
05:07As medical doctor in the past, I have to say, and it's very important for politicians as well,
05:14first of all, to have the right diagnosis.
05:17Drones are only one piece of the whole picture, puzzle, which we have.
05:23So the picture, the whole picture is that Russia is a colonial, imperialistic state,
05:31and they will not stop just with Ukraine or only a piece of Ukraine.
05:38So this diagnosis is not yet on agenda, on the table in all the countries.
05:45So if we want to have a proper treatment against drones, I don't know, against everything,
05:52we have to understand that we have to help Ukraine to win this war
05:57and not to be afraid to defeat Putin.
06:00It was mentioned fair in video, in this short video.
06:04No, we don't feel fair, because we, like Ukrainians, we would like to convince others
06:10not to be afraid to defeat this evil of 21st century.
06:14They want to make us weak, make us fight together, make us not trust to each other.
06:22That's the political game.
06:24That's the colonial kind of game also, what they are using.
06:28So NATO condemned this attack, but stopped short of treating it as an armed attack
06:36that could trigger Article 5, the famous self-defence, collective defence clause.
06:43Was this the right thing to do?
06:45Sort of condemning it, but also signaling that this, we don't think this is a, you know,
06:54a casus belli.
06:55I'm a little bit worried that we are waiting the big bang to happen, because Russia is testing us.
07:03And when it will happen, that something bigger comes, either to Baltic countries, either to Finland or to Poland.
07:11I think we are the next targets.
07:13And the diplomacy and the condemn things, okay, it helps us a little bit.
07:21But actually, something which is much more than this is the power that we need to say it out loud,
07:33that we are not giving up.
07:35Now, the Russians are saying, and obviously that apartment building in Romania was sort of a random target.
07:42The Russians are saying that it's actually Ukraine's fault, because they're jamming the airwaves,
07:46and that makes drones difficult to operate.
07:50What do you make of this argument?
07:51Look, it is not the case to start to look drone Ukrainian, Russian, or something else.
07:58Russia is responsible for all drones in Ukraine, in our space.
08:08Or Putin is responsible that people of Russia now is suffering because of Ukrainian response.
08:14They are defending themselves.
08:15So here, coming back to your question about NATO response, what is lacking, I think, to understand that we are
08:27strong enough to be able to help Ukraine to win and not to be afraid.
08:34And Putin has to get a message that we are strong and we are ready.
08:39Now, still, now the situation is a little bit better.
08:42But remember, in the very beginning of this large-scale war, what messages were sent to Putin?
08:49Oh, please, for us, for everybody, we are afraid of the World War III.
08:54Don't attack Russian targets deep in Russia.
08:58We don't, we will not provide leopards.
09:02We will not provide with long-range missiles.
09:05What was the message to Putin?
09:07The message was, we are afraid.
09:09So today, we have to say in a very clear way, we have enough resources to do everything the best
09:18to defend ourselves, including the targets in Russia.
09:22Don't be afraid for that.
09:25Because if we are afraid of escalation, so Putin is opportunistic.
09:29Okay, so has our response been lukewarm so far?
09:34I think we, as Eastern borderline countries, have a different side of this picture than, for example, in the central
09:45part of Europe.
09:46And that worries me a lot, because this is also a media war, because the information we give to other
09:55countries, information we give to Russia, the Russian people, I still can go to Spain or France and see in
10:03the telly the Russian news.
10:06And it shocks me, because it means that we don't act like we are, all in war with Russia.
10:16Speaking about worry.
10:18So after this incident, Dmitry Medvedev, who you all know, the deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council, said this,
10:26and I quote,
10:27EU countries need to shut up on this matter.
10:30European states are direct participants in the war against Russia.
10:34This will continue to happen, and EU citizens will not be able to sleep peacefully.
10:40How worried should we be?
10:42So what?
10:43So what?
10:44We, of course, are at war helping Ukraine to win.
10:48Of course, we are at war because Russia is conducting already hybrid warfare in our member states.
10:55So we have to admit this, and not to be afraid what Medvedev is saying is vice versa.
11:02Look, you mentioned Russia today, or all those outlets in other European countries.
11:08Imagine if during the World War II, Hitler propaganda would be broadcasted in countries they are fighting against Hitler.
11:19So today we have this totalitarian regime with the very concrete name, Russian world.
11:26And this is exactly the same as it was maybe in the 21st century, Hitler and Stalin together.
11:34So we have to admit, all of us, if we are fighting, we have to fight.
11:39All right.
11:39Let me stop you here.
11:41As we're just getting warmed up, it's time now for Gloves Off.
11:51Now we want viewers to get a real flavor of the European Parliament Chamber, where members ask each other questions.
11:57That means we want our debaters to challenge each other directly, just as you do in the normal hemicycle.
12:03So let's get started, Rasa, let's start with you.
12:08My question is, what is your assessment of Donald Trump's nearly year-long efforts to negotiate deals with Putin?
12:17I hate the situation that he is dealing with over us.
12:25I got the feeling that we need stronger leadership in the EU.
12:31I have said that if the bigger ones can't do it, we as the smaller EU countries should do that.
12:38I'm not saying that diplomacy is the case, how we can solve all the problems, but we are partners with
12:47Ukraine.
12:49And in any case, in every way, we can support Ukraine in this situation.
12:54It's urgently needed to be done.
12:57And I wouldn't let these two guys destroy our future and decide over Europe and over Ukraine.
13:08I'm sure we come to this point later, but now your question to Rasa.
13:13You have said that EU cannot be a neutral mediator.
13:17I agree.
13:18Europe is not neutral between an aggressor and a victim.
13:22But if the US and Rasa talk about Europe's security architecture and Rasa drones are violating our airspace,
13:32who should speak for Europe with one clear mandate?
13:38Ukraine's sovereignty, the pressure on Rasa and protection of European citizens.
13:45Who could be?
13:46You know, I don't believe in Putin's engagement to talk, to start any negotiations.
13:55Today, we have quite a different situation as it was one year ago.
14:00And I think Putin, and he feels, I think at least his surroundings, they feel that they are losing.
14:08They are not winning this war.
14:09Maybe not losing, but they are not winning this war.
14:12And they are really in a very difficult situation.
14:16So that's why they are trying to escalate the situation.
14:19It's dangerous, of course.
14:22We have to take it seriously.
14:24But nevertheless, not to start negotiations about everything.
14:29About the future of Russia, about everything.
14:31We have to start to talk with him.
14:34First, the precondition is ceasefire.
14:37And then to start to talk about the peace, but not about, you know, everything.
14:43So today, what I am missing in those talks among European leaders to start or not to start negotiations,
14:51the content, the understanding.
14:53We just started our show, our conversation about the right diagnosis.
14:59So until we don't have this right diagnosis, what we would like to achieve, and that is the evil of
15:0521st century.
15:06So I can't imagine negotiations with Hitler in 1943 or 44.
15:14So for me, it's exactly the same lesson of history.
15:17We have to learn.
15:19Okay.
15:20So, well, we've heard the views from our guests so far.
15:23Now it's time to hear from a new voice.
15:30For our quote of the week, I would like to bring in Kaya Kalas, the EU's chief diplomat, at the
15:36latest EU summit in Cyprus.
15:37She said this.
15:39Russia wants us to discuss who talks to them.
15:43And they are already picking who is suitable for that.
15:46Let's not walk into that trap.
15:50Are we walking into a trap here?
15:52Your comment, Maria.
15:54Yes.
15:55Who is it?
15:56Make things like that, that he can choose who is the operator.
16:00So there are basically two schools of thought here.
16:05One says people are dying in this conflict.
16:08We need to put an end to this.
16:09That's why we need to find a negotiated solution.
16:13And the other position is it's Russia's war.
16:16Russia is not interested in negotiations.
16:18So we need to continue the fight until they withdraw or until they lost the war.
16:24Rasa, where do you come down on this?
16:26Look, it is not what we believe or not will happen.
16:30It already happened.
16:31One year of negotiations or attempts to make a deal with Putin from Washington DC failed.
16:38You mean with the American-led effort?
16:41Let's admit it.
16:42It failed.
16:43So is it something new?
16:45It is somehow.
16:47But also it cost a lot, Ukrainian lives.
16:52It cost a lot.
16:53And we were very close to legitimization of Putin's regime.
16:58if Putin would be clever enough to agree on those, I would say, to make the deal which was proposed.
17:09It didn't happen.
17:11I don't know what will happen in the future.
17:12But now we have to strengthen our own defense.
17:17We have to help Ukraine as much as possible today.
17:20This is the main precondition for the future, just peace in the future, the only precondition.
17:27Would you say that we need to wait until the solution is found on the battlefield, until Ukraine won the
17:37war?
17:37And then we can talk and not earlier.
17:39I think we need to definitely pressure Rasa much more hard weapons than we are using now.
17:48How can we do that?
17:49I mean the financial, the market, all the things we can do with the oil, with systems we have,
17:59the capability with EU have in others than only the military help to Ukraine.
18:05But I think we need also support more Ukraine.
18:11Militarily, you mean?
18:12Militarily, yeah.
18:13So all these top weapons that so far we haven't given them, we should give them.
18:18Yes.
18:19Everything they need.
18:20Everything they need.
18:21Look, I like this name, how they call strikes deep to Russia.
18:29They call it like long-range sanctions.
18:34It works.
18:36It works.
18:37Russia has to feel, they have to feel that they are at war.
18:43Russians as well, unfortunately.
18:44And I have very many friends from Russian opposition.
18:48I know how painful it is for all sides when war is going on.
18:53But nevertheless, no one war was one only defending yourself.
19:01As a former minister of defense, I have to say this.
19:04It's reality.
19:06It is like textbook of every war.
19:09So when we were afraid to damage something inside Russia, we were wrong.
19:17We could win this war already together with Ukrainians.
19:20Or maybe help more Ukraine to win this war.
19:24If end of 2022, beginning 23, when Ukrainians pushed back Russians from Kherson and Kharkov,
19:32that was a very good moment to provide Ukrainians with everything they needed.
19:37We were afraid to do this.
19:39We were afraid.
19:40All right.
19:41Let's keep defense spending for another conversation in a moment.
19:46And let's take a break now here on The Ring.
19:49We'll be back with more after this.
19:52Don't go away.
20:01Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
20:04I'm Stefan Grob and I'm joined by Rasa Jugnevićine from the European People's Party from Lithuania
20:10and Merja Kilonen from the Left Group from Finland.
20:14At this point, let's take a look at European defense spending since the start of the war in Ukraine.
20:21Euronews' defense spending went from more than 200 billion euros in 2021 to almost 350 billion in 2024.
20:29This represents an increase of 60, more than 60 percent.
20:34Defense spending reached almost 2 percent of EU GDP in 2024, up from 1.6 percent in 2023.
20:41Now, 25 of the 27 EU member states boosted defense spending in 2024.
20:49Now, your comments hearing these figures, Merja.
20:52I want more strategic thinking around EU, using our defense money smartly.
21:04What does that mean?
21:05That means that we need to have common projects where we build up the security about the air defense, air
21:18security,
21:20build up new resilient systems around EU,
21:25because the common peace of our citizens is also the key to be prepared,
21:34as our former president, Sauli Niinister, in his report, tried to teach us.
21:40And what worries me is that we don't have seen the whole picture.
21:45I think we are well prepared with Baltic country, with Poland, the eastern borderline.
21:52But how we can connect all the others to understand that we are...
21:55So is it really more money or is it spending the money that we have in a better way, a
22:01more efficient way?
22:02It's also more money.
22:04But the key issue is using it smartly, much more smartly and wisely than we have done before.
22:12And using it also the new technology, because what Ukrainians are saying to us,
22:19we are acting like everything is like in the old years.
22:26And things have changed.
22:27And we have to change our thinking too.
22:30Rasa, your point.
22:32Of course, increasing spending percentages are very important.
22:37And here, despite I have some criticism on Donald Trump,
22:43but on this I have to admit that his push to Europeans to spend more
22:50was a very positive message and a very positive thing he did.
22:54We in Lithuania now, our spendings for this year will be 5.38%.
23:01So this is because we understand and people understand our reality.
23:06But on the other hand, I would say, I will quote Andrius Kubilius, our commissioner for defense,
23:12not percentages fighting in the battlefield, you know.
23:17We have to have, I will not repeat what you did mention, all those common understanding.
23:23So that's why me and many other more than 50 now members of European Parliament, including you, Maria,
23:31we have created an informal group for defense, European Defense Union.
23:37And we would like to push especially member states to wake up.
23:42Yes, I feel that some member states, they still live in the past as it was before.
23:49You know, as it is very famous quote of politologist Clark,
23:57politicians think about next election, statesmen think about next generation.
24:03So now we have to be in one to think about next election.
24:07Of course, it's important, but to think more about next generation.
24:11I would say there are 50 like-minded members of Parliament with you on this,
24:16but the Parliament has 700 plus members.
24:20Where are the others here?
24:21Okay, okay.
24:22My question is, is this a point where large majorities agree, even in the public, Maria,
24:32the rearming of Europe?
24:34Well, I think we have just started because we realized that no, no, the big part of us
24:43share the same view, which, which is the situation in Europe or in white world.
24:48And I think always there has been a people who start the game.
24:56And I think 50 is more than good because we have different countries,
25:02different political background, different history, different political history.
25:06And we can find colleagues from our countries, from different kind of background,
25:13and build up a common understanding around this.
25:16I was surprised that we already have the 50 because there was, there was lots of people
25:23who were saying that, oh, we just look and check out things.
25:27I think we have made the wake-up call.
25:29Now we have to continue.
25:31All right.
25:32Well, now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round.
25:40And I want to do something different.
25:41I'm going to ask you a set of questions and you can only answer with yes or no.
25:48Should Ukraine agree to a ceasefire, even if Russia keeps some occupied territory?
25:57No, immediately.
25:59Oh, I think it's up to Ukrainians to decide.
26:03But I think yes.
26:04Yes.
26:04But not, you know, to recognize, not without recognitions.
26:10It's very important.
26:12Should European countries send more weapons to Ukraine?
26:15Yes.
26:16Of course, yes.
26:17Should Ukraine be allowed to strike targets deep inside Russia with Western weapons?
26:23Yes.
26:24Yes.
26:24Have cheap drones made traditional military hardware less relevant?
26:31No.
26:32Maybe not.
26:34Interesting.
26:35Should Ukraine join NATO before the war ends?
26:41No, I know that can't be possible.
26:45Yes.
26:45With one additional sentence, Ukraine today is acting as a member of NATO.
26:52They are defending NATO member states.
26:55Okay.
26:55I have one more.
26:56Will this war still be ongoing in one year's time?
27:01Hope not.
27:03I am afraid, yes, Will.
27:07All right.
27:07And that final answer brings us to the end of this edition of The Ring.
27:11Thanks again to Rasa Jugner-Vietchenne and Merja Kilone for a lively conversation here from the European Parliament.
27:19Thanks to our audience at home.
27:20If you like, you can continue the conversation by sending us your comments to thering at euronews.com.
27:27We'd love to have your feedback.
27:29That's it for today.
27:30I'm Stefan Grobe.
27:31Take care and see you soon on euronews.
27:44Euronews.
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